Thoughts on this years draft? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

OSUmavsfan · 06-16-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP

Its been a while since I last posted here but I found your discussion to be informative and compelling. I disagree with drafting projects. They never seem to contribute to a Mavs team in any significant or meaningful way. I'd like to see a big point like Moore or Iman Shumpert but Selby would be nice as well. I just want them to draft someone who can contribute this year. Probably, what they could use the most is a big power forward to backup Dirk with a low post game. If they go in that direction a rebounding demon and good low post defender sounds ideal to me.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...reakdown-3740/

This is a nice video breakdown of Morris. They have a bunch of others listed at the bottom too, but the only one of those guys that might be around for the Mavs is Honeycutt. I'm thinking exactly the same as you, give me Shumpert or Morris if possible, but I'd be fine with Selby.

mavs777 · 06-16-2011, 12:55 PM

Rubio's game doesn't flourish in a slow down type game like they play in Euro's while it might not be a stretch to say Calathes is the better Euro PG, Rubio's game is much more suited for the more wide open style of play in the NBA, he has great speed and creativity, and is a very good passer willing to make risks with the ball, that translates well in the NBA.

Mavsfan4ever · 06-16-2011, 08:06 PM

Though I'm underwhelmed by this years class in general the more I study him I find Morris to be a good enough choice. I could be wrong, but I do not see him as a future all star though I do think with enough development he could give us decent enough numbers in a few years time.

GP · 06-17-2011, 12:18 AM

Kanter looks like a beast in the combine that I am watching on NBA TV. Big, strong, fast, agile, quick. He has all the tools. The mock draft I am looking at projects him at 4. To bad, maybe he'll get caught with some tranny hookers before the draft and fall to 26. Got to know Donnie loves them international players. At least he hit on one.

mavs777 · 06-17-2011, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP

Kanter looks like a beast in the combine that I am watching on NBA TV. Big, strong, fast, agile, quick. He has all the tools. The mock draft I am looking at projects him at 4. To bad, maybe he'll get caught with some tranny hookers before the draft and fall to 26. Got to know Donnie loves them international players. At least he hit on one.

I like Valencius more he is going to be a dominate defensive center and everyone knows how valuable that is....

EricaLubarsky · 06-17-2011, 12:39 AM

its a weak draft-- 4-5 guys that really get the guarantee stamp of greatness (which means they are all of 50% likely to make it)

Because of that I think you'll see a lot of teams like the Celtics selling first rounders this year or trading them for future picks.

there will be at least 8-10 guys that will be in the NBA in 3 seasons, and probably a few diamonds in the rough that will be starters. It'll be interesting to watch. The Mavericks are in a very interesting position this year. We have only 9 players under contract next year but have guys like Butler, Barea and Chandler to re-sign and guys like Cardinal/Stevenson we might still want around. That doesnt give us a lot of flexibility in terms of roster spots

My questions

If we re-sign Chandler and Butler, do we draft another SG?

Do we draft a PG to replace Kidd? I dont see any PGs available outside the top 10 that have that true star ability but we could find a diamond in the rough.

Do we draft a big to play behind Dirk now? Peja's back may improve with time but his defense will always be as bad as its ever been and Im not sure he wont just up and leave or come back as a special teams player. A backup 3/4 that could play in the next actual season of play would be nice but rookies may take a few years to come around

Do we simply draft the best player out there and use them as an asset?

Do we trade our #26 for trade pieces or future picks when the draft is stronger

EricaLubarsky · 06-17-2011, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP

Kanter looks like a beast in the combine that I am watching on NBA TV. Big, strong, fast, agile, quick. He has all the tools. The mock draft I am looking at projects him at 4. To bad, maybe he'll get caught with some tranny hookers before the draft and fall to 26. Got to know Donnie loves them international players. At least he hit on one.

