Racism and locked thread

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I put my comments in red above. Just a quick question back at you. Do you know what the Jim Crow laws were, and what effect do you think it has today?

Yes, I know what the Jim Crow laws were.

If I am your son, then you must be older than dirt. I doubt it, but it is possible.

I have read and studied much history -- the US is one place, but not the only.

Please don't tell me about 300 years -- that is a small portion of the world, but apparently your only view.

Since the world revolves around you, then please accept my apologies again. No one else has a history that you see, and you can only see a very small portion of it.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Yes, I know what the Jim Crow laws were.

If I am your son, then you must be older than dirt. I doubt it, but it is possible.

I have read and studied much history -- the US is one place, but not the only.

Please don't tell me about 300 years -- that is a small portion of the world, but apparently your only view.

Since the world revolves around you, then please accept my apologies again. No one else has a history that you see, and you can only see a very small portion of it.

Now, I get it. You love to play dumb as a hobby. I get it. Everything now is about the history of the world. I see now. My bad for talking about United States history since a ship full of Founding Fathers discovered America (I guess Native Americans dont count). Hey, you are right history does go back more than 300 years. So that makes your point right Dont worry about it, you dont get it. But thanks for pretending to want to learn more about it.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Now, I get it. You love to play dumb as a hobby. I get it. Everything now is about the history of the world. I see now. My bad for talking about United States history since a ship full of Founding Fathers discovered America (I guess Native Americans dont count). Hey, you are right history does go back more than 300 years. So that makes your point right Dont worry about it, you dont get it. But thanks for pretending to want to learn more about it.

I am interested in learning.

I have studied lots of history. I just have never thought that what happened to them should be my big worry today.

My point is that many people historically have been discriminated against --and I didn't do it. So the best thing to do now is make it as equal as possible - not to live in the past or future - but to effect what/who I can today.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am interested in learning.

I have studied lots of history. I just have never thought that what happened to them should be my big worry today.

My point is that many people historically have been discriminated against --and I didn't do it. So the best thing to do now is make it as equal as possible - not to live in the past or future - but to effect what/who I can today.

Living in the past, is when I give up on life and decide that I cant win in life because of the head start by others. Please once again, you dont understand racism, because you want ME and other black to forget about the past. You have to be out of your mind, if you think blacks are going to forget those first 300 years, which ended not long ago for blacks. Since, you claim that if I am old enough to call you son, then I must be old as dirt. If that is a fact, then it is pretty clear you are in your late fifties, which means you SHOULD be able to remember discrimination first hand right? And you are right, what happened back then you should NOT be worried about it. I agree on that 100%. But on the other hand, me and most other blacks will still worry about it because it is our history, which was NEVER taught in school. Since, it is not taught in school, then as we get a bit older, we ask questions, and we start to learn our past. Once we do, then we become interested in why things were like that and why nothing ever was done. It sticks in your mind, and you know you cant bring back those who were lynched, but you feel maybe you can make things a little better by bringing those still alive to justice.

Have you ever thought about that? Of course, you have not, you live in this little box of happiness. Well, guess what I dont live in the past, and will not blame anyone for what I do or not do, but I do feel obligated to try to make things right, so maybe it never happens again to ANYBODY.

[rmacomic]

Hmmmm.... Aftyer re-reading this thread, one thing is starting to occur to me.
The fact that Republicans keep bringing the race issue up, seems fishy.
Kinda like that guy who keeps making fun of gays, but is secretly practicing "the love that can't be named".

If it isn't an issue, why even bring it up.

I think Republicans are secretly in love with Obama.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Living in the past, is when I give up on life and decide that I cant win in life because of the head start by others. Please once again, you dont understand racism, because you want ME and other black to forget about the past. You have to be out of your mind, if you think blacks are going to forget those first 300 years, which ended not long ago for blacks.

I don't ask you to forget -- just to forgive.

Since, you claim that if I am old enough to call you son, then I must be old as dirt. If that is a fact, then it is pretty clear you are in your late fifties, which means you SHOULD be able to remember discrimination first hand right?

I am in my forties, but the same thing applies. My apologies on the older that dirt comment-- but I do tell my father he is older than dirt. And yes, I can remember discrimination my entire life -- just not as you see it. In fact, I see it basically on a daily basis -- just not always based on race.

And you are right, what happened back then you should NOT be worried about it. I agree on that 100%. But on the other hand, me and most other blacks will still worry about it because it is our history, which was NEVER taught in school. Since, it is not taught in school, then as we get a bit older, we ask questions, and we start to learn our past. Once we do, then we become interested in why things were like that and why nothing ever was done. It sticks in your mind, and you know you cant bring back those who were lynched, but you feel maybe you can make things a little better by bringing those still alive to justice.

I can understand where you are coming from. The Jews who were slaughtered, wanted justice and wanted all of the Germans who had anything to do with the killing of 6 million of them to see justice. Some did, some didn't. I am fairly sure in Bosnia, some are searching for that. I would like to think that in Darfur -- that we will eventually start getting justice for the people there. And yes, I understand that you want justice.

I am not asking for people to forget. I ask people to forgive, and not try to make people pay for a crime they as individuals didn't commit.

