Most Overrated Player in the NBA

[nowhereman]

I say David West, Derrick Rose, or Carmelo.

Discuss.

[Underdog]

Amar'e'e'e'e'e, Bosh.

[mac222b]

funny, because i sort of naturally assumed this thread was gonna be about Melo.
Melo in a landslide.

[jthig32]

Derrick Rose???? Um...no.

For along time it was Baron Davis, at least by people on this board.

I tend to lean towards Carmelo as well these days.

[j0Shi]

Easily Melo. For a player who is constantly called the best scorer in the league he is pretty inefficient.

[Usually Lurkin]

All of the New York Knicks. That is, Amare, Melo, and Dan and Toni.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Derrick Rose???? Um...no.

For along time it was Baron Davis, at least by people on this board.

I tend to lean towards Carmelo as well these days.

Rose has certainly become overrated imo.

People talk about him as a LOCK for MVP. He's a very good player...but lets be real, the guy shoots 44% from the field and 34% from three while turning it over 3.4 times a game. Those are some very damning stats. I don't think a guy that shoots 44% and turns it over nearly 4 times a game should be an MVP. What's HIGHLY underrated is the rest of the Bulls team. I know they battled some injuries, but Rose has three borderline all-stars in Deng, Boozer, Noah. Noah is probably the 2nd best center in the NBA. Bench is very very very good as well with Korver, Gibson, Asik, Watson, Kurt Thomas and Brewer. Not one weak link there. TT is coach of the year.

So yeah, I think Rose is overrated. On/Off plus/minus is only +1.2 (Deng has a higher one).

I also think Durant, Amare, Melo, Pau, Blake Griffin are overrated. Keep in mind, great players, but overrated to their perception and overall impact.

Guys I think are underrated:

Lamar Odom, DeJuan Blair, Deng, Tony Parker, Chuck Hayes, Kyle Lowry, Gortat, Thaddeus Young.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Rose has certainly become overrated imo.

People talk about him as a LOCK for MVP. He's a very good player...but lets be real, the guy shoots 44% from the field and 34% from three while turning it over 3.4 times a game. Those are some very damning stats. I don't think a guy that shoots 44% and turns it over nearly 4 times a game should be an MVP. What's HIGHLY underrated is the rest of the Bulls team. I know they battled some injuries, but Rose has three borderline all-stars in Deng, Boozer, Noah. Noah is probably the 2nd best center in the NBA. Bench is very very very good as well with Korver, Gibson, Asik, Watson, Kurt Thomas and Brewer. Not one weak link there. TT is coach of the year.

So yeah, I think Rose is overrated. On/Off plus/minus is only +1.2 (Deng has a higher one).

I also think Durant, Amare, Melo, Pau, Blake Griffin are overrated. Keep in mind, great players, but overrated to their perception and overall impact.

Guys I think are underrated:

Lamar Odom, DeJuan Blair, Deng, Tony Parker, Chuck Hayes, Kyle Lowry, Gortat, Thaddeus Young.

I was going to list all of the same overrated guys you did except for Pau. He's simply underused.

It's hard to call Rose or Durant overrated because they are both great players and really care about winning(Durant also really cares about his stats)but they also seem to be good guys. Yet they are both pretty inefficient offensively and could be better defenders if they tried harder. Only slightly overrated.

[jthig32]

The question was MOST overrated player in the NBA. Rose isn't anywhere close to that. He might have three borderline all stars, but between the three of them they've missed a ton of games, and they're about to take the #1 seed away from a team with three bonafide all stars (and a fourth that was named an all star this year).

Derrick Rose is clearly having a greater impact than the metrics are showing this year. Or the Bulls are just lucky.

[LonghornDub]

Bosh.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The question was MOST overrated player in the NBA. Rose isn't anywhere close to that. He might have three borderline all stars, but between the three of them they've missed a ton of games, and they're about to take the #1 seed away from a team with three bonafide all stars (and a fourth that was named an all star this year).

Derrick Rose is clearly having a greater impact than the metrics are showing this year. Or the Bulls are just lucky.

Or his supporting case is extremely good and well coached? The Bulls probably have been somewhat lucky this year. Rose certainly isn't the most overrated player in the NBA, but I think he's overrated.


Btw, all the Celtics players have missed games too, and they've played 80% of the season without a real center.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Bosh.

I would have certainly agreed before the season. At this point though, Bosh is so much of a laughing stock, I don't think people even rate him high enough to be overrated.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by CadBane

I would have certainly agreed before the season. At this point though, Bosh is so much of a laughing stock, I don't think people even rate him high enough to be overrated.

A fair point.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by CadBane

I would have certainly agreed before the season. At this point though, Bosh is so much of a laughing stock, I don't think people even rate him high enough to be overrated.

