Im sorry guys, I dont see Kidd leading this team anywhere - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sefant77 · 12-26-2009, 11:49 PM

I still wonder why Damp couldnt catch them the last 1,5 years with Kidd...

Kidd need to shoot the three like he does since he is in Dallas. Clutch and in good 40% range and we are fine. Teams cant double team or they get punished.

Okay, he could make his layups...

nikeball · 12-27-2009, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

All that matters is points, points, points!!!!! Yeah, not so much.

Yeah! If you have more points than the other team you win!

Dirkadirkastan · 12-27-2009, 01:32 AM

Is "you" a team or a player?

EricaLubarsky · 12-27-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Is "you" a team or a player?

Its the PG that matters. Duh!

Whoever has the higher scoring point wins the game!

LonghornDub · 12-27-2009, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Yes. Points are most important. At the end of the day your job is to score more points than your opponent.
I could honestly care less that he gets a bunch of rebounds if he cant keep the defense honest with his scoring ability.

I propose a football team comprised of a quarterback and ten running backs, as they are the most suited to score points. Because, at the end of the day, isn't that what your job is really all about?

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 12-27-2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I dont know what is worse: this whiny thread or the Rockets troll that keeps claiming he's a Mavs fan trying to turn this into a discussion of the Rockets and how good they will be if they ever, ever get healthy.

"u r dumb"
you "have no guts"
you make "dumb statements"

and now:

you are a "troll pretending to be a Mavericks fan"

This is a waste of time and its getting old for me. Please let me know when you are interested in having an intellectual discussion...

*officially ignoring EricaLubarsky now*

particleman · 12-27-2009, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

I was under the impression that we brought Kidd in here to be a championship calibur team and not a 6th and 7 seeded team.

There is so much about what you say that upsets me. And just so you know I'm not just a "Jason Kidd homer," I'd like to point out that I remain firmly in the anti-Devin-Harris-trade camp (since that's essentially what you're talking about here). But for some reason your absolute obstinacy to properly spelling "caliber" is what upsets me most. C'mon man, two people have already pointed this out in this very same thread,

Maybe because this whole thread is so dumb that I don't even know where to start rebutting it... So I just come back to the spelling.

I don't know.. I'm drunk. But I will tell you this with absolute certainty: I wish that people, like you, who have nothing better to do than rip our team just for the hell of it, would be banned from this forum. You don't like Jason Kidd.. fine. You'd rather have someone who shoots the same percentage from the field and far worse on 3 pointers, but takes twice as many shots.. You don't deserve Jason Kidd. You want Baron Davis.. go root for the f***ing Clippers and get the heck out of our forum.

Murphy3 · 12-27-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Dirk is a scorer
Terry is a scorer
Howard is a scorer
Dampier has become a scorer
Thomas is a scorer
Gooden is a scorer

The idea that scoring more points is the key is oversimplified and adding another scorer doesnt add that point total to our season average. There are only a finite number of posessions and honestly having a smart PG that doesnt turn it over, and gets steals and rebounds gets us more posessions for the rest of the team to use. In fact the very idea that you would bring scoring into it is silly. There are legitimate criticisms of Kidd (that he cant penetrate anymore, etc) but scoring is one of the silliest.

Now the whole point is ridiculous anyway because you are listing players we can't in a million years acquire even if we had amazing trade pieces. You might as well complain we dont have Phil Jackson, Josh Smith, CP3, and Ray Allen on the team too. Its about as likely.

An equally stupid post proposal: we cant get anywhere with Terry at the 2. Elite teams have guys like Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant. We could get one of those guys or Damien Wilkins. Blah blah blah. Whine whine whine. etc etc

Take your stupidity elsewhere

My biggest complaint with Kidd is that the team can get in situations to where it needs another guy that can drive to the bucket and score. Kidd can drive to the bucket, but he rarely scores. Often, defenses won't even bring additional defenders his way when he drives because they know he's not looking to put the ball in the bucket himself.

tcat075 · 12-27-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikeball

Yeah! If you have more points than the other team you win!

Which is why some people think that points is all that matters. However, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, and all the other stats, they help your team score more points and help the other team score less. A player who only gets points is valuable, no doubt, but if you don't have any players who can get rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and the like, then your team won't be productive. And yeah, I know you were being kinda sarcastic, but I just wanted to make sure this point was clear.

