Is Anyone Gonna Say It?

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

He probably does see the writing on the wall.. The team's not catching the Lakers. They're the #3 seed and the rest of the regular season is pretty meaningless

“It basically looks like we've got the 3 seed locked up,” Nowitzki said

[xrobx]

i don't know what all this "3 seed locked up" nonsense is all about, when OKC is just 2.5 games back and we're losing every game

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by xrobx

i don't know what all this "3 seed locked up" nonsense is all about, when OKC is just 2.5 games back and we're losing every game

OKC just dropped 2 in a row and they have to play the Nuggets twice and the Lakers once in their last 6 games...

[Axilla]

mod edit

[Spurs Fan]

In my opinion, to worry about Dirk's mindset, is simply to ignore the body of evidence he's amassed over his career. Dirk is a winner, pure and simple. In general, he's a mild-mannered guy, but a fierce competitor. He'll give you everything he has to win. Sometimes, everything he has isn't enough to will his team to victory. That's no different than any other superstar. If I were a Mavs fan, I'd find something else more tangible to worry about.

Best of luck, I look forward to seeing y'all in the playoffs (if we both make it far enough)

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Spurs Fan

In my opinion, to worry about Dirk's mindset, is simply to ignore the body of evidence he's amassed over his career. Dirk is a winner, pure and simple. In general, he's a mild-mannered guy, but a fierce competitor. He'll give you everything he has to win. Sometimes, everything he has isn't enough to will his team to victory. That's no different than any other superstar. If I were a Mavs fan, I'd find something else more tangible to worry about.

Best of luck, I look forward to seeing y'all in the playoffs (if we both make it far enough)

It pains me to see a spurs fan come here and make so much sense. Good luck to you guys also.

[Axilla]

Originally Posted by Spurs Fan

In my opinion, to worry about Dirk's mindset, is simply to ignore the body of evidence he's amassed over his career. Dirk is a winner, pure and simple. In general, he's a mild-mannered guy, but a fierce competitor. He'll give you everything he has to win. Sometimes, everything he has isn't enough to will his team to victory. That's no different than any other superstar. If I were a Mavs fan, I'd find something else more tangible to worry about.

Best of luck, I look forward to seeing y'all in the playoffs (if we both make it far enough)

first off, good luck to the spurs as well.

2nd, i think the tangible is there to complain about.
dirk doesn't play his position the way he should. this affects the rest of the team and in basketball, it takes more than one or 2 players.

There is no doubt that dirk is superior to a vast amount of players as a specimen and collection of skills. But those skills do not and have not fostered the type of basketball that needs to be played in order to win a championship.

mavs play around the perimeter instead of inside-out--greatly because dirk doesn't like the paint.

i'm only trying to critique the philosophy and direction of the mavs. how could a valid assessment be made if the best player and focus of the offense is not mentioned?

[Spurs Fan]

Originally Posted by Axilla

first off, good luck to the spurs as well.

Thanks. We're going to need it.

Originally Posted by Axilla

2nd, i think the tangible is there to complain about.
dirk doesn't play his position the way he should. this affects the rest of the team and in basketball, it takes more than one or 2 players.

There is no doubt that dirk is superior to a vast amount of players as a specimen and collection of skills. But those skills do not and have not fostered the type of basketball that needs to be played in order to win a championship.

mavs play around the perimeter instead of inside-out--greatly because dirk doesn't like the paint.

i'm only trying to critique the philosophy and direction of the mavs. how could a valid assessment be made if the best player and focus of the offense is not mentioned?

This is your board, and your team. I understand your concern, but consider that Dirk has never been a prototypical PF. All I know is that every time the game is on the line, and Dirk puts up one of his falling-away contested floaters, I KNOW that it's going in. I just put my head down in my hands, because it just is. Is that enough to win the championship? So far, no, it hasn't been, but I just can't see putting that all on Dirk. Sure, he's your leader, and rightfully so, but he can't do it all by himself.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Axilla

first off, good luck to the spurs as well.

2nd, i think the tangible is there to complain about.
dirk doesn't play his position the way he should. this affects the rest of the team and in basketball, it takes more than one or 2 players.