I wonder how Dirk's dominance this year will impact Kanter-- whose game is very similar to Dirk's. Dirk may have single handedly shot Kanter from 6-12 into the top 3

CadBane · 06-17-2011, 12:57 AM

Eh, Kanter isn't really like Dirk, he's more like Al Horford.

mavs777 · 06-17-2011, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

its a weak draft-- 4-5 guys that really get the guarantee stamp of greatness (which means they are all of 50% likely to make it)

Because of that I think you'll see a lot of teams like the Celtics selling first rounders this year or trading them for future picks.

there will be at least 8-10 guys that will be in the NBA in 3 seasons, and probably a few diamonds in the rough that will be starters. It'll be interesting to watch. The Mavericks are in a very interesting position this year. We have only 9 players under contract next year but have guys like Butler, Barea and Chandler to re-sign and guys like Cardinal/Stevenson we might still want around. That doesnt give us a lot of flexibility in terms of roster spots

My questions

If we re-sign Chandler and Butler, do we draft another SG?

Do we draft a PG to replace Kidd? I dont see any PGs available outside the top 10 that have that true star ability but we could find a diamond in the rough.

Do we draft a big to play behind Dirk now? Peja's back may improve with time but his defense will always be as bad as its ever been and Im not sure he wont just up and leave or come back as a special teams player. A backup 3/4 that could play in the next actual season of play would be nice but rookies may take a few years to come around

Do we simply draft the best player out there and use them as an asset?

Do we trade our #26 for trade pieces or future picks when the draft is stronger

I totally disagree with this stance, the draft is weak after derrick williams and kyrie irving (as well as valencius, vesely, and kantar) the weak part is in that 5-18 range there is a lot of value to be had in this years draft, the Mavs could use the Spurs strategy of stashing the pick with a David Bertans or Nicola Mirotok, also Darius Morris, Josh Selby, and Jujuan Johnson are intriguing. Next years draft however is shaping up like a great one.

EricaLubarsky · 06-17-2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I totally disagree with this stance, the draft is weak after derrick williams and kyrie irving (as well as valencius, vesely, and kantar) the weak part is in that 5-18 range there is a lot of value to be had in this years draft, the Mavs could use the Spurs strategy of stashing the pick with a David Bertans or Nicola Mirotok, also Darius Morris, Josh Selby, and Jujuan Johnson are intriguing. Next years draft however is shaping up like a great one.

uh how is that disagreeing with me? If you arent even disagreeing how are you totally disagreeing?

orangedays · 06-17-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

uh how is that disagreeing with me? If you arent even disagreeing how are you totally disagreeing?

Haha...oh Lubarsky. Miss your old avatar.

mavs777 · 06-17-2011, 02:19 PM

There is a lot of value to be had in the end of the first round, that is what i am trying to say.

Kirobaito · 06-17-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I totally disagree with this stance, the draft is weak after derrick williams and kyrie irving (as well as valencius, vesely, and kantar) the weak part is in that 5-18 range there is a lot of value to be had in this years draft, the Mavs could use the Spurs strategy of stashing the pick with a David Bertans or Nicola Mirotok, also Darius Morris, Josh Selby, and Jujuan Johnson are intriguing. Next years draft however is shaping up like a great one.

Next year's draft will probably be the best since '03. The number of athletic 3s is sick. Davis, Barnes, Jones, Miller, McAdoo, Gilchrist. Just terrifying.

twistaeffect2004 · 06-17-2011, 04:55 PM

ESPN Insiders Chad Ford has us taking Josh Selby in his latest mock. I'd view this as a major steal if he were to fall that low. Out of high school this kid was being tapped as one of the premiere talents in the country.

I'd love that. Selby is certainly a kid, and in some ways a bit of a project. But boy does he have a boat load of untapped talent. I think it'd be very beneficial for him to be surrounded by the veterans on this ball club.

j0Shi · 06-18-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Jimmy Butler: 6'8 SF

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2...=Butler-110618

SeriousSummer · 06-18-2011, 01:12 PM

Nobody that will be available when the Mavs draft will be able to help the team next year, and probably not for the next several years.

