The Texas Rangers Aren't Very Good - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Flacolaco · 06-10-2007, 11:09 PM

Wow this is the most baseball I've watched in a month....

Male30Dan · 06-10-2007, 11:29 PM

GREAT throw there by Lofton to potentially save the game.

chumdawg · 06-10-2007, 11:32 PM

What channel is the game on?

Flacolaco · 06-10-2007, 11:43 PM

And there goes that.

I was thinking to myself "when is the last time I felt good about a Dallas area team win?" (I didn't watch yesterday)

I guess not tonight.

Male30Dan · 06-10-2007, 11:49 PM

CH. 15 on TWC.

Male30Dan · 06-10-2007, 11:49 PM

GD Ian Kinsler and hit bullshit errors.

alexamenos · 06-11-2007, 10:11 AM

i'll 'fess up -- I watched Saturday night's game right up to when the Brewers scored two in the top of the ninth.

FineCubanCigar · 06-11-2007, 11:21 AM

I just hope J.D. is good at firesales..... I'm still bitter he was a buyer last year at the deadline instead of a seller. Tom Hicks and company need to go ahead and start using the word "rebuild" and ship off Gagne, Tex 4 sure, Otsuka, pretty much any one EXCEPT Kinsler, Young, and Starting Pitchers Tejada, McCarthy and reliever C.J. Wilson. McCarthy mainly because he has upside and is young and we know what happens when Texas trades pitchers like those.

Male30Dan · 06-11-2007, 01:00 PM

Please... Young is, what, 31 starting next year??? If we rebuild, he has to go too. By the time we are really good from our prospects both internal and from trades, (likely 3-4 years if it happens at all), he would be going down hill. Trade Young, Tex, AND Blalock. Send Sosa, Cat, and Wilk off. Hell, if Teagarden gets his D down trade Laird too. Trade Millwood, Padilla, Otsuka, and Gagne and blow this mother up all the way and start over.

Bring up the young guys and see what you have while getting prospects all over the place. You would then have for positional players: Catcher - Teagarden, 1st - Unknown/Prospect, 2nd - Kinsler/Duran, SS - Duran/Kinsler, 3rd - Whittleman, LF - Prospect/Herren, CF - Bourbon, RF - Prospect/MAYBE Cruz, DH - Botts. Of course that all depends on whether or not these guys figure it out fully with each promotion. It also depends on what we would get back from our yard sale.

As far as pitching prospects, well I don't even want to go there. We have Hurley, Kiker, Beaven, Main, Volquez, Diamond, and of course whatever, (hopefully very good), pitching prospects we could get from our yard sale. No telling how anyone will end up pitching though. Supposedly Hurley is going to be a stud pitcher, (of course so was DVD - Danks is gone while Volquez and Diamond aren't really even in our plans anymore). If he is the Ace this team has long needed, he will need some help. MAYBE, MAYBE Kiker and one of the top two draft picks can solidify the number 2/3 spot, (by the way, solidify does not mean go 8-14 with a 5+ era OK Entire Rangers Starting Rotation!!!). Keep drafting pitching and start trading studs for more pitching. Hopefully some of these guys can stick.

Bottom line, if we don't sell everything and field a shitty rebuilding team now, guys will leave for nothing or continue to age and play worse, (Blalock and Young definitely come to mind here, as well as guys like Otsuka and Gagne who are both pitching lights out but aging). Get EVERYTHING you can for the talent we have and prepare to suck for a while but suck with hungry guys that want to play real minutes. Don't promote a bunch of Jamey Wrights and the like that are just guys that know they are going to float. Promote young hungry athletes that want to make a name for themselves. This really is the only way we can turn it around or when our youth does become good our real talent we have now will be leaving their prime or already past it long ago. We are not one or two guys away. I thought maybe coming into the season this year would be different, but it isn't. We need a lot. TRADE TRADE TRADE... ACQUIRE ACQUIRE ACQUIRE... BUILD BUILD BUILD...

Or we could just keep doing what we have been and win 60-80 games every year while going to the playoffs exactly 0 times over the next 10 years while keeping the loyal caring fans only hoping for next year and what could have been.

Murphy3 · 06-11-2007, 01:51 PM

Young stays primarily because he's a bit overpaid and you're likely not to get good enough value to move him.

