2018 NBA Draft

[Underdog]

Either this is misdirection, or Donnie has lost his damn mind...

The list of players the Mavericks won’t trade is growing
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2018/1...ade-is-growing

The list of players the Mavs would offer in a trade has become incredibly small for a lottery team. That list is basically just Nerlens Noel, Josh McRoberts, Salah Mejri, and maybe Matthews.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Either this is misdirection, or Donnie has lost his damn mind...

The list of players the Mavericks won’t trade is growing
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2018/1...ade-is-growing

Why not both?

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Either this is misdirection, or Donnie has lost his damn mind...

The list of players the Mavericks won’t trade is growing
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2018/1...ade-is-growing

Smoke and mirrors, GM gamesmanship. He knows contending teams would value Barea and Harris, and that he'd probably like to clear Powell. Or if someone came beating down the doors for Curry or Ferrell.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Either this is misdirection, or Donnie has lost his damn mind...

The list of players the Mavericks won’t trade is growing
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2018/1...ade-is-growing

Matthews? That alone keeps me optimistic.

Remember what father Don said...if my lips are moving, then you know I'm lying.

It would, however, be unwise to overvalue Yogi and Kleber. They likely carry a lot of value in a trade.

[saclare]

Still #4 but what a tide shifting week. Also now 8.5 games back of the 8th seed with Pelicans and Clippers playing well, and Nuggets still hovering around. I think the writing is on the wall for the FO now.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by saclare

Still #4 but what a tide shifting week. Also now 8.5 games back of the 8th seed with Pelicans and Clippers playing well, and Nuggets still hovering around. I think the writing is on the wall for the FO now.

Really hope we don't win more than a game or two between now and the ASB... Playoffs should be completely out of reach -- go into full, open & honest tank mode where we bench our vets and try to develop our youth.

[mac222b]

He's basically saying he wont give away useful vets on good contracts for garbage. And I don't blame him.

[EricaLubarsky]

Guys I wouldn't trade:
Smith
Kleber

End of list.

I'd even trade Dirk. He'd just get bought out and come back to us.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Guys I wouldn't trade:
Smith
Kleber

End of list.

I'd even trade Dirk. He'd just get bought out and come back to us.

I know you're joking about Dirk (I hope), bit didn't the change the rule about getting bought out and returning to your previous team after Stackhoise said something about that years ago?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by BPo001

I know you're joking about Dirk (I hope), bit didn't the change the rule about getting bought out and returning to your previous team after Stackhoise said something about that years ago?

The rule only applies to players. He can be traded, retire, and come back as an office guy.

But yeah, mostly kidding. If we're rebuilding, I want Smith and our 2018 pick hanging out with one of the best guys in league history. He makes the Mavs a reputable team and shows them that being in the NBA isn't just about making shoe/insurance commercials. It's about coming in to train every single day and about being patient with the FO and teammates.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Just learned something else I didn't know about Michael Porter Jr. His dad is an assistant coach for Missouri, and his brother is a fellow freshman on the team. Those are two factors that could definitely influence him to stay. Further explains the Mizzou pride angle too.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Just learned something else I didn't know about Michael Porter Jr. His dad is an assistant coach for Missouri, and his brother is a fellow freshman on the team. Those are two factors that could definitely influence him to stay. Further explains the Mizzou pride angle too.

I could see it either way. The dad was hired as a coach and his brother offered and reclassified so they could play together. However, I think that was done to secure Michael Jr's signature.

[mac222b]

Yeah Porter was set to go to Washington until they fired Lorenzo Romar or whoever their terrible coach was

[mac222b]

Welcome Magnum!

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Welcome Magnum!

Thank you my good man!

[mac222b]

I’m all aboard the Bamba train btw. I think the dude has the potential to make a defense- any defense- top 5 perennially. Imagine if he is a better in every way Gobert. Not saying he is but it’s possible. Have heard he doesn’t have the motor or drive that Gobert does but we have a good system that would fit him here. A year with Dirk and a few with RC and DSJ for the next decade

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I’m all aboard the Bamba train btw. I think the dude has the potential to make a defense- any defense- top 5 perennially. Imagine if he is a better in every way Gobert. Not saying he is but it’s possible. Have heard he doesn’t have the motor or drive that Gobert does but we have a good system that would fit him here. A year with Dirk and a few with RC and DSJ for the next decade

Yeah, he had a killer game tonight -- 24 points, 12 rebounds, 3 blocks, 2 steals... Also nailed a pair of threes! (2-2)

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I’m all aboard the Bamba train btw...

