Beckett Traded to Red Sox - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Drbio · 11-21-2005, 09:32 PM

For two prospects....breaking news on ESPN

aexchange · 11-21-2005, 09:38 PM

this totally sucks.

Drbio · 11-21-2005, 09:43 PM

Yes it does. I can't believe he was in our grasp and poof .....gone.

kg_veteran · 11-21-2005, 10:00 PM

Typical Ranger swing and miss when it comes to top pitching.

ocelot_ark · 11-21-2005, 10:00 PM

I can...we're Rangers fans. Nothing good ever happens.

Five-ofan · 11-21-2005, 10:10 PM

It was the marlins not the rangers that flubbed this one. They basically said they would rather an arias and danks package than a blalock and Danks package. That is utter stupidity especially because despite pop. belief arias is a better prospect than Ramirez.

TheMurph · 11-21-2005, 11:11 PM

I'm shocked that the Marlins took an inferior package. I can't fault the Rangers for this one. I suppose they could have thrown something else in to sweeten the pot, but they already had a superior offer on the table...

kg_veteran · 11-21-2005, 11:45 PM

Superior offer, true, but it's tough to understand why the Rangers always fall short in acquiring top-notch pitchers.

At least they have the right mindset. Go out and use Blalock and/or Gonzales to get a top pitcher.

sike · 11-21-2005, 11:54 PM

drats

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 12:37 AM

Complete CRAP!!!

Bottom line: DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO GET A GREAT, GREAT PITCHER LIKE BECKETT IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE BALLS TO FINISH THE DEAL OFF... Way to many close calls to get us excited only to drop our thoughts to "well there is always next year where Hicks MIGHT sell the team or MIGHT finally pony up."

I would give my left pinky toe to have Mark owning the Rangers and Mavs...

Did I mention Hicks can suck it?

Five-ofan · 11-22-2005, 02:15 AM

This has nothing to do with hicks. It has everything to do Loria. He is the worst owner in sports. The rangers package was MUCH better than Bostons. Once you have outbid someone you cant just keep outbidding them.

TheMurph · 11-22-2005, 02:59 AM

You can't do much more than put the best deal on the table. I'm shocked that Florida took the Boston deal. I would have thought that they'd wait awhile before making any trade instead of getting bent over.

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMurph

You can't do much more than put the best deal on the table. I'm shocked that Florida took the Boston deal. I would have thought that they'd wait awhile before making any trade instead of getting bent over.

No, thats crap... If they don't want Blalock because he is a 3B, make a different offer in which Kinsler or Arias or SOMEONE that they would accept would be moved. Don't tell me that it doesn't fall on us. It does... Florida made that move because it made more sense from a roster and financial standpoint. If thats the case, make a better offer that doesn't include your all-star 3B and give more prospects... DO WHAT IT TAKES TO LAND AN ACE... STOP COMING SO CLOSE AND THEN DROPPING OUT... BOSTON DOES WHAT IT TAKES EVERYTIME... NY DOES WHAT IT TAKES EVERYTIME...

These teams have trophies in the case while we are stuck looking like the Philadelphia Eagles' trophy case... Bare and empty with a bunch of WHAT COULD HAVE BEENS...

Ugh...

Five-ofan · 11-22-2005, 08:05 AM

Ummm i know they have one more than us and all but Bostons trophy case isnt exactly overflowing. I guarantee you we offered arias. The problem is they wanted us to match bostons deal AND throw in blalock. They wanted arias to be a throw in and he is an equal of ramirez. You dont outbid someone by that much its just stupid. Im a huge beckett fan and would love to have him for the deal that was offered but he isnt a lock or anything. The rangers made the best offer. The Marlins wanted Ramirez for whatever insanely idiotic reason. If they think he is ready to start in the majors they have another thing coming. A guy who hit 270 with an ops in the 700s in double A isnt ready to start in the bigs no matter how many tools he has. You offer the best deal and they take a worse one nothing you can do move on.

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Ummm i know they have one more than us and all but Bostons trophy case isnt exactly overflowing. I guarantee you we offered arias. The problem is they wanted us to match bostons deal AND throw in blalock. They wanted arias to be a throw in and he is an equal of ramirez. You dont outbid someone by that much its just stupid. Im a huge beckett fan and would love to have him for the deal that was offered but he isnt a lock or anything. The rangers made the best offer. The Marlins wanted Ramirez for whatever insanely idiotic reason. If they think he is ready to start in the majors they have another thing coming. A guy who hit 270 with an ops in the 700s in double A isnt ready to start in the bigs no matter how many tools he has. You offer the best deal and they take a worse one nothing you can do move on.