Making a better place comes from equality, not from any side getting a short stick, or a long one.

Have you ever thought about that? Of course, you have not, you live in this little box of happiness. Well, guess what I dont live in the past, and will not blame anyone for what I do or not do, but I do feel obligated to try to make things right, so maybe it never happens again to ANYBODY.

I don't live in a little box of happiness. I have an ex-brother-in-law that was a Navy Seal, and a POW in Vietnam. He tells me of autocracies that happened there. He told me of things that were done to him that were awful. He has a problem with Vietnamese people because of it.

I have a great uncle who had his back broken off the island of Atus in the Philippines during WWII. He has a problem with the Japanese who killed many of his friends. His Brother ended up in Germany during WWII and had to clear bodies from Dachau and Buchenwald. He had a problem with the Germans.

Today though Germany, Japan, and somewhat Vietnam are our allies. Do we still try to set things right with them? Or do we forgive -- not forget -- the past, and try to make a better future.

Do you think the families of all the people who were killed 9/11 should try and get justice from people of Arab descent......I mean they know the high jackers were from Arab descent, and they can't take it out on the ones that did it --- so should they try and get justice from all Arabs?

It ends up being a never ending loop of hatred.

You are correct 100% that I will never truly understand racism from a Black perspective. You will also never understand where I came from -- you can't -- you didn't live it. You will also never understand what the Jews, Indians, Hebrews, Darfur, etc. etc. etc have gone through. All you/I can do is try and understand to the best of our ability, and try to make this place a better place right now. It is the only thing you/I have control over.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I don't ask you to forget -- just to forgive.


I am in my forties, but the same thing applies. My apologies on the older that dirt comment-- but I do tell my father he is older than dirt. And yes, I can remember discrimination my entire life -- just not as you see it. In fact, I see it basically on a daily basis -- just not always based on race.


I can understand where you are coming from. The Jews who were slaughtered, wanted justice and wanted all of the Germans who had anything to do with the killing of 6 million of them to see justice. Some did, some didn't. I am fairly sure in Bosnia, some are searching for that. I would like to think that in Darfur -- that we will eventually start getting justice for the people there. And yes, I understand that you want justice.

I am not asking for people to forget. I ask people to forgive, and not try to make people pay for a crime they as individuals didn't commit.

Making a better place comes from equality, not from any side getting a short stick, or a long one.



I don't live in a little box of happiness. I have an ex-brother-in-law that was a Navy Seal, and a POW in Vietnam. He tells me of autocracies that happened there. He told me of things that were done to him that were awful. He has a problem with Vietnamese people because of it.

I have a great uncle who had his back broken off the island of Atus in the Philippines during WWII. He has a problem with the Japanese who killed many of his friends. His Brother ended up in Germany during WWII and had to clear bodies from Dachau and Buchenwald. He had a problem with the Germans.

Today though Germany, Japan, and somewhat Vietnam are our allies. Do we still try to set things right with them? Or do we forgive -- not forget -- the past, and try to make a better future.

Do you think the families of all the people who were killed 9/11 should try and get justice from people of Arab descent......I mean they know the high jackers were from Arab descent, and they can't take it out on the ones that did it --- so should they try and get justice from all Arabs?

It ends up being a never ending loop of hatred.

You are correct 100% that I will never truly understand racism from a Black perspective. You will also never understand where I came from -- you can't -- you didn't live it. You will also never understand what the Jews, Indians, Hebrews, Darfur, etc. etc. etc have gone through. All you/I can do is try and understand to the best of our ability, and try to make this place a better place right now. It is the only thing you/I have control over.

Let me enlighten you a bit on your last remarks. You want to compare the victims of war against lynching? That has got to be as low as you can get on this subject. In war there will ALWAYS be victims and losses. Both sides choose to go to war. It is a decision that is made with the intent of being content with the loss of life. That is why, war should ALWAYS be the last option on the table at all times. Lyching and what blacks went through in the United States was NOT war. It was genocide, which is the lowest of the low. I will say that gencide is far worse by all means than war.

Let me teach you a bit more on this subject. Blacks forgave whites long ago on this matter. It is called Faith. Trust me, those whites in the past have been forgiven, but they have NOT been forgotten. And for the most part there are many who are still alive, that have not been brought to justice. Very high up people as well. Just like if you even turn your television on or read the paper, the top subject is "Race and Politics". I wonder why it is a top subject now? Wanna guess? Also, when I see this topic, it is not on BET and TV1, it is on mainstream stations with non-black journalists reporting on this. So, dont think that I dont see it, because I do, as well as alot of others including whites see it too. And I applaud ALL of those who have made it a point to go out in the communities to educate those who STILL have a problem with blacks.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Let me enlighten you a bit on your last remarks. You want to compare the victims of war against lynching? That has got to be as low as you can get on this subject. In war there will ALWAYS be victims and losses. Both sides choose to go to war. It is a decision that is made with the intent of being content with the loss of life. That is why, war should ALWAYS be the last option on the table at all times. Lyching and what blacks went through in the United States was NOT war. It was genocide, which is the lowest of the low. I will say that gencide is far worse by all means than war.

The Jews went into war? They were rounded up and exterminated. True genocide.

I compare lynchings to undeserved death from the situation that was around.

