Official offseason 2013-2014 thread

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Don't care. The team has at least tripled in value and afforded Mark the opportunities such as Dancing with the Stars and Shark Tank. He has not and will not lose a single cent on running the mavs. Any money supposedly lost can recouped by the bucket loads if he decides to sell.

Can be said about almost every team in the NBA. The fact that he's outspent almost all other owners, including owners of teams with significantly higher revenue, is still significant.

[jthig32]

I'm curious to hear people justify how this roster is significantly worse than last year's. I'm not saying it's anything to be particularly excited about if they're "about the same" as last year, but I am curious to hear why smart people are thinking this roster is in shambles compared to last year.

Let's consider a hypothetical where the Mavs re-sign Brand and Wright, and sign Dalembert.

So you replace Kaman with Sammy.
You replace Collison/Mike James/Roddy/Dojo with Calderon/Harris/Mekel/Larking
You replace Mayo/Dhantay Jones/Morrow with Harris/Ellington

I mean, there's obviously some questions to be answered, but would you really bet a large amount of money that the new group fits and performs significantly worse than the old group?

Give me Dirk for a whole season and I don't buy the notion that the Mavs aren't completely capable, as of now, to put together a roster that puts them in the race for the 6-8 seed for the season.

[Murphy3]

Yes, they might be in the 6th to 8th spot..but there will be a large gap between them and the top half of the West. I guess all you can do is put the best team possible on the court without impairing your ability to make moves at the trading deadline and next summer. The team is too mediocre to tank at this point.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm curious to hear people justify how this roster is significantly worse than last year's. I'm not saying it's anything to be particularly excited about if they're "about the same" as last year, but I am curious to hear why smart people are thinking this roster is in shambles compared to last year.

Let's consider a hypothetical where the Mavs re-sign Brand and Wright, and sign Dalembert.

So you replace Kaman with Sammy.
You replace Collison/Mike James/Roddy/Dojo with Calderon/Harris/Mekel/Larking
You replace Mayo/Dhantay Jones/Morrow with Harris/Ellington

I mean, there's obviously some questions to be answered, but would you really bet a large amount of money that the new group fits and performs significantly worse than the old group?

Give me Dirk for a whole season and I don't buy the notion that the Mavs aren't completely capable, as of now, to put together a roster that puts them in the race for the 6-8 seed for the season.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I was reading all the posts slamming Dalembert.

[Murphy3]

He's an ok big man. I don't have a problem with him.. It's not going to get you anywhere close to putting you over the hump in the West and get you to the top half...

[pepe]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm curious to hear people justify how this roster is significantly worse than last year's. I'm not saying it's anything to be particularly excited about if they're "about the same" as last year, but I am curious to hear why smart people are thinking this roster is in shambles compared to last year.

Let's consider a hypothetical where the Mavs re-sign Brand and Wright, and sign Dalembert.

So you replace Kaman with Sammy.
You replace Collison/Mike James/Roddy/Dojo with Calderon/Harris/Mekel/Larking
You replace Mayo/Dhantay Jones/Morrow with Harris/Ellington

I mean, there's obviously some questions to be answered, but would you really bet a large amount of money that the new group fits and performs significantly worse than the old group?

Give me Dirk for a whole season and I don't buy the notion that the Mavs aren't completely capable, as of now, to put together a roster that puts them in the race for the 6-8 seed for the season.

This team looks like it will be worst.

Calderon a PG for a team that rarely make the playoffs...Raptors and Pistons even chase out of town by Lowry in the Toronto situation

Harris a back up for the Hawks
Dalembert a back up for the Bucks
Elliington a back up for the Cavs

Dirk, Marion and VC, mid 30's player one year older.

A West conference with improving teams....Yea they will be worse!!

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by pepe

This team looks like it will be worst.

Calderon a PG for a team that rarely make the playoffs...Raptors and Pistons even chase out of town by Lowry in the Toronto situation

Harris a back up for the Hawks
Dalembert a back up for the Bucks
Elliington a back up for the Cavs

Dirk, Marion and VC, mid 30's player one year older.

A West conference with improving teams....Yea they will be worse!!

Of course, by the end of last season, Darren Collison was backing up Mike James, the only thing OJ was doing more frequently than bricking shots was dribbling the ball off his foot in crunch time, and Chris Kaman was lucky if he could get off the bench long enough to back up his truck...

