Lost: The Final Season - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

nikeball · 02-03-2010, 11:44 AM

new guys

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dogan

Dogan is one of the Temple Dwellers. He appears to have a leadership position amongst the group. ("LA X, Parts 1 & 2")

Cultural Reference
* Dogan (as a noun) means "Falcon" in Turkish.
* Dogan (as an adjective) means "who/what is about to born, who/what is about to rise" in Turkish.
* Dogan is a reference to Stephen King's Dark Tower series. It's the name of a Quonset hut Susannah escapes to inside of her own head.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lennon

Lennon is one of the Temple Dwellers who is the translator for Dogan. ("LA X, Parts 1 & 2")

* The casting call described him as "Male, mid 30s to late 50s, could be any ethnicity. Scruffy, edgy and charismatic, yet can be deferential when needed; may have gone a little stir-crazy. Spokesperson and translator for the president of a foreign corporation. He facilitates the weight and power of his boss’s commands. He is a wily negotiator who is far more powerful than it seems from his position...." [1]
* He wears the same style of glasses that the musician John Lennon (whom he shares a name with, and is potentially named after) was famous for wearing.

u2sarajevo · 02-03-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

But what about the times when we hear them and its only Ben's people in the forest?

Also, we're assume that the group is actually "Richard's" and not just a special branch that stay at the temple.

Ben IS with Richard, remember? At one point they stayed behind the sonic wall but that was after the purge of the Others. Or, I guess the Others are the inhabitants and the Dharma folks were invaders that were killed off by Ben.

sike · 02-03-2010, 12:05 PM

Ben IS with Richard? I am either being to fast or too slow to comprehend this comment. Didn't Ben waste the Dharma folks? Aren't all of Ben's people (The Others) Richard's people? (Or better said, Jacob's people) When you said Richard's people I thought you meant some special group not directly connected to Ben's group of Others...was I mistaken? Did you just mean the Others?

Flacolaco · 02-03-2010, 12:12 PM

So about the ash...and don't read what I wrote last night. I was exhausted, evidently.

Ilana and Bram went to the cabin at the end of season 5 looking for Jacob...

Richard said, matter-of-factly last season that the statue is "where Jacob lives" (not the cabin)

Ben took Locke to the cabin to stage a show for him. He confirmed this. So as far as he knows (knew), the cabin was just a cabin.

But the implication now seems to be that Jacob WAS using the cabin, but isn't any more because the ash got broken? I am so confused. There isn't ash around the statue, and obviously Smokey couldn't hurt Jacob anyway....

So what's the deal with the ash around the cabin? I don't see where the logic all lines up there.

sike · 02-03-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

So about the ash...and don't read what I wrote last night. I was exhausted, evidently.

Ilana and Bram went to the cabin at the end of season 5 looking for Jacob...

Richard said, matter-of-factly last season that the statue is "where Jacob lives" (not the cabin)

Ben took Locke to the cabin to stage a show for him. He confirmed this. So as far as he knows (knew), the cabin was just a cabin.

But the implication now seems to be that Jacob WAS using the cabin, but isn't any more because the ash got broken? I am so confused. There isn't ash around the statue, and obviously Smokey couldn't hurt Jacob anyway....

So what's the deal with the ash around the cabin? I don't see where the logic all lines up there.

The Cabin was Jacob's...I have no doubt of that. When Jacob's peeps went to the Cabin...they were looking for Jacob not smoky...RIGHT???

That cabin aint no regular cabin...at times it seems to appear and disappear at will.

Is it the Cabin Hoarse was building?? (or was that just a misdirection?)

Flacolaco · 02-03-2010, 12:22 PM

For some reason, the series finale is going to be on a Sunday. May 23rd.

I guess that means they're running straight through with no breaks, however.

sike · 02-03-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

For some reason, the series finale is going to be on a Sunday. May 23rd.

I guess that means they're running straight through with no breaks, however.

I can dig that.

Flacolaco · 02-03-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

The Cabin was Jacob's...I have no doubt of that. When Jacob's peeps went to the Cabin...they were looking for Jacob not smoky...RIGHT???

That cabin aint no regular cabin...at times it seems to appear and disappear at will.

Is it the Cabin Hoarse was building?? (or was that just a misdirection?)

But what is the point?

In the 1800's Jacob was living in the foot. In 2007, he was living in the foot.

Why after Horace built the cabin (1978-1992?) did he inhabit the cabin for a little while, but then went back and it was no biggie?

Flacolaco · 02-03-2010, 12:28 PM

Let's talk about this (copied from Lostpedia)

Quote:

Sawyer climbs into the hole beneath the wreckage and briefly talks to Juliet. Juliet mumbles someting about getting coffee sometime and smiles as she says, "We can go dutch." She then seems to realize where she is, and her last words are "I have to tell you something important"

Miles later communicates, via Juliet, that "It worked"

Did Juliet like...flash to the other reality, or was she saying (because she somehow knew that other reality existed) that they could have coffee there?

