PGT | 01-30-11 | Hawks @ Mavs = WIN!

[LetsGoMavs]

Apparently nobody else seemed to want to make a thread...so i thought: "Why not give it a go"




PS:
Gotta give Haywood props for this game - hustle, defense and even his freethrow shooting was there tonite!

[xrobx]

big win, the hawks are a really tough team. dirk's shot looked better than ever. i'm still optimistic about the future

[jthig32]

So three games, ago, we played the Nets. Five minutes into his stint in the first half, Haywood took a ridiculous fadeaway jump shot. RC immediately sent in Ian, and Haywood didn't sniff the court the rest of the night, even though the Mavs were desperate for Haywood's size to help with Lopez, who was destroying them.

This was a very loud and clear message being sent.

Since that time, Haywood has turned in his two best performances of the season. There was the Houston game sandwiched in between where he barely played, but that was matchups related.

Haywood was really, really good tonight, and played with the kind of emotion that we haven't seen at all from him this season. I really, really hope this continues.

[AO41]

Great balance over the last few games...the team is starting to play well again and if Haywood can play like tonight we might be able to get through withhold Butler for a while.

** I want to give credit to JET as well....I love when he has a bad noight people throw him under the bus soo fast, but very few of those people come out and say something good when he has games like this or when he does his part.


And the funny thing is that the worst of the Jet haters always point out that he shouldn't be the 2nd or even 3rd option on a team because he has some bad stretches...but when he plays most of the times like a 2nd option and sometimes like the 1st very few give him credit


Anyway I feel bettr now lol...... GOOO MAVS...GREAT JOB

[LonghornDub]

I definitely think Haywood gives a bad effort sometimes, but it's only sometimes. I don't think his effort or emotion was any different tonight than the majority of his games. He just played better. And he hit some FT's.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So three games, ago, we played the Nets. Five minutes into his stint in the first half, Haywood took a ridiculous fadeaway jump shot. RC immediately sent in Ian, and Haywood didn't sniff the court the rest of the night, even though the Mavs were desperate for Haywood's size to help with Lopez, who was destroying them.

This was a very loud and clear message being sent.

Since that time, Haywood has turned in his two best performances of the season. There was the Houston game sandwiched in between where he barely played, but that was matchups related.

Haywood was really, really good tonight, and played with the kind of emotion that we haven't seen at all from him this season. I really, really hope this continues.

You aren't kidding. As disappointing as he's been most of the season, if he keeps playing like he has been recently - which is to say like he's unquestionably capable of playing - he's a flat-out game-changer on the defensive end.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I definitely think Haywood gives a bad effort sometimes, but it's only sometimes. I don't think his effort or emotion was any different tonight than the majority of his games. He just played better. And he hit some FT's.

Could not possibly disagree more.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Could not possibly disagree more.

Yes you could. I could have said, "Haywood tries really hard every single game."

[sefant77]

Guess im such a "Jet hater" and yes i really dont care how good he will be the rest of the regular season, its all about the postseason (specially related to Jason Terry).

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Could not possibly disagree more.

This X100.

Like I said in the GDT, this is a guy who for prolonged stretches has looked like a terrible player, and it has NOTHING to do with skill, because as he shows, when he wants, he is a top 10 caliber center. I cannot fathom how some people here can't see that Haywood has been a completely different player effort wise the past few games. And it's not like the guy doesn't have a huge history of dogging it when he doesn't want to try. This is one of those apparently polarizing things that baffles me (with regard to some posters not seeing what to me is grass = green obvious).

[dude1394]

Playing hard is part of the skill package...I'm not sure it can be seperated at all.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Yes you could. I could have said, "Haywood tries really hard every single game."

But is it actually possible to disagree more with the original statement?

[CadBane]

Effort and skill are easily seperable.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by CadBane

This X100.

Like I said in the GDT, this is a guy who for prolonged stretches has looked like a terrible player, and it has NOTHING to do with skill, because as he shows, when he wants, he is a top 10 caliber center. I cannot fathom how some people here can't see that Haywood has been a completely different player effort wise the past few games. And it's not like the guy doesn't have a huge history of dogging it when he doesn't want to try. This is one of those apparently polarizing things that baffles me (with regard to some posters not seeing what to me is grass = green obvious).

yep, that's all true. i'd just love to know what snapped in his head to make him want to start playing hard and trying again.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

But is it actually possible to disagree more with the original statement?

