Butler/Haywood/Stevenson to the Mavs!! - Page 13 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kg_veteran · 02-15-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'll give him 24 minutes a game. Any more than that, and it means that the guys above him in the rotation aren't that good.

I'm a big fan of reducing Terry's role, so let me see if I can make the minutes work:

Dampier/Haywood 48
Nowitzki 38
Marion 36
Butler 38
Kidd 34
TOTAL: 194

That leaves 46 minutes, and Terry is the best player left on the roster. If you give Beaubois all of the backup PG minutes (14), there are still 32 minutes left. If you want to give Beaubois 22 minutes (8 at SG), that would work, but do you really see the young guy getting 22 mpg at playoff time?

jthig32 · 02-15-2010, 10:36 AM

Honestly, you can do much, much worse than Jason Terry as your third scorer. He would deserve around 30 minutes a game on just about any team in the league.

I think some of our frustration with Jet this season can be attributed to Josh sucking, thus putting more pressure on Jet (and Dirk).

I'm fine with 30 minutes a night. Just don't automatically put him out there to close games, and I'm happy.

Underdog · 02-15-2010, 10:42 AM

Nice avatar, kg_veteran - I'm really, really glad you lost that bet!

jthig32 · 02-15-2010, 10:47 AM

It's supposed to be animated and flip between "Jthig Rules" and "KG Drools". Oh well.

I'm happy.

dude1394 · 02-15-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Howard actually has that month over Caron, if I'm not mistaken.
If you're going to complain over this fleecing thats causing panic and many curses over on Spur and Nugget boards, than I have no idea what to tell you. I guess you are not able to be satisfied at this point.

I would like to see some links to the panic causing threads you are referring to? I really like to see what the other side is gnashing about.

sike · 02-15-2010, 11:15 AM

probably doesn't need to be said, but please post links to any vid interviews or radio interviews you come across involving the people in this trade.

Usually Lurkin · 02-15-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Wait... What happened? We acquired another 30 year old?

Wooo

we need players in their prime.

alexamenos · 02-15-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

probably doesn't need to be said, but please post links to any vid interviews or radio interviews you come across involving the people in this trade.

here's a good'un....link.

sike · 02-15-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

here's a good'un....link.

thats an amazing pass at 2:12

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-15-2010, 11:30 AM

Skip and the other analyst were going ga ga over this trade on ESPN First Take. (of course how can you not?) They both think Butler is very underrated. They think that other teams need to make trades now to compete with us, like a SA.

bobatundi · 02-15-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'm a big fan of reducing Terry's role, so let me see if I can make the minutes work:

Dampier/Haywood 48
Nowitzki 38
Marion 36
Butler 38
Kidd 34
TOTAL: 194

That leaves 46 minutes, and Terry is the best player left on the roster. If you give Beaubois all of the backup PG minutes (14), there are still 32 minutes left. If you want to give Beaubois 22 minutes (8 at SG), that would work, but do you really see the young guy getting 22 mpg at playoff time?

Come playoff time, I think you'll see 40+ out of Dirk & Kidd, which cuts into those 46 remaining minutes anyway. I suspect the playoff rotation will be our top 7 guys (Kidd, Butler, Marion, Dirk, Damp, Haywood, Terry), maybe 6-8 minutes for Roddy/Barea to give Kidd a breather, and the rest of the miinutes (if there are any left) will be matchup-based.

sike · 02-15-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Skip and the other analyst were going ga ga over this trade on ESPN First Take. (of course how can you not?) They both think Butler is very underrated. They think that other teams need to make trades now to compete with us, like a SA.

cool to know.

alexamenos · 02-15-2010, 11:38 AM

as for as the age thing, the mavs just need to get guys that can play at a high level as long as Dirk can play at a high level, after that its' back to the lottery regardless.

I haven't followed this closely...or maybe I should say not at all, but the thing that's bugging me is the Wiz are 17 - 33 with this roster:

Gilbert Arenas (32 games, it's not like he's been gone all season)
Antawn Jamison
Brandon Haywood
Caron Butler
Mike Miller
Randy Foye

That's pretty nice six deep and there's a few other guys who aren't useless. I realize they've had some injuries and shootings (who -hasn't?), but still...that looks better than a 17-33? Are they 17-33 because they're a bunch of soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads?

Did we send our soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads to Washington for their soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads?

DirkFTW · 02-15-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

thats an amazing pass at 2:12

gah!!!!!!!

sike · 02-15-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Did we send our soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads to Washington for their soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads?

what makes you say this? just their lousy record or other info?

alexamenos · 02-15-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

what makes you say this? just their lousy record or other info?

Just their record, nothing else....I've only seen the Wiz play once this year and they looked better than the Mavs. I'm wondering why they don't have a better record, and wondering whether they're not ditching Haywood and Butler because of locker room problems, for the same reasons we wanted to ditch j-smoke.