Do you know what happened in Bosnia and Croatia with Milosovic? What happened to the women and children -- the genocide?

Research Darfur right quick, see how much war is happening compared to the genocide that is happening there within the last 10 years.

Not to mention the Jews -- who weren't in a war, but were rounded up out of varying countries and sent to Germany.

How many Blacks in this country were lynched? Honestly I have no idea. Are we talking hundreds of thousands though? Millions?

Let me teach you a bit more on this subject. Blacks forgave whites long ago on this matter. It is called Faith. Trust me, those whites in the past have been forgiven, but they have NOT been forgotten. And for the most part there are many who are still alive, that have not been brought to justice. Very high up people as well. Just like if you even turn your television on or read the paper, the top subject is "Race and Politics". I wonder why it is a top subject now? Wanna guess? Also, when I see this topic, it is not on BET and TV1, it is on mainstream stations with non-black journalists reporting on this. So, dont think that I dont see it, because I do, as well as alot of others including whites see it too. And I applaud ALL of those who have made it a point to go out in the communities to educate those who STILL have a problem with blacks.

No argument from me here.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

The Jews went into war? They were rounded up and exterminated. True genocide.

I compare lynchings to undeserved death from the situation that was around.

Do you know what happened in Bosnia and Croatia with Milosovic? What happened to the women and children -- the genocide?

Research Darfur right quick, see how much war is happening compared to the genocide that is happening there within the last 10 years.

Not to mention the Jews -- who weren't in a war, but were rounded up out of varying countries and sent to Germany.

How many Blacks in this country were lynched? Honestly I have no idea. Are we talking hundreds of thousands though? Millions?





No argument from me here.

There you go twisting words to try to cover up your error in comparing war to genecide. Like I said b4 "GENECIDE" is not to be compared to war. PERIOD!!!! That is why I am telling you to NOT compare WAR to GENECIDE. PERIOD!! Now, do you understand that? I can tell you a whole book worth about genocide ALL over the world, so dont go there like you are telling me something. What you need to understand is WAR is not to be compared to GENECIDE. If you do, then you are saying the United States military commits GENOCIDE. So be careful, because our military goes to WAR, which is much different than GENOCIDE.

Lastly, I can relate to Jews, Darfur, and what happened in Bosnia and Croatia with Milosovic. I "CAN" relate. We share something in common. Now, do you get it? Or do you want to spin something else around. You need to understand that lynching and killing blacks back then WAS genecide. PERIOD!!! Nothing else, but that. So, when you try to explain or relate it to war, I am extremely offended.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

There you go twisting words to try to cover up your error in comparing war to genecide. Like I said b4 "GENECIDE" is not to be compared to war. PERIOD!!!! That is why I am telling you to NOT compare WAR to GENECIDE. PERIOD!! Now, do you understand that? I can tell you a whole book worth about genocide ALL over the world, so dont go there like you are telling me something. What you need to understand is WAR is not to be compared to GENECIDE. If you do, then you are saying the United States military commits GENOCIDE. So be careful, because our military goes to WAR, which is must different than GENOCIDE.

Lastly, I can relate to Jews, Darfur, and what happened in Bosnia and Croatia with Milosovic. I "CAN" relate. We share something in common. Now, do you get it? Or do you want to spin something else around. You need to understand that lynching and killing blacks back then WAS genecide. PERIOD!!! Nothing else, but that. So, when you try to explain or relate it to war, I am extremely offended.

I think I better just bow out of the conversation here. We will just agree to have two different opinions.

[DirkFTW]

For the record, I consider Planned Parenthood the softer side of genocide. Talk of a history of exterminating minorities as if that is only in the past is just unaware of the present threat.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

For the record, I consider Planned Parenthood the softer side of genocide. Talk of a history of exterminating minorities as if that is only in the past is just unaware of the present threat.

Dont stop there why dont you add the other thing that most republicans love. Most republicans are for capital punishment. So add that to your so called Softer side of genecide. Now, let me say this. I would never call ANY side of genecide SOFT. IMO.

[DirkFTW]

Yea, I was saying that with tongue in cheek because most people would be repulsed by an organization primarily targeting minorities for abortions... but somehow that's not the case.

Also, I think your critique should be more of the justice system, not capital punishment. Death does not discriminate. The people who administer it can.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Yea, I was saying that with tongue in cheek because most people would be repulsed by an organization primarily targeting minorities for abortions... but somehow that's not the case.

Also, I think your critique should be more of the justice system, not capital punishment. Death does not discriminate. The people who administer it can.

No, point is that if you are against Abortion, you HAVE to be against Capital punishment. It just does not fit. There is no logical reasoning behind it, because the reason behind being against abortion, is the fact that you feel you are taking a life. Right?

[92bDad]

Pro-Life of a child at conception is simply that, protecting the choice to live for a child who otherwise has NO CHOICE. I am pro-choice for the Child.

I am also Pro-Capitol Punishment. A person who has been found guilty of a crime to the point that they have been sentenced to die, made the choice to die when they committed the crime they were convicted of. Thus again, I am pro-choice...the criminal chose to commit the crime and suffer the consequences.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

No, point is that if you are against Abortion, you HAVE to be against Capital punishment. It just does not fit. There is no logical reasoning behind it, because the reason behind being against abortion, is the fact that you feel you are taking a life. Right?

