Fantasy Football talk - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 09-14-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Thats the thing, he doesnt have to. Their oline was god awful last year too. There is actually a way that could benefit him. If they cant protect and their coach grows a brain they will have to throw short passes. he is a great receiver and then voila still getting me fantasy points.

You may be right. But I can envision a whole lot of atrocious games out of that team. I can't imagine their offense staying on the field for much time each game. But we'll see.

Five-ofan · 09-14-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You may be right. But I can envision a whole lot of atrocious games out of that team. I can't imagine their offense staying on the field for much time each game. But we'll see.

He put up 1600 yards in 14 games last year. is there a chance it could backfire? Sure. There almost always is but this imo was a great risk to take because the upside is just ridiculous. As good as Boldin is, he is still a receiver and rbs are alot more valuable than receivers. I personally think there are more wrs who are better than boldin than there are rbs better than jordan.

Ninkobei · 09-14-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He put up 1600 yards in 14 games last year. is there a chance it could backfire? Sure. There almost always is but this imo was a great risk to take because the upside is just ridiculous. As good as Boldin is, he is still a receiver and rbs are alot more valuable than receivers. I personally think there are more wrs who are better than boldin than there are rbs better than jordan.

whats the number 1 thing everyone should know about fantasy sports?

well, lucky for you, i'll tell you..

Last year is not This year! I can name plenty of players who did above average in 04 who put up awful numbers in 05.

but im done arguing this topic, because neither of us will win at this point in time. I hope you can make me eat crow, because I hope your team does good..but I still have little faith in lamonty

jthig32 · 09-14-2006, 11:04 PM

That is true, previous years are not always an indicator, and of course nothing is guaranteed. That's why people play. But I don't see anything that says he can't be as good as last year. I mean, the Raiders were horrible last year too. I dont' see that as a reason for him to have a bad year.

chumdawg · 09-14-2006, 11:42 PM

One reason might be that opposing teams don't have any real need to worry about the Raiders passing game, so they can put eight in the box all game long.

jthig32 · 09-15-2006, 12:15 AM

I don't see how Brooks could be a whole lot worse than Collins last year.

Brooks makes a lot of dumb mistakes, but he is a decent passing QB when he's slinging the ball around.

Plus Jordan is a good receiving back, meaning he's less affected by a bad team that is always behind.

nashtymavsfan13 · 09-15-2006, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't see how Brooks could be a whole lot worse than Collins last year.

Brooks makes a lot of dumb mistakes, but he is a decent passing QB when he's slinging the ball around.

Plus Jordan is a good receiving back, meaning he's less affected by a bad team that is always behind.

Right. Jordan's the best receiving back, or at least one of the best, so that's not really a concern.

And referring to what chummy said, they won't/can't stack the box because of Moss. Brooks is able to throw the deep ball pretty well, and they said they want to do that often this year, and since they can't have only single coverage on Moss there won't be 8 men in the box.

Bottom line imo is that Jordan is a great back with risks. There is no sure thing in fantasy football, but the possible and in my opinion likely reward from Jordan is of more value than Boldin. 5-0 made a great trade taking advantage of someone overreacting too quickly. Even though it could backfire, I think it's worth the risk. The reward could be top 10 RB stats.

Five-ofan · 09-15-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

whats the number 1 thing everyone should know about fantasy sports?

well, lucky for you, i'll tell you..

Last year is not This year! I can name plenty of players who did above average in 04 who put up awful numbers in 05.

but im done arguing this topic, because neither of us will win at this point in time. I hope you can make me eat crow, because I hope your team does good..but I still have little faith in lamonty

I wont eat crow if he has 3 points the rest of the year. At the time i made the trade, imo it was a great risk. Like i said, it could backfire but the risk/reward ratio is fine. Also since i got TJ i feel even better about it. Hes clearly not boldin but he is still a solid receiver and him and Keyshawn i doubt will be alot worse than Boldin and McCardell(McCardell is one of the people i think will have a MONSTER dropoff this year)

Darth Ape · 09-15-2006, 07:39 AM

different coach, different quarterback... jordan will suck this year. He was a terrible back to begin with. Now that he's surrounded by trash, he'll look like the floating turd that he is. He's a featured back. That's true. And featured backs will always have some value. But Jordan is most likely the worst featured back in the NFL. In fact there are more than a handful of backs who split time, such as Corey Dillon, Duce Mccallister or Tatum Bell, that I'd select over Jordan.

I'd rank Jordan as around the 28th best fantasty back...

