jasonterryneedstostart

[mary]

JET had his best game as a MAVs PG today with 11 assists, 13 points, 4 steals and just 1 TO. His perimeter shooting has been a surprise to me and is something we lost in Nash.

Harris on the other hand, has been yanked early in five of his eight starts, averages just over 2 APG, hasn't had a good outside shot, and doesn't take care of the ball as well as Terry. I want to see the kid get minutes, but if you're going to yank him every game anyway, then why not start out with your best option at PG - which right now is clearly Jason Terry.

[Mandyahl]

on that note, there is no reason that marquis needs to play minutes at the point, especially with finley out. we have two more than competent point guards in harris and terry, so we don't need to force a natural shooting guard to play out of position there.

[endtroducing]

he's a natural SF, if you're keeping score

[fin4life]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
he's a natural SF, if you're keeping score

He is a natural SG

[grndmstr_c]

Daniels' best position is at SG.

And I didn't get to watch the game, but very nice job by JT with the 11 assists and one TO. And the thread title made me laugh, Mary.

[FilthyFinMavs]

All it takes is for Terry to have one good game as a point guard and he needs to start?

[V]

Harris is going to be fine. Check out rookie stats for the player Harris is most often compared to: Kevin Johnson ... through Johnson's first 50 game he averaged approx 20 minutes, 7.3 points, 3.5 assists, 1.4 boards, 1.1 steals.

Through 8 games Harris is averaging 18 minutes, 7.3 points, 2.4 assists, 1.0 boards, 1.7 steals

Over Johnson's next 30 games he averaged 30 minutes, 12.6 points, 8.7 assists, 4.3 boards, 1.5 steals

The next year Kevin Johnson averaged 39 minutes, 20.4 points, 12.2 assists, 4.2 boards, 1.6 steals

Harris just needs time ... and minutes.

[mary]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
All it takes is for Terry to have one good game as a point guard and he needs to start?

No, that's not all it takes.

Harris on the other hand, has been yanked early in five of his eight starts, averages just over 2 APG, hasn't had a good outside shot, and doesn't take care of the ball as well as Terry. I want to see the kid get minutes, but if you're going to yank him every game anyway, then why not start out with your best option at PG - which right now is clearly Jason Terry.

[mary]

Harris just needs time ... and minutes.

Then let's give him time..and minutes. But his starts seem somewhat ceremonial so far.

[rakesh.s]

i'm not sure what the point of starting harris is if you're going to yank him after 10 mins...might as well bench him

don nelson is back to his moronic substitutions again

[dirno2000]

When Nellie made the decision to start Harris, I assumed that it meant he trusted him. I this point I'm not quite sure why the decision was made.

The way Stack is playing, I expect to see Harris get squeezed even more when Finley is healthy.

[grndmstr_c]

don nelson is back to his moronic substitutions again

It hardly makes sense to call the substitution moronic when Terry comes in and goes for 13 and 11 with one TO.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: mary

No, that's not all it takes.

What does starting have to do with it? Starting doesn't determine you get minutes. Stack got 38 minutes tonight coming off the bench.

[V]

Harris is getting the starts ... but the last two matchups have not been favorable to the Mavs. Planinic & Arenas are both big guards who can push Harris around a little. Given time & experience Harris will use quickness to his advantage... but he's not yet a reliable scorer. Nelly's substitutios have been fine IMO. YOu get the rook some experience to start the game & to see if he's effective. If he's not you roll with your bench ... but before long Harris is going to go off on one of those big guards & you'll be glad he got some early experience.

[mary]

Harris is going to be fine. Check out rookie stats for the player Harris is most often compared to: Kevin Johnson ... through Johnson's first 50 game he averaged approx 20 minutes, 7.3 points, 3.5 assists, 1.4 boards, 1.1 on steals.

Kevin Johnson only started 3 games his rookie year. Why can’t Harris get the PT he needs to develop, starting behind a capable veteran PG?

[V]

Originally posted by: mary

Kevin Johnson only started 3 games his rookie year. Why can’t Harris get the PT he needs to develop, starting behind a capable veteran PG?