I'm going to have to see that part again.

alexamenos · 02-03-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

So is the line as clearly drawn in the sand as it seems right now? Is this really coming down to a good versus evil, Team MIB vs Team Jacob FTW party? Is that what it's always been about? Feuding Gods? I think we have enough information, but it's hard to say.

I'm cool with "Fueding Gods", but I don't think it's nearly so black and white as "Good v. Evil"....or out of respect to the inverted logo I should say that it's not nearly so white and black.

Maybe Jacob is a genuine good guy, but I'm not at all convinced that is the case. About the only seemingly good thing that Jacob has done (that I can think of, anyway) is giving Hurley an ankh in a guitar case so that he coudl save Sayid....but this may well be an act of pure self-interest if indeed Jacob is Sayid (a thought that didn't occur to me last night, because I'm a little slow)....come to think of it, the inexplicably murkey waters of the spring prevented the newest set of Others from rescuing Sayid, and if Jacob muddied the waters than we can put to rest the question of whether Jacob was up to Good in bringing Sayid to that temple

Moreover, the new-Others look like the motley sort of group one might find on a 1800's era slave-trading ship, such as the Black Rock (was the Black Rock definitely slave trading?). Hence, Jacob is consorting with a group of renegrade slave traders that he invited to the island in the first place, a group about which Esau-MIB observed:

"They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same."

Seems to me to be a plausible statement about the immutability of human nature. NewLocke plainly isn't a fool and I don't think he'll become the personification of evil, even though he is literally the personification of a smoke monster.

anyhoo...I'm not sure where I'm going with this....I kind of see a progressive/ enlightenment/ liberal v. reactionary / cynical/ conservative battle rather than a good versus bad.

NewLocke represents the reactionary forces that want to maintain the old ways and Jacob is trying to mix things. Kind of like a replay of the french revolution with Esau/Locke representing the dark and dismal Church and Jacob representing...ummm....the Jacobins!

Flacolaco · 02-03-2010, 12:57 PM

I certainly don't think Jacob is an exclusively "good guy"

That smoke monster's been running around killing folks for (Jacob) knows how long and he doesn't seem too fussed about it.

alexamenos · 02-03-2010, 01:16 PM

Maybe it's best to view Esau/Locke v. Jacob in the sense one might view the Capulets v. Montagues or Hatfields v. McCoys or Crips v. Bloods.....just two gangs duking it out. Maybe we're trying to impose our on views on the story rather than seeing the story for what it is.

Also...no cleavage last night. Not one partially exposed breast in the whole damn thing.

dirno2000 · 02-03-2010, 01:22 PM

Don't really contribute to these threads because frankly I'm in over my head. I watch the show and come here for the ties to S2 E6 that I missed. I still enjoy reading since it increases my appreciation for the show and that says a lot because love it anyway.

That being said I thought the whole "I have one thing to tell you...(I'm dead)"..."nooooooo" nature of Juliet's death was really cliché. Just didn’t like the way they handled it.

I also have a question that I haven't seen addressed. Why would Hurley have been lucky instead of cursed in the alternate reality? The plane not going down wouldn’t have affected anything that that happened in the pre-crash flashbacks would it? Was it supposed to be a bizarro alternate reality? And did we see this anywhere else? Was Rose comforting Jack instead of the other way around? It seemed like it but I don't I watch close enough (or often enough) to know for sure.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-03-2010, 01:33 PM

Yes, Rose was comforting Jack, when in the original, it was reversed.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-03-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Miles later communicates, via Juliet, that "It worked"

Did Juliet like...flash to the other reality, or was she saying (because she somehow knew that other reality existed) that they could have coffee there?

I'm going to have to see that part again.

Yes, this. I think she flashed to the other reality where she has met Sawyer or something like that.

XERXES · 02-03-2010, 01:57 PM

how many, if any, of you guys have seen the movie "sliding doors?" i feel confident this is where theyre going w/season 6. if you havent seen it- rent it.

Flacolaco · 02-03-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

The plane not going down wouldn’t have affected anything that that happened in the pre-crash flashbacks would it?

It seems that they (in this time line) changed things in 1977, and 30 years worth of ripple effects have created our heroes as we now seem them on the new flight 815. Including Desmond being on the plane, for instance.

mary · 02-03-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Don't really contribute to these threads because frankly I'm in over my head. I watch the show and come here for the ties to S2 E6 that I missed. I still enjoy reading since it increases my appreciation for the show and that says a lot because love it anyway.

That being said I thought the whole "I have one thing to tell you...(I'm dead)"..."nooooooo" nature of Juliet's death was really cliché. Just didn’t like the way they handled it.

