PGT: 0-3 Mavs fold, fake-ass Mavs "fans" gloat about predicting the loss

[MavsFanTillDeath]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Dumbest post I've read in a long, long, LONG time. Congrats sir, it takes a special kind of person to produce a post like that without a hint of sarcasm or irony. I'm in awe.

sorry for breaking the news but this is the truth. nba owners care about money and care less about winning a championship or a repeat. cuban spend good money to sign players the last couple years, i'll give him credit for that, but he would've never done it if this franchise wasn't profitable. he's a business man and a very good one. in order to be able to sign good players in the future he wants his franchise to still be profitable in the future, sell tickets and jerseys. ask michael jordan how his franchise been doing the last couple years..

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by MavsFanTillDeath

sorry for breaking the news but this is the truth. nba owners care about money and care less about winning a championship or a repeat. cuban spend good money to sign players the last couple years, i'll give him credit for that, but he would've never done it if this franchise wasn't profitable. he's a business man and a very good one. in order to be able to sign good players in the future he wants his franchise to still be profitable in the future, sell tickets and jerseys. ask michael jordan how his franchise been doing the last couple years..

Now you're changing your story a bit.

Here's what you said:

cuban is only thinking about the money, nothing else. postseason success is nice for us but for him it's just a bonus.

Don't change the slant and say that he cares "less" about winning than about profitability (which is still highly debatable).

Defend your position that Cuban ONLY thinks about money, and nothing else, or admit it was a dumb statement.

[saclare]

I'm glad I had to miss this game...

Looked pretty ugly out there. Here's to game five.

[MavsFanTillDeath]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Now you're changing your story a bit.

Here's what you said:



Don't change the slant and say that he cares "less" about winning than about profitability (which is still highly debatable).

Defend your position that Cuban ONLY thinks about money, and nothing else, or admit it was a dumb statement.

it was a harsh statement, but not a dumb statement in my opinion. he said that he wanted to keep tyson but at the end of the day he didn't. dirk always said during last season that tyson was the mvp of that team, and he really enjoyed playing with him. i remember in 2010 when dirk signed his contract he took less money in order to give cuban more room to operate. in 2011, dirk finally has his championship teammate and cuban lets him walk for a slim chance to sign d-will or dwight. the moment he had the chance to resign chandler he was ONLY thinking about the money in the future, not about dirk, the fans or anything else.

[EricaLubarsky]

This just in:

Even the highest rolling owners/GMs now care about their payroll because of how restrictive the cap and tax can be in the new CBA. It's not even about salary-- its about the health of the team and how hard it can become to build a good roster if a team continues to exceed the cap.

Caring about the cap doesn't mean Cuban is cheap. Salary is now, more than ever, also a strategic move for the team

[dude1394]

From the dirkster. ""We've got to win a game," Nowitzki said. "You never focus on winning four straight. We've got to show some pride on Saturday and just play a better game, move the ball, make some shots."

This has been something that has bugged me all year. I have to assume it is because of personnel, that rc just couldn't force to play differently. The Mavs ball movement since the first month has been atrocious, just atrocious. It is unrecognizable compared to last years team. I don't know its the lack of 3ptcshooters, or the lack of a lob threat in the paint.

I expect it's just vc, delonte, roddy's DNA. They all can't keep from fondling the ball. Way to slow with their decision making. I also think defenses have extended on us because of our center play.

The dirkster is not getting doubled either, they play him straight up and the opposing center just waits for a drive. Wood, Ian, wright are useless out there.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by dude1394

From the dirkster. ""We've got to win a game," Nowitzki said. "You never focus on winning four straight. We've got to show some pride on Saturday and just play a better game, move the ball, make some shots."

This has been something that has bugged me all year. I have to assume it is because of personnel, that rc just couldn't force to play differently. The Mavs ball movement since the first month has been atrocious, just atrocious. It is unrecognizable compared to last years team. I don't know its the lack of 3ptcshooters, or the lack of a lob threat in the paint.