I feel like a DeAndre Jordan-like piece is somewhat outdated in the current NBA. It is nice to have a rebounder, shot blocker/rim protector (especially with the Mavs history of Centers), but I see Bamba's skill set as being a clear downgrade from what a player like Ayton/Bagley Jr/Doncic offer in upside & skill.

My other knock on Bamba is some scouting services have him listed at 6-9; although, everyone seems to agree his wingspan is 7-10!! And if you've ever seen any highlights of him flushing a one-hand jam you can see just how impressive his wingspan is. If the Mavericks do wind up in that 5-7 area & Bamba falls to them as the BPA, then I can live with it. Honestly, I think I still might prefer a Mikal Bridges type, maybe strongly prefer, but I can see why folks are attracted to Bamba. Also, there's always the chance Bamba can develop a mid range game & increase his FT% to a respectable level, so he's not a liability at the end of the game.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

I feel like a DeAndre Jordan-like piece is somewhat outdated in the current NBA. It is nice to have a rebounder, shot blocker/rim protector (especially with the Mavs history of Centers), but I see Bamba's skill set as being a clear downgrade from what a player like Ayton/Bagley Jr/Doncic offer in upside & skill.

My other knock on Bamba is some scouting services have him listed at 6-9; although, everyone seems to agree his wingspan is 7-10!! And if you've ever seen any highlights of him flushing a one-hand jam you can see just how impressive his wingspan is. If the Mavericks do wind up in that 5-7 area & Bamba falls to them as the BPA, then I can live with it. Honestly, I think I still might prefer a Mikal Bridges type, maybe strongly prefer, but I can see why folks are attracted to Bamba. Also, there's always the chance Bamba can develop a mid range game & increase his FT% to a respectable level, so he's not a liability at the end of the game.

I totally can see that line of thinking and not even saying its wrong. Small ball rules the day. But Gobert is still an incredibly valuable piece that any team would kill to have. And from what I've seen and read Bamba has the potential to be better offensively and defensively. Doesn't mean he will be. It would take time and patience and who knows if he has the mentality or intangibles. But Bamba looks pretty freakish to me and if he ever puts it together it could be scary good. In 5 years he and Junior would both be around 25 and ready to enter their prime together. Can you imagine that pick and roll?

I also really like Mikal Bridges a lot and wouldn't be bummed to have him at all. He has some of the non-flashy game and athleticism of Kawhi. Starting to really warm to him and feel like this is might be an 8! man draft after all

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I totally can see that line of thinking and not even saying its wrong. Small ball rules the day. But Gobert is still an incredibly valuable piece that any team would kill to have. And from what I've seen and read Bamba has the potential to be better offensively and defensively. Doesn't mean he will be. It would take time and patience and who knows if he has the mentality or intangibles. But Bamba looks pretty freakish to me and if he ever puts it together it could be scary good. In 5 years he and Junior would both be around 25 and ready to enter their prime together. Can you imagine that pick and roll?

I also really like Mikal Bridges a lot and wouldn't be bummed to have him at all. He has some of the non-flashy game and athleticism of Kawhi. Starting to really warm to him and feel like this is might be an 8! man draft after all

I've watched some more videos & read some more mocks/fan forums/etc. There does seem to be a strong sentiment for Bamba. Some people actually have him rated ahead of Ayton and Bagley. Some people really like Bamba's upside, including on the offensive end, and some people think Ayton is underdeveloped and more in a project mold.

I gotta admit after looking at some more clips of Bamba he has more upside on the offensive end than I was giving him credit for. He has some touch on his jumper and his overall form isn't awful. He shoots 61.9% from the line on 3.3 FTA per game, so that tells you his floor is decent for a shot blocker. He gets very little arch on his jump shot, and his release point is far too low. So, he really needs to totally break his shot down & rework the mechanics from the beginning. For example, if he were a 6-2 guard shooting that flat and with a release point that low, he'd get 1/3 of his shots blocked. He's only able to get away with it because of his height & wingspan. In the pros that's going to have to change for him to increase his percentages. I do agree that he has the tools to develop into a decent, if not above average, shooter tho. Although, I'll also say his shot selection at times is atrocious. I think Carlisle would cure him of that pretty quickly tho lol.