There is no doubt that dirk is superior to a vast amount of players as a specimen and collection of skills. But those skills do not and have not fostered the type of basketball that needs to be played in order to win a championship.

mavs play around the perimeter instead of inside-out--greatly because dirk doesn't like the paint.

i'm only trying to critique the philosophy and direction of the mavs. how could a valid assessment be made if the best player and focus of the offense is not mentioned?

Wow, play his position the way he should? Wow, so does that mean Lebron's not flaring out to the corner waiting for Bibby to break his man down and dime him an open look, won't win him a chip? Why was Horace Grant not sticking his ass down in the low block pushing his man 2 feet from the basket and shooting, instead he's 15 from the bucket with MJ backing his man down on the low block? I go the other way, the Mavs have not been able to fill out the rotation to suit Dirk's Hall of Fame set of skills, when you have a player of his caliber, you build a team around him regardless of the "prototypical championship team." You have to pay the admission to the dance before even having a chance at the trophy. Dirk's our admission to the dance, we haven't even put together good enough pieces around him. Kidd 5 years ago, sure, but now? Dirk needs a sidekick who can consistently punish a team for doubling Dirk. If it's Allen knocking down the 20 footer consistently, or a Kobe Bryant taking the pass from Dirk and becoming a triple threat, attack, pull or draw a foul, we don't have that, Caron was pretty darn close, but now he's gone. You have to guard Dirk 15 feet out, that should open up jumpshots and driving lanes, but it doesn't because we don't have one player who can consistenly punish you on the perimeter, Jet, Peja? We don't have that one guy who can take the pass from Dirk and drive through the paiint to finish or get to the free throw line. Kobe was nothing until Pau showed up, MJ was nothing until Pippen showed up. Pierce was nothing, actually he still is nothing. But my point is regardless of skill set, if you have an admission piece to the dance, you need to find the right partners, Dallas has not found that for Dirk.....yet. Caron is close.

[Murphy3]

Yep.. posts such as Axillas kinda make me want to go blind so that I cannot read that crap anymore. It's been a long, long time since Dirk's been a perimeter guy. During the regular season, he's a high post/mid range guy with a couple of threes a game mixed in. During the playoffs, he drives the ball a bit more and gets to the line. Right now, the talent around him wouldn't win 30 games without him in the lineup..(probably not 25).

[markus1234]

Last time Dirk had a 20+PER guy by his side was... when ?

"old" Shaq's PER in 2006 was 24.47. BTW....

Last time Dirk had an "all defensive" guy on his team was... when ? (38yo Kidd ?)

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by Underdog

OKC just dropped 2 in a row and they have to play the Nuggets twice and the Lakers once in their last 6 games...

they also have 3 easy wins too. with the way we've been playing, we could lose our last 5 or go 1-4. it's not a lock by any means.

if it's a lock, we should just start resting everyone now

[Lor20]

Quite frankly... our guard play (and until this season our center play) has been the mavs biggest issue in the last 5 years. TC has plugged the center hole pretty well... the problem is that Kidd aging and then butler going down has made our positions 1-3 one of the worst in the league.
We have a lot of average guys that all don't drive the ball (Roddy doesn't do it much because he lacks confidence).

comparing the mavs to the lakers for instance....
Mavs:
http://www.82games.com/1011/1011DAL3.HTM
Lakers:
http://www.82games.com/1011/1011LAL3.HTM


the mavs
Jump 75%
Close 19%
Dunk 4%
Tips 1%

The Lakers:
Jump 69%
Close 25%
Dunk 3%
Tips 3%


Our defensive numbers are very similar to the lakers.... but they take it inside a lot more than we do. we are a better jump-shooting team than they are but close attempts are clearly more effective than jump shots - and jump shots become easier if you can collapse a defense or at least make them protect the paint a little.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by xrobx

they also have 3 easy wins too. with the way we've been playing, we could lose our last 5 or go 1-4. it's not a lock by any means.

if it's a lock, we should just start resting everyone now

Well for what it's worth, OK City is in Denver tonight and return home for LAC tomorrow night, we get the Nuggets on the 2nd of back to back. The Nuggets have better depth and are built solidly to withstand the rigors of back to backs. ON top of this, Denver's still in the race for that division being 3 out with 2 games against OK City, they take both, who knows. As for us, LAC and PHX should be W's, 2-3 at worst.