Damn. Your research skills are better than mine. I guess it's ceremonial. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

[mary]

I wasn't trying to discount your opinion V...just pointing out that KJ developed coming off the bench. No need to be snippy [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[V]

Originally posted by: mary
I wasn't trying to discount your opinion V...just pointing out that KJ developed coming off the bench. No need to be snippy [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Wasn't being snippy ... I was being honest. I can't think of a good reason why Harris needs to start, especially since you pointed out that KJ only started three games his rookie year. Maybe starting Harris IS ceremonial or maybe Terry's attitude helps keep Stackhouse appeased?

[MavKikiNYC]

Harris starting is one Nellie scheme that doesn't particularly bother me.....yet.

I think it's pretty clear that he is the Mavs' future at PG--the question is whether it's sooner or later. I think it's a good opportunity for Harris to learn, and it doesn't seem to be hurting the team yet either. My impression is that they're letting Harris learn at the start of the game, when the score is close, and then remove him if he starts to play poorly, or out-of-control, or if the other team begins to exploit himi.

Harris got pulled early against the Nets at least in part because they were posting the 6.7 Planinic against him. I think Daniels got some minutes at PG yesterday as much for defensive matchup purspose as anything else. (Imagine..... Nellie matching up for defense!)

Terry seems to be playing well within this rotation as well. He comes in fresh, gets to use his fouls over fewer minutes, and will probably get more minutes against either winded starters, or second-teamers.

Based on what I've seen out of Harris so far, I'm comfortable with him getting a chance to prove himself. I think it's a little early to be making a change that's seen as punitive, especially given how successfully they've started. If Harris is still making the same mistakes in January, then it make more sense to re-think the rotation, but for now, I'd say his potential justifies the approach.

Kudos to Terry for a good game today, but to be honest, I haven't seen him setting the world on fire either. If Harris is able to step up and take control of the position, Terry may become a trading chip.

[mary]

What does starting have to do with it? Starting doesn't determine you get minutes. Stack got 38 minutes tonight coming off the bench.

What I'm saying is Harris can get his 18 minutes a game backing up Terry - who at this point in time seems more capable of handling the starting job.

[mary]

maybe Terry's attitude helps keep Stackhouse appeased?

That's a very good point...maybe trying to put some leadership on the bench

[EricaLubarsky]

I agree with you, Mary. Terry is one of our most talented players and a fine defensive specimen. Let him get into a rhythm starting the game. Give Harris his 20mpg in the middle of the game for subs. Terry can have that much more time resting so he can play the full court press even more effectively.

Harris, Daniels, Howard. That starting five is just too young and we will start many games poorly because of the inherent inconsistency of young players. Daniels looks like he needs to get his head on straight again, and Howard looks unhappy, his shot is way off and he isnt playing smart basketball.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Harris starting is one Nellie scheme that doesn't particularly bother me.....yet.

I think it's pretty clear that he is the Mavs' future at PG--the question is whether it's sooner or later. I think it's a good opportunity for Harris to learn, and it doesn't seem to be hurting the team yet either. My impression is that they're letting Harris learn at the start of the game, when the score is close, and then remove him if he starts to play poorly, or out-of-control, or if the other team begins to exploit himi.

Harris got pulled early against the Nets at least in part because they were posting the 6.7 Planinic against him. I think Daniels got some minutes at PG yesterday as much for defensive matchup purspose as anything else. (Imagine..... Nellie matching up for defense!)

Terry seems to be playing well within this rotation as well. He comes in fresh, gets to use his fouls over fewer minutes, and will probably get more minutes against either winded starters, or second-teamers.

Based on what I've seen out of Harris so far, I'm comfortable with him getting a chance to prove himself. I think it's a little early to be making a change that's seen as punitive, especially given how successfully they've started. If Harris is still making the same mistakes in January, then it make more sense to re-think the rotation, but for now, I'd say his potential justifies the approach.

Kudos to Terry for a good game today, but to be honest, I haven't seen him setting the world on fire either. If Harris is able to step up and take control of the position, Terry may become a trading chip.

Imagine nellie getting ragged on for substituting for defense instead of offense. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] And I agree, terry hasn't been lighting it up, he also played pretty crappy in the nj game as well. I think he will have some focus issues to overcome as well.

But if he's in the game at the end he should be fine, that's always the more important spot, now that does bring up a question of stackhouse however...