Five-ofan · 09-15-2006, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

different coach, different quarterback... jordan will suck this year. He was a terrible back to begin with. Now that he's surrounded by trash, he'll look like the floating turd that he is. He's a featured back. That's true. And featured backs will always have some value. But Jordan is most likely the worst featured back in the NFL. In fact there are more than a handful of backs who split time, such as Corey Dillon, Duce Mccallister or Tatum Bell, that I'd select over Jordan.

I'd rank Jordan as around the 28th best fantasty back...

He was surrounded by trash last year. That oline isnt much if any worse than it was last year and brooks isnt much if any worse than Collins. You are welcome to think what you want though.

BTW its a .5 PPR league which does help his value alot.

Darth Ape · 09-15-2006, 08:02 AM

.5 ppr would definitely slant the valuation in favor of running backs, although I don't see Jordan as a 25 carry a night workhorse under Art Shell.. especially if the team looks as bad as it does. He got exactly 10 last week. Does your league also do points per catch? That MIGHT help Jordan's value. But remember, the west coast offense is gone, dude. The WCO boosts receiving numbers for backs. I'd be surprised if Jordan catches 200 balls under Shell.

jthig32 · 09-15-2006, 08:21 AM

I belive PPR is point per reception, so yes, his leagu awards points for receptions, which only increases Jordan's value.

28th best back is ridiculous. from 8th to 28th would be one hell of a slide.

Five-ofan · 09-15-2006, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

.5 ppr would definitely slant the valuation in favor of running backs, although I don't see Jordan as a 25 carry a night workhorse under Art Shell.. especially if the team looks as bad as it does. He got exactly 10 last week. Does your league also do points per catch? That MIGHT help Jordan's value. But remember, the west coast offense is gone, dude. The WCO boosts receiving numbers for backs. I'd be surprised if Jordan catches 200 balls under Shell.

PPR is points per reception. Is he gonna catch 200? No i dont think so though that would certainly be nice. I think he will rush for about 1000 catch about 55 balls for around 450 yards and score about 10 total tds. I will be thrilled with those numbers. 28th?

THe rbs i see as better than jordan(one of which i have)
LT
Alexander
LJ
Tiki
Edge
Jackson
Portis
Rudi

The only other arguments i could see are the auburn guys but Caddy cant stay healthy and brown this year reminds me ALOT of JJ last year. JJ and maybe westbrook but he cant stay healthy either.

Darth Ape · 09-15-2006, 09:01 AM

here's how cbs sportsline ranks the backs for next week:

1 L. Tomlinson SD (vs. TEN)
2 S. Alexander SEA (vs. ARI)
3 L. Johnson KC (at DEN)
4 R. Johnson CIN (vs. CLE)
5 S. Jackson STL (at SF)
6 T. Barber NYG (at PHI)
7 R. Brown MIA (vs. BUF)
8 E. James ARI (at SEA)
9 W. Dunn ATL (vs. TB)
10 J. Lewis BAL (vs. OAK)
11 W. Parker PIT (at JAC)
12 F. Gore SF (vs. STL)
13 C. Taylor MIN (vs. CAR)
14 C. Dillon NE (at NYJ)
15 B. Westbrook PHI (vs. NYG)
16 J. Jones DAL (vs. WAS)
17 C. Portis* WAS (at DAL)
18 W. McGahee BUF (at MIA)
19 T. Jones CHI (vs. DET)
20 T. Bell DEN (vs. KC)
21 R. Bush NO (at GB)
22 D. Foster CAR (at MIN)
23 A. Green GB (vs. NO)
24 D. McAllister NO (at GB)
25 C. Williams TB (at ATL)
26 L. Maroney NE (at NYJ)
27 F. Taylor JAC (vs. PIT)
28 L. Jordan OAK (at BAL)
29 R. Droughns CLE (at CIN)
30 D. Rhodes IND (vs. HOU)
31 K. Jones DET (at CHI)
32 M. Bell DEN (vs. KC)
33 W. Lundy HOU (at IND)
34 J. Addai IND (vs. HOU)
35 D. Blaylock NYJ (vs. NE)
36 T. Henry TEN (at SD)
37 B. Jacobs NYG (at PHI)
38 J. Norwood ATL (vs. TB)
39 K. Barlow NYJ (vs. NE)
40 M. Turner SD (vs. TEN)

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/fantasy/story/9657823

Darth Ape · 09-15-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

PPR is points per reception. Is he gonna catch 200? No i dont think so though that would certainly be nice. I think he will rush for about 1000 catch about 55 balls for around 450 yards and score about 10 total tds. I will be thrilled with those numbers. 28th?