DirktyBlue · 12-27-2009, 11:11 AM

Kidd makes Dirk happy. When Dirk is happy, good things happen! End of Story!

Bathouse Bear · 12-27-2009, 01:04 PM

I didnt realize criticizing Jason Kidd would get so many of your panties in a wad. Jesus, you guys are a bunch of pansies.

The fact that so many of you think this guy is an effective player that will help us win in the playoffs is truly mind boggling.

I cant understand how you extreme homers cant see the fact that Kidds lack of perimeter defense and inability to score is a major issue in the playoffs.

Here are Jason Kidds Stats for every playoff game he has played since the Devin Harris trade and the opposing point guards stats. The opposing point guard has outplayed him IN EVERY SINGLE GAME except for game 1 in the Denver series...which we lost.

I dont understand how people can look at these results and think that we dont need Kidd to score because we have enough scorers.

On the positive result, Jason Kidd did out rebound the opposing teams point guard. That sure helped us a lot.

2008 New Orleans Hornets

Game 1: Kidd 11 points 9 ast, 9 rebounds (Loss)
Paul- 35 points 10 ast 3 rebounds

Game 2: Kidd 7 points 8 ast 4 rebounds (Loss)
Paul- 32 points 17 ast 5 rebounds

Game 3: Kidd 8 points 5 ast 11 rebounds (win)
Paul 16 points 10 ast 2 rebounds

Game 4: Kidd 3 points 3 ast 3 rebounds (loss)
Paul 16 points 8 ast 7 rebounds

Game 5: Kidd 14 points 9 asts 4 rebounds (loss)
Paul 24 points 15 ast 11 rebounds

Conclusion: It aint fair to compare Kidd to the best point guard in the game, but he got his ass handed to him on a regular basis. Kidd didnt do much of anything

2009 San Antonio Spurs
Game 1: Kidd 4 points 5 ast 8 rebounds (win)
Parker 24 points 8 ast 4 rebounds

Game 2: Kidd 14 points 5 ast 4 rebounds (loss)
Parker 38 points 8 ast 4 rebounds

Game 3: Kidd 3 points 6 ast 8 rebounds (win)
Parker 12 points 3 ast 4 rebounds

Game 4: Kidd 17 points 7 ast 7 rebounds (win)
Parker 43 points 3 ast 5 rebounds

Game 5: Kidd 12 points 5 ast 3 rebounds (win)
Parker 26 points 12 ast 4 rebounds

Conclusion: Lucky for the good guys that Manu Ginobli was injured and did not play. Props to Jet and Josh Howard for stepping up in this series.

2009 Denver Nuggets
Game 1: Kidd 15 points 4 ast 4 rebounds (loss)
Billups 6 points 6 ast 3 rebounds

Game 2: Kidd 4 points 7 asts 6 rebounds (loss)
Billups 18 points 8 ast 3 rebounds

Game 3: Kidd 13 points 5 ast 5 rebounds (loss)
Billups 32 points 3 ast 3 rebounds

Game 4: Kidd 13 points 10 ast 10 rebounds (win)
Billups 24 points 7 ast 2 reounds

Game 5: Kidd 19 points 9 asts 3 rebounds (loss)
Billups 28 points 12 asts 7 rebounds

Conclusion: Again Jason Kidd gets his ass handed to him by a better point guard. We switch point guards with Denver and we probably beat them.

EricaLubarsky · 12-27-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

We switch point guards with Denver and we probably beat them.

When you talk Denver into Kidd for Billups let us know. Until then go away.

Lor20 · 12-27-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

I didnt realize criticizing Jason Kidd would get so many of your panties in a wad. Jesus, you guys are a bunch of pansies.

The fact that so many of you think this guy is an effective player that will help us win in the playoffs is truly mind boggling.

I cant understand how you extreme homers cant see the fact that Kidds lack of perimeter defense and inability to score is a major issue in the playoffs.

Here are Jason Kidds Stats for every playoff game he has played since the Devin Harris trade and the opposing point guards stats. The opposing point guard has outplayed him IN EVERY SINGLE GAME except for game 1 in the Denver series...which we lost.

I dont understand how people can look at these results and think that we dont need Kidd to score because we have enough scorers.

On the positive result, Jason Kidd did out rebound the opposing teams point guard. That sure helped us a lot.

