College Football Thread for November 3rd (Week 10)

[ocelot_ark]

Man, VT just got stomped. I was hoping that was at least going to be an entertaining game. A&M sucks...they're the big12's version of arkansas. LOL.

And how about VANDY! They almost beat Florida in the swamp. That was probably the best game of the day.

[chumdawg]

Why no Chan Gailey love in this thread, you cocksmokers?

I'm a ramblin' wreck from Georgia Tech, and a helluvan engineer...

[Male30Dan]

Only UT and USC matter at this point Chum... Sorry man, thats just the way it is! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[chumdawg]

Everyone knows it was going to be UT and USC in the Rose Bowl, no matter what little VaTach decided to do! Screw VaTech!!

Who said earlier that USC has the best offense known to man, and they are coasting to the Rose Bowl? Hah. UT has a little defense for their ass. I imagine UT can win this game by double digits.

What do you think the line will be, though? I think it will be somewhere between USC-3 and pick 'em. Probably by the time it goes off it will be USC-1.5 or so. Should be a hell of a championship game. For three quarters, anyway.

[ocelot_ark]

How well respected was OU's defense going into last year's championship? Who are these offensive juggernaut's that UT is shutting down? TT? They still had over 450 yards of total offense...that's not good defense. USC has 10x's the offensive firepower of Texas Tech.

All I know is, USC is the best team I've seen Arkansas play since I've been following them (about 7 years). Like I said earlier, UT might beat them...but I don't see it and neither does most of the nation. I was reading the Sporting News this morning and they had a poll about what the outcome would be if the 2 teams met...over 70% of people surveyed felt USC would win in some fashion.

I think that, perhaps, UT fans get a little bit ahead of themselves watching UT beat up on vastly inferior teams. OSU...good team, good test. TT...not quite...and that's it. USC doesn't have that many quality wins either, though. I guess that's a hard way to compare the two.

I know I'll catch hell for this, but the Big12 creates a false sense of accomplishment every season for at least one team. This year, it's Texas. Last year it was OU. If the Big12 has one good team, that team goes to the championship. Why? The rest of the conference isn't strong enough to test that team.

With that said, I don't see any other teams out there that deserve to be #2 more than Texas. I was rooting for VT, as I appreciate their style...but that's over. Alabama has an incredible defense, but their offense will fail them against LSU and Auburn.

Hopefully UT and USC will be one of those games for the ages. I have no stake in either team, so I just hope it's close and entertaining. Last year's game was a joke. I just want some excitement. I think the biggest obstacle for Texas might be injuries, but if they can stay healthy they might make a game out of it.

[Five-ofan]

The big 12 isnt the big 10. The conference is massively underrated/overcriticized. Right now as far as conferences go its Pac 10 at the top I know I cant believe it either. Then the big 12, sec and acc are all in a jumble. The Sec is probably second followed by the big 12 followed by the incredibly overrated ACC. Tech is a hell of a lot better than you are giving them credit for Ocelot. Tech is better than everyone but maybe LSU in the SEC and better than everyone but Miami and probably VT in the ACC. However VTs supposed greatness is in question. Name one really good team they beat. Oh wait they havent beaten anyone that is that good. Tech hasnt either but i would bet you that if Tech played Vatech it would be a close game. Back to the ranking of the coferences. Ill rank the top 4 teams from each conference.
Pac 10 Big 12 SEC ACC
USC UT LSU Miami
Oregon Tech Bama VT
UCLA(maybe) Colorado Georgia FSU
Cal OU Auburn BC

Granted this hurts a conference like the SEC with more depth so they get the tiebreaker but really the strength of a conference is at the top. USC and UT are clearly the class of the nation so the PAC 10 and Big 12 get the nod for top team greatness. Second teams. They are all about even. For right now I would give the nod to Bama because they are undefeated but they have a bad loss coming and it wont be to a team as good as the one that beat any of the other 3 teams. I know im gonna get ripped for saying Tech is as good as VT but they are. VT has a great D and a decent to good O. Tech has a great O and a good to very good D. Oregon has to be in the discussion because they have lost to only USC. 3rd teams. Georgia or bama depending upon which you believe is the 3rd best team in the SEC is clearly the best team out of these, no real need to discuss why. 4th teams. Auburn. Not really close. Essentially, the big 12 and Pac 10 are the strongest at the top while the Sec has the most balance. The ACC is just overrated as hell.