THe rbs i see as better than jordan(one of which i have)
LT
Alexander
LJ
Tiki
Edge
Jackson
Portis
Rudi

The only other arguments i could see are the auburn guys but Caddy cant stay healthy and brown this year reminds me ALOT of JJ last year. JJ and maybe westbrook but he cant stay healthy either.

i meant to say 200 yards.. his receiving production will plummet this year.

You're leaving out Ronnie Brown, Barber, McGehee, Jamal Lewis, Thomas Jones, Julius Jones... those guys are CLEARLY better fantasy backs tjan Jordan

I'll agree with you that Cadillac is questionable. I'm not big on him, either. Mabe the two worst featured backs?

Five-ofan · 09-15-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

here's how cbs sportsline ranks the backs for next week:

1 L. Tomlinson SD (vs. TEN)
2 S. Alexander SEA (vs. ARI)
3 L. Johnson KC (at DEN)
4 R. Johnson CIN (vs. CLE)
5 S. Jackson STL (at SF)
6 T. Barber NYG (at PHI)
7 R. Brown MIA (vs. BUF)
8 E. James ARI (at SEA)
9 W. Dunn ATL (vs. TB)
10 J. Lewis BAL (vs. OAK)
11 W. Parker PIT (at JAC)
12 F. Gore SF (vs. STL)
13 C. Taylor MIN (vs. CAR)
14 C. Dillon NE (at NYJ)
15 B. Westbrook PHI (vs. NYG)
16 J. Jones DAL (vs. WAS)
17 C. Portis* WAS (at DAL)
18 W. McGahee BUF (at MIA)
19 T. Jones CHI (vs. DET)
20 T. Bell DEN (vs. KC)
21 R. Bush NO (at GB)
22 D. Foster CAR (at MIN)
23 A. Green GB (vs. NO)
24 D. McAllister NO (at GB)
25 C. Williams TB (at ATL)
26 L. Maroney NE (at NYJ)
27 F. Taylor JAC (vs. PIT)
28 L. Jordan OAK (at BAL)
29 R. Droughns CLE (at CIN)
30 D. Rhodes IND (vs. HOU)
31 K. Jones DET (at CHI)
32 M. Bell DEN (vs. KC)
33 W. Lundy HOU (at IND)
34 J. Addai IND (vs. HOU)
35 D. Blaylock NYJ (vs. NE)
36 T. Henry TEN (at SD)
37 B. Jacobs NYG (at PHI)
38 J. Norwood ATL (vs. TB)
39 K. Barlow NYJ (vs. NE)
40 M. Turner SD (vs. TEN)

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/fantasy/story/9657823

THats for one week genius. He has the ravens so of course he is ranked lower. They ranked him 9th for the season.

Darth Ape · 09-15-2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

THats for one week genius. He has the ravens so of course he is ranked lower. They ranked him 9th for the season.

I realize this, but it's not like he fared very well last week either. Going into week 3, Jordan might have earned you 5 fantasy points total. heheh, nice trade.

Five-ofan · 09-15-2006, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

I realize this, but it's not like he fared very well last week either. Going into week 3, Jordan might have earned you 5 fantasy points total. heheh, nice trade.

I didnt have him in week 1 and im not particularly worried about this week. Im gonna lose this week anyway. I am worried about what he does for the season and i expect big numbers from him later. Im almost a lock for the playoffs because of the way the division system is set up in that league and i expect big numbers from him in the fantasy playoffs. As for him playing the ravens, I have the ravens D so Im not really worried. One of them will have a big game.

Ninkobei · 09-15-2006, 01:04 PM

well considering its a PPR league, then yes Jordan could have some potential. you need to tell me this next time! lol

chumdawg · 09-15-2006, 09:50 PM

Alright, gurus. How about some more of your expert advice?

I am looking to nab a guy off waivers. Here are my several targets:

Brad Johnson (I have Vick and Green)
Ced Benson (I have all kinds of RB's, but I like the potential)
Vernon Davis (I have Gonzalez, but again, I like the potential)

Less targets include:

DeAngelo Williams
Joey Galloway
Keenan McCardell
Keyshawn
MB3 (one Julius Jones injury away)
Mark Clayton
Steve McNair

And then a guy I wonder about rolling the dice on:

Alex Smith
Volek (may be traded to Oakland, where he might thrive)

As for who I could cut:

Trent Green
Matt Jones
Maroney
Troy Williamson

I would hate to part with either of the last two. I like Maroney better than I like MB3. I also hold out hope for Williamson becoming an attractive #3 WR.