I was going to add that after I listed him - I think initial expectations of Bosh were a lot more overrated than what people think about him at this point in the season...

And I see your point on Rose, but he's overrated the same way the Beatles were overrated (which is to say, he's really, really good, but he's not the BEST like many want to claim) - I think this thread is more about the Madonnas, U2's and Nirvanas of the basketball world...

[Dtownsfinest]

David West? If anything he's underrated. HE gets paid around 6 to 7 million a year. Never hear anyone talk about him but he's a good player.

Most overrated player..........I would say Bosh but that would be simply my Heat hate talking. Before he was a Heat everyone considered him a good player and he still is one. Soft? Maybe. But he'd by dominate on the Bulls with Rose.


I'd say Melo and Boozer as of right now. I still think Melo is a solid player but everyone considers him a "Superstar" and I don't believe he's in Bron or Wade's league. There was a point he was better than them IMO but that time has long gone.

[Usually Lurkin]

Pau's a good mention here. You hear way too much "best pf in the league" and "when will he be MVP" type talk. It's as if people don't remember that he did have his own team at one point.

[CadBane]

I don't see how Boozer is overrated. He's been fantastic, probably should have been an all-star over dinosaur man. Yet no one really talks about him much.

Yeah, the reason I say Pau is the "best PF", "most talented" big man you hear thrown around SO much these days. No. Just no.

[Mavs999]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Pau's a good mention here. You hear way too much "best pf in the league" and "when will he be MVP" type talk. It's as if people don't remember that he did have his own team at one point.

so by this statement we can say that Kobe Bryant deserved the Finals MVP the last 2 years fair and square.

[Budapest Maverick]

Kobe. Hear me out. I honestly think the reason he has 5 championships, doesn't have a whole lot to do with him. He absolutely mailed it in at least 5 of his 7 finals, if not 6. If it's not for Phil, Shaq, and the Gasol, Odom, Bynum trio, and to an extent Artest - and unlike Kobe - the actually very clutch Fisher and Horry... He has zero championships. Replace him with Dirk for their career, and Dirk has 5 rings, Kobe has none. I would love to see Kobe going to war with a young Devin and Josh Howard, and a frontcourt of Damp and Diop, lmao.


He makes the all-defense teams regularly, despite the fact that he only occasionally plays defense since like 2003, and guys like Sefolosha doesn't get the recognition. Also, his MVP award was a life time achievement award. The evil midget so badly outplayed him that season it wasn't funny. And the biggest reason, why i think he's the most overrated player (despite being a trumendous player btw) is there are more and more people who actually really think he's close to MJ... Which is an absolute joke of course. I honestly think he's a very lucky, rich man's Iverson, always being in the best possible situation. Think about that, Dirk scores just as much in the playoffs, on better efficiency than Bryant.


I've read a piece, that pointed out with facts, that Paul Pierce is also a better playoff performer. Last year's game 7 was a perfect example of Kobe's career. Shooting 4 for 26 (or whatever), his frontcourt saved him one more time, and he's the finals MVP, and the next day, people start talking about what if he matches MJ's rings next year. That's the ESPN (or whatever other medias) created big freakin' hype baloon, and it will not stop until Bryant retires. That is how badly they want to find the next Jordan, and if they can't find it, they'll create one, the biggest manufactured superstar of all-time.

[jthig32]

Um...no. Look I dislike Kobe as much as anyone, but let's try to stay on this side of the sanity line. Shaq was an undoubtedly great player, but let's not lose sight of the fact that he was almost useless closing out close games. Kobe was the closer on a title team when he was 21 years old.

You're underselling his defense as well.

There's no doubt that he's been fortunate, but he's still been the best player on two NBA Finals teams and the closer and only guard creator for three more.

Jordan also had a fantastic coach, had an elite and under rated all time great player, and had great role players as well.

I do think history will remember Kobe as being better than he was, but you are taking the idea way, way too far.

[sefant77]

Melo in a landslide

Kevin Martin - empty stats

[mavs777]

Rose, he is a very good player but watch Rose and Westbrook play, what do you see? Basically the same player

[Thespiralgoeson]

"Overrated" arguments are overrated. Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony, and Amar'e Stoudemire may or may not be "overrated," I don't know. What I do know is that they're all phenomenal players and I'd take any one of them on my team any day.

[xrobx]

lebron james

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Um...no. Look I dislike Kobe as much as anyone, but let's try to stay on this side of the sanity line. Shaq was an undoubtedly great player, but let's not lose sight of the fact that he was almost useless closing out close games. Kobe was the closer on a title team when he was 21 years old.

You're underselling his defense as well.