2008 New Orleans Hornets

Game 1: Kidd 11 points 9 ast, 9 rebounds (Loss)
Paul- 35 points 10 ast 3 rebounds

Game 2: Kidd 7 points 8 ast 4 rebounds (Loss)
Paul- 32 points 17 ast 5 rebounds

Game 3: Kidd 8 points 5 ast 11 rebounds (win)
Paul 16 points 10 ast 2 rebounds

Game 4: Kidd 3 points 3 ast 3 rebounds (loss)
Paul 16 points 8 ast 7 rebounds

Game 5: Kidd 14 points 9 asts 4 rebounds (loss)
Paul 24 points 15 ast 11 rebounds

Conclusion: It aint fair to compare Kidd to the best point guard in the game, but he got his ass handed to him on a regular basis. Kidd didnt do much of anything

2009 San Antonio Spurs
Game 1: Kidd 4 points 5 ast 8 rebounds (win)
Parker 24 points 8 ast 4 rebounds

Game 2: Kidd 14 points 5 ast 4 rebounds (loss)
Parker 38 points 8 ast 4 rebounds

Game 3: Kidd 3 points 6 ast 8 rebounds (win)
Parker 12 points 3 ast 4 rebounds

Game 4: Kidd 17 points 7 ast 7 rebounds (win)
Parker 43 points 3 ast 5 rebounds

Game 5: Kidd 12 points 5 ast 3 rebounds (win)
Parker 26 points 12 ast 4 rebounds

Conclusion: Lucky for the good guys that Manu Ginobli was injured and did not play. Props to Jet and Josh Howard for stepping up in this series.

2009 Denver Nuggets
Game 1: Kidd 15 points 4 ast 4 rebounds (loss)
Billups 6 points 6 ast 3 rebounds

Game 2: Kidd 4 points 7 asts 6 rebounds (loss)
Billups 18 points 8 ast 3 rebounds

Game 3: Kidd 13 points 5 ast 5 rebounds (loss)
Billups 32 points 3 ast 3 rebounds

Game 4: Kidd 13 points 10 ast 10 rebounds (win)
Billups 24 points 7 ast 2 reounds

Game 5: Kidd 19 points 9 asts 3 rebounds (loss)
Billups 28 points 12 asts 7 rebounds

Conclusion: Again Jason Kidd gets his ass handed to him by a better point guard. We switch point guards with Denver and we probably beat them.

paul is obviously a better PG than kidd.. no surprise in that one.
Parker was the spurs #1 offensive option, for large parts of the games the only option. obviously he was going to score a lot.
Billups... I was actually hoping for a billups trade just before we traded harris for kidd instead.
So Kidd is not one of the top 4 point guards in the West.... I'd say he is maybe #6 or 7 in the west this year. This is completely in line with his salary so really you can't complain much. he is very durable and does perform as expected and pretty consistently so.
No team has a top 5 guy on each position (which is the whole point of the salary cap).
I'd say we are roughly:

PG - Kidd - #12 overall
SG - Terry - #15 overall
SG/SF Howard #8-10 overall
SF - Marion - #15 overall
PF - Dirk #1
C - Damp - #15 overall

I would still assess SG and C to be our biggest weaknesses and not PG.

particleman · 12-27-2009, 02:55 PM

It isn't even that we necessarily disagree with your argument that upsets us, jackass. It's that you're bitching for bitching's sake.

I think that if we had Dwight Howard at center instead of Erick Dampier we would be the best team in the NBA. But I'm not starting threads in the general Dallas Mavericks discussion area bitching about how I don't think Erick Dampier is going to get us past the early rounds of the playoffs.

Now if you seriously think we should be trying to trade Jason Kidd for Baron Davis or Aaron Brooks or whoever then go to the ESPN trade machine, play around for a while, find a deal you like and then come back to the Trade and Draft Board and start a thread there posting your ideas.

What you're doing in here is nothing more than a flame.

jthig32 · 12-27-2009, 03:35 PM

Anyone who thinks Kidd's defense is poor is simply incapable of having a legitimate basketball debate. You might as well just ignore him.

Anyone who would simply compare the points, rebounds and assists numbers in a series of games in order to determine who was the most effective player is also incapable of a serious basketball debate.

Also, anyone who thinks the Mavs can't win without the best PG in the NBA is an idiot.

Add it all up and this is a stupid thread.

Nowitzki4President · 12-27-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lor20

I would still assess SG and C to be our biggest weaknesses and not PG.

