2008 Cowboys Off-season Thread

[ty]

Barber isn't going anywhere guys. Don't underestimate Jerry Jones and his ability to talk down the price of a player.

No reason to put our running game in the hands of two unproven rookies.

Name someone else we can trade for Boldin or Roy Williams

[Male30Dan]

TY, the problem is he won't be able to talk Barber and his agent down and Barber might just hold out after two guys got picked. Why would you come to camp and possibly lose all of your leverage and actually risk having Jones beat you out as the best RB on this team, (something I think he absolutely could do)?

If we can't sign him, trade him for a GREAT WR.

[jthig32]

Jones said in his PC that they didn't feel like Felix was the kind of back that could carry the full load for a team.

If they were worried at all about Barber not signing, I think they would have drafted Mendenhall.

[Male30Dan]

I love the discussion but I have to run now. If any of you wanna continue this just post away or shoot me PMs - I will be back later this afternoon.

In the end, we all want the same thing. I just think giving Romo, a friggin S-T-U-D, more options that are this talented is the way to go than to have 3 guys that could all potentially be starters in this league at RB, (though definitely not top 7 starters 5-0 ), on a pass heavy team is so much smarter.

Either way I think we are NFC favorites if Glenn can play. That is just SUCH a huge IF.

[LonghornDub]

Fitz is one of the most purely talented receivers you'll ever see. His sophomore year of college he had around 12 or 13 catches in tight triple coverage over the course of the year.

But, for whatever reason, he has never really come across as much better than Boldin, if at all.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Jones said in his PC that they didn't feel like Felix was the kind of back that could carry the full load for a team.

If they were worried at all about Barber not signing, I think they would have drafted Mendenhall.

That is a VERY fair statement, but what if the Choice pick, (a Barber clone), was to keep the Thunder and Lightning going? If you take Mendenhall you don't have lightning still unless you draft another RB where we took Choice that was a burner. Was there one available?

Just saying, that is not a guarantee that not taking Mendenhall means that we are definitely keeping Barber. It makes sense, but it is not definite.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Fitz is one of the most purely talented receivers you'll ever see. His sophomore year of college he had around 12 or 13 catches in tight triple coverage over the course of the year.

But, for whatever reason, he has never really come across as much better than Boldin, if at all.

That is because he isn't that much better than Boldin. They are both Studs.

[Male30Dan]

...back later!

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

That is because he isn't that much better than Boldin. They are both Studs.

I'm just saying it's sort of a shame, because he should be in Moss's echelon given his raw talent.

[jleefilled]

Can we get Tashard Choice to give a motivational speech to the Mavericks?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jAOkxgvboPk

[FINtastic]

The Goose just gave the Cowboys' draft a thumbs up.

[Underdog]

pick #167 - Erik Walden - DE - 6-2 - 243 - Middle Tennessee State

Anyone know anything about this guy?

[jleefilled]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Anyone know anything about this guy?

Not really other than that people are speculating that this guy might be another fullback (edit: or outside linebacker) starter-kit. His size and athleticism are almost identical to Daryl Johnston.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jleefilled

Not really other than that people are speculating that this guy might be another fullback starter-kit. His size and athleticism are almost identical to Daryl Johnston.

That's a big name to live up to - we'll be alright even if he's only half as good the Moose...

[jleefilled]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's a big name to live up to - we'll be alright even if he's only half as good the Moose...

No doubt. If they are considering turning him into a FB, I don't think anyone is under the illusion that this guy can be as good as Moose.

[mkat]

to the bengals, Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter or a 3rd/4th rounder, next year's 1st rounder for Chad Johnson.

[alby]

We don't need to make any significant moves, I consider the Barbarian part of the core of the Dallas Cowboys and I don't want to mess with the core. Sign a solid WR in free agency and we'll be fine. Our defense has drastically improved just by the Jenkins pick and the signinig of Pacman. There's no need for us to score 30 points anymore to win, just someone tell Garrett to call more running plays instead of trying to capture all the offensive records. Go Boys.

[chumdawg]

Boy, we absolutely shredded this draft.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Boy, we absolutely shredded this draft.

in a good way or bad way?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by mkat

in a good way or bad way?

Very, very good.

[Caseman]

Cowboys should use those picks they recieved for next year to tempt any teams with veteran recievers.

It must suck being a Cowboys fan (I'm actually a family-grown Redskins fan), because it's basically Superbowl or bust. It rules having no expectations for the 'skins

[DirkFTW]

Well, superbowls are obviously the ultimate prize, but I'll take a good regular season coupled with playoff victory/ies.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Yeah, thats it. And the other 11 COWBOYS players all deserved to go, right.