I expect it's just vc, delonte, roddy's DNA. They all can't keep from fondling the ball. Way to slow with their decision making. I also think defenses have extended on us because of our center play.

The dirkster is not getting doubled either, they play him straight up and the opposing center just waits for a drive. Wood, Ian, wright are useless out there.

Isn't Terry Stotts the "offensive coordinator?" I think it is time to look at a replacement. The plays being run don't even look the same and are very predictable.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by MavsFanTillDeath

it was a harsh statement, but not a dumb statement in my opinion. he said that he wanted to keep tyson but at the end of the day he didn't. dirk always said during last season that tyson was the mvp of that team, and he really enjoyed playing with him. i remember in 2010 when dirk signed his contract he took less money in order to give cuban more room to operate. in 2011, dirk finally has his championship teammate and cuban lets him walk for a slim chance to sign d-will or dwight. the moment he had the chance to resign chandler he was ONLY thinking about the money in the future, not about dirk, the fans or anything else.

He was thinking about money in the future in the context of the cap, and salary flexibility, and being able to build a roster.

he wasn't thinking about his bottom line. That's absurd.

[saclare]

As to the point of ball movement...

Let me preface this post saying I support this team and what the FO did last offseason with respect to this year and the future.

It's pretty obvious as to why there is considerably less. You first have to look at the difference in personnel. The additions of West and VC and the departures of JJ, Stevenson, and TC. The two main things I notice in this new offense, is that the post-up has come more into play.

The Mavs, as a whole, ran a much slower offense this year compared to last. Now instead of Dirk posting up, you also have VC. Where as, when that second unit came in last season, you had up tempo offense, with JJ pushing the ball, creating plays and ultimately wide open looks.

At center, you now have Haywood, instead of TC. TC was known for his defense. However, he was great with the ball on offense. Simply knew where and when to pass it and great with the pick and roll. You lose that with Haywood, but you won't be paying $15MM 4 years from now.

Obvious post is obvious, but it seems most don't realize this is a much different team.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by dude1394

First it wasn't "near max", it was 13million and less than 14 mill/4'years of which one is now over. At the end of three years dirk is done and Tyson has one more year...you go out and take "Johnny capspace" and buy whichever "deron" is out there. Tyson's didn't get a 6-7 year contract. He got a contract that was on par with what he was being paid last year.

If only Cuban saw it that way...

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by saclare

As to the point of ball movement...

- too many "slow thinkers" (West, Roddy, Jet, Vince, Wood, Mihnimi, Wright, Marion)

- nobody besides Dirk sets screens (esp. Mihnimi, Wood, Wright, Yi = joke)

- not enough player movement (lazyness, old legs, frustration)

[Melonhead]

I think ts going to be a couple years before Dallas can make a serious run. They need to add at least 3/4 players and lose 3/4 players. It will take time for them to mesh. Im really curious to see how Cuban handles this offseason. You just have to know Dirk is pissed about losing TC/JJ

[thunderfan]

Originally Posted by saclare

As to the point of ball movement...

Let me preface this post saying I support this team and what the FO did last offseason with respect to this year and the future.

It's pretty obvious as to why there is considerably less. You first have to look at the difference in personnel. The additions of West and VC and the departures of JJ, Stevenson, and TC. The two main things I notice in this new offense, is that the post-up has come more into play.

The Mavs, as a whole, ran a much slower offense this year compared to last. Now instead of Dirk posting up, you also have VC. Where as, when that second unit came in last season, you had up tempo offense, with JJ pushing the ball, creating plays and ultimately wide open looks.

At center, you now have Haywood, instead of TC. TC was known for his defense. However, he was great with the ball on offense. Simply knew where and when to pass it and great with the pick and roll. You lose that with Haywood, but you won't be paying $15MM 4 years from now.

Obvious post is obvious, but it seems most don't realize this is a much different team.