I disagree with this, to a degree. The 5 position isn't as dire as people are making it out to be, Damp's doing great. Back up C is really were were hurting when it comes to big men since Gooden is so damned inconsistent. But as we aren't, we aren't really in a bad spot at all.

sefant77 · 12-27-2009, 06:26 PM

Kidds job isnt to outscore or outplay the other pg, his job is to make sure the other 4 mavs are able to outplay the opponent. If you didnt realize that...

And he is pretty good in it.

Bathouse Bear · 12-27-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Anyone who thinks Kidd's defense is poor is simply incapable of having a legitimate basketball debate. You might as well just ignore him.

Anybody that thinks Jason Kidd is a halfway decent perimeter defender is an absolute moron.

Do you even watch Mavericks games?

Quote:

Kidds job isnt to outscore or outplay the other pg, his job is to make sure the other 4 mavs are able to outplay the opponent. If you didnt realize that...

And he is pretty good in it.

Looking at the Mavs playoff results I would beg to differ

EricaLubarsky · 12-27-2009, 09:16 PM

Bathouse-- a legendary poster that can go from 5 green squares to 1 in a single thread

DirktyBlue · 12-27-2009, 09:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3_w0taTPYg

iella · 12-27-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirktyBlue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3_w0taTPYg

Apparently I have to spread some rep, but the beginning of that video is literally laugh-out-loud funny.

jthig32 · 12-28-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Anybody that thinks Jason Kidd is a halfway decent perimeter defender is an absolute moron.

Do you even watch Mavericks games?

The difference between Marion's on court defensive numbers and Kidd's on court defensive numbers is very, very small.

Kidd's contributions are less obvious, in a sense, but he's a very, very valuable defensive player on this team. His versatility and ability to guard bigger players allows Jason Terry to play the off guard position exclusively, it allows JJB to play the off guard position for portions of every game, and it allowed the Mavs to survive without Josh Howard in better shape than they would have been otherwise.

The fact that he has trouble guarding water bug point guards puts him in the company of just about every other point guard in the NBA, including most of the water bug point guards themselves.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-28-2009, 09:07 AM

I kinda view Kidd and Marion as the glue guys of the team. They never have great stats in one area, but they usually seem to contribute solid stats across the board.

tcat075 · 12-28-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Anybody that thinks Jason Kidd is a halfway decent perimeter defender is an absolute moron.

Do you even watch Mavericks games?

Shooting guard JJ Barea would beg to differ.

muzak · 12-28-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

water bug point guards

Did you just make that up?

AO41 · 12-28-2009, 10:25 AM

Kidds presence out there is better than half the point guards ....Kidd still intimidates players and players respect him.

Kidd plays smart ...he thinks...he uses his head all the time and he is the best at that.

Any given game he is flirting with a triple double...you can say tat about maybe 3 other players....and none of them are over 30.

the assists, steals, and rebounds help out greatly.....the pints are always a bonus..and Kidd can still score. WE have seen it in a few games, but if others are hott, he does all the other little things.

His game mite have changed a little and he mite have slowed down...but he still plays great D and and his one of the best basketball minds in the whole NBA

dude1394 · 12-28-2009, 10:58 AM

Is this thread still alive. sheesh...just watch the team, if he's not going to get it done then it isn't going to get done. When he comes in the game settles down and the mavs get serious and do what they are supposed to do.

Murph's comment about needing someone to break down the defense and be a threat to score some is valid, I would really like to see jkiddo actually work harder to make some shots in the paint, even if he misses them. I've been interested to watch him shot a bank shot lately, he seems to be a lot better angles guy than a straight on guy. Maybe his eyes are too wide on his head, so he has great peripheral vision but bad straight ahead vision?? I don't know but his bank shots look a lot better than his layups and "finesse" shots.

Also he's 21st in the league in 3pt shooting, which is EXACTLY what we want out there out of him. If he can continue to be a threat out there we will be fine offensively.

Jet/Josh need to continue to get into the paint to mix it up some.

And OH that Maverick Defense is starting to look really, really solid. Again Jkiddos imprint is huge here imo.

spreedom · 12-28-2009, 11:00 AM

Hopefully we can sign 1971 Walt Frazier to help defend every single type of perimeter player in the NBA... then we should be in good shape.

Underdog · 12-28-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Anybody that thinks Jason Kidd is a halfway decent perimeter defender is an absolute moron.

Shouldn't you be getting plowed by a top in a steamy shower room somewhere?