The Mavs should draft on potential, and it wouldn't hurt if the player is overseas for a couple of years.

No rookie is going to be able to contribute much here until that sad time when Dirk finally retires and the Mavs decline into a lottery team for at least a couple of years. The Mavs are drafting for 2016 from now on.

sefant77 · 06-18-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

Nobody that will be available when the Mavs draft will be able to help the team next year, and probably not for the next several years.

The Mavs should draft on potential, and it wouldn't hurt if the player is overseas for a couple of years.

No rookie is going to be able to contribute much here until that sad time when Dirk finally retires and the Mavs decline into a lottery team for at least a couple of years. The Mavs are drafting for 2016 from now on.

This.

Specially with us wanting all (Butler, Barea) back. Please no other guard, we have three (!) that didnt play in the playoffs (Roddy, Jones, Brewer) and one stashed in europe. With Barea back i also wanna see Nick another year in greece.

Im fine with any euro prospect that we can park in europe, SF-C...

mavs777 · 06-18-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

This.

Specially with us wanting all (Butler, Barea) back. Please no other guard, we have three (!) that didnt play in the playoffs (Roddy, Jones, Brewer) and one stashed in europe. With Barea back i also wanna see Nick another year in greece.

Im fine with any euro prospect that we can park in europe, SF-C...

Brewer is a 3
David Bertans and Nikola Mirotik are players that can be had in late first round to stash

mavs777 · 06-19-2011, 12:07 AM

Darrius Morris shot 52% on Iso's last year in 100+ possessions with ISO, that is extremely good, the average is 39%

sefant77 · 06-19-2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Brewer is a 3

Brewer has the size of a 3 and the weight/frame of a PG.

Put him fulltime on the average ~220 SF and they have a 30lbs+ advantage

mavs777 · 06-19-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Brewer has the size of a 3 and the weight/frame of a PG.

Put him fulltime on the average ~220 SF and they have a 30lbs+ advantage

Yes he needs to put on weight no doubt, but he doesn't have the skillset of a SG he can't handle the ball and he can't shoot it. Get him up to 210 and he will be fine.

sefant77 · 06-19-2011, 02:34 PM

He is in the league since four years and couldnt bulk up. Why you think he can "bulk up" to 210 if he couldnt do it in the past?

NBA draft combine 185 and now he is listed as 188...

OSUmavsfan · 06-20-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

chadfordinsider Chad Ford
Valanciunas update: Sources say buyout agreement close, however, buyout won't allow Valanciunas to play in NBA next season.

Quote:

chadfordinsider Chad Ford
If Valanciunas can't play in NBA next year, he'll drop. Cavs won't take him at 4. Still I doubt he slips past the Rockets at 14.

If he drops to the mid first round, I'd like to see the Mavs try to move up to get him. It would be nice to have two prospects developing overseas next year ready to come over in 2013. I wonder if #26 + Dojo + cash would be enough to move into the mid first round though? My guess would be no, and I'm not sure what more we'd have to offer.

Mavsfan4ever · 06-20-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUmavsfan

If he drops to the mid first round, I'd like to see the Mavs try to move up to get him. It would be nice to have two prospects developing overseas next year ready to come over in 2013. I wonder if #26 + Dojo + cash would be enough to move into the mid first round though? My guess would be no, and I'm not sure what more we'd have to offer.

Have the Mavs made any indication of trying to move up? I have heard no news on this front.

OSUmavsfan · 06-20-2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan4ever

Have the Mavs made any indication of trying to move up? I have heard no news on this front.

Oh no, that was just something that I might consider and I think the Mavs should think about since they don't exactly need immediate help. I actually have heard literally nothing about the Mavs' plans with their pick.