I don't see it with Ayton being a project. I'll leave the door open that there's more weaknesses to his game than I originally indicated because it seems to be a prevailing thought & I haven't watched much more than 30-45 min worth of Youtube highlights on the guy. Still, we're 20 games into a college season here & Ayton is averaging 19.7 ppg compared to a guy like Bamba at 12.4 ppg. Ayton also shoots 71.6 % from the line on 5.1 FTA per game, so I think there's a clear edge in his shooting ability. Ayton's form is much more polished too. He could stand to not bring the ball down so low before his release as often & finish a bit higher in his release point, but he has a much better follow through motion than Bamba & better touch, rotation on his ball. His jump shot is much more NBA ready.

Ayton may also be the better rebounder, although they're both superior. Clearly Bamba is a special shot blocker. One of the shots I watched him block vs either Duke or Kansas was incredible going back across is body with his left hand to block the shot at its apex. Very special shot blocker.

I really can't knock Bagley for much. Any deficiencies he has, and you're just forced to remember he could be a high school senior right now. Bagley does seem like the weaker of the 3 on defense, but also a much better scorer around the basket than Ayton is and definitely Bamba. Just looked up Bagley's FT% this yr, 61.7% on 7.0 FTA, yuck! Bagley's form looks solid imo, from what I've seen anyways. Those results leave a lot to be desired tho.

Boy, what I saw from Trae Young tonight was impressive vs Kansas. Basically, said so everyone thinks I'm just a scorer & 3 point shooter? Well then, watch me get my teammates involved, handle/take care of the ball, and still get 26 on improved shot selection. Young is probably very deserving of top 3 overall consideration at this point.

I hear a lot of people say Doncic is the best overall player in this draft. I need to watch more tape on him. I think a kid his age doing what he's doing in the 2nd best league in the world & I'm pretty much sold that he's a top 3 pick. Honestly I think he's the guy I'm rooting for the Mavs to land the most, outside of Ayton.

Also heard very good things about Mikal Bridges (again), Jaren Jackson Jr, and even some guys down the pecking order. Some people still really seem to like Colin Sexton (looking forward to seeing him & Trae Young go at it on Saturday). A lot of people are still very high on Miles Bridges, even the A&M product Robert Williams gets talked about in that top 10-12 range. A lot of folks are high on Wendall Carter Jr & Kevin Knox too. Hear some talk about Bruce Brown & Troy Brown in that top 10-13 area too. I see this 2nd tier expanding.

I agree. I can definitely see this being a 8 or 9 deep player draft come June.

[Bryan_Wilson]

I've said it before but every time I read about or watch Doncic, I seriously think he would fit this team and RC like a glove and the fact he is without a doubt one of the top 5 players in this draft just really makes him perfect to me. I'm rooting for him being the guy, I'd obviously take any of them but I don't think any of the top 5 guys would fit and have the impact on this team like Doncic. If we somehow won the 1st pick we prolly won't take him over one of the bigs and I'll be happy with any of them like I said but man crush levels is reaching ridiculous proportions with Doncic and the idea that we could have a young do it all guy that could fit with any lineup we throw out there without sacrificing anything like we currently do.

There I go getting my hopes up again... damn you people.

[saclare]

I have Bamba over Bridges in both talent and need for the Mavs. The ceiling is the roof with the kid. No telling what kind of offensive game he could develop, and his defense is already elite.

[saclare]

Can't find where I mentioned Trae Young usage rate, but ESPN tweeted this graphic:

[saclare]

Double post aka tried to make the pic smaller and failed -_-

[EricaLubarsky]

Whats the difference between Trae Young and Lonzo Ball?

Seems like a good setup for 100+ jokes

[saclare]

Jaren Jackson Jr. with a 21 pt, 11 reb, 6 blk game hitting 11/12 FTs and 5/6 from the floor. No threes attempted but he's shooting 44.6% on them for the season (56 attempts).