Night and day. Haywood is one of the worst starting centers in the NBA. I don't mean that with disrespect. He just isn't very good. They have noone even near what Chandler was. You lost a handful of capable outside threats in Barrea, Stevenson (I think?), Butler - plus Stevenson was a good defender...and Barea was killer on offense at times - he had moments where he just abused OKC.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Isn't Terry Stotts the "offensive coordinator?" I think it is time to look at a replacement. The plays being run don't even look the same and are very predictable.

Well - they're going to be predictable when you have a large number of one dimensional players and guys who can't create offense. Even a dude like Tim Thomas, Drew Gooden, James Singleton, or Brandon Bass could take add at least the one other threat we need. Carter has had to fill that role, but when the guy doing it is predominantly a jump shooter, that's not really putting enough pressure on the defense when Dirk is out. I guess Lamar was supposed to slot in and be that guy.

[G-Man]

I didn't have any problem with jettisoning anybody not named Chandler. However we are paying Haywood 8 million, and could have had Chandler for 5 mil more. We should have amnestied Haywood, and forgot about Howard. TC is not as good as Howard, but we could have had him. The 2nd best defensive center on the league is never a bad thing to have on your roster...it is impossible to win a championship without an outstanding center and I said before the season I thought it was a mistake to let him go, in hopes of landing Howard.

But its Mark's team and Mark's money and as a 30 year Mavs fan I have to support my team, so I hoped against hope that this year's team could be good enough. But while all the contenders took a step forward, we took one step back. Then, thanks to the Lamar time bomb, we took several giant steps back. We gambled on this season and we lost.

Now we go forward with Dirk and a lot of free cash. It becomes incumbent on the MBT to put together a great team with all this flexibility they claim was worth more than Chandler. I think we underestimate how hard this will be. I always preferred going for it this year, then sucking long enough to get some great draft picks to rebuild young.

San Antonio and the Lakers are the only teams I've seen keep adding quality young players, and of course the Lakers have the league's thumb on the scale for them...the guys in SA an
are just geniuses.

But as I said before, its Mark's team and Mark's money...Its time to see what he can do with it.

[Dale4Saul2Red0]

Some people going off the deep end here. We weren't expected to repeat, never even mentioned as a potential repeat Champion, and we as fans realized going into this season winning a playoff series would be a success. Well we aren't going to win a playoff series, but everyone on here knew what this year was. We were playing chess to position ourselves for 2 potential HUGE FA signings.

Cuban is a great owner. Great businessman. Great person. The guy knows what he is doing, so I'm not going to sit there and over analyze this season and let the man that helped bring a title to the Dallas Mavericks do his job.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Dale4Saul2Red0

Some people going off the deep end here. We weren't expected to.....

Cuban told us:

"west is wide open"

"seeding does not really matter"

"once we reach the playoffs our guys will be competitive"

"team has more talent than last year"

"No to Chandler because Dwight and Deron are possible"

and so on...

And this is what fans expected at the end of the day. They expected a competitive playoff team and at least Deron in Mavs uniform next year.... let's see how it turns out.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by saclare

As to the point of ball movement...

Let me preface this post saying I support this team and what the FO did last offseason with respect to this year and the future.

It's pretty obvious as to why there is considerably less. You first have to look at the difference in personnel. The additions of West and VC and the departures of JJ, Stevenson, and TC. The two main things I notice in this new offense, is that the post-up has come more into play.

The Mavs, as a whole, ran a much slower offense this year compared to last. Now instead of Dirk posting up, you also have VC. Where as, when that second unit came in last season, you had up tempo offense, with JJ pushing the ball, creating plays and ultimately wide open looks.

At center, you now have Haywood, instead of TC. TC was known for his defense. However, he was great with the ball on offense. Simply knew where and when to pass it and great with the pick and roll. You lose that with Haywood, but you won't be paying $15MM 4 years from now.

Obvious post is obvious, but it seems most don't realize this is a much different team.

This is the same offense that was ran last year which puts a premium of spacing to get a good jump shot off. Unfortunately, the shooters never got hot. After their initial early shooting struggles, Caron, Terry, and Barea were smoking from the outside. Then Peja replace Caron. Dirk shot a career high as well, and Kidd was much better. Last year was just a perfect storm.