You don't just trade everyone. You can't. Right now, so many of the guys that you're so willing to trade wouldn't bring enough in value to actually move the guys AND you'd probably get stuck eating part of the contract. To top that off, you can't bring up prospects to fill holes when the prospects aren't there to begin with.

If you want to start the fire sale, you look at moving guys such as Tex, Gagne, Otsuka, and Sosa... You move from there to Cat and Wilk if you can get either of them to hot enough to where they'll have some value before the trading deadline.

As for promoting hungry athletes... there's not much to promote now with the exception of has beens or never have beens. Most of the Rangers talent in their organization is in the high A level at the moment with few exceptions including Hurley...

I do agree that there's no excuse for Botts not being up.... Who gives a rats ass whether or not the guy has a position? I have a feeling that we'll be finding out about him as soon as Sammy's moved though.

Not exactly why you'd want to trade a young Blalock... especially since you'd be getting bottom dollar... I suppose it's just you being pissy and not thinking logically.

jthig32 · 06-11-2007, 01:56 PM

Blalock is probably worth more to us than he would be to anyone else, especially this season, with his injury.

All the people not under contract for next season need to be traded, along with Tex, and feel free to send Aki if he's needed for the right package.

As Murph pointed out, Young stays because he's overpaid, and also because he's the face of the franchise. Your sarting rotation is under contract for several years and a good bet to not bet this bad again.

Hurley should be here next season, if everything conintues as it is.

This team, while playing unbelievably bad baseball right now, isn't necessarily that far away from contending for the division, if the right trades are made.

I'm just preparing myself for the backlash JD is going to receive from the Tex trade. Tex simply isn't going to bring the package a lot of the media thinks he will, and JD will be ripped before we even have a chance to evaluate the trade.

Murphy3 · 06-11-2007, 01:58 PM

Actually, the people that I've spoken with are all more than ready for Tex to be moved... Most of them don't really like the guy for some reason although they know that he's a very good player.

jthig32 · 06-11-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Actually, the people that I've spoken with are all more than ready for Tex to be moved... Most of them don't really like the guy for some reason although they know that he's a very good player.

True, but people overvalue him, I think. Or at least they think a big bat will bring back a big, major leagueh arm, and it's just not the case.

FineCubanCigar · 06-11-2007, 04:40 PM

In 2005, Teixeira became the third switch-hitter in MLB history, after Eddie Murray and Chipper Jones, to hit at least 20 home runs in each of his first three seasons. He also became just the fifth player in Major League history to hit at least 100 home runs in his first three seasons joining Hall of Famers Joe DiMaggio, Ralph Kiner, and Eddie Matthews as well as another current first base star, Albert Pujols. His 2005 total of 144 RBIs is a Major League record for a switch hitter.

Accomplishments
Gold Glove (2005, 2006)
Silver Slugger Award (2005)
All-Star (2005)
Silver Slugger Award (2004)
Player of the Month (July 2004

That will get us High Valued farm talent, period.

Murphy3 · 06-11-2007, 04:59 PM

Tex has the potential to put up astronomical numbers for his career....He might be the best position player on the trade market this year

DOMINATOR · 06-11-2007, 06:31 PM

possible teams for tex?
giants-lotsa young pitching
angels-doubt they trade within division.
D'backs-lotsa young talent
braves-get saltalamacchia plus other prospects
yankees-never rule them out

Male30Dan · 06-11-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Young stays primarily because he's a bit overpaid and you're likely not to get good enough value to move him.

I think you could get a good bit for him. He is a very good 2nd baseman with a slightly overpaid contract. He damn sure doesn't have a Jeter/A Rod contract and he puts up very good numbers normally. He has been absolutely on fire lately too and is now up to .284 after a terrible start to the season. Plus I think you should trade him because he is a great player and great person that wants to win and we just won't be any time soon. If it is a win-win and we can get back good value and put him in a winning environment I would be really happy with the move.

You don't just trade everyone. You can't. Right now, so many of the guys that you're so willing to trade wouldn't bring enough in value to actually move the guys AND you'd probably get stuck eating part of the contract. To top that off, you can't bring up prospects to fill holes when the prospects aren't there to begin with.

As far as being "so willing to trade" all these guys, well, we suck. Get what you can now while you can and start a full rebuilding mode. Don't keep half of the guys that you could get good/average value for only to let them walk when their contract is up or cut them when they stop producing, (that has already happened with some of these bums).