[Kidd Karma]

RC said that Kidd's resting one of the last 5, don't know when. Tc practiced and hopes to play. Dallas will not leave Texas until Game 3 of the 1st round....probably the end of April, the way the sked is drawn up.

[rabbitproof]

Thought it was 2 of 6. I don't really see the benefit of playing him any games if he's going to be spent for the playoffs. A couple games is enough for the 38 year old.

[Axilla]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Yep.. posts such as Axillas kinda make me want to go blind so that I cannot read that crap anymore. It's been a long, long time since Dirk's been a perimeter guy. During the regular season, he's a high post/mid range guy with a couple of threes a game mixed in. During the playoffs, he drives the ball a bit more and gets to the line. Right now, the talent around him wouldn't win 30 games without him in the lineup..(probably not 25).

lol how many fans, journalists, and players INCLUDING DIRK have said this is the most talented team of the Dirk era? its their opinion, not necessarily mine.

and inside-out basketball wins... its a common thread in sports. you establish yourself near the rim and it opens up the rest of the court. you establish the run and it opens the pass. you establish the fastball and then slip the changeup.
maybe you didn't notice all the alley-oops chandler and marion were getting at the beginning of the season--or when roddy was in a groove last season.

and dirk isn't an inside player. maybe you're satisfied with the backdown from 20 feet, but thats still perimeter compared to being in the paint.

he's Out Of Position and has been his entire career

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Thought it was 2 of 6. I don't really see the benefit of playing him any games if he's going to be spent for the playoffs. A couple games is enough for the 38 year old.

I see that, up to 2 games. Even the games he does suit up, no more than 24 minutes, geez, we got Barea, Roddy, Jet that can handle the spot. Sit him for NO, give him 5-6 days off before the playoffs.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Axilla

lol how many fans, journalists, and players INCLUDING DIRK have said this is the most talented team of the Dirk era? its their opinion, not necessarily mine.

and inside-out basketball wins... its a common thread in sports. you establish yourself near the rim and it opens up the rest of the court. you establish the run and it opens the pass. you establish the fastball and then slip the changeup.
maybe you didn't notice all the alley-oops chandler and marion were getting at the beginning of the season--or when roddy was in a groove last season.

and dirk isn't an inside player. maybe you're satisfied with the backdown from 20 feet, but thats still perimeter compared to being in the paint.

he's Out Of Position and has been his entire career

Some good points made in this post.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Some good points made in this post.

Two peas in a pod of stupidity.

[CadBane]

mod edit

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Axilla

and inside-out basketball wins...

QUALITY wins.

Give Dirk an all star PG or SG in the backcourt, a solid double double center, some outside shooters with good D.... and then you have a perfect core to compete with the best of them...

A PF does not need to have a big fat ass and play with the back to the basket. Just ask Kevin Garnett, who shoots jumpers all the time.

Right now, all you need to do is this....



because Dirk's teammates are simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Axilla

and inside-out basketball wins... its a common thread in sports. you establish yourself near the rim and it opens up the rest of the court.

Nope. There's very little evidence to suggest that the location a team scores has anything to do with how well they do it or how good they are as a team.

The top four teams in the league as far as points in the paint are, in order, Memphis, Clippers, Sacramento and Toronto. And those just aren't bad teams, they're bad offenses (well, Memphis isn't bad, but still below average).

This idea that where you score matters is completely false. What matters is HOW WELL, and HOW EFFICIENTLY you score. Now, it just so happens that over the course of the history of the NBA, many of its best scorers have in fact been post scorers. But that's a correlation, not a causation.

How well you score matters. Where you score doesn't.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Nope. There's very little evidence to suggest that the location a team scores has anything to do with how well they do it or how good they are as a team.