I also have a question that I haven't seen addressed. Why would Hurley have been lucky instead of cursed in the alternate reality? The plane not going down wouldn’t have affected anything that that happened in the pre-crash flashbacks would it? Was it supposed to be a bizarro alternate reality? And did we see this anywhere else? Was Rose comforting Jack instead of the other way around? It seemed like it but I don't I watch close enough (or often enough) to know for sure.

It could be that the explosion itself changed pre-crash reality.

Maybe Hurley never meets the guy that gives him the "numbers", and therefore never encounters all the bad luck. Maybe its just a miraculous coincidence that he won the lottery in the alternate time line.

Another example is Desmond. He couldn't have crashed on the island because the island is underwater now.

I don't know what would've happened that would've changed the Rose/Jack convo.

alexamenos · 02-03-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mary

It could be that the explosion itself changed pre-crash reality....Another example is Desmond. He couldn't have crashed on the island because the island is underwater now.

and of course the fist time 'round Desmond wasn't on the plane but instead he was on a boat.....Something in pre-crash reality had to change for him to get on the plane....

and Boone's sister, the skinny high-maintenance chick, where was she? She was on the plane the first time around but this time Boone said she wouldn't return with him. Granted, this may have just been a casting issue but they were obviously comfortable writing in the change in pre-crash reality.

Flacolaco · 02-03-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Is there a relationship between Island reality and sideways reality? Will they run parallel for the remainder of the season? Will they fuse together? Might one fade away?

LINDELOF: For us, the big risk that we’re taking in the final season of the show is basically this very question. [Lindelof then explains the show has replaced the trademark “whoosh!” sound effect marking the segue between Island present story and flashbacks or flash-forwards, thus calling conspicuous attention to the relationship between the Island world and the Sideways world.] This is the critical mystery of the season, which is, “What is the relationship between these two shows?” And we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.

CUSE: But the questions you’re asking are exactly the right questions. What are we to make of the fact that they’re showing us two different timelines? Are they going to resolve? Are they going to connect? Are they going to co-exist in parallel fashion? Are they going to cross? Do they intersect? Does one prove to be viable and the other one not? I think those are all the kind of speculations that are the right speculations to be having at this point in the season.

LINDELOF: But it is going to require patience. We’ve taught the audience how to be patient thus far, so while they’re getting a lot of mythological answers on the island early in the season, this idea of what is the relationship between the two [worlds] is a little bit more of a slow burn.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lo...damon-carlton/

alexamenos · 02-03-2010, 04:11 PM

I don't understand those guys when they talk.

Flacolaco · 02-03-2010, 04:18 PM

I think that's what they're going for.

ShaggyDirk · 02-03-2010, 04:32 PM

sweeet..

CadBane · 02-03-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Right - they knew that as soon as Jacob was gone, Esau would attack the temple.

How about this... Maybe Jacob and Esau can BOTH change form to smokies...

I concur. I definitely think Jacob is a white/light smokie. Remember in the very first season when they were all on the beach and clearly saw TWO opposing forces tearing through the jungle from opposite sides? I.E. Jacob & MiB.

And of course what John saw early in S1 was "the eye of the island", which I think was Jacob/light smokie.

jthig32 · 02-04-2010, 08:38 AM

Glad to see the "other show" or "alternate reality" is getting some discussion finally. I thought it was fascinating. I found it particularly intriguing when Desmond disappeared right after Jack saved Charlie. In "our" reality, Charlie died so Desmond could live. In the "new reality" Charlie was "supposed to die" (as he said) in that bathroom, and when he didn't, Desmond disappeared.

Now that may just be a subtle nod to the old story line. Desmond may have just moved seats completely innocently. But I thought it was interesting.

BTW, I don't know how much of a difference this makes, but Esau is not "inhabiting" Locke. Locke's body is on the beach for all to see. He is simply taking his form, no? Just as he's done with other dead people on the island? Now, why he knows John's thoughts I have no idea.

I thought it was cool to see the source of Richard's non-aging. And seeing the island under water was ultra-cool.

Flacolaco · 02-04-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

I thought it was cool to see the source of Richard's non-aging

How do you mean?

bobbyfg7 · 02-04-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Glad to see the "other show" or "alternate reality" is getting some discussion finally. I thought it was fascinating. I found it particularly intriguing when Desmond disappeared right after Jack saved Charlie. In "our" reality, Charlie died so Desmond could live. In the "new reality" Charlie was "supposed to die" (as he said) in that bathroom, and when he didn't, Desmond disappeared.

Also, if you look closely, the book that Desmond is reading is the book that he wanted to read just before dying back in season 2. How bout them apples? I think you’re on to something.