If you want to start the fire sale, you look at moving guys such as Tex, Gagne, Otsuka, and Sosa... You move from there to Cat and Wilk if you can get either of them to hot enough to where they'll have some value before the trading deadline.

I said to trade Young, Tex, Blalock, Sosa, Cat, Wilk, Laird, Millwood, Padilla, Otsuka, and Gagne. You say to trade Tex, Gagne, Otsuka, Sosa, Cat, Wilk. The difference is Blalock, Young, Laird, Millwood and Padilla. I obviously see reason to keep Laird as Teagarden might be another full year from coming up; however, I just can't see why you would let Blalock, Young, Millwood and Padilla stay on this club another year only to age further and decline further.

We aren't winning SHIT... NADA... NOTHING... with these guys, so trade them while they still have SOME value and get some more players in Triple A that WOULD be able to step into roles here. If not Triple A guys ready for big league time in a rebuilding organization, than younger guys that can contribute in a couple of years. Why waste the opportunity to get better in the future by hanging onto guys that won't do shit for you now??? I just don't get that.

Enter full rebuilding mode and trade the guys that a seller would want that might think they are one #4 pitcher away from the playoffs. Maybe they move a guy that is blocked by their star 1st baseman but could get time here after a Tex trade, (no team or real example, just making a point). Would you rather do that or do the shit we have been doing. Don't enter half-rebuilding mode and try to pull that WELL, WE ARE CUTTING THE MAIN COUPLE OF GUYS BUT WE WANT TO STILL WIN mentality. Pull a Florida Marlins and hope it brings you a championship like it did for them after they won their first title.

As for promoting hungry athletes... there's not much to promote now with the exception of has beens or never have beens. Most of the Rangers talent in their organization is in the high A level at the moment with few exceptions including Hurley...

For now, maybe you are right, but don't you realize that we would be getting a lot of prospects back too? Surely you could see that out of all of those trades we would be able to get a few guys that meet that criteria. Oh, and we have a good bit of talent in double A too IMO. We just don't have many guys on the cusp of greatness in the major league level. But I didn't say we did. I said promote guys that are young hungry athletes.

Obviously the entire team can't be like this and every single position won't meet this criteria, but if 5-7 could be then go for it. I am just so sick of a guy like Sosa getting Botts' WELL DESERVED playing time. I am tired of Wilkerson getting playing time that Cruz could have, (despite his struggles, I think he should be given a year to fully sink or swim). I am tired of late 30 year olds and even some 40 year olds getting minutes that could be had by younger guys. Trade these guys that just can't get it done here for some that might be able to in a few years.

I would get behind a team that is trying to do this more so than the crap we are putting on the field now. Then when we have a young cheap team that has talent Hicks can come in and spend some money on the few positions that we really need talent at, (where ever the holes our youth couldn't plug are), and we start looking pretty damn interesting. This is how you build a damn team. Not trying to patch a couple of holes every year with old chewed up bubble gum when in reality you have a cracking wall that has been on the cusp of collapsing for a while now.

I do agree that there's no excuse for Botts not being up.... Who gives a rats ass whether or not the guy has a position? I have a feeling that we'll be finding out about him as soon as Sammy's moved though.

He does have a position... DH!!! Even if Sosa can't play the outfield great, we would be much better with his porous defense out there and Botts at DH than we currently are with Wilkerson in the OF and Sosa at DH. I think any sane manager would have seen that by now.

Not exactly why you'd want to trade a young Blalock... especially since you'd be getting bottom dollar... I suppose it's just you being pissy and not thinking logically.

Blalock has fucking sucked for the most part since his one great year. He has consistently gotten worse each year and they should have traded him last summer. Now holding him probably is best until he comes back and proves that he is at least about as good as he was last year. I am so so sick and tired of watching his ignorant ass swing as absolutely hard as he can with that upward swing EVERY SINGLE PITCH only to strike out or pop up over and over again. If only hitting the ball to the warning track could earn you .5 runs this SOB would be league MVP.

Comments in bold above...

Murphy3 · 06-11-2007, 09:48 PM

Young is a mediocre OBP guy with a big contract....not alot of power and not that good defensively. He's probably more valuable as a leader to a young team and to the fan base as a favorite than he is via trade.
Blalock is still young and coming off of two injuries and a couple of mediocre seasons. He's simply not going to bring enough in trade to justify moving him.