Interesting that you bring this up. So are you against Capital punishment?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Pro-Life of a child at conception is simply that, protecting the choice to live for a child who otherwise has NO CHOICE. I am pro-choice for the Child.

I am also Pro-Capitol Punishment. A person who has been found guilty of a crime to the point that they have been sentenced to die, made the choice to die when they committed the crime they were convicted of. Thus again, I am pro-choice...the criminal chose to commit the crime and suffer the consequences.

That is exactly why I say you cant pick and choose your fight on life and be extremely upset at someone else for making a different choice on that. The big arguement in the past on Obama is because he is Pro-abortion, so the case against him is that you are taking a life with abortion. Also the claim is that life starts at conception right? So, are these arguements biblical or based on how you feel? You cant have it both ways. If you believe conception is life, and you are not suppose to take a life, then surly you can agree that a person alive who is facing capital punishment is very much alive right? Yes! So, what is the reasoning again?

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

No, point is that if you are against Abortion, you HAVE to be against Capital punishment. It just does not fit. There is no logical reasoning behind it, because the reason behind being against abortion, is the fact that you feel you are taking a life. Right?

1. You assume that I am for capital punishment, but I am not.
2. You assume that those who are executed are innocent. I hope and pray that they are not.
3. What capital crime has an unborn child committed?
4. You cannot justify the killing of babies by pointing to the killing of criminals. This is not some sort of 1-for-1 exchange rate.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

That is exactly why I say you cant pick and choose your fight on life and be extremely upset at someone else for making a different choice on that. The big arguement in the past on Obama is because he is Pro-abortion, so the case against him is that you are taking a life with abortion. Also the claim is that life starts at conception right? So, are these arguements biblical or based on how you feel? You cant have it both ways. If you believe conception is life, and you are not suppose to take a life, then surly you can agree that a person alive who is facing capital punishment is very much alive right? Yes! So, what is the reasoning again?

I am not going to get into another debate, but I would like to pose an observation.

Reason #1 for Capital Punishment: To provide justice for a choice that was made by the offender. The offender chose to take a life, or his life wouldn't be in jeopardy.

Reason #1 to be Against Abortion: The life (child) is not given a choice or the ability to make a choice. The child was given NO choice about life or the taking of one.

So yes, they are two differing things that can be debated logically and biblically.

Yes, I can debate it biblical as well, but that gets into interpretations -- so I won't.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am not going to get into another debate, but I would like to pose an observation.

Reason #1 for Capital Punishment: To provide justice for a choice that was made by the offender. The offender chose to take a life, or his life wouldn't be in jeopardy.

Reason #1 to be Against Abortion: The life (child) is not given a choice or the ability to make a choice. The child was given NO choice about life or the taking of one.

So yes, they are two differing things that can be debated logically and biblically.

Yes, I can debate it biblical as well, but that gets into interpretations -- so I won't.

No, you CANT debate it biblical, because I will show you where capital punishment is not correct as well. I will even go so far as to say that the bible says there is only 1 unforgiveable sin, and that is killing yourself. You cant win this debate that you just included yourself against me There is no way to win that debate, and the closest way would be to say that you are against abortion and capital punishment, but clearly I just proved that like I said, for the most part Republicans are against abortion but for capital punishment. The reason being behind capital punishment is because of man-made (Full of sin) laws. Which again, you cant have it both ways. Unless you are picking and choosing where you want to use the bible for your own selfish ways or acts. No way around it. I cant win as well, because I am Pro-Abortion (Up to what I believe in) and Against Capital punishment. But, I will not make anyone else out to be the scum of the earth because they feel different on this issue. Simple as that.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Pro-Life of a child at conception is simply that, protecting the choice to live for a child who otherwise has NO CHOICE. I am pro-choice for the Child.

I am also Pro-Capitol Punishment. A person who has been found guilty of a crime to the point that they have been sentenced to die, made the choice to die when they committed the crime they were convicted of. Thus again, I am pro-choice...the criminal chose to commit the crime and suffer the consequences.

Who are "YOU" or "WE" to "JUDGE" whose life is taken away for capitol punishment? Notice the word "JUDGE" in that. That is not talking about the one behind a bench.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

No, you CANT debate it biblical, because I will show you where capital punishment is not correct as well. I will even go so far as to say that the bible says there is only 1 unforgiveable sin, and that is killing yourself. You cant win this debate that you just included yourself against me There is no way to win that debate, and the closest way would be to say that you are against abortion and capital punishment, but clearly I just proved that like I said, for the most part Republicans are against abortion but for capital punishment. The reason being behind capital punishment is because of man-made (Full of sin) laws. Which again, you cant have it both ways. Unless you are picking and choosing where you want to use the bible for your own selfish ways or acts. No way around it. I cant win as well, because I am Pro-Abortion (Up to what I believe in) and Against Capital punishment. But, I will not make anyone else out to be the scum of the earth because they feel different on this issue. Simple as that.

Please enlighten me.......oh all-knower of the Bible.

Show me the verse that says that the only unforgivable sin is killing yourself. Please Book, chapter and verse.

