Some wisdom from Mark Stein - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Hitman · 10-03-2003, 08:19 AM

as compared to Chad Ford who overrates the TPups like the rest of the media.

Shooting Guard
Overrated? Latrell Sprewell, T-Wolves -- Spree is an obsession. His numbers the past few years and the Knicks' pitiful record suggest that he peaked about three years ago. Everyone is talking about how the Wolves are now one of the three most dangerous teams in the West. But considering that four of their five starters (Spree, Sam Cassell, Wally Szczerbiak and Michael Olowokandi) could've made the overrated list -- it's tough to untangle the hype from the reality. Spree's absence at media day should give Flip Saunders a nice taste of what he's in for this year.

MFFL · 10-03-2003, 08:34 AM

Four of five starters on an overrated list - sounds about right.

dirno2000 · 10-03-2003, 08:49 AM

I don't think anybody is saying they’re loaded with all stars. Just that the players they picked up are better than the players that left. Add that to the fact that they were pretty good last year, and the fact that KG seems to make those around him better and they are an intriguing team.

On the downside, they have more chemistry issues than the other teams with new additions. Sam Cassell is a gamer, but he's also been know to pout when things don't go his way, and Spree's not exactly a character guy.

Murphy3 · 10-03-2003, 08:59 AM

all three will help..but i can't say that i'm really a big fan of any of them at this point in their careers.

Jeremiah · 10-03-2003, 09:09 AM

Marc must have re-thought his position, because I remember him touting the Wolves as top 4 since the trade.

Tarzan · 10-03-2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

and the fact that KG seems to make those around him better and they are an intriguing team.

Since when is this a fact? I thought the problem was that he made everyone around him suck. There are not any players that excelled around KG and then went somewhere else and did worse. I would say there are 5 overrated players on that team.

dirno2000 · 10-03-2003, 11:27 AM

He makes those around him suck? That's an odd statement.

The fact is, over the past few years KG has had a worse supporting cast then the other superstars in the West. Weather you agree or not, the general consensus that he makes those around him better. That theory will be put to the test this year. I can say that Chauncy Billips had never shoot better than 40% until he came to Minn, and Hudson had his best year ever with KG. I really don't think Wally would have ever been an all star without KG, but that's just my opinion.

If you think he's overrated, there's probably nothing I can say to change your mind though.

Tarzan · 10-03-2003, 11:47 AM

I went too far by saying he makes those around him suck. However, I have never heard many people claim that he makes those around him better. I always hear about how he is great and his teamates suck.

madape · 10-03-2003, 12:54 PM

I'd put KG on that overrated list, too. He struggles to score. He never dominates onthe offensive side of the ball. Usually, you want to depend on your best player to take the last shot. If I were coach of the T-Wolves, I'd feel very uneasy about heaping that responsibility on KG. He's not a terrific passer, either. So the offense needs to be run through someone other than Garnett. On defense, I think he gets a little more attention than he deserves because of all his clowning around - making stupid faces, clapping his hands on the ground, screaming.. He's a good player, but he's not a physical force on the level of Shaq, Duncan, or Hakeem in his prime. He'll block a few shots and grab a lot of boards. But I have never considered the Wolves an elite defensive team. If KG was all he was cracked up to be, I think we would. He's a good all around player, definitely one of the top ten players in the NBA. But people talk of him like he's the best player in the league and I just don't see it.

This year he won't have any excuses. If he can't win a playoff series with the talent the Wolves have surrounded him with, it will be obvious to everyone that Garnett is just another good player incapable of taking it to the next level.

Murphy3 · 10-03-2003, 12:57 PM

in fairness to Garnett, i believe he stepped up for the most part in the first round series last year..
plus, he has averaged around 5 assists for the last 4 years or so if memory serves me correctly. But, if the offense is ran through you, don't you have to average around that many assists?

dirno2000 · 10-03-2003, 01:32 PM

You can call him overrated if you like. Overrated is really an impossible point to debate, because it depends on who's doing the rating. I would take issue with a couple of your points.

You said he struggled to score, but look at his line from last year:

02-03 MIN 82 82 40.5 .502 .282 .751 3.00 10.50 13.40 6.0 1.38 1.57 2.79 2.40 23.0

He averaged 23 ppg on 50% shooting. You call that struggling to score? You say he can't pass; yet he averaged 6 assists per game. It doesn't make sense.

Nobody considers him a dominant force like Shaq or TD. Everybody who knows basketball know it's Shaq and Tim (not necessarily in that order) then everybody else. He does rank high on the next tier with Kobe, T-Mac, Dirk and C-Webb.

He is a good solid defender. Some Mavs fans don't think so because Dirk always kills Minn, but Dirk is a great offensive player. When he has it going, nobody in the league can stop him. The same can be said for the other players on the top 2 tiers. Saunders doesn't see the point of making him chase Dirk all over the court and tiring him out. The strategy seems to be, let Dirk get his and focus on the others. It didn't work in the playoffs, but it worked ok last year when they split with us. They always play us well.

I also don't get your point that if KG were a great defender, Minn would be a great defensive team. He's one person. SA is not a great defensive team just because of Duncan.

As far as him not taking the last shoot, this is going to be the albatross that hangs around his neck like Dirks albatross will always be his defense. People don't mention that he's improving defensively and is not a bad post defender. That would require watching a game. Let me now post his playoff line:

6 6 44.2 71-138 .514 3-9 .333 17-28 .607 1.80 13.80 15.70 5.2 1.67 1.67 3.00 3.80 27.0

This is a monster line. 27-16-5! How is he not a prime time player? He also made a # of big shoots in that series. He raised his game in every category.

Look, Magig Johnson was able to lead the Lakers to the title his rookie year without Kareem. For most players, being able to lead a team in the playoffs is a process that takes years. We are seeing that first hand and so is SAC. Maybe he'll never do it. Barkley couldn't, neither could Malone and Stockton. Right now it's still too early to tell.

The funny thing is I’m not even a KG fan, but as a basketball fan I have to respect his game. I just hate to see him knocked unjustly.

Murphy3 · 10-03-2003, 01:38 PM

i would agree with most of that..i do, however, believe that he is unjustly given too much credit defensively. i don't see him as a great man to man defender..he's a great helpside shot blocker.
Is he a good defender? yes, of course. very good? quite possibly...but, in my opinion, a great defender has to do a better job versus the elite players at his position than what KG does...

Nash13 · 10-03-2003, 05:03 PM

I'd have to agree with Madape on this one. Many analysis, actually most to all of them say that players make names for themselves in the playoffs. So how is Garnett one of the top 4 or 3 when he can't get his team out of the first round? Dirk's been to the WCF, even Chris Webber was in the WCF, but nobody but us have either of them as a top 4 or 3 player.