2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Chad Ford: Donnie wanted Saddiq Bey. Bob overruled him and wanted Green.

Sounds like another Giannis move where Donnie was left looking foolish while we made the wrong move.

But that's exactly why he needed to go. If he isn't making decisions, then he has no role anymore. I'm happy that he had a brain to draft the most obvious choice in the history of our drafting, but it means little if nobody is listening to you.

Sad that we are still likely employing sideshow bob.

[JustJay]

It gets harder to root for this team every year and make no mistake I have LOVED THE DALLAS MAVERICKS SINCE 1988. I was 7 years old watching them face the Lakers in the WCF. But I hate Cuban more every day, and this Bob guy has too much power and if he's staying he's probably not going to lose any.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But that's exactly why he needed to go. If he isn't making decisions, then he has no role anymore. I'm happy that he had a brain to draft the most obvious choice in the history of our drafting, but it means little if nobody is listening to you.

Sad that we are still likely employing sideshow bob.

The issue isn't him not making decisions the issue is that Cuban allowed someone to come in and make decisions like that and override him. Cuban is responsible for that crap.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

The issue isn't him not making decisions the issue is that Cuban allowed someone to come in and make decisions like that and override him. Cuban is responsible for that crap.

That's fine. Cuban isn't going anywhere. Next best thing is to have a GM with some balls who can tell Cuban no.

[BPo001]

Not necessarily Mavs related, but I know a few members here have mentioned his name.

How do you weigh your time in New York when deciding your future with several other teams trying to sign you? Nerlens Noel: I’ll weigh it simply off how I can further my career and be best utilized in a system both offensively and defensively, and help that team get to the next step, and myself as well. Collectively, reaching the playoffs. My individual goal, which is more team orientated, is going deeper into the playoffs. I haven’t been to the second round yet, so I want to crack through. Whether it’s a team that has or hasn’t been to the playoffs, I just want to help the team overall with my playing style and wreaking havoc defensively and catching lobs. It’s about finding the right fit. Guard play that can help a big man excel. Small things like that I think will be an ideal fit.

[BPo001]

Not necessarily Mavs related, but I know a few members here have mentioned his name.

How do you weigh your time in New York when deciding your future with several other teams trying to sign you? Nerlens Noel: I’ll weigh it simply off how I can further my career and be best utilized in a system both offensively and defensively, and help that team get to the next step, and myself as well. Collectively, reaching the playoffs. My individual goal, which is more team orientated, is going deeper into the playoffs. I haven’t been to the second round yet, so I want to crack through. Whether it’s a team that has or hasn’t been to the playoffs, I just want to help the team overall with my playing style and wreaking havoc defensively and catching lobs. It’s about finding the right fit. Guard play that can help a big man excel. Small things like that I think will be an ideal fit.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That's fine. Cuban isn't going anywhere. Next best thing is to have a GM with some balls who can tell Cuban no.

That's the issue....Cuban would never hire someone that would do that lol.

[BPo001]

Brad Townsend: Interesting: Mark Cuban says on @dfwticket that Nico Harrison had to give 2-week notice at Nike. Cuban said he respected that Harrison felt obligated to finish the job so to speak. That certainly helps explain the 17-day delay in hiring Harrison and the into press conference. 2 hours ago – via Twitter townbrad

[BPo001]

Brad Townsend: Interesting: Mark Cuban says on @dfwticket that Nico Harrison had to give 2-week notice at Nike. Cuban said he respected that Harrison felt obligated to finish the job so to speak. That certainly helps explain the 17-day delay in hiring Harrison and the into press conference. 2 hours ago – via Twitter townbrad

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Chad Ford: Donnie wanted Saddiq Bey. Bob overruled him and wanted Green.

Sounds like another Giannis move where Donnie was left looking foolish while we made the wrong move.