Whoa. Other than Roy, what Cowboy didn't deserve to make it last season? I don't think he was snubbed but I thought Bradie James was one of the best players on this team last season and he didn't make it.

[Dtownsfinest]

I see a lot of guys underrate Barber here. What he does for our crowd during home games is amazing. The way he kills the opposing teams linebackers? Everyone seems to believe he can't be a carry the load back and you're probably right but atleast wait until the guy fails at doing it before we're ready to get him out of here. Barber and a 1st for Boldin? You don't package a #1 and a pro bowler that's 25 for anyone in this league unless its for a pro bowl quarterback. I think fans are trying too hard to make this a pro bowl team. We're set at the reciever spot. If we can add Roy Williams or Boldin let's do it but let's make sure we add him and not give up key components for guys who are currently fed up with their own team. Eventually those teams will be forced to get rid of those players and we may be able to get them for cheap.

Originally Posted by mkat

to the bengals, Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter or a 3rd/4th rounder, next year's 1st rounder for Chad Johnson.

Why so much for a guy who says he's not playing next season? I'd give them a 3rd and 4th rounder for him and that's it for him. I value him the same as I do Pacman. He's one of the best receivers in the league but he has character issues and i'll be damned if I trade a starter, 3rd or 4th and next years 1st rounder for the guy?

[FINtastic]

You could have maybe made an argument that 1 or 2 other players in the NFC were maybe as deserving as a few of the Cowboys that got in, but I'd have a hard time saying that any of those 11 weren't deserving. The only player that wasn't deserving was Roy (obviously). I can't remember who were all the great NFC running backs last year, but I think I remember one that I thought at the time might have deserved it over Barber. Maybe Ryan Grant or Brandon Jacobs, but I'd kind of put both of them in the same boat as Barber in that neither of them really got a ton of carries to prove themselves.

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Boy, we absolutely shredded this draft.

I'm not upset about Da Boys' draft and trades. I think they did very well. In no particular order, these were good moves:

1)Felix Jones. He is the wide receiver the fan base and coach and owner wanted. The entire wide receiver pool was so weak that the coach and owner think that the youth we already have is just as good as any draftable wide receiver. Watch. I think Felix will line up as a wide receiver a lot. I think you will see Marion and Felix on the field at the same time. Even if Felix starts in the backfield with Marion, he goes in motion and plays as a receiver. We couldn't land a veteran wide receiver. Felix is the very best wide receiver in the draft this year and we got him.

Further, he replaces our loss in the backfield. He is the complimentary running back that the coach and owner wanted.

2)Choice. Ranked as a top 15 running back. Strength is power between the tackles and protecting a quarterback. He may actually play. He may spell Marion while Felix plays as a wide receiver either in the slot or in motion. Runs like Marion. Watched some video of him, he uses the stiff arm like Marion but not as often. Marion can teach him. Will have to deal with the new rule that says a stiff arm cannot be a slap or strike to the head...

3)Jenkins. Universally ranked as one of the cornerbacks most ready to play right now. Insurance. "can't have enough cornerbacks" replaces the previous mantra of "can't have enough linebackers" and "can't have enough defensive ends" although we picked up another defensive end who probably becomes an outside linebacker/special teams player.

4)New Tight End played for that A&M team that could run over anyone at anytime. This kid is an athlete and he can block... He was a basketball player. He is an athlete. Give him time. He may be a monstor.

5)Pacman. No risk here. Costs next to nothing with nothing guaranteed in salary. Can't even negotiate a new contract for 3 years of succesful playing with no suspensions. Costs a 4th round pick this year which is refundable next year if he doesn't work out.
Sure, he's a crook. Sure, he has escaped jail to this point by a miracle. Sure, he may be in jail for 20 years before the year is over. If that happens, we just have a delayed 4th round pick.
I think that the Titans and Cowboys punished Pacman more severely than the NFL. The only penalty the NFL can hand out here that is more severe than what the Titans and Cowboys just did to him is for the NFL to say he never plays again. That is the only imaginable punishment worse than what the Titans and Cowboys just did to him.

6)lost Ferguson, Fasano, Akin Ayodele, Jacques Reeves, Nate. I may have forgotten someone. Dallas could not afford that list of players under the salary cap rules. I think Dallas dumped Akin and Fasano just now because they had no money under the cap to even sign Felix Jones and Jenkins. Dallas also has to sign Marion Barber and Ken Hamlin. Dallas is right near the bottom of the NFL right now for available money under the cap space.