Fast Forward this year. Lamar was shooting a career worst. Roddy shot a career worst. Vince Carter shot a career worst. Dirk saw his shooting percentages slip to his 2nd year average. Kidd was terrible. Terry couldn't shoot on the road. This year was a nightmare. It just happens.

If Carlisle had a normal year, I could see him installing a different offense than last year. Odom, Carter, West, Wright, Ian, Marion and Roddy are all great movers w/o the ball but off the ball movement wasn't really exploited with this bunch.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Cuban told us:


"No to Chandler because Dwight and Deron are possible"

He never said this one. At least not publicly. And I guarantee his thought process on not re-signing Chandler was far more involved than "ZOMG WE CULD HAVE DERON AND DWIGHT!!!".

Everything else you quoted is either still true, or was obviously irrational confidence/organization speak.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Cuban told us:

"west is wide open"

"seeding does not really matter"

"once we reach the playoffs our guys will be competitive"

"team has more talent than last year"

"No to Chandler because Dwight and Deron are possible"

and so on...

And this is what fans expected at the end of the day. They expected a competitive playoff team and at least Deron in Mavs uniform next year.... let's see how it turns out.

What good does it do for an organization to be pessimistic? The Mavs did have a lot of talent that got real old, real quick (oh and that clown who I don't even consider a Maverick named Scrodom). Chandler doesn't have the ability to make other players younger.

Would you really rather the FO say that we suck and no Deron or Dwight then the world is over? Get real.

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The Mavs would still have major issues if they had Tyson. Their back court is completely toast. It's just done, simple as that.

So you'd have Tyson AND Haywood, Marion, Dirk...and....and...what?

You can say that you amnesty Haywood all you want, and maybe they will, but it's not like you don't have to pay him. To us, amnestying just means taking him off the cap. To Cubes it means paying someone a considerable amount of money to play for someone else.

This team achieved its pinnacle RIGHT before hit went over a cliff. The Mavs had a tough choice to make, and we still have to wait for this offseason to see the result of that decision.

Personally, I'm not sure how anyone could watch Kidd and Jet (and Dirk, honestly) and still pine for Tyson. What I pine for right now is a dynamic, two way superstar. THAT'S what this team needs to play alongside Dirk.

That's your opinion only, we don't know what would of happened if we had Ty this season. Considering he was given DPOY should tell us what is obvious: we would of been much better with Tyson Chandler. Does it guarentee a championship? Nope, nothing does. But it makes us a contender again. As far as I'm concerned we were never a true contender this year. That was my opinion after watching the Heat slaughter us on Christmas day on our home court when the team received our rings. That's supposed to be a game where you show pride, this team didn't have the talent to stay in the gym with the Heat. That was the same Heat team (+ Battier a bench player) that we beat in the Finals.

I'm somewhat of a fan of VC and West, but they've never really showed the mental toughness when it counts unlike guys that we let walk like Stevenson and JJB. I would say it's nearly impossible to let go of 5 players who helped you win a championship and replicate it by signing some players to one year or small contracts. The MBT probably did the best they could under the circumstances, but it's not the same.

I think we all were guilty of assuming/hoping what we saw all season was not really happening. We all said this team was just out of shape and the schedule was effecting us and "wait til playoff time" Well playoff time is here and we're on the verge of being swept in the first round. So we have to no longer use that as an excuse and realize this years championship was lost in free agency for us because this isn't the same team as the champs.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Considering he was given DPOY should tell us what is obvious: we would of been much better with Tyson Chandler.

But the defense wasn't the problem this season, the offense was. How is that not obvious to you? Haywood was fine until his injury, then he fell off a cliff from April on. How can someone predict that? Haywood was never Chandler, but he was never THAT bad until then.

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

DHWS you tell me if there's something I'm not aware of. As far as I'm aware Haywood is healthy now, and so is everybody on the team. We can't look back and say we were good defensively early in the season and jump to the conclusion that we don't need Chandler.What matters is how's the defense when it counts, in the playoffs and important games down the stretch. And it's been terrible.