Donnie never looked foolish with either move, because we all knew neither was his decision. Donnie looked foolish, when he wanted to draft Pavel, and Don was like wtf? Lol no.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Brad Townsend: Interesting: Mark Cuban says on @dfwticket that Nico Harrison had to give 2-week notice at Nike. Cuban said he respected that Harrison felt obligated to finish the job so to speak. That certainly helps explain the 17-day delay in hiring Harrison and the into press conference. 2 hours ago – via Twitter townbrad

The hr division at Nike was like, “dude, just leave. We are a corporation. We fire people by text, and deactivate their entry cards.”

[Skywalker]

Some very interesting stuff here about Kidd's coaching style

Kidd was known for playing mind games. He wouldn’t yell; he wouldn’t act overly aggressive. Far from that. He was more delicate, soft-spoken, getting under someone’s skin, knowing the thing that made each player explode. He never gave players answers, wanting them to figure it out on their own.

His coaching style with the Nets, and then with the Bucks, was described as “psychological warfare” by one former player. When asked about Kidd, players and coaches often say, “On the record or off?” Kidd was loved, hated. His coaching style was described as follows:

“Jedi mind tricks,” Oppenheimer says.

“Mind fucks,” says one former teammate, a bit more bluntly.

“Machiavellian,” says a former Bucks staffer. “He kind of relished that combativeness in people.”

But also: “He’s a winner. Naturally a winner. He’s a competitive motherfucker,” says Chris Copeland, Bucks forward from 2015 to 2016. He played with Kidd on the Knicks in 2012-13.

“He’d just brutalize people,” says another ex-player. “There’s plenty of teammates that I had that didn’t like him, not even as a coach, like as a person. He’d pit people against each other.”

“I think he may have had rocky relationships with a lot of players,” says Johnny O’Bryant III, Bucks forward from 2014 to 2016. “But one thing he did was he laid the tradition of a winning team. Sometimes the way he went about it, being straightforward, he was just an asshole, but I think it paid off in the long run.”

“I’d never call Jason Kidd an asshole,” says Nicholas Turner, Kidd’s executive assistant from 2014 to 2018, “but he was a player too, so he also has an ego. ... There’s definitely some things that people misunderstand about J-Kidd. Ultimately he wants to win. He has good intentions.”

There was also a cerebral aspect to Kidd. “He was like a professor,” says Jason Terry, Bucks guard from 2016 to 2018, who also played for Kidd in Brooklyn in 2013-14. “Instead of telling you what to do, he engages you, empowers you, by asking, ‘What do you see?’”

“Jason had a brilliant mind,” says Nixon Dorvilien, Bucks assistant trainer from 2014 to 2016, “but he kind of made you uncomfortable around him.”

“When players go through it and it’s uncomfortable, they like to say, ‘He’s playing mind games with me,’ but it’s not that,” says Greg Foster, Bucks assistant coach from 2014 to 2018, now with the Pacers. “He’s trying to get you to do something you wouldn’t normally do. That’s coaching.”

Knight searches for the right words. “I don’t want to sound negative,” he says. Knight explains some of Kidd’s methods, such as how Kidd would embarrass the culprit of an error by making everyone but that person run sprints for his mistake. “He just had his way of getting his point across,” Knight says.

Little things were made to be a big deal: At one point center Thon Maker didn’t have an iPhone, messing up the team’s blue-bubble iPhone group chat. Kidd was upset about it and made the team run because Kidd felt that Maker not getting an iPhone was an example of the team not being united.

But there was another side to Kidd, one that held players accountable, gave them confidence, raised the level of play. If players were doing the drill wrong, Kidd would grab the ball and hop in the drill and show players how to do it perfectly. Kidd would sometimes dominate and say, “Guys, this isn’t that fucking hard!”

Kidd hated when players were not on time. Or when he had to go over something again. He was a perfectionist—and thought players should get it right the first time. He had this look, this death stare, that was piercing.

His mind was several steps ahead. The things he saw, few could. “It was like being around Einstein,” Oppenheimer says. “Giannis realized that and wanted information, and Jason found a way to feed him information.”