Then show me where you get that capital punishment is against the book . Please just Book, chapter, and verses.

Please then explain Saul and Samuel. Also explain Elijah and the Prophets of Baal. Then also explain Joshua's role.

I am up for some learning from you -- please produce. I study this daily -- and I am always interested in another interpretation.

[DirkFTW]

And now, a Simpsons reference to break the tension:

Reverend Timothy Lovejoy: [Reading from his Bible] And the Lord spoke, saying, Whack ye all the snaked that slither upon the ground, and thy town shall be a beacon unto others. So you see, Lisa, even God endorses Whacking Day.
Lisa: Let me see that.
Reverend Timothy Lovejoy: [Putting his Bible away] No.

[rabbitproof]

I don't read the Bible anymore but “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1).

It's kind of general and I'm sure someone will say I'm misinterpreting it but taken very literally, I think it means we shouldn't condemn others for their actions.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Please enlighten me.......oh all-knower of the Bible.

Show me the verse that says that the only unforgivable sin is killing yourself. Please Book, chapter and verse.

Then show me where you get that capital punishment is against the book . Please just Book, chapter, and verses.

Please then explain Saul and Samuel. Also explain Elijah and the Prophets of Baal. Then also explain Joshua's role.

I am up for some learning from you -- please produce. I study this daily -- and I am always interested in another interpretation.

Mr. Daily reader if you dont know the answers to that, then you study the wrong book. I should not have to explain that if you kill yourself you cant repent, which means you cant be forgiven, because when you kill yourself you are killing new testament body of the church. You do understand that right?

Do you understand what war is? I guess not, read the bible a bit more, and you will see how the righteous really went to war rejoicing with words and dance, and how the enemy was defeated. Dont worry, because you will say if there is a war in the bible it makes it right. Let me leave you with this, Mr.Daily reader, take out your bible and read the book of Hebrews. Take a look at Chapter 10 verse 30. Just for a little minute. Thats all.

I will tell you why "I" am against Capital Punishment. Our justice system is extremely flawed, and I do feel there have been many innocent people put to death, and I do believe there are many innocent people in prison falsely accused according to what GOD said about having 2 or 3 witnesses (Hebrews 10 verse 28) to condemn. I truly believe that the only way to half way fix that problem is to not allow capital punishment. As I look around more and more people are getting out of prison due to false judgement, and as you know a large portion just so happens to be black. Which again goes back to the past. That is another reason it is so hard to 4get the past, is because there are still so many have are in prison unjustly.

But I say this, I am far from perfect and dont claim to be, but I do know a little bit about the bible. Yet, I still sin, but I do know a little bit. IMO. Enjoy the book of Hebrews tonight. While you there stop on over to Matthews 5:9 while you are around there. You may find the answer to that question you asked me..Take care..

[92bDad]

Let me understand something...the greatest commandment is to Love God with all your might and to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

So please tell me, where does abortion fit into this equation? Is the child the neighbor or the mother?

So please tell me, where does capitol punishment fit into this equation? Is the Criminal the neighbor or the victim the neighbor?

How do you show Love, the same love you would give yourself and the Lord to the baby, the mother, the criminal and the victim? Now how do you show that love to society?

[dalmations202]

Let me start by saying that isn't it funny how Religion and Politics are married.

And if the oldest profession in the world is whoredom, then the second oldest is politics, and they both look remarkably alike.

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Mr. Daily reader if you dont know the answers to that, then you study the wrong book. I should not have to explain that if you kill yourself you cant repent, which means you cant be forgiven, because when you kill yourself you are killing new testament body of the church. You do understand that right?

I knew the answers long before I asked you. I am impressed that you even came back with any answer. Of course you really didn't give book, chapter, verse --- because it does not say that anywhere in the bible. You have to interpret something else to get that. You have interpreted the repent statement. I applaud because you have at least seen and heard some of the bible and have at least made up your mind about some of the interpretations.

Do you agree that there is only one Unforgivable sin? You stated in a previous post that the only unforgivable sin was to kill oneself. Question: Is Blasphemy a forgivable sin then? Is the absolute denial of God after you know who/what he is and choice of self over him -- forgivable?

Remember, you only have one unforgivable sin -- it has to be either Blasphemy and the choosing of oneself over God, or it has to be death without repentance at that moment.

Do you believe in "once saved, always saved"? If you are forgiven for your sins past and future when you accept Christ -- then are you then not saved if you commit suicide?
I ask this because I have seen it happen recently where a person, I know to have asked the Lord into their heart -- seen them change -- then know they committed suicide (while leaving their bible open in front of them, and a note saying they were going home to heaven.) If there name was put into the book of life when they ask Christ into their heart, then has it been erased now?

If you don't believe in the once saved, always saved....ie Christ died for all our sins one time (not that he goes back to the cross each time we sin), then I'll still ask you to explain logically how death bed conversions can happen and why we try to convert people at the last minute then? I mean even if they convert, they don't have time to repent -- isn't that what you said. Only that doesn't work either, because when Jesus was hanging on the cross, a thief called on the name of Jesus, and Jesus told him that he would be in paradise with him. Now that thief didn't come off that cross and repent to the people he wronged would be a little hard -- when he died hours/minutes later. Please explain this one. You see logically that leaves little choice, but for the unforgivable sin to not be death without repentance at that time.