The top four teams in the league as far as points in the paint are, in order, Memphis, Clippers, Sacramento and Toronto. And those just aren't bad teams, they're bad offenses (well, Memphis isn't bad, but still below average).

This idea that where you score matters is completely false. What matters is HOW WELL, and HOW EFFICIENTLY you score. Now, it just so happens that over the course of the history of the NBA, many of its best scorers have in fact been post scorers. But that's a correlation, not a causation.

How well you score matters. Where you score doesn't.

Great post. And you didn't even have to call anyone names!

[She_Growls]

Mavs' words louder off court than on it
BY Jeff Caplan


DALLAS -- Should the Dallas Mavericks let their words on the floor speak louder than their words off it?

"We got a lot of talkers off the court," center Tyson Chandler said. "We just need them to open their mouths on the court."

Off it, the Mavs have two big mouths: owner Mark Cuban and shooting guard Jason Terry, who has contributed a good bit of off-the-floor fodder recently. But, that's not what Chandler was talking about following Tuesday's practice. He was referring to a problem that drove former coach Avery Johnson nuts. Johnson, one of the great loudmouths in the league -- although not in a bulletin-board material kind of way -- never could figure out how to get his team to be a vocal, communicative one on the floor, and primarily on the defensive end.

With five games left in the regular season and three seasons removed from Johnson's tenure, the Mavs still struggle to be an emphatically vocal unit on the defensive end and it leads to breakdowns and frustration. Chandler seized the job of traffic cop the minute he arrived in Dallas, but he can't be alone as communication, or lack of it, remains a central issue as the Mavs strive for a surge in defensive intensity and level of success in getting stops.

Chandler was asked what areas he saw from the bench (he missed the game at Portland with a bruised lower back) that he could have made a difference in a game that turned into a Portland rout: "Just our communication out there. Communication, our movement, our flow. I thought we did a great job today [during practice] of getting back to moving, our flow offense, communicating defensively. As long as we continue to do that we're fine. It's when we get out of those rhythms we have trouble."

Communication. It would seem such a fundamental part of the game for professional, veteran basketball players. How is it possible, 77 games into the season, that communication remains such a nuisance -- and a potential hindrance -- for the Mavs?

"I think personalities. We've got guys that are just not big talkers and it's just something that we've got to get used to it," Chandler said. "All good teams talk. All good teams communicate. Whether it's something you do, whether it's something you're comfortable at, you've got to make yourself comfortable at it."

That took the interview to the part that will be make all the TV and radio sound bites and instantly make one and all conjure up Jet's recent off-court chest-puffing. Chandler was asked who is the best talker on the team: "It depends if you're talking on or off the court," he said, laughing. "We got a lot of talkers off the court. We just need them to open their mouths on the court."

With five games left in the regular season, is there any reason to believe the personality of the team suddenly changes? And if the answer is no, is that not a worrisome proposition for this team's defensive prowess heading into the playoffs?

"We spent time working on that today," Carlisle said. "We're a team of guys that have very high basketball IQs, but our personality isn't too be outgoing and talkative all the time. That's a habit that we've worked on all year to develop and we've gotten better with it, and we can't allow there to be lapses. I like the fact that the players are talking about it because that means that they know it's important. "

***Now will Terry get the hint? At least somebody on the team has balls!!!

[mavs777]

"We got a lot of talkers off the court," center Tyson Chandler said. "We just need them to open their mouths on the court."

seems like Tyson is calling out the team

[CadBane]

Seems like he's calling out Terry, specifically. Who else runs their mouth off the court?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Seems like he's calling out Terry, specifically. Who else runs their mouth off the court?

Roddy might be talking a lot of merde, but who can tell?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Nope. There's very little evidence to suggest that the location a team scores has anything to do with how well they do it or how good they are as a team.

The top four teams in the league as far as points in the paint are, in order, Memphis, Clippers, Sacramento and Toronto. And those just aren't bad teams, they're bad offenses (well, Memphis isn't bad, but still below average).