[orangedays]

I've only got a couple of minor rags on Terry,

1) Every time he's standing at the top of the key getting ready to start the offensive set, he dribbles it like four times between his legs. Granted he's got good handles, but this isn't high school anymore. I've seen more than once where Terry's doing his thing and the opposing PG just lunges in and takes the ball for a layup on the other end.

2) Stop hesitating when you're driving!!! He's being so careful about the turnovers that he's not taking it to the hole like he should be. He always dribbles in a few feet, pauses, then looks to make the exit pass. Take it to the hole, draw the help side defender, then dish it out after you've cleared the lane for the perimeter shot or the dunk.

But I digress as these are definitely things I think he'll fix once he gets more comfortable running the offense. I love what Terry brings to the team and I think it was a really stand-up thing for him to accept the bench role. I absolutely agree that Nellie should start this guy, he's earned it with his sportsmanship and with his play (this guy is proving to be a strong spot-up three-point shooter in the image of a Michael Finley, 46% on the season thus far). Devin Harris is good but he should only be getting 15-18 min. a night coming in to back up Terry, and I see that happening as the season progresses. Devin's good but there are too many instances where he makes rookie mistakes (like 'Quis and Howard last year). Interesting that we've got a rookie and two 2nd years in our starting line-up, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[endtroducing]

Originally posted by: fin4life

He is a natural SG

started four years in college at SF, played SF all through high school...yeah, a natural SF.

ever wonder why has such problems handling the ball and dishing it out on the break? yeah, it's because never really handled the ball until he got into the NBA.

[The Miles]

I totally disagree and am upset about the way Nellie has been using his PGs. Harris was really good in the 3rd quarter today and gets pulled for no reason. Soon after the Mavs find themselves back in a close game due to the fact that the defense drops when Harris out.

But if Nellie is not going to give Devin 30 mpg he might as well stop toying with Devin and bring him off the bench. Terry drives me crazy when he is out there but Nellie seems to like him so make the switch. Somehow they have to give Devin a real role other than being the host of the party before giving way to the entertainment.

For the confidence of our 2nd most talented player, which Devin is, we should bring him off the bench and have him matchup against opposing backup PGs. Not that I agree, I think Devin should be getting 30 mins per game he has done well in his minutes and has no freedom to do what a starting PG should be able to do, but Nellie has his weird ways.

[mary]

1) Every time he's standing at the top of the key getting ready to start the offensive set, he dribbles it like four times between his legs. Granted he's got good handles, but this isn't high school anymore. I've seen more than once where Terry's doing his thing and the opposing PG just lunges in and takes the ball for a layup on the other end.

That does annoy me as well. He's not even that great at it - sometimes his motion is not very fluid when he's dribbling between his legs and it looks like he's having to put too much effort into it. I think if you're doing it correctly, its something you should barely notice.

[SeriousSummer]

Except psychologically, it doesn't matter who starts. JET seems happy coming off the bench. The Mavs are winning. No need to change. You need to trust that the coaches are in a better position to judge who starting helps most with their confidence.

[endtroducing]

Originally posted by: The Miles
I totally disagree and am upset about the way Nellie has been using his PGs. Harris was really good in the 3rd quarter today and gets pulled for no reason. Soon after the Mavs find themselves back in a close game due to the fact that the defense drops when Harris out.

But if Nellie is not going to give Devin 30 mpg he might as well stop toying with Devin and bring him off the bench. Terry drives me crazy when he is out there but Nellie seems to like him so make the switch. Somehow they have to give Devin a real role other than being the host of the party before giving way to the entertainment.

For the confidence of our 2nd most talented player, which Devin is, we should bring him off the bench and have him matchup against opposing backup PGs. Not that I agree, I think Devin should be getting 30 mins per game he has done well in his minutes and has no freedom to do what a starting PG should be able to do, but Nellie has his weird ways.

Jason Terry is better than Devin Harris. JT won a national title, won player of the year, and was MVP of the Final Four. he's been a consistant 15 ppg+ player his whole career. he has been in top 10 in assists before. he's the most durable player in the entire league. Harris is none of this. he could be, one day, but right now...he's not. and he doesn't deserve the start over a guy like Terry. Harris is maybe the 5th or 6th most talented player on the team.

you're not arguing that he's better, are you?