Dude... Even ONE championship is WAY WAY more than we have... We have some first round exits... THATS IT!!! The White Sox look like the Yankees compared to us...

As far as what we offered and what Florida requested, neither of us really know, so lets both avoid assuming we do. You don't know that they requested Danks, Arias, and Blalock, and I don't know that Texas didn't offer Arias to begin with. The bottom line is that the deal didn't get done and I am AWFUL frustrated about that.

Five-O, if you want to support Texas' front office, then you can. I have heard the story year after year after year... It has become rather old. When the opportunity to land an Ace that isn't in your division, or for that matter, in your league, YOU HAVE TO JUMP ON IT. Next year it will be Colon or Santana or whoever that IS in our league or division and then we won't even be a possible trading partner... That is why this is such a big blow... WE TRULY COULD HAVE LANDED HIM AND DID NOT PUT UP WHEN IT MATTERED...

Sure, there are question marks... He had like a 4.04 ERA away from home and had blister issues, (Texas heat is known to give you trouble with blisters), but he is young and extremely - let me repeat that again - extremely talented!

Bottom line... MAJOR LOST OPPORTUNITY!

Five-ofan · 11-22-2005, 08:35 AM

Its pretty accepted speculation though it is just speculation that they added arias and Mota to the deal at which point the rangers balked as they should have. Beckett has a top 10 arm in baseball. I would love to get him to the rangers no question but the price the rangers were asked to pay wasnt in line with what others were. When that happens you have to get out of the negotiations, you cant bid against yourself.

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Its pretty accepted speculation though it is just speculation that they added arias and Mota to the deal at which point the rangers balked as they should have. Beckett has a top 10 arm in baseball. I would love to get him to the rangers no question but the price the rangers were asked to pay wasnt in line with what others were. When that happens you have to get out of the negotiations, you cant bid against yourself.

Again, until it is said so by the Rangers organization or the Marlins organization, all it is is speculation... With that said, neither of us knows whether or not the Rangers were competing against themselves...

Even if we were, can you honestly tell me that Danks is going to become one fifth of what Beckett already is??? What about Arias? Do you know he will be in the majors within the next 3 years, (and if so, will he stay)? At what point do you package several unknowns for one badass known?

I say after your pseudo-ace leaves in free agency and the only guys you have on your pitching staff regarding starters are also a bunch of unknowns... You ante up and get Beckett, sign one of Morris, Washburn or Millwood, then pick up another reliever and another outfielder and go into the season with a GREAT offensive lineup, a MUCH IMPROVED pitching staff, and still great defense...

Eh well, we will just hold on to unknowns and lose 90... How bout that Ranger fans?

Five-ofan · 11-22-2005, 08:54 AM

I was thinking the same thing but I would rather load up and make a run at Santana, Oswalt, or prior. About your plan, there is one of worth having this year and his a 35 year old who will get 30 mil over 3 years. No thanks.

Five-ofan · 11-22-2005, 08:56 AM

I am EXTREMELY tired of the build for the future stategy but it is actually a possibility of working now so why give up when it is so close to fruition. This team isnt gonna win this year no matter what they do. A team that can realize that and see itself for what it is can make a lot of improvement in a short time.

jthig32 · 11-22-2005, 09:04 AM

You have to be careful about saying you'll do "anything" to get a pitcher in here. Beckett is great and would be our best pitcher since Kevin Brown left, but let's be careful putting him on a pedastal just yet. Becket is neither an "Ace" nor a "horse" yet. Now he certainly has the potential to be, but so far he's an oft-injured guy with great stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I really, really, REALLY, wanted him here. But when you clearly have the best offer on the table already, you have to take a stand at some point and say this is my line. They did that, and Boston took the lesser offer so they could get a position of need and not take on any salary.

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I was thinking the same thing but I would rather load up and make a run at Santana, Oswalt, or prior. About your plan, there is one of worth having this year and his a 35 year old who will get 30 mil over 3 years. No thanks.

You KNOW we won't land Santana... He will go to NY, Boston, or someone else and we will be left scratching our head thinking what could have been once more... Oswalt is much more possible but NO THANK YOU to Prior... Hasn't Justin Thompson been healthier over his career than Prior?

Regarding the pitchers I listed... I don't agree... I would take any of them and I don't think any of the three will command 10 million a year. All of them are in their early 30s also.

