Thoughts on this years draft? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mavs777 · 06-13-2011, 01:36 AM

It really lacks in legit starters and stars but there is a lot of value in last first round and some good potential second rounders, I wouldn't be surprised if when all is said and done Jonas Valencius has the best career, he will really change the game on defensive end and if he gets any kind of a post game can play offensivly.

Late First rounders I like (for mavs):
Darius Morris: 6-6 PG
Justin Harper: 6-9 PF
Jujuan Johnson: 6-10 PF
Malcolm Lee: 6'5 SG
Jimmy Butler: 6'8 SF
Late First Rounders I don't like
Lucan Nogueria 7'0 C
Reggie Jackson 6'3 PG
Nolan Smith 6'4 combo guard

Potential Second round steals
Trey Thompkins 6-10 PF
David Lighty 6-6 SG/SF
Andre Goudelock 6'3 Combo guard
Malcolm Thomas 6'9 PF
Justin Holliday: 6'6 SG/SF

Thoughts?

DIRK LEGIONS · 06-13-2011, 05:22 PM

Need to get big men but knowing donnie he get a couple of euro who will not come to usa

a low post defender/rebounder and maybe a 6'9 shooter swingman would be great

Mavsfan4ever · 06-13-2011, 05:35 PM

In addition to big men we need a good defender would not hurt if he could score too. I also see great value in a player with pure athleticism as we are sorely lacking in that department.

mavs777 · 06-13-2011, 06:29 PM

Jujuan Johnson is who i really like but I doubt he will be there at 27, Harper is a good one too, and Thompkins isn't much of a reach at 27.

Mavsfan4ever · 06-13-2011, 06:37 PM

I was just reading this on Yahoo Sports mock draft as for who they predict as the Mavs first round pick.

Quote:

Lucas Nogueira C
18 years old; 7'0"; 225 lbs
MMT Estudiantes (Spain)
"Bebe" needs to go to a team with great facilities and staff that is willing to be patient as he works to reach his considerable potential, and the Mavs are exactly that, having the added bonus of being able to supplement his development through playing time on their D-League team.

I know nothing of Lucas Nogueira so I can not speak on him as a player, but I'm not 100% sold on taking another Euro player.

mavs777 · 06-13-2011, 10:10 PM

he has no passion or energy for the game, he always grades low on workouts and such he really needs 2-4 years to make an impact on the game, pass.

edit: also he just withdrew from the draft to no ones suprise

CadBane · 06-14-2011, 04:25 PM

Harper would be great. Floor stretching big.

Kirobaito · 06-14-2011, 04:28 PM

I would also look at Marshon Brooks. Basically a replacement for Stevenson, who can create his own shot and has insane length (7'1" on a 6'5" frame).

OSUmavsfan · 06-14-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

It really lacks in legit starters and stars but there is a lot of value in last first round and some good potential second rounders, I wouldn't be surprised if when all is said and done Jonas Valencius has the best career, he will really change the game on defensive end and if he gets any kind of a post game can play offensivly.

Late First rounders I like (for mavs):
Darius Morris: 6-6 PG
Justin Harper: 6-9 PF
Jujuan Johnson: 6-10 PF
Malcolm Lee: 6'5 SG
Jimmy Butler: 6'8 SF
Late First Rounders I don't like
Lucan Nogueria 7'0 C
Reggie Jackson 6'3 PG
Nolan Smith 6'4 combo guard

Potential Second round steals
Trey Thompkins 6-10 PF
David Lighty 6-6 SG/SF
Andre Goudelock 6'3 Combo guard
Malcolm Thomas 6'9 PF
Justin Holliday: 6'6 SG/SF

Thoughts?

I like a lot of these guys as well. I saw Darius Morris play a lot this year, and I've heard his jumpshot has improved a lot already this offseason, which is really his only major weakness. I think he fits well with our small SGs because of his ball-handling and passing. I'd add Iman Shumpert into the same category as Morris. He also has good size and point guard skills, but he's been playing for a bad coach with bad players, which I think hurt his reputation. Jajuan Johnson has a great shooting stroke for his size, but I worry about him being able to post up due to his lack of strength. Also, I'm not sure he can defend in the NBA, his DPOY in the Big Ten was undeserved IMO.

I'm watched basically every game of David Lighty's career and even played a pick-up game with him once. I would love to have him on the Mavs. He's a great guy and definitely one of the better perimeter defenders in the country. He also has excellent size, strength, and athleticism. He routinely guarded college power forwards so I have no doubt that he could at least guard the 2 and 3 in the NBA. He's also become a pretty good outside shooter and passer, after starting his career as solely a defensive stopper.

