Steve Nash vs. Steve Francis who is the better PG?

[LRB]

OK this is the thread to post Steve Francis vs. Steve Nash comments. Please don't clutter up other thread with this argument.

[Male30Dan]

You have setup this question for failure! Had you asked "Which is the better player?" Then and ONLY then would this question have been fair!!!

Nash is probably the best point guard in the NBA next to Kidd! And that is not a certainty!

[Nash13]

As i said in the last thread, Nash has much more basketball intellegence. He also has playoff experience. I'll take that anyday over someone who can get 6rebs and 2stls a game.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
You have setup this question for failure! Had you asked "Which is the better player?" Then and ONLY then would this question have been fair!!!

Nash is probably the best point guard in the NBA next to Kidd! And that is not a certainty!

You can do another poll about who is the better player or which one would you chose 1st for your team. But I'm talking about which is the better PG, and IMO it's hands down Nash. Francis is really a two with some very good ball handling and passing skills for a two.

[dirno2000]

good point Dan. Until Franchise shows that he can consistently make those around him better, he'll just be a human highlight reel.

[ReDIRKulous]

The only thing Steve Francis does better imo is rebound... and I don't even know if that is accurate. IF Nash wanted to pad his rebounding stats I am sure he could do that very easily.

If Nash wanted to be more of a scorer than a true point guard I am positive he could do that as well. HE could probably do it as well as any point guard in the league but he chooses to make his team better which gives them a better chance of winning games.. especially with all the talent on the Mavs team.

[stevie_franchise3]

Originally posted by: Male22Dan
You have setup this question for failure! Had you asked "Which is the better player?" Then and ONLY then would this question have been fair!!!

Male22,

You are correct. he should have asked who is the better player. I have already stated that Nash is the better pure point guard. Be back, gotta run some errands before the game tonight.

[LRB]

By grndmstr_c

Oh, give me a break. You were citing statistics to try and argue that there wasn't much of a divide between Nash and Francis as PG's, irrespective of your uncharacteristically wise concession that Nash is a better PG.

I had to dig hard to find stats that support my argument, did I? Uh, assists, assists per 48, and assist to TO ratio are hardly digging. But, if your namesake shares your misguided opinion about the obscurity of those statistics I guess that goes a long way to explaining why he's such a bad point guard.

Talk all you want about Dallas' shooters and uptempo style of play. Fact is, Nash is getting better than 8 assists per game in only 33 minutes despite not having a go to low-post player, and in spite of the fact that Dallas' shooters have been off for much of the year. It also doesn't change the fact that Steve Francis, who plays on the same team with a 7'5" guy with offensive skills, would have to play 57 mpg to average as many assists as Steve Nash does in only 33 minutes. Of course, he'd also be committing just under 5.5 TO's in that amount of time, but I guess since he's the "better all around player", we won't hold that against him.

[grndmstr_c]

"And BTW Francis is willing to be team player. That is why his scoring is down this year."

No, his scoring is down because he's shooting worse than 40% from the field and only 30.5% from three.

[MavKikiNYC]

Aw hell...this isn't even a contest.

If I'd known Nash was going to be ahead 13 to freakin' 0, I'd have thrown a sympathy vote for Francis.

[Male30Dan]

Regarding being a better scorer, Nash would blow ANY point guard out of the water in scoring averages if he were on a team that forced him to do all of the shooting, (or even be the seond option)! Nash, (with this year being an exception - though his averages are rising), is a GREAT pure shooter that can hit a running J, three pointers, and free throws better than just about anyone! He is also fearless regarding attaking the lane and could easily penetrate and score if he werent so inclined to pass!

[ReDIRKulous]

In the playoffs last season Steve Nash had a better 3 point fg% than the "supposed best shooter in history -- Peja Stojakavic".

[LRB]

Francis is the most athletic. Francis is the better defender. Francis is the better rebounder.

Nash is better at making others on his team better. Nash is the better passer. Nash has better court vision. Nash is the better shooter. And most important Nash is more likely to help your team have success than Francis IMO.

[kg_veteran]

I don't care whether you phrase it as better point guard OR better player -- the result is the same.

Nash is the far superior shooter from the field, three point range, and the line. Nash is a much more efficient scorer. Nash is the better passer and takes much better care of the ball.

Francis is a better rebounder and I guess arguably a better defender (he gets a lot more steals), but neither of them would be confused with a really good defender, and the difference in rebounding doesn't make up for all the areas where Nash is superior.

[Male30Dan]

Well KG, I said ONLY then would it be FAIR! When stated that way, you cant argue it at least being close!!!

[kg_veteran]

One other thing I failed to mention. Nash has made the third team All-NBA the last two seasons. Francis has never cracked the team. When he does, perhaps this argument becomes a bit more legitimate.

[TripleDipping]

Francis is a better scorer and defender while Nash is the better ball handler and distributor. As a PG... running a play and passing the ball are the most important traits. Therefore Nash is the better PG.

Does anyome doubt that Yao Ming would be much, much better if he plays with Nash instead of Francis?