Edit: Miles Bridges also went for 31 pts, 8 rebs, and 2 blks

[saclare]

Mikal Bridges still shooting the ball tremendously well. How does his defense grade out? He would be a great fit next to DSJ if he's a plus defender.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by saclare

Mikal Bridges still shooting the ball tremendously well. How does his defense grade out? He would be a great fit next to DSJ if he's a plus defender.

He was a co-winner of Big East Defensive Player of the Year last season.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Underdog

He was a co-winner of Big East Defensive Player of the Year last season.

Yep. Didn't think I'd have time to do my own research at the time of the post, but multiple reports showing a 3 and D type who has blossomed this year. Definitely should be on the Mavs draft board.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by saclare

Yep. Didn't think I'd have time to do my own research at the time of the post, but multiple reports showing a 3 and D type who has blossomed this year. Definitely should be on the Mavs draft board.

Yeah, he was a 3&D player coming into the season -- it's starting to look like he's evolving past that... Not that he's there yet (and not that he'll ever get there), but there's been some hope that he could develop into another Kawhi Leonard.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Not sure where else to put this. Maybe I should start a Tank Watch thread lol.

Orlando saddled the Sad Sac Kings with a W tonight!! Love it when two teams ahead of us in the race for the worst record this year play each other & somebody has to take the W. LOL

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Not sure where else to put this. Maybe I should start a Tank Watch thread lol.

Orlando saddled the Sad Sac Kings with a W tonight!! Love it when two teams ahead of us in the race for the worst record this year play each other & somebody has to take the W. LOL

This is a good thread to put it in -- we're pretty much position-watching and player-assessing here.

Today could be a big day for the standings... Obviously the Mavs play against Houston, but Atlanta, Phoenix, Memphis, and Chicago are also playing.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Underdog

This is a good thread to put it in -- we're pretty much position-watching and player-assessing here.

Today could be a big day for the standings... Obviously the Mavs play against Houston, but Atlanta, Phoenix, Memphis, and Chicago are also playing.

I looked at the rest of the Mavs schedule this year, and I projected a best case scenario of 28 total team wins. Best case meaning the most wins they could realistically accumulate. For me the best case is they don't win another game this year & finish with 16 wins.

I was looking at last year's standings, and Philadelphia had 28 wins, which gave them the 4th worst record in the league. I do worry that more teams will be in that low to mid 20s win total this year, but it made me feel a bit better about the Mavs slipping out of the top 5. They could easily not see 25 wins this year, and I don't see any way they win 30 games.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

I looked at the rest of the Mavs schedule this year, and I projected a best case scenario of 28 total team wins. Best case meaning the most wins they could realistically accumulate. For me the best case is they don't win another game this year & finish with 16 wins.

I was looking at last year's standings, and Philadelphia had 28 wins, which gave them the 4th worst record in the league. I do worry that more teams will be in that low to mid 20s win total this year, but it made me feel a bit better about the Mavs slipping out of the top 5. They could easily not see 25 wins this year, and I don't see any way they win 30 games.

I don't see anyway for them to finish top-3. I think we're looking at most likely 4-8. Probably 6 or 7

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I don't see anyway for them to finish top-3. I think we're looking at most likely 4-8. Probably 6 or 7

Yeah this is a big enigma really. Like, I just heard on the radio that last time the Mavs played the Rockets there was no CP3. So when you look at the upcoming schedule & see a team like HOU you put it down as a loss, but if say both CP3 & Harden are out, then what.

I got to my 28 by basically saying the Mavs lose the next 3, and then gave them wins every time they faced a team like SAC, ORL, PHX & gave them a 2 or 3 surprise wins vs teams like IND or LAC. I never had them beating a top team, which likely they'll pull off 1 or 2 wins like that too, but also they'll likely give up more than a few games to teams like SAC & PHX; at least let's hope so.

SAC seems like they're clearly in tank mode. ORL might actually improve once they get Vucevic back & a guy like Payton is playing for his NBA future, so I have hopes they can post a better record than the Mavs. ATL is a real threat to finish worse than the Mavs; they just don't have the talent to put up very many wins. A team like Charlotte could be trouble if they deal Walker and/or more pieces.

