Michael Moore makes me want to puke and anyone who sees this trash should be ashamed.

[PlanoJ]

In the end though, this supreme coalition provides 1/5 as many troops total as we (the US) have on the ground. The coaltion does not have UN or Nato backing. In a war that "protected the peoples of the region" only Israel and Kuwait actually supported us while the actual neighbors of Iraq opposed the war. Iran is a long timeIn a war meant to uphold the strength of UN decrees, we defied a UN Security Council ruling that the war was not necessary. We went in to take away stock piles of weapons that have thus far not been found. If there were weapons and if they were being supplied to terrorists, my bet is that they have by this point made it into the black market. We failed to secure Nuclear Power plants before they could be ransacked. I feel that the entire thing was botched from both a diplomatic stance (thus the lack of backing from France, Germany, Russia, etc.) and from a military stand point (still fighting the insurgents).

[dude1394]

What else is new?? How many non-us troops did gulf war I have?? Probably the same if not less. How many did the effort in bosnia have? Afghanistan probably the same.

I assume you mean the people of the region being iran, syria, egypt, libya, lebanon, saudia arabia etc?? What exactly do you expect there as well? Their lack of political freedom and support for terrorism is what in the long run, the iraqi policy is trying to promote freedom in the region.

I don't think we actually "defied" anything, we just carried out security councel resolutions. 1441 and others. Not to mention the first gulf war surrender treaty.

I can agree that we blew it letting looters run amok, HOWEVER the best recourse there would have been to shoot them in the first 3 days or so. But I assume that the "civilized" world would have been a little torqued about that as well. Pretty much a no-win situation there.

As for the WMDs, my opinion is that of David kays'. That sadaam had compartmentalized and created "just-in-time" wmd capabiitlies. Ready to be kicked back into gear as soon as the embargo was lifted. Which the countries you think we should have gotten permission from (france, germany, russia) were doing everything in their power to circumvent, effectively creating a situation where the US had little recourse other than just saying to hell with it as the sanctions were breaking down. Obviously we thought they had wmds and sadaam could have stopped the invasion whenver he wanted to but felt that his allies france, russia, germany and the UN would stop dubya. He must have thought dubya was a democrat or something. He didn't listen very well. Also what exactly did Iraq want with uranium anyway?? Watches?

Hindsight is always easy. The media was talking quagmire after the first week and pronouncing thousands and thousands of casualties, oil wells burning, scuds shot at israel, etc. THOSE things did not happen but others did. Bosnia has been going on for a decade and is still screwed up. I would have liked the us to have put an iraqi face on it much quicker than they did, but wanting it to happen doesn't make it so.

[dude1394]

rogerlsimon
iraqthemodel
All of the michael moore lovers should also be willing to read what real iraqi's say about how "wrong" iraqi freedom was.

While Americans Are At Each Other's Throats Over Iraq....

Omar at IRAQ THE MODEL asks "Was It Legitimate?":

Because Iraqis have a lot to deal with regarding their daily life needs and the fact that we're not a major player in international politics, it becomes understandable that they pay less attention than the rest of the world to the legal complexities of the war and most of them see this war legitimate simply because it lead to their solvation and freedom.

You cannot tell a man that saving him and his family from torture, humiliation and death was a mistake and it should’ve not been done because it's illegal. This is almost an insult to Iraqis to hear someone saying that this war was illegal. It means that our suffering for decades meant nothing and that formalities and the stupid rules of the UN (that rarely function) are more important than the lives of 25 million people.

Read it all. Some day I'd like to go to Iraq and meet these guys. And if they're ever in LA...

[LRB]

To criticize anything you have to know something about it. Yeah Hitler was a nutbar and one of the most evil men on the face of the earth. But I wouldn't know where to begin criticizing Mein Kampf as I haven't read it. MavsFanInDenton is right. You do have to see something to be able to accurately criticize it. Quoting secondary sources without any understanding of the primary source is a falicy all too often duplicated in today's media. One of the leading critics of the movie, Bill O'Reily didn't watch the whole thing. He walked out in the middle of the movie but yet states that the entire thing is a lie. How would he know. Also which parts of it are a lie. I saw the movie and agree that the presentation was slanted but the facts are facts. They were well backed up and checked by fact finders. Explain anything from the movie that was a lie.