There's no doubt that he's been fortunate, but he's still been the best player on two NBA Finals teams and the closer and only guard creator for three more.

Jordan also had a fantastic coach, had an elite and under rated all time great player, and had great role players as well.

I do think history will remember Kobe as being better than he was, but you are taking the idea way, way too far.

It seems to me that you think that a great player can't be massively overrated. To me, theoretically, any player can be overrated. MJ, KAJ, Bird, anybody. Kobe is a Top 5 player of the last decade, but the people will probably remember him as the best, when in reality, at least three (KG, Shaq, Duncan) player's prime impact dwarfed Kobe's. Some have him in the top 5 all-time already, which is ridiculous. He's not even the best Lakers yet, and in 2 years, most of the people (at least under 20) could think he is better than Jordan. Maybe they already think.

[rabbitproof]

KG.

He's good and a great defender but he ain't been ASG material. 14-8 over the last two years while playing with 2-3 other All-Stars. Hell naw.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

It seems to me that you think that a great player can't be massively overrated. To me, theoretically, any player can be overrated. MJ, KAJ, Bird, anybody. Kobe is a Top 5 player of the last decade, but the people will probably remember him as the best, when in reality, at least three (KG, Shaw, Duncan) player's prime impact dwarfed Kobe's. Some have him in the top 5 all-time already, which is ridiculous. He's not even the best Lakers yet, and in 2 years, most of the people (at least under 20) could think he is better than Jordan. Maybe they already think.

This I can get on board with, for the most part. You just went much more over the top in your previous post. Duncan is unquestionably the best player of the last decade+. I think Shaq vs Kobe is much closer to a discussion, and I don't put KG ahead of him.

But this post I can get behind for sure.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

KG.

He's good and a great defender but he ain't been ASG material. 14-8 over the last two years while playing with 2-3 other All-Stars. Hell naw.

14-8 while still playing his level of defense is ASG material as far as I'm concerned.

[Thespiralgoeson]

I hate Kobe, but the guy is easily one of the top 10 greatest players ever. And yes, you could make a very strong argument for top 5.

The idea that he is in any way "overrated" I find to be just plain silly.

[alexamenos]

Jason Kidd.

He's an adequate role player at most and yet he's frequently talked about as if his achievements over the last 20 years or so (or however long he's been in the game) have any relevance to his contribution today.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Jason Kidd.

He's an adequate role player at most and yet he's frequently talked about as if his achievements over the last 20 years or so (or however long he's been in the game) have any relevance to his contribution today.

I agree with this, but in fairness I think most Mavs fans have finally started to realize that now. I only wish Cuban and Donnie would've realized this before trading for him.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I agree with this, but in fairness I think most Mavs fans have finally started to realize that now. I only wish Cuban and Donnie would've realized this before trading for him.

I think Mavs fans are probably ahead of the curve in this regard. My impression of the national media is that the Mavs are Dirk and Jason Kidd...none of them appreciate that Kidd is probably no better than the 5th or 6th best player on the team.

Addendum...

Is there anyone in the universe who would take Matt Bonner over Jason Kidd? I dont think so, and I include myself. Nonetheless, Matt Bonner has a significantly higher on court v off court +\- than Kidd. This is the essence of overrated...where the commonly held perception of a player's value is considerably higher than his measurable on court contribution.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

KG.

He's good and a great defender but he ain't been ASG material. 14-8 over the last two years while playing with 2-3 other All-Stars. Hell naw.

Obviously, Kobe has him longevity-vise, but Garnett's prime impact (and i dont't like him either...) literally dwarfs Bryant's prime impact. PER, all kinds of adjusted plus-minuses, roland rating, you name it, every advanced stat basically. It's no wonder that the top 5 of the last decade when it comes to adjusted plus-minuses, contains KG, Dirk, Duncan, and i don't remember who else, but Kobe is not there.

Kobe's prime impact is so unbelievable weak, it's not funny. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a top 30 season of all- time. Not only lot of his peers destroys him impact-wise, but a lot of players who people actually ranks behind Kobe already (Robinson, Hakeem for example). He has the rings, but again, what other great player wouldn't have with a supporting cast like that, with a coach like that, and with refs like that? (Sacramento series anyone?)

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I hate Kobe, but the guy is easily one of the top 10 greatest players ever. And yes, you could make a very strong argument for top 5.

The idea that he is in any way "overrated" I find to be just plain silly.