Kidd poured hours into helping Giannis but was less sympathetic with other players. “I don’t think he could identify with the average player,” says another ex-player. “There’s a reason Hall of Famers are Hall of Famers, especially point guards. You see things that no one else does. I think he would just take it out on players and just verbally go at them. Just make them feel like shit, that they couldn’t be as good as Jason Kidd, who could just step on the floor and do this fancy thing.”

Kidd would ask Giannis to explain what he did wrong during film sessions. There was no right answer, but a nod wasn’t acceptable. He had to say his mistake out loud. That was difficult for Giannis, who wasn’t a vocal player. Though gregarious off the court, he was still quiet on the court, still trying to fit in. He hated speaking up on the floor. He’d rather show leadership through action, through work ethic.

Kidd pulled Giannis out of his comfort zone by pointing out flaws verbally, seeing how Giannis would respond. It was part of Kidd’s plan to transform his new project into a point guard. For point guards, talking is like breathing—instinctive, necessary. Because in Kidd’s eyes, Giannis could be that point guard. He could become a superstar.

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/21/...mprobable-rise

[Skywalker]

.

[saclare]

Giannis endorsed Kidd, that's good enough for me. All else is just noise. Especially from guys on the end of the bench I have never heard of. And a lot of that suggests he didn't learn from previous perceived mistakes and hasn't adjusted his style, especially when it comes to player relationships from superstar to the last guy on the bench. I'm looking forward to seeing Kidd prove a lot of doubters, and haters, wrong. I want him to be in sync with Luka just as much as the young guys and back of the roster types.

[saclare]

Giannis endorsed Kidd, that's good enough for me. All else is just noise. Especially from guys on the end of the bench I have never heard of. And a lot of that suggests he didn't learn from previous perceived mistakes and hasn't adjusted his style, especially when it comes to player relationships from superstar to the last guy on the bench. I'm looking forward to seeing Kidd prove a lot of doubters, and haters, wrong. I want him to be in sync with Luka just as much as the young guys and back of the roster types.

[Jack.Kerr]

So, they changed a curmudgeon for an asshole.

Not sure Luca is thick-skinned or tough-minded enough for Kidd's style of coaching. So could be interesting. Maybe just the kick in the pants that Luca needs. But certainly understand the legitimate concern that Luca may be too high-strung and too tightly-wound for it.

Only one way to find out.

Maybe it'll work for Porzingis too, for that matter; he may need someone who will motivate him to be more assertive, and not just accept ill-conceived systems and self-interested teammates.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

So, they changed a curmudgeon for an asshole.

Not sure Luca is thick-skinned or tough-minded enough for Kidd's style of coaching. So could be interesting. Maybe just the kick in the pants that Luca needs. But certainly understand the legitimate concern that Luca may be too high-strung and too tightly-wound for it.

Only one way to find out.

Maybe it'll work for Porzingis too, for that matter; he may need someone who will motivate him to be more assertive, and not just accept ill-conceived systems and self-interested teammates.

Most accounts from his Euro experience is that Luka with a k is very tough minded and thick skinned. He is very self critiquing in post game interviews saying stuff like he lost the game or didn't play well. It is actually KP that constantly deflects and places passive aggressive blame on the world. Let's see what happens. I think J Kidd, Nico and Luka triumvirate will eventually be successful

[turin]

Kidd sounds passive aggressive. I give him 2-3 years tops.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Chad Ford: Donnie wanted Saddiq Bey. Bob overruled him and wanted Green.

Sounds like another Giannis move where Donnie was left looking foolish while we made the wrong move.

Stopped reading at Chad Ford.

[Melonhead]

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/21/...mprobable-rise

It’s really hard to get excited for Kidd. We can only hope he’s grown but he sounds like a flat out asshole for a coach besides being nice to his star Giannis.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/21/...mprobable-rise

It’s really hard to get excited for Kidd. We can only hope he’s grown but he sounds like a flat out asshole for a coach besides being nice to his star Giannis.

Luka obviously doesn't need Kidd to teach him lessons in swagger or scowls, and a feather doesn't blow him over.