The effect that age will have on Vince's game in particular is harder to dismiss as a concern because of just how much Dallas relied on him last year. Hopefully he holds up.

[PartywithDirk]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm curious to hear people justify how this roster is significantly worse than last year's. I'm not saying it's anything to be particularly excited about if they're "about the same" as last year, but I am curious to hear why smart people are thinking this roster is in shambles compared to last year.

Let's consider a hypothetical where the Mavs re-sign Brand and Wright, and sign Dalembert.

So you replace Kaman with Sammy.
You replace Collison/Mike James/Roddy/Dojo with Calderon/Harris/Mekel/Larking
You replace Mayo/Dhantay Jones/Morrow with Harris/Ellington

I mean, there's obviously some questions to be answered, but would you really bet a large amount of money that the new group fits and performs significantly worse than the old group?

Give me Dirk for a whole season and I don't buy the notion that the Mavs aren't completely capable, as of now, to put together a roster that puts them in the race for the 6-8 seed for the season.

You're right this roster (with SD, Brand, Wright) is no worse than last year. The problem is, even with a healthy Dirk, that's not a team that competes for any type of championship. We've just slipped onto the treadmill that Cuban dreads...with little hope of jumping off (outside of the unthinkable).

Although we could always hope, with little assets, that we sign a big name free agent next year #fishhook. Definition of insanity: continue doing the same thing over and over and expect different results.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm curious to hear people justify how this roster is significantly worse than last year's. I'm not saying it's anything to be particularly excited about if they're "about the same" as last year, but I am curious to hear why smart people are thinking this roster is in shambles compared to last year.

Let's consider a hypothetical where the Mavs re-sign Brand and Wright, and sign Dalembert.

So you replace Kaman with Sammy.
You replace Collison/Mike James/Roddy/Dojo with Calderon/Harris/Mekel/Larking
You replace Mayo/Dhantay Jones/Morrow with Harris/Ellington

I mean, there's obviously some questions to be answered, but would you really bet a large amount of money that the new group fits and performs significantly worse than the old group?

Give me Dirk for a whole season and I don't buy the notion that the Mavs aren't completely capable, as of now, to put together a roster that puts them in the race for the 6-8 seed for the season.

Oh, you're absolutely right. Difference was last year, they were mostly one-year deals and we were looking forward to the possible prospect of CP3, Dwight, or both.

Now, it's longer-term deals (for some, not all), and the future prospects look bleak. So there's less to be excited about, even with a comparably good (or better) roster.

[pepe]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Of course, by the end of last season, Darren Collison was backing up Mike James, the only thing OJ was doing more frequently than bricking shots was dribbling the ball off his foot in crunch time, and Chris Kaman was lucky if he could get off the bench long enough to back up his truck...

The effect that age will have on Vince's game in particular is harder to dismiss as a concern because of just how much Dallas relied on him last year. Hopefully he holds up.

Sometimes is easier to see the flaws of the players that we have in front of us every day. But as a bunch, Mayo, Collison and Kaman are better scorers than the combination of Calderon, Harris and Dalembert. and average 11.8 RPG compare to 10.4 for the newcomers. I just don't see an overall improvement.

Hopefully the Youngsters like Wright, Ellington and the rooks contribute.

[sefant77]

Actually im pretty sure the backcourt will produce MUCH better than last year. Collison/Mayo sounds nice on the paper but if Harris gets a little bit back on track and Ellington takes the next step then it should be a nice working backcourt.

Kaman/Dalembert - worse offense, better D. Also not that big difference.

If we sign Dalembert/Wright/Brand i think the team wont look great on the paper talent level related but could definatly surprise and get more wins than people expect because the players fit in. And then you hope for a nice swing at the trade deadline.

Until we have Dirk we wont be worse than 40 wins - so no tanking anyway.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Oh, you're absolutely right. Difference was last year, they were mostly one-year deals and we were looking forward to the possible prospect of CP3, Dwight, or both.

Now, it's longer-term deals (for some, not all), and the future prospects look bleak. So there's less to be excited about, even with a comparably good (or better) roster.

Fair enough. However, last year was also a huge holding pattern waiting for the off-season. I expect the Mavs will be heavily involved in tons of trade discussions at the deadline. If there really are a high number of teams trying to tank, it might be a good opportunity to collect some assets.