GP · 06-20-2011, 11:09 PM

Here is the problem I have with the Draft 'n Stash concept. Draft a guy on potential, he plays in Europe for 2, 3 even 4 years. He comes to the Mavs. He is good. Has an adjustment phase to the NBA and it takes him basically 1 to 2 years before making his impact. Heck, you are looking at 4, 5 or even 6 years before getting any return on that investment. Not a sound strategy if you ask me.

My preference is to pick a guy with maybe less upside by can play in the NBA and improve. Maybe you won't hit the home run but getting a guy that can have a solid NBA career is the way to go. Every year guys fall through the cracks. Sometimes stars fall through the cracks. Mavs could really use anything in this draft because the team is the most complete it has ever been. No screaming "need" so they can draft the best guy on the board.

And lets be honest, for stars this draft absolutely sucks. I've read that the best player in the draft might never be a top 10 point guard. Wow! Just wow! This happens from time to time though and in these kinds of draft there always seems to be a plethora of guys who become solid NBA players. I'd bet money that some kids from big time programs turn out way better than expected and of course there is going to be a lot of over hyped players who can't play a lick.

There are some very interesting names that are projected to fall to the Mavs. Weird thing about this draft is that there is not much separation between the lottery picks and guys in the upper 2nd round. Teams are going to flub a lot of these picks. Mavs have a golden opportunity to get a steal in this draft. Also, teams are going to want to trade out of this draft or trade down.

Mavsfan4ever · 06-20-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUmavsfan

Oh no, that was just something that I might consider and I think the Mavs should think about since they don't exactly need immediate help. I actually have heard literally nothing about the Mavs' plans with their pick.

Okay, I get what your saying.

I agree with something you said we need a prospect to store away in Europe this year. I'm watch Prospect Park on NBA which is fueling my belief that this draft class lacks even a potential All Star.

mavs777 · 06-21-2011, 01:48 AM

Ed Isaacson an NBA Draft expert called this the deepest draft in everyone's lifetime

mavs777 · 06-21-2011, 01:49 AM

Valencius is my favorite player in this draft then Irving, if Valencius is available after top 10 I trade next years pick for him and the 26th pick

Mavsfan4ever · 06-21-2011, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Valencius is my favorite player in this draft then Irving, if Valencius is available after top 10 I trade next years pick for him and the 26th pick

I'm not sure if he is worth trading next years picks for. Next years draft class looks as if it will be much stronger and by then we will be eying the future.

mavs777 · 06-21-2011, 03:18 AM

You can always buy late first round pick it seems

Btw Valenciunas may as well be Tyson's clone minus TC's great passion.

chumdawg · 06-21-2011, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP

Here is the problem I have with the Draft 'n Stash concept. Draft a guy on potential, he plays in Europe for 2, 3 even 4 years. He comes to the Mavs. He is good. Has an adjustment phase to the NBA and it takes him basically 1 to 2 years before making his impact. Heck, you are looking at 4, 5 or even 6 years before getting any return on that investment. Not a sound strategy if you ask me.

My preference is to pick a guy with maybe less upside by can play in the NBA and improve. Maybe you won't hit the home run but getting a guy that can have a solid NBA career is the way to go. Every year guys fall through the cracks. Sometimes stars fall through the cracks. Mavs could really use anything in this draft because the team is the most complete it has ever been. No screaming "need" so they can draft the best guy on the board.

And lets be honest, for stars this draft absolutely sucks. I've read that the best player in the draft might never be a top 10 point guard. Wow! Just wow! This happens from time to time though and in these kinds of draft there always seems to be a plethora of guys who become solid NBA players. I'd bet money that some kids from big time programs turn out way better than expected and of course there is going to be a lot of over hyped players who can't play a lick.

There are some very interesting names that are projected to fall to the Mavs. Weird thing about this draft is that there is not much separation between the lottery picks and guys in the upper 2nd round. Teams are going to flub a lot of these picks. Mavs have a golden opportunity to get a steal in this draft. Also, teams are going to want to trade out of this draft or trade down.

If we can look back a few years, I'd a hell of a lot rather have a Nick Calethes than a Mo Ager. Mo was from a big program, had a nice reputation. Couldn't play a lick.