Stick with what you know...

rmacomic · 12-28-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Shouldn't you be getting plowed by a top in a steamy shower room somewhere?

Stick with what you know...

n/m

LonghornDub · 12-28-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Shouldn't you be getting plowed by a top in a steamy shower room somewhere?

Stick with what you know...

*Slow clap*.

DirktyBlue · 12-28-2009, 12:36 PM

i have noticed in the past several games - when the other team cuts loose and goes on a run, Carlisle quickly calls a timeout, Kidd gets back in and either makes a big defensive play or starts harassing his man on defense and then the entire team gets energized and they play shutdown defense for at least a quarter. When the game is on the line, Kidd can provide that crucial steal or 3 ball to seal the game (there is a reason why we win most of our close games - Dirk/Kidd/Carlisle). He is still strong as hell for his age and can guard guys way bigger than him. Kidd gets a lot of praise for his play-calling ability and sweet assists, but to me his real value comes on the defensive end of the floor and that just cannot be quantified.

Kidd Karma · 12-28-2009, 01:17 PM

Kidd's worth goes beyond the stat sheet, he's an extension of the coach. He's the quiet leader, though I wish he would be a little more verbal in demanding teammates' best, ala KG, Lebron. The thing about Kidd I wish he would do more of is shooting when open without hesitation, this will balance the floor and force his defender to stay within arms length, instead of playing free safety hedging on Dirk. I agree, Chauncey, Deron, CP3, would mean championship for Big D, but Cuban signed him up and well we'll keep going to the well with JKidd. Who knows with PG's entering the league at a high rate, Cuban might be able to get a young one cheap.

Kidd Karma · 12-28-2009, 01:17 PM

Yea, bad, forgot about Boobs.

EricaLubarsky · 12-28-2009, 01:55 PM

No one can defend perimeter guards. Once there is movement refs now have the permission to call any contact at all, but Kidd does as well as almost anyone at trying.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-28-2009, 01:55 PM

So Parker outplayed Kidd in Game 3? Now that's a good one.

ribosoma · 12-30-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

This Mavs team will never be a championship calibur team with Jason Kidd running the show.

I know the homers on this site are gonna castrate me because Kidd is the real life emperor with no clothes.

Kidds lack of scoring ability and his pathetic perimeter defense are major obstacles to the Mavs getting to the same level as the Lakers or celtics.

Kidd cannot guard the quick point guards and when we have to put Barea or Terry on them...it only weakens their offensive game because they are having to extend so much energy.

Right now I would rank all these Western Conference point guards ahead of Kidd

Steve Nash
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Chris Paul
Aaron Brooks
Baron Davis
Deron Williams

What kills me is that if we had any of those players I think this Mavs team would be a legit contender for the NBA title.

Expend.

These guys are all bad defenders. Nash is the worst I have ever seen.

When you begin a thread by preemptively insulting anyone who questions your logic, you tend to get the conflict you were supposedly afraid of.

The Mavericks playoff failures in recent years have a great deal more to do with depth than they do with any one player, especially one regarded as being one of the best pure PGs in the league by players, coaches, and GMs throughout. Your argument can't really be thoroughly vetted because it is based upon a hypothetical. I can counter your hypothetical with the reality that the Mavericks are creeping up on the Lakers towards the number 1 spot in the West, they have won 8 of their last 10 (second only to the Cavs who have won 9), they have overcome key injuries throughout the season, and they have the second-best road record in the league (behind the Celtics).

Just a few observations on your list:

Kidd's ability to push the ball in transition leads to easy baskets and opportunities to exploit a defense that has yet to get set. He knows where everyone is, finds a weakness, and exploits it. His 3-point shooting is huge and he has hit several game-clinching three this year. When he doubles-down on a bigger player, he has an uncanny knack for stripping the ball away and creating a transition opportunity. Nash has the same ability on offense as a pace-setter and distributor, is a much better scorer, but plays zero defense. Billups has better lateral movement defensively, but struggles defensively against bigger players on switches and is nowhere near the creator Kidd is in transition. He is a great half-court PG. Parker is a great scorer, poor facilitator, is as fast as a junebug, and absolutely sucks as a defender. He can make other PGs work defensively due to his quickness and ability to work well without the ball through screens, but gets backed-down by bigger PGs and has poor footwork. Barea gets wherever he wants, whenever he wants against Parker and the Spurs can't do anything about it. CP3 is a badass. I hate him and I would love to see him in a Mavs uniform. He plays mean and he frustrates the hell out of anyone who plays him. I'm not sure whether he is a better transition facilitator than Kidd because he is the Hornet's best scoring option and he is usually looking to finish on the break. Aaron Brooks can score. That's about it. He has a low basketball IQ, takes horrible shots, and seems to love dribbling ten seconds off of the shot clock every possession. Baron Davis has always had tons of ability he will occasionally tease you with. He is a lazy defender. He is selfish. He takes bad shots. When it comes to vision and IQ, Kidd blows him out of the water. Deron Williams is awesome. There are very few holes in his game. But, like CP3, there was no chance of him coming here, so it doesn't make much sense to be upset about him not being a Mav.