If the unforgivable sin is not suicide -- then your first interpretation is not correct. Now, for what it is worth -- I was first taught this exact thing in church growing up. My view changed as I studied the word. Is suicide a sin, absolutely. Is it an unforgivable sin -- I don't think that is the case -- but I don't know for sure.

I do know that there is no verse in the bible that plainly states this to be the case.

Do you understand what war is?

Have you personally been there? Have you seen a firefight? Have you been involved and put your life on the line for other people. I know what happened in Panama in 89 -- I was there . My orders were cut to Desert Storm, but rescinded when it didn't last that long.

You ask if I know what war is.........YES....... I have seen it first hand. I have been there and done that.

My question is DO YOU KNOW what it is? Have you seen death up close and personal?

I guess not, read the bible a bit more, and you will see how the righteous really went to war rejoicing with words and dance, and how the enemy was defeated. Dont worry, because you will say if there is a war in the bible it makes it right. Let me leave you with this, Mr.Daily reader, take out your bible and read the book of Hebrews. Take a look at Chapter 10 verse 30. Just for a little minute. Thats all.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

I absolutely agree. Vengeance belongs to the Lord.

Should we have gone into Afghanistan then and liberated the people and removed the Al-Queda and Taliban?

Should we ever go into any other country for any reason?

God sent Joshua out. God sent David out. Did God tell each of David's mighty men to go do these things, or did they follow the leadership that God set up in David? Did people follow Moses - who God sent - or were they following themselves?

I am curious if you understand. Does God setup the leaders, and government?

Man will try to do it man's way -- and eventually God will give them over to their own desires.

I will tell you why "I" am against Capital Punishment. Our justice system is extremely flawed, and I do feel there have been many innocent people put to death, and I do believe there are many innocent people in prison falsely accused according to what GOD said about having 2 or 3 witnesses (Hebrews 10 verse 28) to condemn. I truly believe that the only way to half way fix that problem is to not allow capital punishment. As I look around more and more people are getting out of prison due to false judgement, and as you know a large portion just so happens to be black. Which again goes back to the past. That is another reason it is so hard to 4get the past, is because there are still so many have are in prison unjustly.

I am not going to argue flaws, because I think America has the best system in the world and yet you are correct. It is still flawed.

I have no problem with your feeling about Capital Punishment -- not that it makes you right or wrong about it. It is your opinion and I respect that, even when I don't agree with it.

God loves man. God is Love (1Jn 4:8 and 4:16). God does not respect man though.
Rom 2:11 for there is no respect of persons with God.

So putting our own definitions of what is fair and not fair, right and wrong, good and bad is just man being man.

David ( a man after God own heart) killed many, including Goliath.
Saul was chastised by Samual for not killing everyone and everything like God had told him.
Joshua killed everyone and everything in many of his battles.
Elijah slew hundreds in the valley of Kinshon.
Elisha called down a Bear that killed children -- because they scoffed at him and his bald head.

Be very careful in your Wrong and Right thoughts because it isn't about man.

But I say this, I am far from perfect and dont claim to be, but I do know a little bit about the bible. Yet, I still sin, but I do know a little bit. IMO. Enjoy the book of Hebrews tonight. While you there stop on over to Matthews 5:9 while you are around there. You may find the answer to that question you asked me..Take care..

Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.

I myself am far from perfect. Of course I am a sinner as well. The book of Hebrews was wonderful, so was Chapter 5 of Matthew. I always enjoy reading the Word.

With that said, please take all I have written above, and study it. Don't take my word for it, actually pull out the word, and read it. Pray on it. Ask others, but take what they say and test it with the Lord as well. You are going to be judged for what you knew and did.

This world will be a better place, when we all start following Him and forget about ourselves and our own selfish desires.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Let me understand something...the greatest commandment is to Love God with all your might and to love your neighbor as you love yourself.

So please tell me, where does abortion fit into this equation? Is the child the neighbor or the mother?

So please tell me, where does capitol punishment fit into this equation? Is the Criminal the neighbor or the victim the neighbor?

How do you show Love, the same love you would give yourself and the Lord to the baby, the mother, the criminal and the victim? Now how do you show that love to society?

I'll give you my understanding -- not that it is worth much, but at least it will give you a place to start studying and getting the "right" answers.

God is Love -- (1Jn 4:8)
the opposite of Love is not Hate -- the opposite of Love is selfishness.
(this one is much harder to explain logically)
Amos 5:20-26 Jehovah (God) explains that he hates what they have done, and despises their solemn feasts, etc.
He also claims to hate a prideful look.

God won't sin. So hate is not the opposite of God. (It is a fierce emotion of Love).

Selfishness is opposite of God/Love. God sent his son Jesus to die - totally selfless. Jesus gave his life for man - totally selfless. Parents would give their lives for their children -- selfless acts. The act of Love is putting others above oneself.

Now, as to what you wrote 92bdad.
Abortion is selfish. You kill because you don't want to change your own lifestyle. You call it choice, but it is a life that is killed for your own benefit, not the benefit of others.