On the brightside, LAL & BKN have no reason to try & tank, so the Mavs should be able to finish with a worse record than those two.

PHX & CHI are concerns, but I would have to say they're both more talented than the Mavs are and the Mavs currently have a 1.5 and 2.5 game lead on them both for worst record. Memphis is a concern too, but they'll get Conley Jr back at some point, probably post ASG, and they've had a tough schedule so far, so more winnable games are coming for them.

Honestly, outside of SAC and ATL, there's no team that I think the Mavs don't have at least as good a chance of finishing with a worst record than. Maybe ORL is in that mix too.

We've also said this draft looks to be 8 players deep. Just can't see the Mavs finishing with a record good enough to put them out of that top 8 category. They're just not very good. I really think they're in line for a top 3 pick, if they're smart & start tanking some of these games when they play a SAC or PHX etc. The good news is those times when SAC & PHX play each other, somebody has to take the W. Even better news would be like if Harrison Barnes pulls a hamstring or Wes Matthews is traded etc. Would love to see something like that happen. Because this draft might be 8 players deep, but we really want that top 3 pick.

[Underdog]

Been thinking lately about how confident I am in certain players -- in their actual abilities vs. the hype, in how well those abilities can translate to the NBA, and if they'll fit in Carlisle's system with Dennis running point... Also, in Porter's case, overall health.

Here's my top rankings if I let my gut outweigh my mind:

DeAndre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Mohamed Bamba
Mikal Bridges
Luka Doncic
Trae Young
Michael Porter
Jaren Jackson
Miles Bridges
Wendell Carter

[mac222b]

I like Doncic but the issue, aside from perimeter defense, is his inability to get around people with the ball in his hands (except in the pick and roll where he seems amazing). He has a great handle and relies a lot on that to get open looks either mid-range or behind the 3-point line. Passing wise he reminds me of Manu but he hasn't been the crafty finisher Manu is. He isn't as explosive going to the rim. He could learn to be better at selling his ball and head fakes as Manu does before dribbling. More economical in his motion. Bird was also a master of this. Leveraging balance. To make up for a less than stellar first step.

All that being said, he's 18 or 19 and is reputedly a gym rat. He's already strong with a solid frame for a kid his age. Good instinctive rebounder. He's a guy that should add to his game every offseason. Would be really fun to watch him here.

[saclare]

I didn't want to start tiers until further into conference play, but to me, it's becoming more obvious what the top is shaping out to be. To note, I've been high on Bamba and low on Doncic. Trae Young has earned the right to be in the top tier. I was high on Miles Bridges and low on Mikal Bridges, basically flip flopping them from the start of the season. Jaren Jackson Jr. continues to make his case, love his game. Also, Wendell Carter is coming into form and really settling in for Duke. He has a chance to rise up.

Tier One
DeAndre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Trae Young
Mohamed Bamba

Tier Two
Luka Doncic
Mikal Bridges
Michael Porter

Tier Three
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Miles Bridges
Wendell Carter Jr.
Kevin Knox

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by saclare

I didn't want to start tiers until further into conference play, but to me, it's becoming more obvious what the top is shaping out to be. To note, I've been high on Bamba and low on Doncic. Trae Young has earned the right to be in the top tier. I was high on Miles Bridges and low on Mikal Bridges, basically flip flopping them from the start of the season. Jaren Jackson Jr. continues to make his case, love his game. Also, Wendell Carter is coming into form and really settling in for Duke. He has a chance to rise up.

Tier One
DeAndre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Trae Young
Mohamed Bamba

Tier Two
Luka Doncic
Mikal Bridges
Michael Porter

Tier Three
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Miles Bridges
Wendell Carter Jr.
Kevin Knox

Great stuff! Like your tiering a lot. Pretty close to mine I'd say. Might put Jaren Jackson in his own mini-tier above the other 3

[saclare]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Great stuff! Like your tiering a lot. Pretty close to mine I'd say. Might put Jaren Jackson in his own mini-tier above the other 3

I almost put him in tier two altogether, and would have added Collin Sexton to the 3rd tier to make it an even 4/tier and 12 total top prospects.