So, Dallas had to cut people. Dallas chose the players they thought they could live without even though I guarantee you those choices were hard.

[Male30Dan]

Kiper gave out one A and two B+. Everything else was B or lower.

We had one of the B+ drafts. Nice to see!

Link...

[ty]

Originally Posted by Caseman

Cowboys should use those picks they recieved for next year to tempt any teams with veteran recievers.

It must suck being a Cowboys fan (I'm actually a family-grown Redskins fan), because it's basically Superbowl or bust. It rules having no expectations for the 'skins

I'm so sorry you're a skins fan.

[nikeball]

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Kiper gave out one A and two B+. Everything else was B or lower.

We had one of the B+ drafts. Nice to see!

Link...

I think Mel Kiper is one of the few great assets that ESPN has under their employment.

He knows his stuff.

[alexamenos]

my take on the pacman deal was that it was absolutely dependent upon whether the 'boys could ensure that they didn't go into next season absolutely dependent upon pacman jones to fill out a nickel package.

as is stands, the pacman deal is an excellent deal -- ton's of upside, very little downside. if he goes out and shoots up the million dollar saloon, then all it costs the boys is a year of waiting on a 4th round pick. if he keeps his s--- together, then you've got nickel and dime packages that make it possible to send 5 and even 6 guys after the qb often....sacks, picks, negative plays, etc....

as the old saying goes, sacks come from coverage and picks come from pressure. this defense may not be sucky at all next year.

[Dirkenstien]

Great draft from the boys. and I'm really pumped about so many things that happened.

Bennett and Jones are both great upgrades on the offensive side of the ball and now we have what could potentially be the best secondary group in the league.

All we need to do now is get that #2 wide receiver and we'll be set.

[ShaggyDirk]

If Bennet would have had half of a decent quarterback AND an actual offense, I believe his numbers would have been higher. It doesn't matter now though b/c the Cowboys got some great potential. I think it will turn into something great.

[Underdog]

WR Priority Takes Backseat To Glenn, Current WRs
link


IRVING, Texas - Cowboys owner Jerry Jones is known for his ability to take risks. When it comes to draft day, he is known to gamble, and he even proved that this weekend by making six different trades.

Taking risks often comes down to playing the percentages and odds.

And long before the first pick went off the board on Saturday, Jones said he was weighing his options at the wide receiver position. He said he even made himself a chart.

Jones said he jotted down on a piece of paper all of the logical options for his team at wide receiver.

"I did a chart, sat down with everybody, I looked at all the (veteran) receivers who would fit the definition of somebody who could play opposite of Terrell (Owens), and I put the odds of who likely we were to get that," Jones said of the idea of adding a high-priced veteran, which never happened with his team or any other this weekend. "And that was one odd. I then I put, what are the odds of Terry Glenn coming back? If we got the very best receiver in the draft, what are the odds - this coming year, not in the future but this year - what are the odds there?

"What are the odds of (Sam) Hurd and those guys taking another step? You add the in-house guys and the odds of Terry Glenn up against the odds of getting a free agent and really be the balancing act, and our best odds are here right now. And they're not unrealistic odds either."

When asked for a specific number of the odds that Glenn would be able to return to form this year, Jones had a quick response.

"Fifty. Terry has a 50 percent chance of being exactly what we want, which is being a veteran guy that the defenses are afraid of," Jones said of Glenn, who had two arthroscopic knee surgeries last season that forced him to miss the first 15 games before returning just before the playoffs. "Can he be Terry Glenn and a starter? If he can be Terry Glenn and a starter, we all realize we can't do better than that. And what we're talking about is this year - this year. Just this year. At 33 years old, for this coming year, we could have a far better season than anybody younger than you, opposite of Terrell Owens."

While Jones prefers to take a long-term approach, it doesn't appear he is taking one at the wide receiver position.

When it came down to the draft, which was the first time since 1990 that no wide receiver even went in the first round, the Cowboys apparently didn't see a receiver who not only could challenge for a starting job, but even compete for playing time with the current roster.

"We liked what we have here, better than what was out there," Jones said, referring to Patrick Crayton, Hurd, Miles Austin, Isaiah Stanback and even Mike Jefferson as players who will battle for playing time next season.

Now, this isn't to say the Cowboys have no need to upgrade wide receiver.