Suicide is selfish. You take your own life because you don't want to deal anymore. You call it choice, but it is a life that is killed for your own benefit, not the benefit of others.

Capital Punishment may be vengeance or may not be vengeance. Someone kills someone else -- hopefully to keep the guilty party from killing others. So you aren't doing it for selfish reasons, but for someone else.

We could also talk free will and choices and explain that one person is dying for choices they made, and the other is dying because of choices someone else made.

That should give you a place to start though -- although I could debate either side of the argument --- everyone needs to study and make up their own minds -- but know why they made the decision.

Most have no clue why they think the way they do. They think that way because that is the way they were taught by other men.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Question: Is Blasphemy a forgivable sin then? Is the absolute denial of God after you know who/what he is and choice of self over him -- forgivable

You seem to have a peculiar definition of forgiving.

In this discussion the forgiveness sought and discussed is God's alone. Are you saying that if someone who had turned their back on God asked for forgiveness, it would not be offered?

Why not?


this is a serious question. I would state that THIS (the absolute ability and willingness of God to forgive) is THE central tenet of christianity (for catholics at least)

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

You seem to have a peculiar definition of forgiving.

In this discussion the forgiveness sought and discussed is God's alone. Are you saying that if someone who had turned their back on God asked for forgiveness, it would not be offered?

Why not?


this is a serious question. I would state that THIS (the absolute ability and willingness of God to forgive) is THE central tenet of christianity (for catholics at least)

No, I am not saying that if someone asked to be forgiven -- they won't be forgiven.

I called Blasphemy the time that you have to make a decision. All men will make a decision. If they take themselves over God -- then that cannot be forgiven.

Satan did this. He refused God and God's ways and said "I can be God". He chose self. He took a third of the angels with him. They chose self over God. Satan refused to bow to man who was set " a little below the angels". He chose self over God's creation.

What was the lie that Satan told Eve -- "that she could be like God".

Blasphemy is the denying of God and choosing of self at the time that you have to make that choice.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

You seem to have a peculiar definition of forgiving.

In this discussion the forgiveness sought and discussed is God's alone. Are you saying that if someone who had turned their back on God asked for forgiveness, it would not be offered?

Why not?


this is a serious question. I would state that THIS (the absolute ability and willingness of God to forgive) is THE central tenet of christianity (for catholics at least)

I agree 100%, that is why I showed him that what he was taught as a child still holds true. I have always been taught and learned that the only unforgiveable sin is to kill yourself. When you kill yourself, you have sinned against GOD and the new church, and you CANT repent. Just like you have stated, and I agree. There have been many Christians who have turned their back on Christ with their words and actions. But, as soon as they commit to Christ, and baptized they are accepted. Reference: 2 Corinthians 5:17

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

No, I am not saying that if someone asked to be forgiven -- they won't be forgiven.

I called Blasphemy the time that you have to make a decision. All men will make a decision. If they take themselves over God -- then that cannot be forgiven.

Satan did this. He refused God and God's ways and said "I can be God". He chose self. He took a third of the angels with him. They chose self over God. Satan refused to bow to man who was set " a little below the angels". He chose self over God's creation.

What was the lie that Satan told Eve -- "that she could be like God".

Blasphemy is the denying of God and choosing of self at the time that you have to make that choice.

You are missing the point, you MUST understand that only means if you continue that path and never return back to Christ. Then, yes, that is unforgivable when you die. BUT, my whole point is there is only one true unforgiveable sin, and that is killing yourself, and you cant repent. The example you gave of that person killing themselves, is an example that this person believed example what I said, but thought he had found a way around it with leaving the bible open with a message.

[Dirkadirkastan]

So if you jump off a cliff and have regrets halfway down, is it pointless to quickly ask forgiveness?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

No, I am not saying that if someone asked to be forgiven -- they won't be forgiven.

I called Blasphemy the time that you have to make a decision. All men will make a decision. If they take themselves over God -- then that cannot be forgiven.

Satan did this. He refused God and God's ways and said "I can be God". He chose self. He took a third of the angels with him. They chose self over God. Satan refused to bow to man who was set " a little below the angels". He chose self over God's creation.

What was the lie that Satan told Eve -- "that she could be like God".

Blasphemy is the denying of God and choosing of self at the time that you have to make that choice.

I want you to think long and hard about this statement:

The Bible views suicide as equal to murder – that’s what it is – self-murder. God is the One who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God. This holds true when you take anothers life, and if you dont repent, you have commited blasphemy to God. BUT, you still have time to be forgiven. When you commit suicide, you commit blasphemy, and even in your statement that blasphemy is "Unforgivable", now tell me how a dead person is going to repent to get back in God's grace? They can't!!! Now, that is my belief. Ref: John 3:3

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Looks like a few peopel are overlay sensitive.

What is racist about believing that a candidate is over hyped and not worthy of being president?

That's correct, I don't believe Obama has shared a single thing that would make him a good President. So now, I'm a racist???

Look there are quite a few others who happen to think the same thing...are they racist?

http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/

There are other more qualified candidates available...but Obama is nothing but an empty suit. I am curious to find out who is his puppet master?

Heck Martin Luther King was a registered Republican...does that make him a racist?

Saddly, we are seeing several people voting for or against the man, simply on the issue of his skin color. All of you voting FOR or Against because the man is half/black are nothing more than racist.