[kg_veteran]

Francis may score more points; that doesn't make him the better scorer. Look at the PPS numbers, either for this year or for their respective careers. Nash is clearly the more efficient scorer. If Nash were on a team where he took the same number of shots Francis took, he'd score more points. That makes him the better scorer, IMO.

[LRB]

Looks like someone gave Francis a charity vote.

BTW great point KG on Nash making 3rd team All-NBA while Francis has yet to make it.

[Five-ofan]

Since they are both pgs the one that is the better pg is the better player. That is Nash hands down. IMO a good way to measure a pg is how well the offense runs with him in the game. This is why earliere this year even when Best had a good assist/To ration I didnt think he was playing well because the offense bogged down with him in the game. The Mavs offense is far superior to the Rockets. Also Francis is an idiot. Anyone who would say that a team sucked(the mavs) after every game they played when his team got swept by the team he was saying sucked is an idiot.

[Chiwas]

The best way to find out myself who is better PG -or player- was answering the question, which one would you prefer playing with the Mavs, Francis or Nash?

It wasn't hard.

What about a poll choosing from Nash and Kidd?

[harsh euro barge]

Every Rockets fan that I know ABSOLUTELY HATES Steve Francis and wants him traded....

I think that speaks for itself

[dude1394]

As soon as francis's IQ gets above the freezing point of water, I'll vote for him.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: dude1394
As soon as francis's IQ gets above the freezing point of water, I'll vote for him.

Centigrade or Farenheit?

[bernardos70]

Steve Nash

Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(8.2)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.901)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Assists(310.0)
Ranks #10 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover(3.01)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Triple-doubles(1.0)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes(11.7)

Steve Francis

Ranks #13 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(5.8)
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(39.5)
Ranks #10 in the NBA in Minutes Played(1542.0)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts(211.0)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Assists(227.0)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Total Turnovers(149.0)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game(3.82)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Turnovers Per 48 Minutes(4.64)

The choice is clear

[dude1394]

It won't be to little frannie however.

[Bookit]

Originally posted by: harsh euro barge
Every Rockets fan that I know ABSOLUTELY HATES Steve Francis and wants him traded....

I think that speaks for itself

Yes indeed. This is true. My father is a die hard Rockets fan and he is always complaining how Francis makes dumb mistakes in crunch time and that he just isn't very smart.

[Drbio]

36-1. Close poll.

[OutletPass]

This poll COULD have been a bit closer last year...but Franchise is rapidly proving that he doesn't make his guys better. That's been made VERY clear after the Rox added Yao.

When you look at PG's, Nash and Kidd do THAT so much better. No contest really. Hell even Cassell does that better than Franchise...Really good player...but really half assed as a PG....

Yao would be MUCH better off playing with Nash. I'll take a PG who can play O pretty well AND who makes his teammates better...I'll take guys like Nash and Kidd over guys like Franchise and Starbury every day of the week.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Centigrade or Farenheit?

Doesn't really matter since he can't top either one.

[rakesh.s]

imo, nash...by miles..he is willing to give up the points to rack up assists and help the team win

francis still wants to play his one on one game and score 30 a night(shooting 40%)....the day he sees the light and starts passing the ball to yao ming and making sure ming gets 20 shots, i may reconsider

[Murphy3]

How do you define athleticism? I believe both are amazing with certain aspects of athleticism. Francis is a good leaper and amazingly quick. Nash has great hand-eye co-ordination as well as eye-foot. Perhaps because Nash cannot jump out of the guy, he is not considered nearly as athletic. However, that is only if you ignore other important aspects of athleticism that aren't mearsured simply by how high someone jumps.

[dude1394]

Jason Williams:

Ranks #7 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(6.8)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Assists(203.0)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover(3.69)

Steve Francis

Ranks #13 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(5.8)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Assists(227.0)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Total Turnovers(149.0)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game(3.82)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Turnovers Per 48 Minutes(4.64)

Looks like Jason Williams gives him a run for his money as well. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[dude1394]

Well where is sillie stevie, since they have just dropped into a tie with denver and are close to being out of the playoffs.

[Chiwas]

You buried -after killed- Francis with those statistics.

Next poll, please.

[Shaq Attack2]

Nash. You should be publicly hung if you think otherwise.

[nowitzki_prophecy]

Nash is a far better PG,but Francis is a better SG,and an all-around player.
Nash is one of the best players to activate A team in the league,probably after Kidd,but Francis is a better scorer,and defender.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Nash

He is one of the best point guards in the league (I would choose maybe second after Kidd). He's very good with the ball, runs the court very well and takes control of the team and of the game. And another thing, he is a true point guard that can pass the ball. I don't like point guards who shoot first and pass then.

Besides this, he is a leader. He is every moment of the game encouraging his team and do not stop until the end (even after it he continues encouraging). Before I saw him, Kidd was the best for me, but now that I have seen him, I wouldn't change nash for anybody.

[Chiwas]

Nash should keep the results of this poll for the summer.

[stevie_franchise3]

Originally posted by: Chiwas
Nash should keep the results of this poll for the summer.

Yeah we will see if he gets the max deal since he is the best point guard in the league sans Jason Kidd according to alot of folks here. We will see what Mark Cuban thinks in the summer.