Budapest Maverick · 06-14-2011, 05:47 PM

A raw big man, with massive potential, who you can stash away for years. At this point, i think that's the only kind of prospect that makes sense. So i'd love Nogueira, but i've read today he withdraws unless he gets a first round guarantee from a team. I'd love for us to be that team. Our core will stay the same for the next 2 years at least, and we're stacked at every position. No room for a rookie right now, so you might as well go with potential.

mavs777 · 06-14-2011, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

I would also look at Marshon Brooks. Basically a replacement for Stevenson, who can create his own shot and has insane length (7'1" on a 6'5" frame).

His stock has risen too high, in the teens most likely he will be gone, possibly late lottery.

As for Morris he reminds me a bit of Andre Miller with worse handles, he needs to improve his handles somewhat but he has the mentality of a true PG, he knows how to create shots for others, he has a pretty good mid range game, and is above average athletically.

mavs777 · 06-14-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

A raw big man, with massive potential, who you can stash away for years. At this point, i think that's the only kind of prospect that makes sense. So i'd love Nogueira, but i've read today he withdraws unless he gets a first round guarantee from a team. I'd love for us to be that team. Our core will stay the same for the next 2 years at least, and we're stacked at every position. No room for a rookie right now, so you might as well go with potential.

he has already withdrawen out of the draft, I just don't think he will be more than a 10 MPG player either way, he has height and length but pretty much no skill or desire whatsoever

twistaeffect2004 · 06-15-2011, 12:10 AM

From what I've read from various NBA Draft oriented websites, the Mavs have been paired up with 19 year old Latvian Davis Bertans.

mavs777 · 06-15-2011, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

From what I've read from various NBA Draft oriented websites, the Mavs have been paired up with 19 year old Latvian Davis Bertans.

I have heard that SA will most likely draft him if he is there at 29 fwiw. The fact that he did not withdraw from the draft most likely means someone or multiple teams gave him a first round guarentee. He is a very good shooter that for whatever reason hasn't shot the ball well in 3 on 3 and 5 on 5 workouts, he has decent athletisism, his bball iqand feel for the game isn't great, he would be a "potential" pick and 1 I wouldn't be against. I also really like Nikola Mirotic as a potential pick but do not think he would be there at 27.

Mavsfan4ever · 06-15-2011, 12:42 AM

One thing I like about this years draft class is as long as we keep our core intact this year we can send any draftee to the D League to improve. Well I don't feel this years class is strong I like that we not only have a D League team to develop a player,but vets who can pass on their considerable knowledge.

mavs777 · 06-15-2011, 01:54 AM

Unless the D League simpy becomes an option because of a lockout so the talent level is higher it is simply better to send them overseas like we are doing with Calathes, the level of competition is better.

OSUmavsfan · 06-15-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Unless the D League simpy becomes an option because of a lockout so the talent level is higher it is simply better to send them overseas like we are doing with Calathes, the level of competition is better.

That's true, but our D-League team has the advantage of actually being owned by Donnie and basically playing in Dallas, so I think there may be more opportunity to work with the team or at least insist the player focus on what the coaching staff wants from him.

ThreevensonsBeard · 06-15-2011, 12:46 PM

FWIW Chad Fords mock draft 5.0 has us taking Josh Selby at 26

Josh Selby

Position: PG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 195
Age: 20
School: Kansas
Analysis: The Mavs have won the title, but now it's time to begin thinking about the future. While the Mavs may have one more long run in those veteran legs, it's unlikely. Selby, like Tyler, could be a home run if he's developed right. His ability to get to the basket is really unmatched.

mavs777 · 06-15-2011, 01:17 PM

Selby makes sense if the Mavs view him as a point though I honestly see him more of a combo guard like booby, he has really impressed in workouts apparently and has looked explosive.

Kirobaito · 06-15-2011, 01:24 PM

I just worry about loading up on 6'3" shooting guards. Don't we have enough of those already?

mavs777 · 06-15-2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

I just worry about loading up on 6'3" shooting guards. Don't we have enough of those already?

If the Mavs draft Selby I am sure they would view him as a point.

ThreevensonsBeard · 06-15-2011, 02:58 PM

I guess it just depends on your opinion of Roddy. If you think he can turn into a decent point guard then that makes Selby pretty redundant. But honestly I just get the feeling that Roddy's future is as a great scorer off the bench. The guy just has zero point guard skills.

While Selby isn't a pure point either, it at least looks like he has some of the tools already. Plus Selby is bigger, and seems to be able to penetrate just as well. I say we draft him and let Kidd mold him into our PG of the future.

OSUmavsfan · 06-15-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThreevensonsBeard

I guess it just depends on your opinion of Roddy. If you think he can turn into a decent point guard then that makes Selby pretty redundant. But honestly I just get the feeling that Roddy's future is as a great scorer off the bench. The guy just has zero point guard skills.