This idea that where you score matters is completely false. What matters is HOW WELL, and HOW EFFICIENTLY you score. Now, it just so happens that over the course of the history of the NBA, many of its best scorers have in fact been post scorers. But that's a correlation, not a causation.

How well you score matters. Where you score doesn't.

elementary my dear watson. and great post.

[markus1234]

Terry's little butt is protected by RC. You can't call him out. The same goes for Barea.

They can do what the want, on and off the court.

[rabbitproof]

GO ON, TOP CAT.

Not that it will necessarily DO anything.....

We may have all veterans like a Boston but we mostly have veterans who made their name on the offensive side of the ball. Yes, Kidd and Marion could D it up individually, but they never played on good defensive teams in defensive-oriented environments with defensively-vocal teammates. Even in their prime, they were more known for their scoring and rebounding numbers as befitting the teams they played on. JET = all offense. Dirk is 1st, 2nd and 3rd known as a scorer. Peja ditto. Roddy's a baby French Jesus. Barea can draw charges but that's a very niche kind of defense. Stevenson and Haywood sort of qualify.

I can see this whole team (save 2-3 guys) just thinking about the next offensive possession on half the defensive series.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by markus1234

QUALITY wins.

Give Dirk an all star PG or SG in the backcourt, a solid double double center, some outside shooters with good D.... and then you have a perfect core to compete with the best of them...

A PF does not need to have a big fat ass and play with the back to the basket. Just ask Kevin Garnett, who shoots jumpers all the time.

Right now, all you need to do is this....



because Dirk's teammates are simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Excellent post.
This offseason: resign TC
trade Jet/Roddy/etc. for Nash
offer Afflalo full MLE and hope Denver doesnt match.
SF options:sign Grant Hill to a 1 year deal, resign Caron or sign and trade Caron if the opportunity presents itself(for Kirilenko for instance). or simply let his contract expire.
find an inexpensive but solid back-up to Dirk

Dallas then has a guard that can penetrate and dish and hit the 3 in Nash.
Afflalo is a legit 2 guard with size that can defend and shoot 3's.
Caron,Grant Hill, Prince etc. team with Marion for a good 2-way SF rotation.

TC/Haywood
Dirk/Mahinmi
Caron(Grant Hill)/Marion
Afflalo/Kidd/?
Nash/Kidd/JJB?

A roster loaded with competitors, excepting maybe Haywood.
Nash reinvigorates Dirk. Their pick' n roll is unstoppable. Nash gets easy buckets for himself and others.
Kidd plays 20-25 per game. if it's Hill at the 3 you have Hill, Kidd and Nash all expiring. If you can dump Haywood /Brewer Mavs can conceivably go into 2012 with only TC/Dirk/Marion/Afflalo under contract if you want to make a run at Deron Williams.

I know this is all contingent upon the new CBA&many other factors. Oh, and this season isnt over yet! But personally I'm glad that a trade for someone like G.Wallace wasnt made at the deadline. At least now there is some flexibility to remake the roster on the fly.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Nope. There's very little evidence to suggest that the location a team scores has anything to do with how well they do it or how good they are as a team.

The top four teams in the league as far as points in the paint are, in order, Memphis, Clippers, Sacramento and Toronto. And those just aren't bad teams, they're bad offenses (well, Memphis isn't bad, but still below average).

This idea that where you score matters is completely false. What matters is HOW WELL, and HOW EFFICIENTLY you score. Now, it just so happens that over the course of the history of the NBA, many of its best scorers have in fact been post scorers. But that's a correlation, not a causation.

How well you score matters. Where you score doesn't.

Nice post.

[Lor20]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Nope. There's very little evidence to suggest that the location a team scores has anything to do with how well they do it or how good they are as a team.

The top four teams in the league as far as points in the paint are, in order, Memphis, Clippers, Sacramento and Toronto. And those just aren't bad teams, they're bad offenses (well, Memphis isn't bad, but still below average).

This idea that where you score matters is completely false. What matters is HOW WELL, and HOW EFFICIENTLY you score. Now, it just so happens that over the course of the history of the NBA, many of its best scorers have in fact been post scorers. But that's a correlation, not a causation.