[ocelot_ark]

You pretty much made my point. Consistently, from top to bottom, the SEC is the most balanced conference. One week you have Florida beating Georgia, the next you have Vanderbilt almost beating Florida. There just aren't many gimme games in the SEC (Unless you're playing arkansas!). With that said, it's undeniably harder to go undefeated in the SEC (the reason I was shocked that Auburn got snubbed last season).

The Pac10 and Big 12 each have one great team. That's all. After that there is a huge drop off (Tech is good, not great). I'll find no support on this forum, but the SEC is in a class by itself. On any given Saturday a team from another conference could beat a team from the SEC and vice versa. It's the week in/week out challenges that makes the SEC so tough.

Pretend Arkansas was good (I know it's hard..but do try!). If they somehow manage to pull off a miraculous upset of USC next season at the beginning of the year, they still have to play Tennessee, Auburn, LSU, Bama, and even South Carolina now appears to be heading in the right direction. Unlike UT, for instance, where you know that if you pass the early season test you'll only have one other potential challenge the rest of the season.

Football is such a crazy game...you never know the type of things that can happen in the course of a season. I think the probabilites of Texas going undefeated in the SEC are a lot smaller than in the Big 12. They could, no doubt...but it'd be a LOT harder.

And for the record, I love Mike Leach. He would be my second choice to replace Nutt. Tech, however, has not proven anything. I pull for them, though. If Tech wants the respect of outsiders they're going to have to stop scheduling cupcakes OR beat a good team. They have done neither this year...yet. To say that Tech is better than anyone everyone except LSU...is...comical. You think UT's defense is good (which it is - although skewed in their numbers by weak competition), imagine playing Georgia, Alabama, LSU, even Ole Miss has a good defense. The talent is just light years ahead of any other conference in the SEC (The SEC has the most former players in the NFL).

[Murphy3]

I think you can find alot of mediocrity in every conference simply because no conference is really littered with alot of impressive out of conference victories.

[Five-ofan]

I thought about moving the SEC up when I did that comparison. That said, the reason the SEC is open for upsets is because there is not a single great O in the SEC and a bunch of good Ds. That leads to the possibility of an upset. You are underrating Tech. They would be BY FAR the best O in the SEC. You think maybe the greatness of the SEC's Ds might be related to the crappiness of their offenses? Its the same argument for the pac 10 about their Os. The pac 10s Os look better because their Ds suck. You can argue that the SEC doesnt have a single GOOD offense. I wouldnt do it but its a makeable argument. If everyone tries to win the game 6-3 then there is more of a chance of an upset. Just the way it is.

[mavs413]

Originally posted by: Five-ofan
Its the same argument for the pac 10 about their Os. The pac 10s Os look better because their Ds suck..

Its the other way around, their defenses look bad because their offenses are so good. USC is giving up 350 yards a game, you better believe that if they played in any other conference it would be around 260-270.

[ocelot_ark]

Originally posted by: Five-ofan
I thought about moving the SEC up when I did that comparison. That said, the reason the SEC is open for upsets is because there is not a single great O in the SEC and a bunch of good Ds. That leads to the possibility of an upset. You are underrating Tech. They would be BY FAR the best O in the SEC. You think maybe the greatness of the SEC's Ds might be related to the crappiness of their offenses? Its the same argument for the pac 10 about their Os. The pac 10s Os look better because their Ds suck. You can argue that the SEC doesnt have a single GOOD offense. I wouldnt do it but its a makeable argument. If everyone tries to win the game 6-3 then there is more of a chance of an upset. Just the way it is.

There might not be a "great" offense, but there are plenty of GOOD offenses combined with GREAT defenses.