I'm sorry that some people are sooooo stupid that they have to stop and taste every dog turd they find to prove that it actually tastes like a dog turd or that it is in fact a dog turd. After all how can you know it's a dog turd with out feeling it, smelling it, and tasting it? [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

Of course I don't have time to sniff, feel, and taste every dog turd I come across to verify that it is indeed a dog turd. In fact when someone tells me to watch my step because there is a fresh dog turd laying about, I step very carefully. I don't give a rat's @$$ whether I'm having to rely on 2nd hand information or not, nor do I care if that person smelled, tasted and felt the dog turd. I have confidence that most people can reconize a dog turd by sight. Strangely enough when I see som brownish material coming out of a dog's butt, I know damn well it's a dog turd. No sense in wasting my time verifying it.

No any movie Michael Moore produces is more likely to be a dog turd than anything else. The man has a history a mile long of lying and misrepresenting the facts. You don't need to see a entire porn movie to know that there is going to be tons on nudity and sex in it. It sure as hell doesn't matter if it's named Bambi, if it's rated XXX it not going be fully of cartoon woodland creatures. Of course you have to rely on a 3rd party to verify this, unless you want to spend all you time and money watching every porn film just to be sure. Hell maybe that's your goal in life.

But I would like to know who these nameless fact checkers are? Bozo the Clown by chance? Maybe the president of the Democratic Party, hell we know how impartial he would be. Of course it doesn't really matter. There is evidence galor that Moore lied. Hell even he doesn't deny it directly in interviews, but refers to it as creatively representing what he believe to be true. Of course he doesn't but that disclaimer along with his movie.

Now I don't have any intention of going and renting "Behind the Green Door" this weekend or anyother time for that matter. I'm really not into porn and I have better uses of my time and money than to watch it. Nor am I going to sit down and read Mein Kampf. Racism is stupid and why waste time and money. Likewise I have no intention of wasting 2 hours of my life to see Moores lies and propaganda. I don't have to go into detail to explain how any thing was a lie in Moore's movies, because others have done such a wonderful job so far. No sense in duplicating their effort. Moore makes claims and you don't need to see the movie to know the claims nor to see the evidence to dispute them. Moore thives on 2 things: promoting his political agenda, and making a specatacle out of himself to promote himself. They are not necessarily in that order.

Now once Moore publicly allied himself with terrorists to promote his work, I saw no point in ever listening to any of his garbage again. If it's true others, including the major news services will pick it up and run stories in their own rights. However there isn't sufficient evidence to support Moore's wild @$$ lies, so this isn't happening.

[Mavdog]

I guess Linda the answer to her question "When will I be loved" is when she stops talking about Moore.
It really wasn't the right place for her to become political, and the crowd probably should have just sat back and listened to her sing rather than becoming hostile.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vegas Casino Boots Singer Linda Ronstadt

LAS VEGAS - Singer Linda Ronstadt (news) not only got booed, she got the boot after lauding filmmaker Michael Moore and his new movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" during a performance at the Aladdin hotel-casino.

Before singing "Desperado" for an encore Saturday night, the 58-year-old rocker called Moore a "great American patriot" and "someone who is spreading the truth." She also encouraged everybody to see the documentary about President Bush (news - web sites).

Ronstadt's comments drew loud boos and some of the 4,500 people in attendance stormed out of the theater. People also tore down concert posters and tossed cocktails into the air.

"It was a very ugly scene," Aladdin President Bill Timmins told The Associated Press. "She praised him and all of a sudden all bedlam broke loose."

Timmins, who is British and was watching the show, decided Ronstadt had to go — for good. Timmins said he didn't allow Ronstadt back in her luxury suite and she was escorted off the property.

Ronstadt's antics "spoiled a wonderful evening for our guests and we had to do something about it," Timmins said.

Timmins said it was the first time he sent a performer packing.

"As long as I'm here, she's not going to play," Timmins said.

Ronstadt had been booked to play the Aladdin for only one show.

Calls to Ronstadt's manager were not immediately returned.

In an interview with the Las Vegas Review-Journal before the show, Ronstadt said "I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back."

Looks like she got her wish.

[LRB]

Linda Ronstadt and all other entertainers should learn as soon as you start messing in politics, expect to get treated like a politician and not an entertainer. As long as she wants to espouse her personal views to those she personally knows it shouldn't be a problem. But using her performance to pump up her political agenda would be like me giving political speeches over the company PA at work. Neither is proper behavior. She should have checked with her employer before stumping for politics while on the job.

[dude1394]

Linda should welcome her customers exercising their free speech priviledges, just like she did. I need to head to the Aladdin Hotel-Casino..