Another thing that gets overlooked is our rebounding has been awful this year. TC is a fantastic rebounder. Kobe said it "defense and rebounding wins championships" TC gave us defense, rebounding, some ally oops from Kidd and enough scoring to where defenses can't completely ignore him, AND he was an excellent free throw shooter. I get so sick of Haywood playing volleyball by batting a rebound back up in the air instead of catching it.

I'm not just advocating keeping TC, Deshawn and JJB were very important cogs as well that would of helped us at the guard position. VC is falling apart and not showing up. West has been a decent replacement for one of them, but still overall we've lost too much clutchness/defense/toughness/rebounding.

All of that said, I believe the MBT were given a behind the scene promise that 3D was going to happen. (I have no proof of this, just my gut feeling.) So that's why all this happened. Once Dwight became a diva and wanted to go to NJ and eventually opted in, it made what happened in the offseason a disaster.

I don't think it's any secret Cubes is a gambler, he bet the farm on two free agents a year from then. One already isn't going to panout (Dwight) and even if the other does (Deron) this team has too many holes now for that to magically fix everything.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by G-Man

I didn't have any problem with jettisoning anybody not named Chandler. However we are paying Haywood 8 million, and could have had Chandler for 5 mil more. We should have amnestied Haywood, and forgot about Howard. TC is not as good as Howard, but we could have had him. The 2nd best defensive center on the league is never a bad thing to have on your roster...it is impossible to win a championship without an outstanding center and I said before the season I thought it was a mistake to let him go, in hopes of landing Howard.

But its Mark's team and Mark's money and as a 30 year Mavs fan I have to support my team, so I hoped against hope that this year's team could be good enough. But while all the contenders took a step forward, we took one step back. Then, thanks to the Lamar time bomb, we took several giant steps back. We gambled on this season and we lost.

Now we go forward with Dirk and a lot of free cash. It becomes incumbent on the MBT to put together a great team with all this flexibility they claim was worth more than Chandler. I think we underestimate how hard this will be. I always preferred going for it this year, then sucking long enough to get some great draft picks to rebuild young.

San Antonio and the Lakers are the only teams I've seen keep adding quality young players, and of course the Lakers have the league's thumb on the scale for them...the guys in SA an
are just geniuses.

But as I said before, its Mark's team and Mark's money...Its time to see what he can do with it.

This. Every top tier team got better. I dont think people realize how much of a toll this season has taken on the team mentally. Dallas took multiple steps back. The gamble was not worth it.

And as fans, we'll be questioning the move for many years. Because in order for us to get a legit center, mbt will be paying at least 12mil.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But the defense wasn't the problem this season, the offense was. How is that not obvious to you? Haywood was fine until his injury, then he fell off a cliff from April on. How can someone predict that? Haywood was never Chandler, but he was never THAT bad until then.

Lol wut? No one can cover/close out/defend the 3/you name it except Marion. It wasnt coincidence random guys were putting up career numbers against Dallas this season.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But the defense wasn't the problem this season, the offense was. How is that not obvious to you? Haywood was fine until his injury, then he fell off a cliff from April on. How can someone predict that? Haywood was never Chandler, but he was never THAT bad until then.

YES IT WAS! How many times did we hear get stops to get into our flow offense. How soft is our defense now?

And stating that Tyson was only useful on defense is just really wrong IMO.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

DHWS you tell me if there's something I'm not aware of. As far as I'm aware Haywood is healthy now, and so is everybody on the team. We can't look back and say we were good defensively early in the season and jump to the conclusion that we don't need Chandler.What matters is how's the defense when it counts, in the playoffs and important games down the stretch. And it's been terrible.

Another thing that gets overlooked is our rebounding has been awful this year. TC is a fantastic rebounder. Kobe said it "defense and rebounding wins championships" TC gave us defense, rebounding, some ally oops from Kidd and enough scoring to where defenses can't completely ignore him, AND he was an excellent free throw shooter. I get so sick of Haywood playing volleyball by batting a rebound back up in the air instead of catching it.