Now we're talkin'. Really getting down to the meat and potatoes here. And here's a perfect chance to put this into action, cause I'm going to moderately agree but moderately disagree with two statements:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Playing hard is part of the skill package...I'm not sure it can be seperated at all.

Agree that it's often very difficult to separate them, disagree that they can't be separated at all. It's possible in some instances.

Originally Posted by CadBane

Effort and skill are easily seperable.

Agree that they're capable of being separated, but disagree that it's (always) easy to do so.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by xrobx

yep, that's all true. i'd just love to know what snapped in his head to make him want to start playing hard and trying again.

I think jthig is correct in citing his benching against NJ as a contributing factor. Having exactly one guy behind him who's a threat to his spot in the rotation instead of two who are only nominal or matchup threats might be playing a role as well. Beyond that, I can't imagine that his persistent lack of in-game focus is still rewarding to him in any way, even if it once was in some childish way, yet as time has gone on it's probably not costing him any less effort to ratchet up his aloofness once tipoff arrives. Eventually any behavior that's not rewarded will cease to occur, and that's hopefully part of what's going on.

Goodness knows Dallas could stand for him to keep playing like this. He's the one guy on the roster who's capable of making up for some of what the Mavs lost defensively when Caron went down.

[mavs777]

Cardinal has played 2 minutes in the last 4 games combined, seems like he won't last past the deadline

[Underdog]

For the second game in a row (and second game this season), the Mavs had 7 different players score in double digits - Dirk (19), Terry (18), Chandler (12), Kidd (12), Stevenson (11), Marion (11) and Haywood (10).

We also had 28 assists tonight (25 last game, 23 season avg) - Terry had a team-high 11 to go with his 18 points and Stevenson still proved useful in the offense during a 3-10 shooting slump by dishing out another 5. I've loved the movement on the offensive end the past 2 games - we finally seem to be clicking again.

Dirk looks like he's getting a little pep back in his step. He doesn't exactly appear to be 100%, but at least he's back to shooting efficiently (8-11 FG / 1-1 3P / 2-3 FT). He also added 6 rebounds, 4 assists and some pretty good defense. Nothing to worry about here, folks!

Brendan Haywood played like a man tonight. 10 points, 6 rebounds (2 offensive), solid defense and 6-9 from the dreaded FT line in 19 minutes. It looks like he's finally embraced his role as a backup - if he's playing like this in April, I like our chances against the Lakers and Spurs.

Sasha, Sasha, Sasha - good luck, dude!! (but I smell something brewing in the Mavs front office...)

[BGMaverick9]

MMB recap
http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2011/1/...avs-over-hawks

[xrobx]

in other good news, the hornets lost to the queens tonight

[fluid.forty.one]

Great win and it's great to see Dirk shooting well again.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Underdog

For the second game in a row (and second game this season), the Mavs had 7 different players score in double digits - Dirk (19), Terry (18), Chandler (12), Kidd (12), Stevenson (11), Marion (11) and Haywood (10).

We also had 28 assists tonight (25 last game, 23 season avg) - Terry had a team-high 11 to go with his 18 points and Stevenson still proved useful in the offense during a 3-10 shooting slump by dishing out another 5. I've loved the movement on the offensive end the past 2 games - we finally seem to be clicking again.

Dirk looks like he's getting a little pep back in his step. He doesn't exactly appear to be 100%, but at least he's back to shooting efficiently (8-11 FG / 1-1 3P / 2-3 FT). He also added 6 rebounds, 4 assists and some pretty good defense. Nothing to worry about here, folks!

Brendan Haywood played like a man tonight. 10 points, 6 rebounds (2 offensive), solid defense and 6-9 from the dreaded FT line in 19 minutes. It looks like he's finally embraced his role as a backup - if he's playing like this in April, I like our chances against the Lakers and Spurs.

Sasha, Sasha, Sasha - good luck, dude!! (but I smell something brewing in the Mavs front office...)

nice post homeboy
great to see Haywood ballin'.
i agree this team can do damage in the playoffs with our 2 Centers playing well

[deamon]

I don't remember when last time Haywood played so good, but telling ,,if he's playing like this in April, I like our chances against the Lakers and Spurs" is just right if you say about RS. SAS and LAL are different teams in PO, when DAL play the same as in RS and that's not enough for PO.