Are Wiz fans (if there are any) by any chance saying, 'so glad we got rid of those two, we fleeced the mavs in getting a guy who can score, rebound, play d, etc., etc...?

sike · 02-15-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Just their record, nothing else....I've only seen the Wiz play once this year and they looked better than the Mavs. I'm wondering why they don't have a better record, and wondering whether they're not ditching Haywood and Butler because of locker room problems, for the same reasons we wanted to ditch j-smoke.

Are Wiz fans (if there are any) by any chance saying, 'so glad we got rid of those two, we fleeced the mavs in getting a guy who can score, rebound, play d, etc., etc...?

nope...Wiz fans are miserable over this trade. Butler was much beloved.

sike · 02-15-2010, 11:52 AM

if anyone cares, Sefko is about to be on with Norm to go over this trade.

dude1394 · 02-15-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'm a big fan of reducing Terry's role, so let me see if I can make the minutes work:

Dampier/Haywood 48
Nowitzki 38
Marion 36
Butler 38
Kidd 34
TOTAL: 194

That leaves 46 minutes, and Terry is the best player left on the roster. If you give Beaubois all of the backup PG minutes (14), there are still 32 minutes left. If you want to give Beaubois 22 minutes (8 at SG), that would work, but do you really see the young guy getting 22 mpg at playoff time?

Dang KG, where'd you get that goofy avatar?

alexamenos · 02-15-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

nope...Wiz fans are miserable over this trade. Butler was much beloved.

cool

saclare · 02-15-2010, 11:59 AM

Great trade...in my honest opinion, I think the prize here is Haywood. If anyone has seen him play, he is far and away better than Dampier on the boards and defensively. Offensively, he is a little better, but gaining Butler with Haywood takes cares of any offensive questions.

I also think that a lot of people are over looking the cash considerations acquired and the fact that we kept the TE.

It would not surprise me to see another trade, however, I think the FO is done after this one.

Can't wait to see them play Saturday at the AAC!

sike · 02-15-2010, 12:02 PM

Sefko is almost worthless. How does this guy have a job in such a big market covering a sport he barely understands.

dude1394 · 02-15-2010, 12:15 PM

From a spurs board...

Quote:

ummm.
not only is this a great trade for the Mavs, they close the gap to the Lakers, it could also turn into a disaster trade for us, if we play the Mavs again in the PO.
you don't want to have Haywood cover Tim. (he will be a much tougher defender for Tim than Dampier). and even if Josh Howard always did a lot of damage to the Spurs, you also don't want to meet Caron Butler with Jefferson virtually the only option to guard him. Butler is a so much better passer and ball handler than JH, I'm really not looking forward to face all the plays the Mavs can run with him and Dirk, that JH couldn't.
Mavs have been a bad match up for us for years. with this trade the match ups turn even worse.

sike · 02-15-2010, 12:27 PM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dude1394 again.

mavsfan2323 · 02-15-2010, 12:31 PM

i really like jamison, but when he's your best player(he is/was their best player) you're not gonna win that many games. when he's a complimentary player that's when you'll see his teams win a lot of games. throw in that arenas was their pg and that pretty much sums up a 17-33 record.

alexamenos · 02-15-2010, 12:32 PM

in re whether Butler can attack the rim...

I like to look at FGA's / FTA -- guys that are really good at attacking the basket get fouled alot, hence they have relatively low FGA/FTA ratios.

Butler's about a 3 fga / fta guy...that's not Diane Wade good but it's pretty good.

For reference sake:

Dirk in his MVP year -- 2.4
J-Ho when he didn't suck so much ('06) - 2.8
J-Ho over the last 3 seasons - 3.9
Kidd this year - 7.9
Diane Wade - 2.0

So by this measure Butler isn't as good as Dirk at his best, but with a little bit of want to (a very big factor), he can easily be as good as J-Ho was ca 06 & 07.

sike · 02-15-2010, 12:45 PM

Mavs might be done dealing...

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallasmaveri...e-done-dealing

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-15-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Mavs might not be done dealing...

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallasmaveri...e-done-dealing

Fixed

.

Cool...finding maybe a young athletic 4 or a 3rd string center would be cool.

sike · 02-15-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Fixed

.

Cool...finding maybe a young athletic 4 or a 3rd string center would be cool.

haha...that actually was a fix, thanks.

Rick41 · 02-15-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

The Mavs' moves might not be done after the trade deadline, either. They have two open roster spots. If they aren't filled via trade, Cuban said the plan is wait and see whether the Mavs can land a quality veteran who is released or bought out of his contract.

Drew Gooden.

mavsfan1000 · 02-15-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan2323

i really like jamison, but when he's your best player(he is/was their best player) you're not gonna win that many games. when he's a complimentary player that's when you'll see his teams win a lot of games. throw in that arenas was their pg and that pretty much sums up a 17-33 record.

Best scorer but his defense sucks. I'll take Butler and Haywood over Jamison. Especially on a team that needs defense.

Five-ofan · 02-15-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

as for as the age thing, the mavs just need to get guys that can play at a high level as long as Dirk can play at a high level, after that its' back to the lottery regardless.