And I'm pretty sure the Mavs were never in the Billups race in the first place.

ribosoma · 12-30-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Shouldn't you be getting plowed by a top in a steamy shower room somewhere?

Stick with what you know...

SMC0007 · 12-30-2009, 03:08 PM

Kidd Karma · 12-30-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribosoma

Expend.

These guys are all bad defenders. Nash is the worst I have ever seen.

When you begin a thread by preemptively insulting anyone who questions your logic, you tend to get the conflict you were supposedly afraid of.

The Mavericks playoff failures in recent years have a great deal more to do with depth than they do with any one player, especially one regarded as being one of the best pure PGs in the league by players, coaches, and GMs throughout. Your argument can't really be thoroughly vetted because it is based upon a hypothetical. I can counter your hypothetical with the reality that the Mavericks are creeping up on the Lakers towards the number 1 spot in the West, they have won 8 of their last 10 (second only to the Cavs who have won 9), they have overcome key injuries throughout the season, and they have the second-best road record in the league (behind the Celtics).

Just a few observations on your list:

Kidd's ability to push the ball in transition leads to easy baskets and opportunities to exploit a defense that has yet to get set. He knows where everyone is, finds a weakness, and exploits it. His 3-point shooting is huge and he has hit several game-clinching three this year. When he doubles-down on a bigger player, he has an uncanny knack for stripping the ball away and creating a transition opportunity. Nash has the same ability on offense as a pace-setter and distributor, is a much better scorer, but plays zero defense. Billups has better lateral movement defensively, but struggles defensively against bigger players on switches and is nowhere near the creator Kidd is in transition. He is a great half-court PG. Parker is a great scorer, poor facilitator, is as fast as a junebug, and absolutely sucks as a defender. He can make other PGs work defensively due to his quickness and ability to work well without the ball through screens, but gets backed-down by bigger PGs and has poor footwork. Barea gets wherever he wants, whenever he wants against Parker and the Spurs can't do anything about it. CP3 is a badass. I hate him and I would love to see him in a Mavs uniform. He plays mean and he frustrates the hell out of anyone who plays him. I'm not sure whether he is a better transition facilitator than Kidd because he is the Hornet's best scoring option and he is usually looking to finish on the break. Aaron Brooks can score. That's about it. He has a low basketball IQ, takes horrible shots, and seems to love dribbling ten seconds off of the shot clock every possession. Baron Davis has always had tons of ability he will occasionally tease you with. He is a lazy defender. He is selfish. He takes bad shots. When it comes to vision and IQ, Kidd blows him out of the water. Deron Williams is awesome. There are very few holes in his game. But, like CP3, there was no chance of him coming here, so it doesn't make much sense to be upset about him not being a Mav.

And I'm pretty sure the Mavs were never in the Billups race in the first place.

I concur with the depth issue. Especially the first Kidd run against NO. I thought we were a bit better against Denver, the problem there was big man athleticism, we just could not stop Nene, and Bird man, hopefully with added focus, ala Gooden on Bird Man, we should be able to neutralize that if we get another shot at them. To be honest the way things are rolling, can't see anything but us and the Lakers in the West Finals. This is when Kidd, a mix of JHo, Ross and Marion can have an effect on Kobe.

I think Kidd's lack of defensive ability is his lateral quickness against the quicker guys out there. He is probalby the best off the ball defender in the league, using his IQ to jump passing lanes, or preventing players from getting off a clean look or blowing up plays before they happen.

Looking at what Denver gave up for Billups, if they were only in it for the expiring, Kidd had a nice fat expiring last year.....but would cuban have done that, if offered?