While Selby isn't a pure point either, it at least looks like he has some of the tools already. Plus Selby is bigger, and seems to be able to penetrate just as well. I say we draft him and let Kidd mold him into our PG of the future.

Selby is interesting to me. He was the #1 overall player coming out of high school according to Rivals. He missed about 1/3 of the season due to ineligibility and then battled injuries, and by a lot of accounts, he struggled to adapt to a different role at Kansas. That leads me to believe that he could be undervalued late in the first round, and if the Mavs aren't excited about anyone late in the draft, it would be a good idea to take someone that at least has a high ceiling like Selby.

ThreevensonsBeard · 06-15-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUmavsfan

Selby is interesting to me. He was the #1 overall player coming out of high school according to Rivals. He missed about 1/3 of the season due to ineligibility and then battled injuries, and by a lot of accounts, he struggled to adapt to a different role at Kansas. That leads me to believe that he could be undervalued late in the first round, and if the Mavs aren't excited about anyone late in the draft, it would be a good idea to take someone that at least has a high ceiling like Selby.

Agreed. Every scouting report I read on him says he is a lottery talent that just needs the right team to draft and develop him.

Other than Selby I also like Marshon Brooks and Kenneth Faried.

j0Shi · 06-15-2011, 07:49 PM

I wonder why we should consider drafting guards? Looking at the roster we have the multiple propects in the backcourt, only Brewer and Mahinmi in the frontcourt. Add Nick Calathes who is projected to have (in theory) a bigger impact in the NBA than Rubio.

mavs777 · 06-15-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I wonder why we should consider drafting guards? Looking at the roster we have the multiple propects in the backcourt, only Brewer and Mahinmi in the frontcourt. Add Nick Calathes who is projected to have (in theory) a bigger impact in the NBA than Rubio.

That is going too far

Underdog · 06-15-2011, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Add Nick Calathes who is projected to have (in theory) a bigger impact in the NBA than Rubio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

That is going too far

That might not be a realistic comparison, but that's not a bad comparison.

Personally, I wouldn't mind Jason Kidd grooming a pass-first PG like Rubio, but we already have rights on Calathes who is more similar to Kidd in many regards.

OSUmavsfan · 06-15-2011, 09:57 PM

I would even be in favor of trading this pick for a future first in a couple years, though it may be difficult in such a weak draft to get a team to bite on a deal like that. I'd much rather have two picks in a draft around the time Dirk's contract is ending than one pick this year when anyone we draft will likely be our 15th man. Of course the other way to go would be drafting a young foreigner that won't come over for a couple years.

jthig32 · 06-15-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I wonder why we should consider drafting guards? Looking at the roster we have the multiple propects in the backcourt, only Brewer and Mahinmi in the frontcourt. Add Nick Calathes who is projected to have (in theory) a bigger impact in the NBA than Rubio.

There's still a pretty strong thought out there that Calathes may never come to the NBA though, no?

I'd say the Mavs have a legitimate young player at PG/SG, SG/SF and Center.

Calathes is the wild card. If they think he'll ever come over, then yeah, I'd focus on front court. If they're unsure, then it's a pretty even field and I'd be interested in any position.

Edit to add:

Well...hmmm:

Quote:

That's why Calathes was in Dallas for game five and Miami for game six, watching potential future teammates douse the Heat. Dallas secured NBA rights to Calathes in a 2009 post-draft trade with Minnesota, which took the 6-foot-6 guard in the second round even after he signed with Panathinaikos following his sophomore season at UF.

Man it'd be pretty exciting to see him join the team for next season. As we've seen with Kidd, bigger defensive PG's can create a ton of roster flexibility.

OSUmavsfan · 06-15-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

There's still a pretty strong thought out there that Calathes may never come to the NBA though, no?

I'd say the Mavs have a legitimate young player at PG/SG, SG/SF and Center.

Calathes is the wild card. If they think he'll ever come over, then yeah, I'd focus on front court. If they're unsure, then it's a pretty even field and I'd be interested in any position.

Edit to add:

Well...hmmm:

Man it'd be pretty exciting to see him join the team for next season.

Wow that's great news. I'd love to see him come over before Kidd retires so he can learn firsthand. Also, while it does seem like a front court player is a bigger need right now, I don't want to see the Mavs reach for someone just to get a big man. The odds of a player picked that late are so low, that it would be better just to get the guy you think has the best chance of making it in the NBA.

ThreevensonsBeard · 06-15-2011, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

There's still a pretty strong thought out there that Calathes may never come to the NBA though, no?

I'd say the Mavs have a legitimate young player at PG/SG, SG/SF and Center.

Calathes is the wild card. If they think he'll ever come over, then yeah, I'd focus on front court. If they're unsure, then it's a pretty even field and I'd be interested in any position.