How well you score matters. Where you score doesn't.

yes and no.... there is a correlation between where you score and how consistently you score. the closer to the basket the less inconsistent the scoring gets which is why the mavs let other teams go on long runs and cant stop them.

there is also a correlation between how and where you score and how many fouls you draw which can make things easier for you on offense and harder for the other team. definetly something the mavs do not do well either.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by CadBane

mod edit

Why did my whole post get edited?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Lor20

yes and no.... there is a correlation between where you score and how consistently you score.

So why are the league's top 4 teams in paint points all below-average to poor offenses?

[tcat075]

To me, its not about being one of the top scorers in the paint, but rather, being able to score in the paint. A lot of teams, obviously including the Mavericks, score more points more efficiently by the jump shot. This is not limited to teams at the bottom of their division, nor to playoff teams. Some teams just happen to have players who are really good at hitting jump shots.

What draws the line with those teams and makes them great, though, is the ABILITY to temporarily move away from their strength and scoring from a different distance. In this case, we're talking jump shooters taking it inside, but it could be anything...three point shooters taking it to the hole, post players branching out to the mid range, or drivers stepping out to hit long jumpers. I'm not just talking about a play, because Rashard Lewis can take it to the bucket and Andre Miller can hit the three occasionally. I'm talking for a period of time, such as an entire half or an entire game.

Why would a team want to do this? It could be to exploit weaknesses, or to avoid strengths (don't drive on Dwight Howard, for example). It could be, and here we come back to the Mavericks, that the jump shots aren't falling, and so the offense needs to go a different direction if they want to produce.

And that's really the big problem here. The Mavericks offense has the ability to be very efficient while putting up big numbers. There's no problems on most nights just because they consistently lose the points in the paint battle. However, on nights or stretches where they struggle from shooting jumpers, the strength which the offense centers around, there's no back up plan. The Lakers can pound it inside if Kobe's off. San Antonio can clear out and let Parker slice up and down. The Magic can use Howard as a decoy and set screens for their shooters.

The Mavericks don't have that. Besides Dirk, who's game down on the block centers around shooting tough jumpers, there's no big who the Mavs can tell to score and clear out of his way. The two penetrators on the team both are wildly inconsistent, and often are only effective driving the ball when they also have their outside shot going (and that's counterproductive if the team's shooting poorly). There's no section option, not even an ability to change gears on the offense and go to something else. The jump shooting is not the issue, its the lack of anything else.

[tcat075]

Wow. That's the first double post I ever remember making. oh well...

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by markus1234

QUALITY wins.

Give Dirk an all star PG or SG in the backcourt, a solid double double center, some outside shooters with good D.... and then you have a perfect core to compete with the best of them...

A PF does not need to have a big fat ass and play with the back to the basket. Just ask Kevin Garnett, who shoots jumpers all the time.

Right now, all you need to do is this....



because Dirk's teammates are simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Great post. The crazy thing is that picture is symbolic.

[Lor20]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

So why are the league's top 4 teams in paint points all below-average to poor offenses?

because their players are some of the worst jump shooters in the league. the four teams are between 41 and 44% eFG% on jump shots. most of the good offenses in the league are around the 47-48% range.

Don't get me wrong... jump shots are important as they make up 2/3 of all shot attempts overall. The problem is that the only plan B most guys on this team have to jump shots is force feeding Dirk and hoping for the best - and even then that usually means a jump shot).

We are a one dimensional team that is fairly easy to figure out in a playoff series. This is why we consistently have good regular seasons and sub-par playoffs. We have nothing to change things up in games 2,3,4,5 etc and teams know coming into game 1 what to prepare for.

The championship teams of the past have usually not had one superstar carry the load - Kobe has Gasol and Bynum/Odom taking a lot of pressure off of him.

Pierce/Allen and Garnett... one of them having a not so great game still doesnt mean you lose.

San antonio - you never know if its ginobili or parker having a big night or possibly duncan.

even miami had shaq and wade

On the mavs team - if dirks shot doesn't fall we are pretty much screwed.