Male30Dan · 06-11-2007, 11:20 PM

He gets you 200 hits every year and has pretty much guaranteed you a .310 and up BA for the past 5 years, (he will get there again this year). He doesn't walk much, but when the game is on the line he has been very clutch over the years. His defense is not in the Gold Glove area but he definitely is no slouch there either. With that said, he IS a good leader and has been very vocal in the offseason trying to help acquire talent. He is a good guy and an All-Star 2nd baseman. He will bring enough in a trade to pull the trigger. I don't want him here anyway. He deserves better.

Regarding Blalock, like I said earlier, you probably have to keep him and let him put up numbers again similar to last year or MAYBE, SOMEHOW, the year before, but I still would trade him if you got a good enough offer.

Flip41 · 06-13-2007, 12:33 PM

At least we won't see the Rangers sign Chan Ho Park like the Astros.

Five-ofan · 06-13-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

He gets you 200 hits every year and has pretty much guaranteed you a .310 and up BA for the past 5 years, (he will get there again this year). He doesn't walk much, but when the game is on the line he has been very clutch over the years. His defense is not in the Gold Glove area but he definitely is no slouch there either. With that said, he IS a good leader and has been very vocal in the offseason trying to help acquire talent. He is a good guy and an All-Star 2nd baseman. He will bring enough in a trade to pull the trigger. I don't want him here anyway. He deserves better.

Regarding Blalock, like I said earlier, you probably have to keep him and let him put up numbers again similar to last year or MAYBE, SOMEHOW, the year before, but I still would trade him if you got a good enough offer.

I like young alot but he is much like ichiro a product of americas over infatuation with ba which is not as important as some think(though more important than some pure obp guys think) Young is a good but not great hitter with very little defensive range. Hes never had an ops(the best measure of a hitter over 900 and hes never hadan 850 ops outside of his career year. hes a career 793 ops guy. the problem is that he flat out doesnt walk. its no coincidence that his career year was the year he had the most walks in about 40 fewer abs thanthe two years sandwiched around it. Hes a good player but hes not the great player many rangers fans think he is. Hes a borderline top 10 ss in baseball. He is however a top 5 (easily) second basemen.

DOMINATOR · 06-13-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flip41

At least we won't see the Rangers sign Chan Ho Park like the Astros.

minor league deal = no risk

Five-ofan · 06-13-2007, 03:09 PM

One thing on the young debate im curious to see where you would rank him out of this group of guys Dan,

Reyes
Jeter
Tejada
Ramirez
Furcal
Guillen
Rollins

I honestly dont think hes better than any of those guys though there is an argument to be made for him being better than rollins and maybe furcal.

FineCubanCigar · 06-13-2007, 04:04 PM

don't look now but McCarthy's ERA since april is well under 2.95 ...

J.D. may have actually done the right thing. more on five-ofans list later.

FineCubanCigar · 06-13-2007, 04:22 PM

Jeter career averages per 162 games

Year AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OBP SLG OPS AVG
Career 655 123 208 34 5 17 83 68 113 24 .389 .463 .852 .317

Reyes

Year TM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS AVG
Career 682 113 196 31 16 11 69 44 85 61 15 .331 .430 .761 .288

Tejeda
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS AVG
Career 632 99 181 36 2 27 107 48 88 7 3 .343 .477 .820 .287

Guillen
Year AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS AVG
Career 577 95 167 33 7 14 80 62 99 10 6 .359 .446 .805 .290

Young
Year AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS AVG
Career 660 100 197 37 7 16 86 45 104 9 3 .343 .450 .793 .299

Conclusion: out of the guys u don/t think he is better than,

He has a higher BA than all but Jeter, 3rd in runs, 2nd in hits, the most doubles, second in triples, 3rd in home runs, second in RBI, 3rd in OBP, 3rd in slugging %, 3rd in ops, second in BA. So out of five all stars.... he finish last in exactly non of the categories and is smack dab in the middle or above in all the major stats.

There is your answer. He is as good if not better than most of those players. Not to mention he is the face of the franchise and a stand up guy.

Having that said I am all for trading him for farm talent, Tom Hicks doesn't deserve him.