No it's actually not, and no, he's not easily one of the top 10 players ever. He doesn't have a PER in the top 20 probably. All he has is his rings, which i know in America means everything, but what did he do, besides below average scoring efficiency, bitching about his teammates, and do the wannabe Jordan routine? How is possible that he's literally the only all-time great who oddly different, when you look at the advanced stats? You could say stats aren't everything, yet, he's the only one that does not have the impact numbers? And don't give me that weak rings argument. Again, replace Kobe with Dirk for their careers, and Dirk has 5 rings, Kobe has none. Please, give me that strong argument why should we change the immortal 6 to immortal 7. (lmao)

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This I can get on board with, for the most part. You just went much more over the top in your previous post. Duncan is unquestionably the best player of the last decade+. I think Shaq vs Kobe is much closer to a discussion, and I don't put KG ahead of him.

But this post I can get behind for sure.

It still stands what i wrote, this was just part of my argument why i think he's overrated. Obviously, i'm not a fan, but even i have him outside of the top 10 all-time. To me though, he wouldn't crack the immortal 6 even if he wins 2 more. He simply does not have the prime impact. I think prime impact is the most important thing when it comes to an all-time list. And Kobe is the odd man out.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No it's actually not, and no, he's not easily one of the top 10 players ever.

Yes, it actually is, and yes, he is. Easily. None of the lame excuses or meaningless hypothetical scenarios in the world can change history. "If you switched Player A with Player B..." It's meaningless bullsh*t. And I don't need to use the "weak rings argument" because I don't have to. His numbers alone compare favorably to anyone else's in NBA history. And beyond that I don't even need to look up his numbers to know how good he is because I have eyes. If you want to argue that someone like Duncan has had a greater career over the same time period, then fine. I don't necessarily have a problem with that. But to say that he is anything less than one the best players in the history of the game is just asinine. He's the second greatest ever at his position, and that puts him pretty f*cking high on the list overall.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

His numbers alone compare favorably to anyone else's in NBA history.

What?

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No it's actually not, and no, he's not easily one of the top 10 players ever. He doesn't have a PER in the top 20 probably. All he has is his rings, which i know in America means everything, but what did he do, besides below average scoring efficiency, bitching about his teammates, and do the wannabe Jordan routine? How is possible that he's literally the only all-time great who oddly different, when you look at the advanced stats? You could say stats aren't everything, yet, he's the only one that does not have the impact numbers? And don't give me that weak rings argument. Again, replace Kobe with Dirk for their careers, and Dirk has 5 rings, Kobe has none. Please, give me that strong argument why should we change the immortal 6 to immortal 7. (lmao)

All he has is rings? Isn't that how a superstar is defined? His success in the post season? Kobe not only has had success but has RINGS. Its insane to speak of it like anyone can get them. Only a handful have gotten them in the past 20 years. And Kobe would have no rings if he was on the Mavs but Dirk would have 5 if he was on the Lakers? What is your basis for this opinion? I'd love to hear it.

Originally Posted by mavs777

Rose, he is a very good player but watch Rose and Westbrook play, what do you see? Basically the same player

Now wait a minute now. You can argue that Russell Westbrook is a superstar in this league. I need to this type of play from him for about another year or two for me to consider him a superstar personally but he's every bit as good as Derrick Rose and that's not a slight to Rose but more so a compliment for how great Westbrook has been this season. He's defintely been more consistent than Durant.

[mavs777]

Now wait a minute now. You can argue that Russell Westbrook is a superstar in this league. I need to this type of play from him for about another year or two for me to consider him a superstar personally but he's every bit as good as Derrick Rose and that's not a slight to Rose but more so a compliment for how great Westbrook has been this season. He's defintely been more consistent than Durant.



I am not saying that as a slight, to Rose he is a great player but people annointed him the MVP and Kenny and Chuck called him the best player in the NBA, he isn't a top 5 player yet. Westbrook is great but I still take Durant over him, he plays too fast at times same for Rose

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Now wait a minute now. You can argue that Russell Westbrook is a superstar in this league. I need to this type of play from him for about another year or two for me to consider him a superstar personally but he's every bit as good as Derrick Rose and that's not a slight to Rose but more so a compliment for how great Westbrook has been this season. He's defintely been more consistent than Durant.



I am not saying that as a slight, to Rose he is a great player but people annointed him the MVP and Kenny and Chuck called him the best player in the NBA, he isn't a top 5 player yet. Westbrook is great but I still take Durant over him, he plays too fast at times same for Rose

I'd take Durant over Westbrook too but I think Westbrook has been the more consistent this season. You know what you get night in and out from him. With Durant sometimes his J is falling sometimes its not. I'd probably take Durant over any superstar right now when you factor in potential and age.

I like Rose's game. I think when JET and Chuck say Rose is the best player in the league they're factoring in his impact he's had on the Bulls. But no I can't say he's the best player or top 5. He's getting there though. He's still very young into his career like Westbrook is.