But I'm starting to think that Matt Jones is well expendable for me. And who knows how long I will have to wait on Trent Green, and even whether the wait will be worth it. I'm tempted to drop Green for Johnson (call me crazy, but I really like Brad Johnson) and Jones for either Benson or Davis.

Your advice, please. Thanks as always.

chumdawg · 09-15-2006, 10:00 PM

Also, some trades that I offered up in the last couple days. I doubt that any will be taken, but I was mostly trying to stimulate negotiations:

Maroney for Lamont Jordan - I did this just for Matt. The guy who has Jordan is playing fantasy for the first time, and he might be taken in by the first week's numbers. He was god-awful in the draft, so there is no telling what he would do. Hell, this still might not be a good trade for me (hee, hee), but I thought it would be fun to see if it would go through.

Maroney for Chad Johnson - This guy has Johnson, Holt, Bryant, and Moulds at receiver, but Kevin Jones is his backup RB (with only Chris Brown behind him). He won't take Maroney, but he would probably take one of my better backs. Out of James, Dunn, Gore, and Chester Taylor, how high would you go for Chad Johnson (if any)?

Maroney for Bledsoe - I actually think this is fair. He has Hasselbeck in front of Bledsoe, and his third runner is Rhodes. I'm not paying one penny more than Maroney for Bledsoe.

Chester Taylor for Larry Fitzgerald - This cat has Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Terry Glenn, and Wilford at WR. He has Ronnie Brown, Reggie Bush, and Anthony Thomas at RB. Oh, and he also has Mewelde Moore. He is in strong need of an upgrade at RB depth.

chumdawg · 09-15-2006, 10:10 PM

UPDATE: I went ahead and picked up Ced Benson for Matt Jones. I just couldn't stand to see Benson sitting out there like that, and I decided that Jones will never play for me if Steve Smith and Boldin are both healthy.

nashtymavsfan13 · 09-15-2006, 11:32 PM

Chummy, I'd be surprised to see the first, second or fourth trade accepted, but the third one is a nice offer.

I would pick up Galloway immediatley if I were you.

chumdawg · 09-15-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

I would pick up Galloway immediatley if I were you.

If you say so! I just dropped Trent Green for him!

nashtymavsfan13 · 09-16-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If you say so! I just dropped Trent Green for him!

Nice move. I really like Galloway. He had a great year last year, and I think he can do the same this year. I could definetly see him getting some time in your 3rd WR spot. He's a slight risk, but I think it was still worth dropping Green.

chumdawg · 09-17-2006, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

Jordan a top 12 fantasy player? har har har. bad backs on bad teams get no carries and no touchdowns. Jordan is a draft pick for fools only. If you have him, immediately try to trade him and pray to God someone offers up something like Boldin. If they do, laugh all the way to the bank.

That being said, Edgerin James is also an overrated fantasy player. Chum, I'd get what I could for him now. His fantasy value will probably never be higher. Check the history on Dennis Green coached teams and see the running back production. Not pretty. However, after James's last game against the hapless Niner defense, and the overall hype surrounding Edge, you can do better than that trade your buddy proposed. Horn is a good target, I'd say. The Saints are going to air it out this year. I think Palmer is overrated, but he's admitedly a top 5 QB pick. I'd say try James and Vick for Palmer and Horn. That's more even. James is still a top 10 fantasy pick, so it probably looks a little bad for you on the surface. But if it helps you fill a need, it's worth it. You have depth at RB. Your buddy would pull the trigger, I think.

What about James for Chad Johnson?

nashtymavsfan13 · 09-17-2006, 10:58 AM

I would take James over Chad Johnson.

chumdawg · 09-17-2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Nice move. I really like Galloway. He had a great year last year, and I think he can do the same this year. I could definetly see him getting some time in your 3rd WR spot. He's a slight risk, but I think it was still worth dropping Green.

Galloway has 120 yards in the first half!

nashtymavsfan13 · 09-17-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Galloway has 120 yards in the first half!

What'd I tell ya

chumdawg · 09-17-2006, 02:52 PM

Lamont Jordan is really lighting it up today. Got to love all those receiving yards.

I think he misses Norv Turner.

Five-ofan · 09-18-2006, 03:26 PM

BTW, Ape, you might want to look up Robert Smiths stats before you criticize all dennis green rbs. As for jordan, he just played the best defense in football. I said i expected nothing from him in that game. Moving on from that topic,

I have a trent green for chris simms deal on the table. IMO this is kind of pointless but I have always liked Chris even when all the UT fans hated him. I still think he could be a breakout guy and with greens injury it could turn out to be a great deal but im not sure. I havent done this yet im just curious.

Darth Ape · 09-18-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

BTW, Ape, you might want to look up Robert Smiths.