[FreshJive]

This is just a Thursday morning thought, but I'm legit scared that the Nelsons were the people responsible for all of the Mavs success post 2000.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

This is just a Thursday morning thought, but I'm legit scared that the Nelsons were the people responsible for all of the Mavs success post 2000.

Na it was Dirk.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

It’s really hard to get excited for Kidd. We can only hope he’s grown but he sounds like a flat out asshole for a coach besides being nice to his star Giannis.

Whatever kind of asshole Kidd might be, he will be an amateur compared to Carlisle

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Na it was Dirk.

He was only in Dallas because of one of the Nelsons, depending on who you credit. I credit Sr., but others will give it to Jr. I know Sr also drafted Curry.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by MFFL

Whatever kind of asshole Kidd might be, he will be an amateur compared to Carlisle

Not only that, but I could care less if a coach is a superstar's best friend. Stars need to be managed ala Phil Jackson. Let the assistant coaches chum around with them.

I just get so tired of this dog shit that we're all supposed to feel bad about the Mavericks. It's just such modern woke social media bs that I'm not going to cater to. This is mostly a response to twitter in which everything is doom and gloom all the time.

Anyone who openly roots for Kidd and the Mavs to fail should just turn in their MFFL card right now. So dumb.

[Robillion]

Fans are always going to be caught up on and negative something. During Carlisle's tenure, I've been optimistic, but I was starting to lose hope that the Mavs would be anything more than a perpetual treadmill team.

It really seems to me though that Kidd really needed to learn some lessons on how to turn from a savant player to a good coach. I can see how that would require some adjusting. And I can see how his humbling of his first two coaching stints + a year off + all the shit he has taken about his past and how he has dealt with it + experience with Vogel and Lebron + coming back to coach with the org that drafted him and he won a championship with is all likely to = him approaching this opportunity with sincere mindfullness and tact and increased wisdom to pair with his BBIQ. He wants to do this one right and bring championships to Dallas to fulfill a complete legacy with the Mavs. For these reasons, I believe Kidd was a good choice.

The other reason I am excited is because, it was painfully obvious to me the Mavs were going to remain a treadmill team under Carlisle and Nelson. Carlisle gets wayyy too much credit for "taking scrubs to the playoffs". Dirk and Luka took scrubs to the playoffs. And, if the Mavs had a coach that would fully leverage the talent (KP, Green, Curry, at hand and put them in a position to be successful and develop them more, the Mavs wouldn't be getting out in the first round every time they are in the playoffs. Under Carlisle, you either played his way and fit into his system or you were in the dog house, regardless of your strengths/weaknesses. There was no maximizing players strengths or developing weaknesses. There was only analytics and system and fake "always be ready" motivation... And Nelson, well, who isn't more confident that Nico will be able to connect better with players today. Nelson became ineffective when he became a lame duck in the head office. That has to be partially his fault.

A new coach that will actually work with each player to make them better and maximize them on the floor.. I'd rather have that than an Xs and Os adjustments guru in today's NBA, especially when Carlisle evidently decided to believe more in historical analytics than in the future potential of his players.

[Robillion]

Edit: what is up with all the double posts lately?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Not only that, but I could care less if a coach is a superstar's best friend. Stars need to be managed ala Phil Jackson. Let the assistant coaches chum around with them.

I just get so tired of this dog shit that we're all supposed to feel bad about the Mavericks. It's just such modern woke social media bs that I'm not going to cater to. This is mostly a response to twitter in which everything is doom and gloom all the time.

Anyone who openly roots for Kidd and the Mavs to fail should just turn in their MFFL card right now. So dumb.

Thumbs up

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Robillion

Fans are always going to be caught up on and negative something. During Carlisle's tenure, I've been optimistic, but I was starting to lose hope that the Mavs would be anything more than a perpetual treadmill team.