It's also important to remember that the two long term deals the Mavs signed don't really affect their flexibility next year all that much.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Fair enough. However, last year was also a huge holding pattern waiting for the off-season. I expect the Mavs will be heavily involved in tons of trade discussions at the deadline. If there really are a high number of teams trying to tank, it might be a good opportunity to collect some assets.

It's also important to remember that the two long term deals the Mavs signed don't really affect their flexibility next year all that much.

Assuming dirk really is planning on taking a pay cut to the ten mil a year range, honestly well have more cap room next year than we did this year but well also have some assets to go with that space

[DisraeliGears]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Assuming dirk really is planning on taking a pay cut to the ten mil a year range, honestly well have more cap room next year than we did this year but well also have some assets to go with that space

Agreed. The only contract that can be considered perhaps "bad" would be Calderon's 7 mil, but Ellington and Harris together make 5.5, everybody else would be expiring (except for the hopefully long term but cheap Wright contract). They best not screw up on Dalembert's contract, that should be a one year for sure. 13.5+4(Wright?)+10(Dirk)=27.5 total on the books for next year ideally. 22.5 for next year assuming the cap moves up to about 60 mil. That's a full max level right there, or hopefully a Cousins max offer AND 8 mil to play with.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm curious to hear people justify how this roster is significantly worse than last year's. I'm not saying it's anything to be particularly excited about if they're "about the same" as last year, but I am curious to hear why smart people are thinking this roster is in shambles compared to last year.

Let's consider a hypothetical where the Mavs re-sign Brand and Wright, and sign Dalembert.

So you replace Kaman with Sammy.
You replace Collison/Mike James/Roddy/Dojo with Calderon/Harris/Mekel/Larking
You replace Mayo/Dhantay Jones/Morrow with Harris/Ellington

I mean, there's obviously some questions to be answered, but would you really bet a large amount of money that the new group fits and performs significantly worse than the old group?

Give me Dirk for a whole season and I don't buy the notion that the Mavs aren't completely capable, as of now, to put together a roster that puts them in the race for the 6-8 seed for the season.

Yep.

[j0Shi]

We have too many guards, but in the current situation we should still get into the mix for Henderson in my opinion.

[yahyes]

After reaching an impasse with RFA Gerald Henderson, Charlotte's exploring sign-and-trade possibilities with multiple teams, sources tell Y!

-Woj

I wonder who these multiple teams are.

[spreedom]

He's an under-the-radar type of guy that I've always kind of liked, but I don't know where he'd fit on this roster with all of our guards, and I don't know what we could send the except the ability to absorb his contract (and maybe future second round picks).

[EricaLubarsky]

If we could trade some a guard or two, Henderson might be nice.

I don't know where he shines because I didn't follow him and his base stats look pretty ordinary, but he's a top-10 SG in Value Added and PER, handles the ball well and was Charlotte's second best +/- guy.

[sefant77]

Would love right now if we could sign Dalembert and AK with the remaining 8.5m.

Then re-sign Wright.

And Brand/Oden for the minimum...

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Would love right now if we could sign Dalembert and AK with the remaining 8.5m.

Then re-sign Wright.

And Brand/Oden for the minimum...

I don't think AK would sign for 5 million, unless it's 5/25. Dalembert might sign for the full MLE, which we would have, if under the cap, am i right? We should trade Marion in that case anyway, as AK plays the same position. Would loooooove to sign Oden for the veteran minimum, Brand as well. Elton signing for that is realistic, Oden though? I think some team will definitely offer him 3 million for a year, or 2/6, or something like that. Maybe even 4 million.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm curious to hear people justify how this roster is significantly worse than last year's. I'm not saying it's anything to be particularly excited about if they're "about the same" as last year, but I am curious to hear why smart people are thinking this roster is in shambles compared to last year.

Let's consider a hypothetical where the Mavs re-sign Brand and Wright, and sign Dalembert.

So you replace Kaman with Sammy.
You replace Collison/Mike James/Roddy/Dojo with Calderon/Harris/Mekel/Larking
You replace Mayo/Dhantay Jones/Morrow with Harris/Ellington

I mean, there's obviously some questions to be answered, but would you really bet a large amount of money that the new group fits and performs significantly worse than the old group?

Give me Dirk for a whole season and I don't buy the notion that the Mavs aren't completely capable, as of now, to put together a roster that puts them in the race for the 6-8 seed for the season.