Charlie drowned in one "reality" and almost choked in another. Hurley is "cursed" in one and lucky in the other. So there are similarities and opposites all over. My 1st thought was that this is due to something "hydro-bomb"esque where they found another way to set things so the crash never happened and my guess is Jacob had something to do with sinking the island so the plane would never crash.

Also, did I spy another Heroes character? Wasn’t the taxi driver the puppet guy?

And I agree with that MiB is not "in" Locke's body which also seems to reason that Jacob is not "in" Sayid's. But I guess we'll find out more about that soon enough.

jthig32 · 02-04-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

How do you mean?

I'm assuming the spring is their source of regeneration, non-aging, whatever.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-04-2010, 10:50 AM

yes, great point thig. MiB (I like that better than Esau until we know his name) is not in Locke's body. He's basically made a copy or just assumed his form. Maybe Jacob works differently...

Damon and Carlton were on Kimmel Tuesday night and MINOR SPOILER BELOW!!!! (highlight to read)

Kimmel asked if Jacob was in Sayid. They responded by saying "'Something' is inhabiting Sayid"

Flacolaco · 02-04-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm assuming the spring is their source of regeneration, non-aging, whatever.

Perhaps. But as Richard is the only one we know of not aging, I think the spring might just be healing. I think we're going to get a Richard flashback this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

yes, great point thig. MiB (I like that better than Esau until we know his name) is not in Locke's body. He's basically made a copy or just assumed his form. Maybe Jacob works differently...[/COLOR]

You guys are right. The rule seems to be that he can only take the form of a dead body on the island. I wonder if the original body we saw him in in the 1800's was even his.

And given their love for The Dark Tower series, I think Darlton would prefer us call him The Man in Black rather than Esau. They actually say Man In Black themselves, I believe.

How do you guys think Widmore is going to play into all of this?

I had been assuming that Widmore would be backing one side and Ben the other, but now it looks like Ben had no clue WTF was really going on, which is funny because those people at the temple seem to.

jthig32 · 02-04-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Perhaps. But as Richard is the only one we know of not aging, I think the spring might just be healing. I think we're going to get a Richard flashback this year.

I don't think those people in the temple are aging either. But that's just a guess at this point.

nikeball · 02-04-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Perhaps. But as Richard is the only one we know of not aging, I think the spring might just be healing. I think we're going to get a Richard flashback this year.

Nestor already confirmed that this will happen in the middle of the season.

That is one back story I am most interested in seeing.

Flacolaco · 02-04-2010, 12:06 PM

They've been holding back on The Black Rock since season 1. I'd be shocked if we didn't get a Black Rock flashback this season, and everyone is assuming Richard has something to do with that.

bobbyfg7 · 02-04-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

They've been holding back on The Black Rock since season 1. I'd be shocked if we didn't get a Black Rock flashback this season, and everyone is assuming Richard has something to do with that.

Yeah and Ghost Locke hinted towards that didn't he? I think he mentioned something about slaves just before he beat the crap out of Richard so I'm thinking Richard must have been a slave on the black rock if it was indeed a slave ship.

sike · 02-04-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyfg7

Yeah and Ghost Locke hinted towards that didn't he? I think he mentioned something about slaves just before he beat the crap out of Richard so I'm thinking Richard must have been a slave on the black rock if it was indeed a slave ship.

"Its nice to see you out of those chains, Richard"...

alexamenos · 02-04-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyfg7

Yeah and Ghost Locke hinted towards that didn't he? I think he mentioned something about slaves just before he beat the crap out of Richard so I'm thinking Richard must have been a slave on the black rock if it was indeed a slave ship.

now that's an interesting thought...it ocurred to me that the newest others were from the Black Rock, but I lept to the conclusion that they were slave-traders without considering maybe they'd been slaves.

Flacolaco · 02-04-2010, 04:19 PM

How about this one...Sayid's body is being inhabited by....

Sayid from the ALT Reality!!!

DUN, DUN, DUN!!!!

I doubt it though.

ty · 02-04-2010, 04:19 PM

I hope I don't see three John Lockes in one scene.........

Kirobaito · 02-04-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Perhaps. But as Richard is the only one we know of not aging, I think the spring might just be healing. I think we're going to get a Richard flashback this year.

You guys are right. The rule seems to be that he can only take the form of a dead body on the island. I wonder if the original body we saw him in in the 1800's was even his.

And given their love for The Dark Tower series, I think Darlton would prefer us call him The Man in Black rather than Esau. They actually say Man In Black themselves, I believe.

How do you guys think Widmore is going to play into all of this?

I had been assuming that Widmore would be backing one side and Ben the other, but now it looks like Ben had no clue WTF was really going on, which is funny because those people at the temple seem to.

I think he's credited as Man-in-Black, but I've heard them use the term "Nemesis" a lot in reference to him.

nikeball · 02-05-2010, 10:58 AM