[orangedays]

Originally posted by: SeriousSummer
Except psychologically, it doesn't matter who starts. JET seems happy coming off the bench. The Mavs are winning. No need to change. You need to trust that the coaches are in a better position to judge who starting helps most with their confidence.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that the coaches are in a better position to decide. But I mean, all these guys are NBA players and regardless of how great their attitudes are now, I have a hard time imagining that JT will continue to be happy if Nellie keeps him coming off the bench for the rest of the season, especially if Devin doesn't make serious progress. I mean, Antawn seemed happy coming off the bench at the beginning of last season too remember? But by the end of the year you could tell he was sitting on the bench simmering...I have my worries about Stack too but hopefully these guys will be able to swallow their egos, remember that Cuban is shelling out some serious dough, and that we have a very real shot at a championship if they just sit back and play ball (no pun intended).

[mercury_rev]

I'm not too concerned about Terry's attitude as long as the Mavs keep winning. He tasted championship ball with 'Zona and after suffering in the basketball necropolis that is Atlanta, looks like he's hungry for a reminder of what winning's like.

[orangedays]

Originally posted by: mercury_rev
I'm not too concerned about Terry's attitude as long as the Mavs keep winning. He tasted championship ball with 'Zona and after suffering in the basketball necropolis that is Atlanta, looks like he's hungry for a reminder of what winning's like.

We were winning last year but we still had trouble with Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison, Danny Fortson simmering over playing time. Up until this point all the players have had the opportunity to contribute but Nellie has to take a page from Rudy T and learn to play a little bit to his player's egos.

[mercury_rev]

From what I know, JT seems like a team player, unlike Antoine "I need to chuck up 20 shots a game to find my rhythm" Walker. I can't speculate about how much Antawn may have been simmering last season, but I suspect he was somewhat frustrated by Nellie's "let's make Walker a point forward even though it's painfully evident that it's not working" experiment. Jamison deserved to start more than Walker. As for Fortson being frustrated, well, who gives a rat's ass? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[sike]

7-1.

Go with what works.

who's to say that playing Terry in the spots Nellie has been is not the exact best spot for Terry and this team? He seems to have adapted wonderfully and is always a genuine spark off the bench. Being on the court at the tip may not be as important as being there at the end of the first quarter...as long as its working and both players are progressing...don't screw it up.

[orangedays]

Originally posted by: mercury_rev
From what I know, JT seems like a team player, unlike Antoine "I need to chuck up 20 shots a game to find my rhythm" Walker. I can't speculate about how much Antawn may have been simmering last season, but I suspect he was somewhat frustrated by Nellie's "let's make Walker a point forward even though it's painfully evident that it's not working" experiment. Jamison deserved to start more than Walker. As for Fortson being frustrated, well, who gives a rat's ass? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Who indeed, excellent point. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

[mary]

The Sturminator chimes in on his blog....we are in agreeance..

11/28: Sunday - A couple of brief observations from last night’s Mavs win in Memphis:

1) Like I asked a month ago, why was Devin Harris given the starting job out of training camp? He struggles from night to night, but that is not a surprise. There are no more Purdue and Western Illinois on his schedule. But now that Nelson yanks him early in each game, we are all (including Devin) left to think that he is failing. That is not right. He is merely learning how to play this game, and to mess with this kid’s head like this is unnecessary…

www.bobanddan.net

[Mavs414]

terry does need to start cause harris is not doin that well and plus jason terry wants to be here in dallas and maybe he he would play better if he starts

[madape]

It's very similar to the Vinny/Drew Henson debate. Terry may give us a slightly better chance to win, when he's healty. But the long term success of this team depends on Harris's development. He needs a ton of playing time, but Nelson needs to manage that time in a way that still gives us a chance to win every night. I think he's done a great job of that so far this year, but doesn't mean that point guard isn't a major weakness on this team. I anticipate that we will struggle with our offense all year. But at least by the end of the year we will be able to determine whether Harris is a player or not.

[#41]

Hope JT starts vs. Spurs tomorrow, I don't see Harris slowing down the French guy. Terry plays 32min for 16 shots and 17 points with 6 assists and Mavs take it 94-91.