I feel comfortable stating that the roster as a whole, even without a starting center signed yet, will be worlds better than last year and we will certainly be above .500. Remember, last year's squad with a healthy Dirk put up a good fight against SA late in the season. There have been no "sexy" signings, the FO is building a team around solid fundamentals versus potential upside. The roster's upside is limited in pure scoring ability, going to have a tough time head to head with some of the better teams. But as a squad things could click and them outperform expectations. My biggest concern is how many older vets will be on the squad, how they'll hold up throughout the season, and whether or not they'll have gas left in the tank come playoff time.

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If we could trade some a guard or two, Henderson might be nice.

I don't know where he shines because I didn't follow him and his base stats look pretty ordinary, but he's a top-10 SG in Value Added and PER, handles the ball well and was Charlotte's second best +/- guy.

I wish they would've picked up Henderson over Harris. The only guards eligible to trade at this point are Larkin and Ledo. I'd like to keep Larkin around to see what he has. All other new contracts must be held until December. I guess Carter would be available but really would like to keep him.

[LSMF]

Seems like once again the Mavs have a team of Dirk and solid role players. We still need to find a Legit #2 option for Dirk. Someone who can take pressure of Dirk and help out when Dirk is having an off night. Looks to me that our #2 option as of right now is Vince Carter. How are we supposed to compete with the elite teams of the league with this roster? The MBT has to figure something out. I'm not knee-jerking or anything, but I just don't see how this team can make it out of the First Round (If they even make the playoffs).

[dalmations202]

IMO at this point:

Trade Marion to Houston for Asik straight up. This should be doable as Marion is a premier defensive guy against the Durants, LBJ, etc. and he is on his last year.

Offer AK47 3/24M -- this is 8 a year for three years.

Resign Wright.

Calderon, Mekel, Larkin,
Ellington, Harris, Carter
AK47, Crowder
Dirk, Wright
Asik, James

Carter will get some SF time. He is the instant offense off the bench.
AK can go to the PF if they go small. He is the inside player on O and outside/backside help on D -- the opposite of what Dirk does really well.
Harris can play some PG as needed.
Ellington is the defensive guy and 3pt specialist.
Caulderon is the distributor/3pt guy - Harris the offensive take it to the rim PG - rooks are gravy

Carter and Harris can do the 6th man role.

Wright is the agile Big, and Asik the solid don't get pushed around guy.
-------------------------

I just don't think you will get much better than that for this year.

If you can't work the Asik stuff out, then it works the same for Gortat.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

The only guards eligible to trade at this point are Larkin and Ledo.

That's actually not true. We can trade anyone we want unless they have trade restrictions. They just can't be combined for a net salary match.

[LSMF]

I think Granger would be a really good fit on this team. What do you folks think the Pacers would want for him?

[bobatundi]

If we do sign Dalembert, I hope it's a one-year deal. Then we have Dalembert, Marion and Carter as expirings. Go into the season seeing what we can do, but if it comes to the deadline and we're clearly not a contender, trade those three for a max money guy, to a team that's looking to clear cap for LeDouche.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by LSMF

I think Granger would be a really good fit on this team. What do you folks think the Pacers would want for him?

He's due like 12 or 13 million. Itd take a lot

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

IMO at this point:

Trade Marion to Houston for Asik straight up. This should be doable as Marion is a premier defensive guy against the Durants, LBJ, etc. and he is on his last year.

Offer AK47 3/24M -- this is 8 a year for three years.

Resign Wright.

Calderon, Mekel, Larkin,
Ellington, Harris, Carter
AK47, Crowder
Dirk, Wright
Asik, James

Carter will get some SF time. He is the instant offense off the bench.
AK can go to the PF if they go small. He is the inside player on O and outside/backside help on D -- the opposite of what Dirk does really well.
Harris can play some PG as needed.
Ellington is the defensive guy and 3pt specialist.
Caulderon is the distributor/3pt guy - Harris the offensive take it to the rim PG - rooks are gravy

Carter and Harris can do the 6th man role.

Wright is the agile Big, and Asik the solid don't get pushed around guy.
-------------------------

I just don't think you will get much better than that for this year.

If you can't work the Asik stuff out, then it works the same for Gortat.

I just do not see Houston throwing Dallas a bone like that.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by LSMF

I think Granger would be a really good fit on this team. What do you folks think the Pacers would want for him?

Bird allready told they will keep Granger, i think they even told about him being a starter (George at SG i guess).