I'm not just advocating keeping TC, Deshawn and JJB were very important cogs as well that would of helped us at the guard position. VC is falling apart and not showing up. West has been a decent replacement for one of them, but still overall we've lost too much clutchness/defense/toughness/rebounding.

All of that said, I believe the MBT were given a behind the scene promise that 3D was going to happen. (I have no proof of this, just my gut feeling.) So that's why all this happened. Once Dwight became a diva and wanted to go to NJ and eventually opted in, it made what happened in the offseason a disaster.

I don't think it's any secret Cubes is a gambler, he bet the farm on two free agents a year from then. One already isn't going to panout (Dwight) and even if the other does (Deron) this team has too many holes now for that to magically fix everything.

I also think that having crap for center effects how far out the opponents perimeter defense can extend.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

This. Every top tier team got better. I dont think people realize how much of a toll this season has taken on the team mentally. Dallas took multiple steps back. The gamble was not worth it.

And as fans, we'll be questioning the move for many years. Because in order for us to get a legit center, mbt will be paying at least 12mil.

No way that's too much, it will handcuff us for years! Sheesh it makes me crazy. Hell even camby makes 9.2,

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Lol wut? No one can cover/close out/defend the 3/you name it except Marion. It wasnt coincidence random guys were putting up career numbers against Dallas this season.

And yet the overall numbers disagree with you. 7th in opp fg % versus 8th last year. 12th in opp 3 pt % versus 7th last year. So a small dip in 3 point defense, but not enough for me to honestly believe that defense was the problem this season. It wasn't. I really don't know how anyone could think that.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by dude1394

And stating that Tyson was only useful on defense is just really wrong IMO.

Haha, Melonhead's sig goes perfectly with your point:



Good defensive screen, Tyson!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And yet the overall numbers disagree with you. 7th in opp fg % versus 8th last year. 12th in opp 3 pt % versus 7th last year. So a small dip in 3 point defense, but not enough for me to honestly believe that defense was the problem this season. It wasn't. I really don't know how anyone could think that.

I don't know how you can rely on numbers ( dirty data as it were ) and not your eyeballs.

[jthig32]

I'm really tired of three things:

1. People pining after JJB and Stevenson. Stevenson has been one of the worst players in the NBA this season. He hit a few big shots for us and played some good defense at times, but come on. And JJB? People are remembering the Lakers series and the last two games of the finals. Go look at his game logs for the entire playoffs. He was easily replaced by West, who gave the Mavs more in the last three games than JJB did in last year's first round. If you want to argue about Tyson, fine, there's at least a debate there. Crying about not have Stevenson or Barea is absurd.

2. People saying "the gamble failed". The gamble has not "failed" yet. It hasn't even ended yet. The Mavs gambled that over the next couple of seasons they could build a better team than the one they would have had this season with Tyson. You can't say it's failed yet.

3. People saying Cuban let Tyson go for Deron and Dwight. Look, I'm sorry, but if you think Cuban looked at the situation last summer and said "jeez, I'd really like to give Tyson this contract, but there's a chance I can get Deron and/or Dwight in a year, so I can't", then you're high. Decisions like this are far more involved and complex than that. They look at the roster ramifications, they look at the salary cap implications. They look at what other players they think will be available in the near future.

The decision to not sign Tyson was a shift in philosophy based on the fact that the CBA changed the salary landscape, and that Dirk needs a star offensive player to play next two. Deron happens to fit this description, and is easily the most low hanging fruit, but there are way, way more factors involved here than just those two players.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't know how you can rely on numbers ( dirty data as it were ) and not your eyeballs.

My eyeballs certainly told me that offense was the main problem all year.