Washburn and Millwood both had GREAT numbers last year and Morris is better than he pitched...

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I am EXTREMELY tired of the build for the future stategy but it is actually a possibility of working now so why give up when it is so close to fruition. This team isnt gonna win this year no matter what they do. A team that can realize that and see itself for what it is can make a lot of improvement in a short time.

Five-O... How do you know we weren't going to win? If we get Young pitching like he did last year, Loe pitching like he did the last two months of last year, Beckett, and of of the free agent pitchers to go with possibly Dominguez or Rodriguez, how would you say we could not compete? Would our lineup be the downfall? I SERIOUSLY doubt it! Would our pitching be the downfall? Well it would have one HELLUVA better chance than last year... I think that we would be in maybe the best position to compete ever in our franchise... An Ace, a great second guy, and three young guys that showed promise last year.

Did you expect Chicago to win it all last year? Amazing what pitching and defense can do for you huh? Now imagine good quality pitching with our offense... Nah... I agree... 90 losses all over it!

I agree with you though... If we are now stuck in that position because we DIDNT land Beckett, it might be the best decision to hold onto this young talent and see what happens next year... I am just tired of saying that is all!

Five-ofan · 11-22-2005, 09:20 AM

I said OF well actuall of but meant OF. I dont think one pitcher helps this team any. I would honestly rather throw the youngins against the wall and see what sticks rather than throw a retread out there. That said I like any of those pitchers so I have no real problem with any of them

Five-ofan · 11-22-2005, 09:21 AM

Beckett isnt an ace. I looked in my crystal ball

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You have to be careful about saying you'll do "anything" to get a pitcher in here. Beckett is great and would be our best pitcher since Kevin Brown left, but let's be careful putting him on a pedastal just yet. Becket is neither an "Ace" nor a "horse" yet. Now he certainly has the potential to be, but so far he's an oft-injured guy with great stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I really, really, REALLY, wanted him here. But when you clearly have the best offer on the table already, you have to take a stand at some point and say this is my line. They did that, and Boston took the lesser offer so they could get a position of need and not take on any salary.

Saying we would do ANYTHING would be throwing in Tex... Let's not talk crazy... I am just saying that we have a lot of unknowns and if ONE MORE unknown would have made this work and it could have kept Blalock here, (and again, no one knows the exact details or if they definitely did request Blalock, Danks, AND Arias), then you just have to do it...

And I don't agree... I think MANY marlin fans think that they just lost their best pitcher, (and yes, I know of a fella named Dontrelle)... Just read their boards... If Beckett could be considered the best on that staff, damn well better sure know he would be an Ace here and an Ace almost anywhere else)... I never called him a horse though, as you have a point on the oft-injured thing... Like I said, he has had several issues with blisters...

Again, this is a situation that might not come up again for 5 years for our organization... To get someone with 97-99 MPH heat that actually has good stuff and not just fast pitches, well, that doesn't come around everyday... Daniels did try, and I will give him that, but now you have Blalock thinking he is on the block and no pitcher to show for it...

Just a huge missed opportunity...

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Beckett isnt an ace. I looked in my crystal ball

Hahaha... We will re-visit this ball of yours after the Red Sox win the pennant next year... Won't give them the series just yet, but I think that is rather likely too...

Male30Dan · 11-22-2005, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I said OF well actuall of but meant OF. I dont think one pitcher helps this team any. I would honestly rather throw the youngins against the wall and see what sticks rather than throw a retread out there. That said I like any of those pitchers so I have no real problem with any of them

Ahhh... Ya must capitalize that or it doesn't really come off as an acronym now does it???

Well, maybe you are right about the OF comment, but I didn't think Dellucci would be the splash he was so who knows about the other free agents... TBIA can do wonders for a players stats...

sike · 11-22-2005, 11:34 AM

how was the Ranger's offer not better?

jthig32 · 11-22-2005, 11:35 AM

For the Marlins, they needed a SS, not a 3B, and they wanted to take back as little salary as possible.

But by all other accounts, from a pure talent and value perspective, the Rangers' was superior.

Five-ofan · 11-22-2005, 11:37 AM

It cost more. That is all loria cared about. It also didnt include a major league ready ss. Unfortunately for the marlins neither did the red sox. Ramirez isnt close to being ready. Ian Kinsler is closer to being a major league ready ss than ramirez is.

birdsanctuary · 11-22-2005, 11:46 AM

That should diffuse some of the hysteria in B-town over Theo Epstein leaving.