It really seems to me though that Kidd really needed to learn some lessons on how to turn from a savant player to a good coach. I can see how that would require some adjusting. And I can see how his humbling of his first two coaching stints + a year off + all the shit he has taken about his past and how he has dealt with it + experience with Vogel and Lebron + coming back to coach with the org that drafted him and he won a championship with is all likely to = him approaching this opportunity with sincere mindfullness and tact and increased wisdom to pair with his BBIQ. He wants to do this one right and bring championships to Dallas to fulfill a complete legacy with the Mavs. For these reasons, I believe Kidd was a good choice.

The other reason I am excited is because, it was painfully obvious to me the Mavs were going to remain a treadmill team under Carlisle and Nelson. Carlisle gets wayyy too much credit for "taking scrubs to the playoffs". Dirk and Luka took scrubs to the playoffs. And, if the Mavs had a coach that would fully leverage the talent (KP, Green, Curry, at hand and put them in a position to be successful and develop them more, the Mavs wouldn't be getting out in the first round every time they are in the playoffs. Under Carlisle, you either played his way and fit into his system or you were in the dog house, regardless of your strengths/weaknesses. There was no maximizing players strengths or developing weaknesses. There was only analytics and system and fake "always be ready" motivation... And Nelson, well, who isn't more confident that Nico will be able to connect better with players today. Nelson became ineffective when he became a lame duck in the head office. That has to be partially his fault.

A new coach that will actually work with each player to make them better and maximize them on the floor.. I'd rather have that than an Xs and Os adjustments guru in today's NBA, especially when Carlisle evidently decided to believe more in historical analytics than in the future potential of his players.

This place needs your wisdom more often. +rep

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Not only that, but I could care less if a coach is a superstar's best friend. Stars need to be managed ala Phil Jackson. Let the assistant coaches chum around with them.

I just get so tired of this dog shit that we're all supposed to feel bad about the Mavericks. It's just such modern woke social media bs that I'm not going to cater to. This is mostly a response to twitter in which everything is doom and gloom all the time.

Anyone who openly roots for Kidd and the Mavs to fail should just turn in their MFFL card right now. So dumb.

I can't say that....I personally am rooting for Kidd. But if someone wants him to fail because they don't like for whatever reason whether it be his past domestic issues whatever I can't say they're dumb for that.

Fans are frustrated and rightfully so. I admit that I'm frustrated but not to the extent of rooting against them. I can live with a organization that's ran well but fails. I'd be pisse but it happens.....at the end of the day there is only one winner.

[sig]

I also wanted to draft Bey but I wouldn't write off Green. I think he did what was asked of him. I think JET was high on him and hopefully JET will join Kidd at some point.

https://www.mavs.com/terryinfluence/

Actually, the more I watched Green the more like what they have in him. He didn't have the luxury to play consistent minutes for a team that racked up losses on their way to tanking for the top pick. I doubt that RC would of played Bey any more than Green.

I like Jason Kidd. I think Kidd got good marks for his work in Milwaukee with young players. Obviously he is a downgrade from a HOF coach like RC but I look forward to Kidd actually playing young guys more and developing them. RC just had no patience and likes his vets. 13 years and 21 years for RC and donnie is a long run. I'm sure dealing with Cuban gets old. I hate to see RC go as he is one of my all time favorite coaches but if Kidd is successful adding JJ, JET and maybe Chandler to his staff, I'm excited about the new direction. Obviously, you replace the safe feeling of stability tht donnie and RC brought with some nervousness with a group of younger coaches. Actually I'm more worried about trades than Kidd coaching.

[sig]

Sorry for double post

[turin]

Originally Posted by MFFL

Whatever kind of asshole Kidd might be, he will be an amateur compared to Carlisle

Truth

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Robillion

Fans are always going to be caught up on and negative something. During Carlisle's tenure, I've been optimistic, but I was starting to lose hope that the Mavs would be anything more than a perpetual treadmill team.