Even Jones admitts the possibility of adding a veteran such as Cincinnati's Chad Johnson, Detroit's Roy Williams or Arizona's Anquan Boldin were certainly intriguing. Jones has said the Cowboys have inquired about a veteran receiver, likely to be one of those three, at some point this off-season.

But all three of those teams have said publicly there was no interest in trading them. This weekend, Jones said the possibility to make a trade for a receiver never materialized.

But the option was there, and it was one he even included in his chart.

But at this point, the wide receiver position appears to come down to Glenn, whose career has been in question with the latest knee injury. Set to turn 34 before training camp, Glenn has pondered the idea of undergoing microfracture surgery, which would likely forfeit his chance to play this year, and maybe ever again.

However, it doesn't appear Glenn has any intentions of having a surgery, much less hanging up the cleats. The veteran has participated in the team's off-season conditioning program, an encouraging sign for Jones.

"We saw really good stuff from here out here," Jones said. "You can talk about what he is and what he can do, but you just have to see it. He's back here, he's doing all the kind of things . . . you can't tell by that. He would be a progress-stopper if he were here and you had 10-percent odds. So if we didn't think that he didn't have a chance to be everything we wanted him to be, then we wouldn't have him back here. It would push back the progress of the other receivers."

But instead, Glenn is making his own progress, and apparently enough for Jones and the Cowboys to start counting on him for 2008.

"We're seeing everything we need to see," Jones said. "He's out here working with the quarterbacks. He's out here, and we're seeing it."

[dirno2000]

3)Jenkins. Universally ranked as one of the cornerbacks most ready to play right now. Insurance. "can't have enough cornerbacks" replaces the previous mantra of "can't have enough linebackers" and "can't have enough defensive ends" although we picked up another defensive end who probably becomes an outside linebacker/special teams player.

I don't know if I agree with this. In a 3-4 I want my strength to be at LB then at NT. Pass defense always has been and always will be about getting constant pressure. It's why the Patriots won't overpay a corner and it's why the Giants were able to essentially shut us down with a patchwork secondary in January.

I like our secondary but with Pac Man I think it may be overkill. I would have traded down from 25 and picked up a WR in the early to mid-second.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I don't know if I agree with this. In a 3-4 I want my strength to be at LB then at NT. Pass defense always has been and always will be about getting constant pressure. It's why the Patriots won't overpay a corner and it's why the Giants were able to essentially shut us down with a patchwork secondary in January.

I like our secondary but with Pac Man I think it may be overkill. I would have traded down from 25 and picked up a WR in the early to mid-second.

Not me... I would have just taken the 2nd to 3rd best WR in the draft - Manningham, with the FOURTH ROUND PICK that Jones got cute with and traded. Then you have your cake and eat it too.

In the end, it will all be OK I think. He will get something done to get us our guy or Glenn will somehow play semi well enough to carry us. Again, a TO injury without getting that #2 though just throws this team into a mode we don't want to be in.

[alby]

I don't think you can ever be too deep in the secondary, especially quality cover guys. One injury can shift everyone up the depth charts and that would spell major trouble.

In regards to the Patriots never over-paying their corners. A big part of their effective was yes, the pressure they always seemed to apply on opposing QB's. However, I think the biggest reason is that New England gets up big so early that it makes the other teams one dimensional on offense.. which pretty makes defending easy as cake IMHO.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by alby

I don't think you can ever be too deep in the secondary, especially quality cover guys. One injury can shift everyone up the depth charts and that would spell major trouble.

I'd like to have quality at every position. I'm just saying that I want my front seven, not my back four to be the strength of my defense.

In regards to the Patriots never over-paying their corners. A big part of their effective was yes, the pressure they always seemed to apply on opposing QB's. However, I think the biggest reason is that New England gets up big so early that it makes the other teams one dimensional on offense.. which pretty makes defending easy as cake IMHO.

That may have been the case this past year but they haven't always had this high powered offense. They treat CB's like the early 90's Cowboys treated LB's.

[ty]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I'd like to have quality at every position. I'm just saying that I want my front seven, not my back four to be the strength of my defense.

Isn't that what we had last season...

We have both now.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by ty

We have both now.

Truth...


This team is already a beast - I wonder what surprises Jerry has in store for us before the season begins? (insurance at WR in case Glenn can't play seems to be our only "need" right now - joy!)

[dalmations202]

The "out of nowhere" vet WR I am waiting on.

Matt Jones -- JAC

Big, and a speed guy, and needs a new start.