[dude1394]

Being a Hawks fan must be really frustrating. They really are in the worst possible position. They are a good team that competes (which is always fun) but they just do not have a superstar at all. It's apparent that in this league you have to have a superstart that requires double-teaming to stop and even then you may not stop them.

They just do not have it. I'd have to tear it all down if I were them, I don't see anyone to build that team around.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Could not possibly disagree more.

Why are you so convinced that Haywood's issues stem from a lack of effort rather than a lack of confidence?

Because I don't see a guy who isn't trying - I see a guy whose self esteem took a blow when he lost the starting job and has been trying to figure out how to cope with that on the court; a guy who looked more like he was struggling to fit in with the new-look Mavs than a guy who was simply pouting.

I think his FT shooting is a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about - certainly you don't believe it was a "lack of effort" that caused him to shoot 20% from the charity stripe, do you? Notice how his FT percentage suddenly got better as the rest of his game kicked up a notch - that reeks of confidence, not effort (although it's easy to mix up the two when the results are the same...)

And I don't think Carlisle played Ian over Haywood just to give him a wake-up call either (although it was part of it) - I think he did it more because the Mavs couldn't afford to keep losing games while Haywood was trying to "figure it out"... Rick has been very gentle with Haywood, which also seems to indicate a confidence issue. If it was simply a lack of effort, I doubt Carlisle would hesitate to kick 'Wood's ass up and down the court or just bench him indefinitely.

I'm not saying your observations about Haywood are off-base, but I do think his problems are a little less selfish than he's being accused of (hell, I wouldn't be totally shocked to find out that Haywood shares some of the concerns about himself that we do.)

Hopefully he's ready to put an end to this debate by continuing to perform like he has the past couple games - hopefully the New 'Wood is here to stay.



EDIT: this quote from Haywood last night seems to support my theory:

"I just take it one game at a time and try to move forward. I'm starting to understand what I'm asked to do out there, and I'm feeling more comfortable"

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Yes, thank you Sasha for being a nice patch hole. And thanks for a broken nose on a 10 day contract. (Now that's giving it up for the team!)

Haywood's effort definitely looks much better. Of course, just making the stupid fts makes him look better either way.

[dude1394]

I'm kind of surprise the hawks didn't start hack-a-wood.. I expect that would have exploded his head again...unfortunately.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm kind of surprise the hawks didn't start hack-a-wood.. I expect that would have exploded his head again...unfortunately.

I think that's why Haywood wasn't on the court the last few minutes of the game, even though his play had earned him the finish.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I think that's why Haywood wasn't on the court the last few minutes of the game, even thought his play had earned him the finish.

Good move by rc then...but if I were the hawks I would have done it to get him out earlier.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why are you so convinced that Haywood's issues stem from a lack of effort rather than a lack of confidence?

Because I don't see a guy who isn't trying - I see a guy whose self esteem took a blow when he lost the starting job and has been trying to figure out how to cope with that on the court; a guy who looked more like he was struggling to fit in with the new-look Mavs than a guy who was simply pouting.

I think his FT shooting is a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about - certainly you don't believe it was a "lack of effort" that caused him to shoot 20% from the charity stripe, do you? Notice how his FT percentage suddenly got better as the rest of his game kicked up a notch - that reeks of confidence, not effort (although it's easy to mix up the two when the results are the same...)

And I don't think Carlisle played Ian over Haywood just to give him a wake-up call either (although it was part of it) - I think he did it more because the Mavs couldn't afford to keep losing games while Haywood was trying to "figure it out"... Rick has been very gentle with Haywood, which also seems to indicate a confidence issue. If it was simply a lack of effort, I doubt Carlisle would hesitate to kick 'Wood's ass up and down the court or just bench him indefinitely.

I'm not saying your observations about Haywood are off-base, but I do think his problems are a little less selfish than he's being accused of (hell, I wouldn't be totally shocked to find out that Haywood shares some of the concerns about himself that we do.)

Hopefully he's ready to put an end to this debate by continuing to perform like he has the past couple games - hopefully the New 'Wood is here to stay.



EDIT: this quote from Haywood last night seems to support my theory:

I just completely disagree. I see a guy that hasn't cared enough to give max effort. I don't buy the comfort thing because it didn't take him any time to get comfortable here last year. And your reasoning for why RC has gone to Ian doesn't make sense to me because he hasn't been very good. He got destroyed in the NJ game. The only reason he kept plating was to send a message.

As for RC kicking his ass, how do we know he isn't? Hell Haywood got suspended for arguing with RC.