It really seems to me though that Kidd really needed to learn some lessons on how to turn from a savant player to a good coach. I can see how that would require some adjusting. And I can see how his humbling of his first two coaching stints + a year off + all the shit he has taken about his past and how he has dealt with it + experience with Vogel and Lebron + coming back to coach with the org that drafted him and he won a championship with is all likely to = him approaching this opportunity with sincere mindfullness and tact and increased wisdom to pair with his BBIQ. He wants to do this one right and bring championships to Dallas to fulfill a complete legacy with the Mavs. For these reasons, I believe Kidd was a good choice.

The other reason I am excited is because, it was painfully obvious to me the Mavs were going to remain a treadmill team under Carlisle and Nelson. Carlisle gets wayyy too much credit for "taking scrubs to the playoffs". Dirk and Luka took scrubs to the playoffs. And, if the Mavs had a coach that would fully leverage the talent (KP, Green, Curry, at hand and put them in a position to be successful and develop them more, the Mavs wouldn't be getting out in the first round every time they are in the playoffs. Under Carlisle, you either played his way and fit into his system or you were in the dog house, regardless of your strengths/weaknesses. There was no maximizing players strengths or developing weaknesses. There was only analytics and system and fake "always be ready" motivation... And Nelson, well, who isn't more confident that Nico will be able to connect better with players today. Nelson became ineffective when he became a lame duck in the head office. That has to be partially his fault.

A new coach that will actually work with each player to make them better and maximize them on the floor.. I'd rather have that than an Xs and Os adjustments guru in today's NBA, especially when Carlisle evidently decided to believe more in historical analytics than in the future potential of his players.

Excellent post

There have a been fans on here who have voiced their displeasure with RC for the last few years.

I got sick of hearing how he was top 5 coach in the NBA and the talent level always kept him from getting out of the 1st round of the playoffs.

Dude had more rope on here than any other coach in the NBA

It was time for the Mavs to move on from him ASAP....

And it finally happened thanks to Luka

[NeedlesKane]

I kinda wish they'd get MVP for the playoffs instead of one series. Curry was likely their best player during the regular season the year AI won. Then he was also likely their best player during the playoff rounds that got them to the NBA Finals. Then AI shined during the Finals to win Finals MVP. All a quality player has to do is shine during those 4 to 7 games that count the most. Curry could have been the best player in up to the previous 103 games (had they needed to go the distance in the first 3 playoff rounds) and even at least 1 game during the NBA Finals. However, since AI was the best or most important player in the majority of a single series... he wins MVP? Yeah, not a fan of that award. That being said... at least Dirk won it! For a while I thought JET deserved it.

[mac222b]

Man, I hope Kidd has grown-up since then. That is some incredibly dumb, immature shit detailed in that piece. Would expect that kind of stuff more from a high school football coach trying to recapture past glory than the leader of a billion dollar franchise.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by saclare

Giannis endorsed Kidd, that's good enough for me. All else is just noise. Especially from guys on the end of the bench I have never heard of. And a lot of that suggests he didn't learn from previous perceived mistakes and hasn't adjusted his style, especially when it comes to player relationships from superstar to the last guy on the bench. I'm looking forward to seeing Kidd prove a lot of doubters, and haters, wrong. I want him to be in sync with Luka just as much as the young guys and back of the roster types.

I tend to think just the opposite actually. Of course Giannis is going to have a more favorable impression; even then he was the franchise meal ticket. The way the scrubs are treated tells you more about the person. Humiliating someone publicly under the guise of “team building” is just immature and disingenuous behavior. A lot of end of the bench guys wind up coaches and GMs in the league too and their experiences are equally valid.

[SMC0007]

I think Kidd is in deep waters. I'm not convinced he has what it takes but I'm pulling for him. If the deal gets completed for Igor as assistant it softens the blow if Kidd doesn't work out for some reason. The coaches have room to grow with the team and there's actually talent and potential here to help that.

Reading some stuff about Igor in Phx, it appears leadership via connection with the players was a bit lacking. It's understandable since he was foreign and the roster was young and inexperienced. I thought this article was fun to read and relate to our situation.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bri...-igor-kokoskov

[SMC0007]

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