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Opp fg% doesn't account for the other team getting an offensive rebound seemingly every position and making it on their 2nd, sometimes 3rd try. Does anyone have the stats on offfensive rebounds given last year vs this year. I know Chandler would actually jump in the air and grab the ball with two hands and secure it, while I would usually see Wood bat the ball back into the air as if he's playing volleyball. Like dude said those are all eye tests, but I'd shocked if I was wrong.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't know how you can rely on numbers ( dirty data as it were ) and not your eyeballs.

Because the team has capable defenders even without Chandler. What it doesn't have is a reliable second scorer. The whole ship is sinking, but the team has two starters who don't contribute much to the scoreboard named Kidd and Haywood. 3 on 5 on offense to start games is far more of a concern imho.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Opp fg% doesn't account for the other team getting an offensive rebound seemingly every position and making it on their 2nd, sometimes 3rd try. Does anyone have the stats on offfensive rebounds given last year vs this year. I know Chandler would actually jump in the air and grab the ball with two hands and secure it, while I would usually see Wood bat the ball back into the air as if he's playing volleyball. Like dude said those are all eye tests, but I'd shocked if I was wrong.

The Mavs offensive rebounding percentages for this year (theirs and opponents) are damn near identical to last year.

Statistically speaking, based on the efficiency stats, the rebounding was essentially identical, the defense was pretty similar, and offense fell off a cliff.

Which matches what I saw. They couldn't score in a lot of games.

I'm sure Joshi will come along and give an even more detailed breakdown.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by jthig32

My eyeballs certainly told me that offense was the main problem all year.

Yes, offense was the main problem..

1.because (undersized ballhog) West could NOT replace JJB and Deshawn.

2.because ( lazy, soft ) Wood/Wright/Mihnimi could NOT replace Tyson.

3.because ( old, inconsistent ) Vince/Odom could NOT replace Peja/Butler.


Last year our offense started with good defense. We got stops and made easy transition baskets.

We also moved the ball well, spread the floor, created OPEN looks for Dirk and Jet, and JJB put lots of pressure on the opponents defense. Which made it that much easier for Jet to take over in the 4th.

And last but not least Chandler set solid screens, grabbed offensive boards, and he could finish/shoot FT's.

[fluid.forty.one]

I dunno.. I may be sick in the head, but I still think the Mavs are going to win this series.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I dunno.. I may be sick in the head, but I still think the Mavs are going to win this series.

If you don't think the Mavs are winning this series....you must be trippin. You must be on that dope.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm really tired of three things:

1. People pining after JJB and Stevenson. Stevenson has been one of the worst players in the NBA this season. He hit a few big shots for us and played some good defense at times, but come on. And JJB? People are remembering the Lakers series and the last two games of the finals. Go look at his game logs for the entire playoffs. He was easily replaced by West, who gave the Mavs more in the last three games than JJB did in last year's first round. If you want to argue about Tyson, fine, there's at least a debate there. Crying about not have Stevenson or Barea is absurd.

2. People saying "the gamble failed". The gamble has not "failed" yet. It hasn't even ended yet. The Mavs gambled that over the next couple of seasons they could build a better team than the one they would have had this season with Tyson. You can't say it's failed yet.

3. People saying Cuban let Tyson go for Deron and Dwight. Look, I'm sorry, but if you think Cuban looked at the situation last summer and said "jeez, I'd really like to give Tyson this contract, but there's a chance I can get Deron and/or Dwight in a year, so I can't", then you're high. Decisions like this are far more involved and complex than that. They look at the roster ramifications, they look at the salary cap implications. They look at what other players they think will be available in the near future.

The decision to not sign Tyson was a shift in philosophy based on the fact that the CBA changed the salary landscape, and that Dirk needs a star offensive player to play next two. Deron happens to fit this description, and is easily the most low hanging fruit, but there are way, way more factors involved here than just those two players.

I'm not pining for the loss of JJB. I certainly stressed that in another post, that I supported all offseason moves, and certainly understood them.

But I have to disagree on one point. When JJ came in, sure it was the same sets, same offense. However, his speed and aggressiveness provided something this team definitely does not have this year. And that isn't a terrible thing, but it certainly would be nice to have back. Again, no crying over last offseason going on over here.