[Five-ofan]

See Im not real sure there is even a good O in the sec. Maybe Georgia or LSU. Texas has a GREAT O and a GREAT D.

[ocelot_ark]

Going back to my earlier post...yes, they do have both...against a very weak Big 12.

[ocelot_ark]

Going back to my earlier post...yes, they do have both...against a very weak Big 12.

[Five-ofan]

But the offenses in the big 12 are unquestionably better than the offenses in the SEC and since we are only comparing Ds I would say that is a fair comparison. Texas is so much better on O then any sec team its not even funny. I would pick texas by at least 2 tds against everyone in the sec. I agree that they would be more likely to lose a game because there are less weeks where they would just have to step on the field but lets be real, if UT shows up only 1 team in the country can play with them.

[ocelot_ark]

That's all I'm saying...and you seem to agree. If they were in the SEC they would have a higher chance of losing. Hell, they'd have to play Arkansas and that game, no matter how bad Arkansas is, never goes according to script.

As for the Big12 offenses vs SEC defenses...waste of time to argue about. However, I sincerely doubt Tech or UT (the only two above AVERAGE offenses in the Big12) would put up 400 yards of offense against LSU/Georgia/Bama. UT didn't even get to 400 yards against OSU. Are you telling me OSU is better than any team in the SEC too?

[Murphy3]

OSU better than any SEC team? Quite possibly...

[ocelot_ark]

2 SEC teams above OSU in BCS, 3 in USA today, 3 in the AP...

[Five-ofan]

Texas played like shit against OSU. OSUs is everybit as good as anyone in the SEC. Missou is at least as good offensively as anyone in the sec. Colorado is as well. If you are gonna call them average than EVERY O in the sec is average to below average.

[ocelot_ark]

Unfortunately there are two sides of the game...having a good offense is only half of the equation. Mizzou or CU would both get killed against someone like Auburn or LSU.

This is a waste of my air. You find me ONE publication that rates the Big 12 among the top 2 football conferences (a national publication). Let me save you the trouble...you won't.

Look at it this way. Arkansas used to compete for conference titles every year when they were apart of the SWC (Namely - UT, A&M). Now look at us. Go to the SEC and you instantly lose 2-3 wins a season, probably. It's not that the BEST teams in the SEC are better than the BEST teams in the Big12 or vice versa. It's that there are a lot more GOOD teams in the SEC.

[dirno2000]

The problem with the Big 12 is that the old Big 8 has turned into the SWC this year. If traditional powers like K-State, Colorado, Nebraska and OU would get they're s*it together then the Big 12 would be on par with the SEC which usually has about 5 strong teams a year.

As for Texas' offense, they put up 382 against Ohio State and Vince is a better quarterback than he was in October. That's the first game were I thought he effectively used his wideouts...in the past the tight end has been his security blanket but lately he's been seeing the whole field.

[chumdawg]

What the hell does it matter how good the also-rans in a conference are? I think this is the most overblown thing in college football.

People do tend to have a pretty good sense of who the best teams are, no matter who they play. As long as the teams are tested once or twice, at least reasonably, it's usually all good. God knows the PAC-10 hasn't been a scary deep conference, and has that diminished the team that plays for USC? I don't think so.

EVeryone also knows that the SEC is head and shoulders above everyone else in football. So what? The best teams will rise to the top, no matter who they play against. If you are good enough to be national champions...well, I guess that means you will more often than not beat everyone else you play--in your own conference or otherwise.

[ocelot_ark]

Tech is better than everyone but maybe LSU in the SEC and better than everyone but Miami and probably VT in the ACC.

Hate to kick you when you're down...but [img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img]

[Murphy3]

Who really cares? UT will be in the national title game along with USC. The SEC can play in whatever other bowl games there are... Frankly, none of them mean a damn thing. And guess what...UT will be the favorite to be back next year.

[Murphy3]

I was looking for the best out of conference win from the five ranked teams in the SEC.... I didn't see any worth mentioning.
For all we know, none of the teams are anything more than good.