Edit to add:

Well...hmmm:

Man it'd be pretty exciting to see him join the team for next season. As we've seen with Kidd, bigger defensive PG's can create a ton of roster flexibility.

What is your opinion on Calathes? I've never seen him play before. What is his potential? Bench player? Starter? All star?

jthig32 · 06-15-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThreevensonsBeard

What is your opinion on Calathes? I've never seen him play before. What is his potential? Bench player? Starter? All star?

Well, I mean I only remember so much from the few games I watched of him in college. He had a nice year on one of the best teams in one of the best basketball leagues in the world. They won the Eurobasket title this year, actually.

Anything beyond that would just be guessing at this point.

ThreevensonsBeard · 06-15-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, I mean I only remember so much from the few games I watched of him in college. He had a nice year on one of the best teams in one of the best basketball leagues in the world. They won the Eurobasket title this year, actually.

Anything beyond that would just be guessing at this point.

I see. Well all his scouting reports say he somewhat lacks athleticism, which is concerning. These days, unless you are jason kidd, you have to have at least some level of speed and athleticism to keep up with all the freaks running around this league.

GP · 06-16-2011, 12:25 AM

Its been a while since I last posted here but I found your discussion to be informative and compelling. I disagree with drafting projects. They never seem to contribute to a Mavs team in any significant or meaningful way. I'd like to see a big point like Moore or Iman Shumpert but Selby would be nice as well. I just want them to draft someone who can contribute this year. Probably, what they could use the most is a big power forward to backup Dirk with a low post game. If they go in that direction a rebounding demon and good low post defender sounds ideal to me.

mavs777 · 06-16-2011, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThreevensonsBeard

What is your opinion on Calathes? I've never seen him play before. What is his potential? Bench player? Starter? All star?

I would say above average starter but not a star, he won't score much in the NBA and has an inconsistent jumper with mediocre speed, but other than that he is in very good shape, extremely high bball iq, good rebounder, a pure pg reads the game very well, in other words he might be a "mini" Kidd so to speak but he won't rebound as well as him and doesn't have the speed Kidd had when he came out of college. Also while he is a plus passer impossible to say he will be better or as good as one of best passers of all time.

wilmtalk · 06-16-2011, 04:53 AM

the Mavs really scr*wed the pouch by winning the champianship. Didn't they realize they would move down and have to draft last? How stupid can you get.

j0Shi · 06-16-2011, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

That is going too far

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpo...6&postcount=10

He might be right. Rubio played all but well in Europe while Calathes has constantly improved. Not saying Rubio will be a bust in Minnesota but it might take 2 or 3 years until he reaches potential. If we bring in Calathes there's a decent chance that he will outperform Rubio in any metric not measured on a "per game" basis.

Here's a comparison you will like:

- late second round pick
- >= 6'6'' Guard
- Played a couple of season overseas until joining the franchise that drafted him

Manu Ginobili

jthig32 · 06-16-2011, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

the Mavs really scr*wed the pouch by winning the champianship. Didn't they realize they would move down and have to draft last? How stupid can you get.

I realize you're being sarcastic about them "screwing the pooch", but just so you know, this isn't the NFL. The Mavs will draft 26th.

Kirobaito · 06-16-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I realize you're being sarcastic about them "screwing the pooch", but just so you know, this isn't the NFL. The Mavs will draft 26th.

On that general topic, though, there's something that's never made sense to me. In 2003, the Mavs drafted 30th overall and took Josh Howard, one pick after the Spurs took Barbosa. Both teams were 60-22. The Spurs got the #1 seed in the playoffs, Mavs #3 (Kings at 59-23 got #2 for winning their division). Why did the Spurs get both the better seed in the playoffs and the better draft pick? Seems like a serious rule oversight if the tiebreakers for playoff seeding and draft position are different (if they flipped a coin, or something).

OSUmavsfan · 06-16-2011, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

On that general topic, though, there's something that's never made sense to me. In 2003, the Mavs drafted 30th overall and took Josh Howard, one pick after the Spurs took Barbosa. Both teams were 60-22. The Spurs got the #1 seed in the playoffs, Mavs #3 (Kings at 59-23 got #2 for winning their division). Why did the Spurs get both the better seed in the playoffs and the better draft pick? Seems like a serious rule oversight if the tiebreakers for playoff seeding and draft position are different (if they flipped a coin, or something).

I agree the tiebreakers are stupid. I think the draft is decided by a coin flip, when they could easily just give it to the team that didn't get the playoff tiebreaker. I remember earlier this postseason when the Mavs won the coin toss to get the 26th pick over the Lakers, I thought how unfair it would have been if the Lakers had taken that pick from us, in addition to taking homecourt from us.