If you are voting for/against due to his or McCain politics and abilities to lead as President of this great nation, then I commend you.

Those of you who believe that a comment from myself or Limbaugh is racist, don't have a clue what racism is.

So get off your high-horse, stick to the issues and keep the threads moving.

Most of all, get some moderators with some balls and quit wimping out and locking threads up...that is the first sign that a board is doomed to failure, when moderators start locking threads.

Kind of reminds me of the old Dallas Morning News boards...do they even still exist?

Most blacks were republicans until the republican party stopped paying attention to blacks and just started using them for their votes. If Martin Luther King was still alive today i'd like to believe he'd favor the views of democrats since people who were aligned with him in the 60's are currently democrats today. And Nationalblackrepublicans.com is a website dedicated to Uncle Toms. I would never use that site to make any point regarding politics.

Fact is, I rarely hear about Democrats using the race card yet I always hear Republicans speak on race. More than Obama or any democrat has. And you have Palin who uses the "women" card almost to the point she's relying on it.

And if threads contain BS I believe mods should lock them up. The moderators on this site do a damn good job.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I want you to think long and hard about this statement:

The Bible views suicide as equal to murder – that’s what it is – self-murder. God is the One who is to decide when and how a person should die. To take that power into your own hands, according to the Bible, is blasphemy to God. This holds true when you take anothers life, and if you dont repent, you have commited blasphemy to God. BUT, you still have time to be forgiven. When you commit suicide, you commit blasphemy, and even in your statement that blasphemy is "Unforgivable", now tell me how a dead person is going to repent to get back in God's grace? They can't!!! Now, that is my belief. Ref: John 3:3

Your definitions and mine are obviously different on blasphemy.

And just because you were taught it in a church, doesn't make it true.

If everything taught in church were true, we wouldn't have various numbers of differing religions.

I do understand what you are saying though -- but it still didn't make it right or wrong -- just believed by you. This is why I say everyone needs to read and study and pray for themselves because shephards will lead their flocks astray. IMO, Jesus is the only intermediary that we need.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Your definitions and mine are obviously different on blasphemy.

And just because you were taught it in a church, doesn't make it true.

If everything taught in church were true, we wouldn't have various numbers of differing religions.

I do understand what you are saying though -- but it still didn't make it right or wrong -- just believed by you. This is why I say everyone needs to read and study and pray for themselves because shephards will lead their flocks astray. IMO, Jesus is the only intermediary that we need.

No, you are incorrect. Our definitions on "Blasphemy" are the same. The only difference is that you dont believe killing yourself is "Blasphemy" to GOD. Well, I do. Then I backed it up with verses.

Please dont believe that my beliefs stem only from my church. I read the bible and I pray b4 I read the bible to ask for understanding. I think Christians should also find time to learn the bible in Latin terms as well. You would be amazed at some of the real translations.

Give you a little example. What is a "Virgin" in the bible that people associate with?

[Dtownsfinest]

Upstate New York county lists Obama as 'Osama' on absentee ballot


Barack Obama can't be happy about
the "Osama" slip-up.

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Friday, October 10th 2008, 4:21 PM
TROY, NY- Wait, who is running for president? In an upstate New York county, hundreds of voters have been sent absentee ballots in which they could vote for "Barack Osama."

The absentee ballots sent to voters in Rensselaer County identified the two presidential candidates as "Barack Osama" and "John McCain." In the United States, the best-known person named Osama is Osama bin Laden, leader of the al-Qaida terrorist group behind the 2001 attacks that destroyed the World Trade Center in New York City.

RELATED: YOU'RE LYING! SAYS MCCAIN. YOU'RE DIVIDING! SAYS OBAMA. COULD ELECTION COME DOWN TO THIS?

The typographical terror error was first reported by the Times Union of Albany.

The elections office faxed out a statement in which the two commissioners, Democrat Edward McDonough and Republican Larry Bugbee, said they regret the error but never acknowledge what the error was.

RELATED: IT'S OBAMA TV

"It's human error, it's very unfortunate, it's an embarrassment to our office, obviously," McDonough said in a later phone interview. "We wish we could turn back the clock, but we can't."

When they discovered the mistake, officials shredded the remaining "Osama" ballots and mailed correct versions to the roughly 300 people who had already received them. McDonough said the "Osama" mistake was made in only one of the 13 different ballot versions mailed throughout the county, which lies to the east of the state capitol of Albany.

Voters who received both versions will be allowed to send in either one and have it counted, McDonough said.

Obama spokesman Blake Zeff said the campaign is "glad officials are working to correct this error and we assume it won't happen again."

The similarity between the last name of the presidential candidate and the first name of the world's most wanted terrorist have caused mix-ups before, at campaign appearances and in news broadcasts.

Some of the voters most fiercely opposed to seeing Obama become president refer to him dismissively as "Osama."

Sad.......I guess we've come along way but not long enough I suppose.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Sad.......I guess we've come along way but not long enough I suppose.

Sad or Expected?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

If everything taught in church were true, we wouldn't have various numbers of differing religions.

I'm interested in hearing you expound on this. May I assume safely that you believe everything taught in *your* religion is true?