They dumped Hansbrough, so i think they will play out the season with Granger and see how far they go. But i would make Granger a 2014 target, specially with Bulls/Deng allready in extension talks..

And again, no way in hell Morey trade Asik to the Mavs. There will be several other options available, also in the EC...

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And again, no way in hell Morey trade Asik to the Mavs.

Nor do I think the Mavs should have any interest in trading Marion--who is still a very good, well-rounded SF--to the Rockets.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Nor do I think the Mavs should have any interest in trading Marion--who is still a very good, well-rounded SF--to the Rockets.

Nah, thats a nobrainer for us. You find better replacements for a 35y old Marion than finding a young center like Asik.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Nah, thats a nobrainer for us. You find better replacements for a 35y old Marion than finding a young center like Asik.

Not my point at all. I'm not saying don't trade Marion. I'm saying don't trade him to the Rockets.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

That's actually not true. We can trade anyone we want unless they have trade restrictions. They just can't be combined for a net salary match.

I don't believe that is the case in the new CBA

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

When can a team trade a free agent it signs? Do they have to keep him forever?

Generally a team only has to keep a player for three months after signing a contract or December 151 of that season, whichever is later. This does not apply to draft picks, who can be traded 30 days after signing. For sign-and-trade transactions, the initial trade which completes the sign-and-trade obviously is allowed, even though it occurs right after the player is signed. The trade restriction in a sign-and-trade applies to the first subsequent trade.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q98

In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

• For three months or until December 15 of that season (whichever is later) after signing a contract as a free agent or matching an offer sheet to a restricted free agent. This obviously does not apply to the trade completing a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89).
• For 30 days after signing as a draft pick.

[mavs777]

Am I the only one that hopes wright gets more minutes this year? He averaged 17-8-2.5 per 36 minutes on a TS % north of 60 that is terrific and his position defense seemed to improve. As for dalembert bucks bloggers have told me he is javale like on defense, he tries to block everything and is often out of position. I'd rather take the risk on oden and go with wright/brand/Sarge when oden is hurt.

[mavs777]

Houston won't do asik/Marion swap, asik's value given his age is higher

[FromDownTown!]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Am I the only one that hopes wright gets more minutes this year?

No. I would like to see him on the floor also. I think he can become a guy other teams have to respect and plan for.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Am I the only one that hopes wright gets more minutes this year? He averaged 17-8-2.5 per 36 minutes on a TS % north of 60 that is terrific and his position defense seemed to improve. As for dalembert bucks bloggers have told me he is javale like on defense, he tries to block everything and is often out of position. I'd rather take the risk on oden and go with wright/brand/Sarge when oden is hurt.

Man I would love to see a bunch more minutes from him. I really think he could be our utility big. Depending on matchup start at C and shift to PF when Dirk comes out. Or conversely backup Dirk and see some minutes also at C in a small ball lineup. I don't think RC will make the same mistake as the first half of last year with limited minutes and a bunch of DNP-CDs.

[marc9211]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

IMO at this point:

Trade Marion to Houston for Asik straight up. This should be doable as Marion is a premier defensive guy against the Durants, LBJ, etc. and he is on his last year.

Offer AK47 3/24M -- this is 8 a year for three years.

Resign Wright.

Calderon, Mekel, Larkin,
Ellington, Harris, Carter
AK47, Crowder
Dirk, Wright
Asik, James

Carter will get some SF time. He is the instant offense off the bench.
AK can go to the PF if they go small. He is the inside player on O and outside/backside help on D -- the opposite of what Dirk does really well.
Harris can play some PG as needed.
Ellington is the defensive guy and 3pt specialist.
Caulderon is the distributor/3pt guy - Harris the offensive take it to the rim PG - rooks are gravy

Carter and Harris can do the 6th man role.

Wright is the agile Big, and Asik the solid don't get pushed around guy.
-------------------------

I just don't think you will get much better than that for this year.

If you can't work the Asik stuff out, then it works the same for Gortat.

This is for sure best case scenario like others I believe there's no way the Marion/Asik would work but maybe Gortat? I just hope we keep wright. He can get pushed around at times but if we acquire another center wright as a backup could be pretty good depth at center.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Not my point at all. I'm not saying don't trade Marion. I'm saying don't trade him to the Rockets.

Ok, i get your point and answer: The Mavs need Asik much much muuuuch more than the Rockets need Marion.

So for me its still a no-brainer