[BGMaverick9]

I can totally see both angles, he's pissed/grumpy because he thought he was going to be a starter, someone took away his ball and told him to go home. Everyone can't cope with that the right way. Many people would say, F...you got paid, you're getting paid and you get to play just 15-20 minutes at the most, that's a sweet deal.

I could easily read into his comment as he's "comfortable" in the sense that enough is enough...the effort is not going to cut it and there will be ramifications of some kind if the stuff doesn't stop. Minutes go away..."we love Mahinmi..." etc.

I will say that Haywood isn't totally sitting on the money, he does work. He's doing a lot of work in practice working on his low-post game, the free throws and a TON of cardio work.

Either way...you guys should be demanding that players come on MOR haha, they clearly respond when they're either on or they get heavily mentioned.

We're kind of ahead of the curve

[BUMP]

As frustrating and lazy as he is, Haywood is a big factor in whether or not the Mavs can make a title run or not. We will need his length against LA and Utah.

[Underdog]

Brendan Haywood missed his free throws because Rick Carlisle peed in his Cheerios and he'd probably be an All-Star if he smiled more...

It's a scientific fact.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Brendan Haywood missed his free throws because Rick Carlisle peed in his Cheerios and he'd probably be an All-Star if he smiled more...

It's a scientific fact.

second day in a row I've heard a pissing in cheerios reference....weird

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

second day in a row I've heard a pissing in cheerios reference....weird

It's the third-most preferred Cheerios topping after milk and beer...

[Lor20]

Since we are all talking about brendan.... his FT shooting has been getting better.

october: 0-2 0%
November: 6-22 27%
DEcember: 9-29 31 %
January: 20-43 46.5%
Last 10 games: 52%
Last 5 games : 69%

hopefully he can stabilize around the 60-70% range. That'd be ok for him

[BUMP]

I remember last season when Haywood was balling after the trade, I actually begged the question if he was maybe the best low post scorer the Mavs have ever had in the Cuban era and maybe franchise history.

Not a stretch when you actually consider the stiffs we've trotted out there over the years.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why are you so convinced that Haywood's issues stem from a lack of effort rather than a lack of confidence?

Because I don't see a guy who isn't trying - I see a guy whose self esteem took a blow when he lost the starting job and has been trying to figure out how to cope with that on the court; a guy who looked more like he was struggling to fit in with the new-look Mavs than a guy who was simply pouting.

I think his FT shooting is a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about - certainly you don't believe it was a "lack of effort" that caused him to shoot 20% from the charity stripe, do you? Notice how his FT percentage suddenly got better as the rest of his game kicked up a notch - that reeks of confidence, not effort (although it's easy to mix up the two when the results are the same...)

And I don't think Carlisle played Ian over Haywood just to give him a wake-up call either (although it was part of it) - I think he did it more because the Mavs couldn't afford to keep losing games while Haywood was trying to "figure it out"... Rick has been very gentle with Haywood, which also seems to indicate a confidence issue. If it was simply a lack of effort, I doubt Carlisle would hesitate to kick 'Wood's ass up and down the court or just bench him indefinitely.

I'm not saying your observations about Haywood are off-base, but I do think his problems are a little less selfish than he's being accused of (hell, I wouldn't be totally shocked to find out that Haywood shares some of the concerns about himself that we do.)

Hopefully he's ready to put an end to this debate by continuing to perform like he has the past couple games - hopefully the New 'Wood is here to stay.



EDIT: this quote from Haywood last night seems to support my theory:

Co-sign all of this. And I'll add that "poor effort" is often conflated with the inconsistency and sometimes-long stretches of poor productivity that always occur with decidedly mediocre, inconsistent players like Haywood. Damp got accused of all the same stuff (although not by thig) that people are now accusing Haywood of. That's not a coincidence.

[jthig32]

The suspension and the benchings suggest that this is not simply inconsistency.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The suspension and the benchings suggest that this is not simply inconsistency.

Damp got benched all the time, too, and I know you don't think he was regularly loafing it out there (nor do I). And if the suspension bears any link to effort, it's a very tenuous one, at best. There was never any report that his argument with Carlisle had anything to do with lack of effort.

I think the real issue is that the suspension plays into the impression that Haywood isn't anywhere near a model team player, which leaves fans with a bad taste in their mouths, which then leads to fans assuming that his poor performances are because of bad effort. Understandable inferences, but tenuous ones nonetheless.