Murphy3 · 06-13-2007, 05:06 PM

Young is obviously a good player. But, he doesn't have a tremendous amount of range and shouldn't be mistaken for one of the better fielding shortstops in the leauge. Plus, he doesn't do a great job with the OBP portion of his stats... but, he's obviously one of the better hitting shortstops in the game.

Male30Dan · 06-13-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

One thing on the young debate im curious to see where you would rank him out of this group of guys Dan,

Reyes
Jeter
Tejada
Ramirez
Furcal
Guillen
Rollins

I honestly dont think hes better than any of those guys though there is an argument to be made for him being better than rollins and maybe furcal.

He ranks right there with all of them. If you put him at his true position and make a list the list would get much smaller and his average defense would become much better.

Young is getting unde

Male30Dan · 06-13-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

One thing on the young debate im curious to see where you would rank him out of this group of guys Dan,

Reyes
Jeter
Tejada
Ramirez
Furcal
Guillen
Rollins

I honestly dont think hes better than any of those guys though there is an argument to be made for him being better than rollins and maybe furcal.

He ranks right there with all of them. If you put him at his true position and make a list the list would get much smaller and his average defense would become much better.

Young is getting unde

Male30Dan · 06-13-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

One thing on the young debate im curious to see where you would rank him out of this group of guys Dan,

Reyes
Jeter
Tejada
Ramirez
Furcal
Guillen
Rollins

I honestly dont think hes better than any of those guys though there is an argument to be made for him being better than rollins and maybe furcal.

He ranks right there with all of them. If you put him at his true position and make a list the list would get much smaller and his average defense would become much better.

Young is getting unde

Male30Dan · 06-13-2007, 07:02 PM

My system restarted and made me post three times. I was going to say that Young is getter underrated on this board.

DOMINATOR · 06-13-2007, 11:14 PM

Reyes, Jeter and maybe Ramirez because he's young... are the only guys i would take over young. even though Jeter is defensively way overrated.

Five-ofan · 06-14-2007, 02:56 PM

reyes, jeter and ramirez are CLEARLY better players than young so ill leave them out. Tejada is also clearly better imo but hes not exactly a wizard with the glove either and his drop in power over the last couple of years is astonishing. I think reyes, jeter and ramirez are the first tier of shortstops in baseball with tejada basically having his own tier behind them and then young being in the next tier with rollins, furcal, guillen, and maybe renteria coming in the next tier.

Dan as to moving him back to second base, id rank him pretty much tied for second with brian roberts behind chase utley who is far and away the class of that position.

FineCubanCigar · 06-15-2007, 12:16 PM

the stats don't support your claim five

FineCubanCigar · 06-15-2007, 12:17 PM

and another stat you might want to research is BA with runners in scoring position...

Male30Dan · 06-15-2007, 12:25 PM

Five-O doesn't let something silly like stats get in the way of his "subjective facts", aka his really strong opinions.

Five-ofan · 06-15-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineCubanCigar

the stats don't support your claim five

Jeter and ramirez both have career ops over 50 points higher than youngs along with both(even though yes jeter is overrated defensively) being better than him defensively and much better baserunners. Reyes career numbers are skewed by the fact that he came up SOOOO young. He is 24 years old. For his career, MYs numbers are better but considering reyes' age speed and now at the very least comparable bat, you have to take reyes over young.

FineCubanCigar · 06-15-2007, 04:34 PM

so u admit he is fourth on your list *wink*

FineCubanCigar · 06-15-2007, 04:45 PM

"reyes, jeter and ramirez are CLEARLY better players than young so ill leave them out ..."

You said it not me...

nice to know OPS is the only stat u can use to prove your point and out of all the guys you listed only 2 have a significantly higher percentage... and he averages more hits per game than all but jeter without anything near the protection Jeter has... Lets not forget that fact.

DOMINATOR · 06-15-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineCubanCigar

and he averages more hits per game than all but jeter without anything near the protection Jeter has... Lets not forget that fact.

yeah... itd be interesting to see how young would do in that lineup.

Male30Dan · 06-15-2007, 05:16 PM

Something should be said for his timely hits too. Someone touched on avg. with RISP, but I would also dare to bet that his avg. gets significantly higher as the game goes on, (specifically the 8th and 9th innings). He is very clutch.