I think that "late-in-the-draft-steals" are overrated, too. People like to bitch that we didn't do something to get DeJuan Blair, before the Spurs did. Well, who cares. Blair is never going to be more than a guy who can't find important minutes in a playoff series.

And don't get me started on Josh Howard. The kid went exactly where he should have in the draft, and no later.

There is one simple thing that makes the NBA draft such a volatile exercise when it comes to value, and that is the small number of players in the rotations. Each team needs about eight. And good players go for way more years than that. It's a hard clique to break into.

Mavsfan4ever · 06-21-2011, 03:50 AM

First let me say I would love to be proving wrong in the next few years. That being said I don't see anyone with real lasting value to the League outside of Irving or Williams.

mpb319 · 06-21-2011, 09:34 AM

The issue with this years draft for the Mavs is the fact that the team would like to bring eveyone back for a run at a repeat.
That plus the fact that there are 6 free agents and no real idea of what the new CBA will be kind of handcuffs the team.
If we are able to resign everyone then the best course would be to draft a very young European who can play for 2-3 years and then come over.
Even if we lose a couple of guys (Peja, DSteve) then that would be wise still.

j0Shi · 06-21-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThreevensonsBeard

FWIW Chad Fords mock draft 5.0 has us taking Josh Selby at 26

Josh Selby

Position: PG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 195
Age: 20
School: Kansas
Analysis: The Mavs have won the title, but now it's time to begin thinking about the future. While the Mavs may have one more long run in those veteran legs, it's unlikely. Selby, like Tyler, could be a home run if he's developed right. His ability to get to the basket is really unmatched.

6.0 says Nikola Mirotic.

Selby 37th pick.

GP · 06-21-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If we can look back a few years, I'd a hell of a lot rather have a Nick Calethes than a Mo Ager. Mo was from a big program, had a nice reputation. Couldn't play a lick.

I think that "late-in-the-draft-steals" are overrated, too. People like to bitch that we didn't do something to get DeJuan Blair, before the Spurs did. Well, who cares. Blair is never going to be more than a guy who can't find important minutes in a playoff series.

And don't get me started on Josh Howard. The kid went exactly where he should have in the draft, and no later.

There is one simple thing that makes the NBA draft such a volatile exercise when it comes to value, and that is the small number of players in the rotations. Each team needs about eight. And good players go for way more years than that. It's a hard clique to break into.

In hindsight the Mo Ager draft was pathetic and irrelevant to this discussion. By all accounts there are going to be some very good albeit flawed players in this draft. So much so that it is reported that the #2 and the #4 picks are highly available. But where the Mavs are drafting there is a plethora of power forwards, points and shooting guards available that can turn into contributors. Just none are going to be stars. Mavs don't needs stars. Heck they don't even really need backups. Drafting a guy like Tyler, Harper, Johnson, Honeycutt or Leslie makes a lot of sense to me. What doesn't make sense to me is drafting a kid and then waiting 4, 5 or 6 years to get mediocre play from him. Draft him now. If he is good enough to make the team then great he'll improve at the NBA level or in the developmental league and then he'll start making a contribution now. If he doesn't. Cut him or trade him and move on. Simple as that.

mavs777 · 06-21-2011, 03:52 PM

Stash the pick for 2 years not 4-5 years its not like Bertans or Mirotic are at best bench contributors both have potential to become above average starters.

j0Shi · 06-21-2011, 08:22 PM

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...a_draft_062111

Quote:

Y! Sources: San Antonio's engaged in trade talks centering on Tony Parker to move into Thursday's draft lottery

saclare · 06-21-2011, 09:48 PM

Can't wait for Thursday. It is shaping up to be an interesting draft. Trades may trump the lack of talent. Hmmm

Mavsfan4ever · 06-22-2011, 01:31 AM

A lot of the trade talk ahead of the draft is much more interesting to me then the actual draft.