[ocelot_ark]

You mean that stomping of UNT by LSU didn't convince you, Murph? Those other bowl games don't matter? Is that what you were saying last year when UT beat Mich? Surely not. The argument isn't whether UT or USC is better...it was about conferences. In particular, it was a little rub at him for that statement about Tech. Truth hurts?

UT, favorite to win it all next year? Only if VY comes back. If he doesn't, they're in trouble. UT has no QB after VY...but they sure are losing a lot to SEC schools.

[ocelot_ark]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
I was looking for the best out of conference win from the five ranked teams in the SEC.... I didn't see any worth mentioning.
For all we know, none of the teams are anything more than good.

Refresh my memory...other than the OSU game, what big OOC wins does the Big12 have?

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark

Refresh my memory...other than the OSU game, what big OOC wins does the Big12 have?

So, the Big12 has a 1-0 edge over the SEC? Wow, thanks for making my argument for me. We hear about how good the SEC is but they look rather mediocre.

[ocelot_ark]

Probably thought the same thing before the OU/LSU championship. And I was asking a legitimate question. I didn't want to look it up to see if there were any big time wins.

[endtroducing]

not to mention the STOMPING of an A&M team that took OU to the limit by Tennessee...btw, no great SEC offenses? 506 yards of total offense tonight for Auburn, and I believe we're among the tops in the country in a lot of offensive categories.

[Five-ofan]

We played like crap. We lost. Go back to my first post in this set of arguments, I put the SEC ahead of the big 12. I just said that the ACC is rediculously overrated because alot of people have listed it as the best conference. That said so when a crappy SEC team beats a good one it shows the depth of the conference but when a crappy big 12 team beats a good one it shows that the good team was overrated? Gotta love the contradiction. I agree that Mizzou or CU would lose to LSU, Bama(probably), Auburn or Georgia. Tech prolly would lose to all of them but bama. I think bama is the 2nd best team but I think tech matches up better with bama than the others.

The reason I only compared their Os is because we are comparing whether UTs D is great or not. If you question whether UTs O is great or not then I will never be able to convince you. Playing in the SEC doesnt test your D any more or even as much as playing in the big 12 does. You said that Texas looked great playing these teams. Im just saying that playing big 12 offenses tests your D more than the SEC does. The UT O would look worse but they would still put up over 40 a game if they played in the SEC.

Yes Tech lost today. Yes that pisses me off. However as long as we win next week we go to the cotton bowl which was our realistic goal all year. All isnt lost. For teams like UT the other bowls may not matter. We arent UT though so the cotton bowl does matter to us.

[Five-ofan]

We shall probably find out if I was right because Tech should play bama in the cotton bowl.

[ocelot_ark]

I don't see Bama winning that game, 5-0. Their defense is good, but Tech's offense is better. I wish Tech could play Auburn or LSU, though. Or even Georgia now that Shockley is back.

[endtroducing MASKED]

I don't think Texas Tech wants any part of us. at least not after the BEATING we laid down on Alabama.

[Five-ofan]

You are correct we want NOTHING to do with Auburn. I have been home and dont know matchups but what ive heard is probably Alabame before we left. We will beat Bama if we play. Auburn will beat us. I hate to say it. They are at least the second best 2 loss team in the NCAA behind maybe OSU and no one else. I actually think they are the best team in the sec at this point in time but hey we will play whoever. I will be there. Endtro you gonna go if Auburn goes to the Cotton Bowl?

[alby]

don't the Irish have two losses? =]

[Five-ofan]

They do, and they are the most overrated team in the country. OSU and Auburn are both better. For all the flack we took about Strength of Schedule, NDs isnt much better.

[Just211]

yeah ND's schedule really fell apart. Unfortunate. But they will get a BCS nod, and a chance to show that they're for real against OSU.

[endtroducing MASKED]

if we go to the Cotton, I'm there. if we go to the Capital One, I'm there. I'll go anywhere to support my school.

I think we're getting the Capital One bid as the #2 SEC team, though. another New Year stomping of Wisconsin is just awful. no revenue will come from that.

[Five-ofan]

I was gonna say if yall got the cotton we should meet up so you could talk trash after the game because I will definitely be there.