I took your advice and looked them up. Maybe you should, too. Robert Smith played 8 seasons in the NFL. Do you know how many career touchdowns he had in those 8 years? 32! That's an average of only 4 per year! In 1999, he had 2 touchdowns in 13 games!! WOW! That's terrible. Emmit Smith had 25 touchdowns in a single season!

Robert Smith was a talented back, but he was a terrible fantasy player. Dennis Green is in the process of turning another great back into a terrible fantasy player. Happy losing Edgerin James owners!

Five-ofan · 09-18-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

I took your advice and looked them up. Maybe you should, too. Robert Smith played 8 seasons in the NFL. Do you know how many career touchdowns he had in those 8 years? 32! That's an average of only 4 per year! In 1999, he had 2 touchdowns in 13 games!! WOW! That's terrible. Emmit Smith had 25 touchdowns in a single season!

Robert Smith was a talented back, but he was a terrible fantasy player. Dennis Green is in the process of turning another great back into a terrible fantasy player. Happy losing Edgerin James owners!

That is true and that is my biggest gripe with fantasy, they WAY overvalue TDs but smith had several very good seasons. Your right i havent looked them up BUT im quite certain he had several 1500 total yard seasons which if he had 6 or 7 tds is a very good fantasy season.

Five-ofan · 09-18-2006, 04:20 PM

I did look it up and his last season was AMAZING by fantasy standards. Edge is a first ballot HOFer and twice the player smith was. No reason to think he cant duplicate those numbers.

To put those numbers out there, 295 carries for 1521 yards and 7 tds. 36 receptions for 348 yards and 3 tds. Ill take those numbers anyday.

chumdawg · 09-18-2006, 04:24 PM

I must admit it. I traded James last Saturday night. I was ready to faith in Frank Gore and Chester Taylor, to go along with Warrick Dunn. So I picked up Chad Johnson, to go along with Steve Smith and Boldin.

The way I looked at it, James may have been the least valuable of my top four backs (I have Maroney for some insurance), and his trade value was never going to be higher. I could probably have gotten more than Chad Johnson for him, but I decided not to get greedy.

Five-ofan · 09-18-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I must admit it. I traded James last Saturday night. I was ready to faith in Frank Gore and Chester Taylor, to go along with Warrick Dunn. So I picked up Chad Johnson, to go along with Steve Smith and Boldin.

The way I looked at it, James may have been the least valuable of my top four backs (I have Maroney for some insurance), and his trade value was never going to be higher. I could probably have gotten more than Chad Johnson for him, but I decided not to get greedy.

Your team is loaded if you have any qb at all. How in the heck do you have all those receivers?

Big Boy Laroux · 09-18-2006, 04:37 PM

if gore continues this trend and stays healthy, that will be a great trade for you chum.

gore would essentially become your premier back, with dunn and taylor being very adequate 2nd and 3rd RBs. but now you have two top receivers, and one slightly below them (boldin). i like that team.

Darth Ape · 09-18-2006, 04:58 PM

I like the trade chumdawg. Sure, you might have been able to get more for Edge.. but the trade makes you a better team. Your WR core is scary good. I think Chad Johnson will have a better year than Edge. Are you starting 2RB and 3WR? 2 of both plus a swingman?

nashtymavsfan13 · 09-18-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I have a trent green for chris simms deal on the table. IMO this is kind of pointless but I have always liked Chris even when all the UT fans hated him. I still think he could be a breakout guy and with greens injury it could turn out to be a great deal but im not sure. I havent done this yet im just curious.

No way I would do this. Green is only out for like 3 games. His potential fantasy output is sooo much better than Simms'. Simms could breakout, but I seriously doubt it. He's never had that good numbers, and he's started this year poorly too.

chumdawg · 09-18-2006, 05:12 PM

Thanks. I expected to be roasted for that trade.

I drafted Smith and Boldin. Edge was my #1 draft choice (pick 9). I took Smith at #12 and I got Dunn and Boldin the next time it came around to me.

I had Green and Kitna, but I have sinced dropped them both. I now have Vick (very productive for me last week) and Grossman. Can Grossman keep it up?

I also picked up Joey Galloway recently, on nasthy's recommendation. And I had drafted Troy Williamson (or maybe I picked up on the first waivers). Yesterday I picked up Amani Toomer and dropped Burleson. So I do have a whole bunch of WR's. I'm carrying six WR's and only four RB's. I'm hoping I can leverage a trade at some point. We play two of each plus a W/R flex position.

I have Tony Gonzalez at TE, but I would love to add the Clark guy from Chicago. Can he keep it up?