I haven't followed this closely...or maybe I should say not at all, but the thing that's bugging me is the Wiz are 17 - 33 with this roster:

Gilbert Arenas (32 games, it's not like he's been gone all season)
Antawn Jamison
Brandon Haywood
Caron Butler
Mike Miller
Randy Foye

That's pretty nice six deep and there's a few other guys who aren't useless. I realize they've had some injuries and shootings (who -hasn't?), but still...that looks better than a 17-33? Are they 17-33 because they're a bunch of soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads?

Did we send our soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads to Washington for their soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads?

Umm when the biggest story concerning your team is that your biggest named player pulled a gun on someone in the locker room its safe to say team chemistry and/or off the court problems might have something to do with a poor record....

mavsfan2323 · 02-15-2010, 01:43 PM

rick41 i love that quote in your sig.

"it's one on five; and dirk is winning"

that's great

mavsfan2323 · 02-15-2010, 01:45 PM

off topic but you guys know how to reduce my sig pic size? i'm sure no one wants to see a foot long sig

EricaLubarsky · 02-15-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Drew Gooden.

Bingo.

I wonder if the Wiz basically said they'd waive him. I know the NBA office say that they havent heard anything about him being waived, but it would be a an absolute coup if we could pick him back up to make the deal essentially Howard+spares for Haywood/Butler.

Gooden is definitely high on my list to re-acquire. He was solid here and provided a lot of offensive versatility-- like KVH with post moves instead of three point range. He'd give us pretty massive depth again

EricaLubarsky · 02-15-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

as for as the age thing, the mavs just need to get guys that can play at a high level as long as Dirk can play at a high level, after that its' back to the lottery regardless.

I haven't followed this closely...or maybe I should say not at all, but the thing that's bugging me is the Wiz are 17 - 33 with this roster:

Gilbert Arenas (32 games, it's not like he's been gone all season)
Antawn Jamison
Brandon Haywood
Caron Butler
Mike Miller
Randy Foye

That's pretty nice six deep and there's a few other guys who aren't useless. I realize they've had some injuries and shootings (who -hasn't?), but still...that looks better than a 17-33? Are they 17-33 because they're a bunch of soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads?

Did we send our soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads to Washington for their soft, pot-smoking knuckleheads?

The team has been a locker-room nightmare all year. Arenas owns that team and there has been a lot of infighting for a long time between everyone in the organization. They have a pile of talent but their #1 guy pulling a gun on a backup is only the beginning of that dysfunction. Its true that other than Haywood, no one is really trying and/or capable of defense, but Butler has always been capable-- he just may have become disinterested there.

Jamison and Miller are pretty piss-poor defenders. Arenas could be a good defender, but he's honestly more interested in 40 FGA than really dominating on both ends and now the whole locker-room cancer exploded and he's no longer with the team.

Theres also the issue of Foye not being himself and being incapable of playing alongside Arenas, and guys like Miller being left on the perimeter without anyone to distribute it to them (which is his real strength).

I think we got the two best overall talents off the team-- both of whom can be effective on both sides of the floor and both of whom were impacted by the poor chemistry of Washington, plus they are some of the better character guys the team had-- guys that were just trying to do their job through the distractions. And for the record Jamison is also one of t he good guys, but he's just not a good defender and could be worse than Gooden. The guys that we got are all at least adequate on their weak side of the floor and strong on the other.

I mean, look at Dirk who is one of the most upstanding players in the league-- he basically succumbed to distraction during our own locker-room nightmare. We lost 5 of our last 7 games. Project that to 50 games and we'd be a worse 14-36. That's the power of distraction on even a talented basketball club. Its hard to call Dirk a pot-headed softy, but if under-performing is the indicator, then you may have to call Dirk that after the last 7 games.

kg_veteran · 02-15-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Nice avatar, kg_veteran - I'm really, really glad you lost that bet!

Me too!

alexamenos · 02-15-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

....when the biggest story concerning your team is that your biggest named player pulled a gun on someone in the locker room its safe to say team chemistry and/or off the court problems might have something to do with a poor record....

exactly.

and if you're GM of a team with lockerroom problems, do you keep the cancerous types and trade away the salt-of-the-earth types?

(obviously it was going to be difficult to move arenas this year)

Why were the Wiz interested in this deal? I haven't heard anything that makes sense (and it may just be ignorance on my part....I'm asking).

I can understand one-sided boondoggles like KG to the Celts (thanks Kevin McHale) or Pau Gasol to the Lakers (thanks Jerry West) as part of an NBA orchestrated conspiracy to bring Celts-Lakers back to the forefront....

....but this mavs-wiz trade looks too good to be true, and I don't trust too goods to be trues.

kg_veteran · 02-15-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Bingo.

I wonder if the Wiz basically said they'd waive him. I know the NBA office say that they havent heard anything about him being waived, but it would be a an absolute coup if we could pick him back up to make the deal essentially Howard+spares for Haywood/Butler.

Gooden is definitely high on my list to re-acquire. He was solid here and provided a lot of offensive versatility-- like KVH with post moves instead of three point range. He'd give us pretty massive depth again

Gooden would be nice to re-acquire because he would give us another option at C against mobile teams. Plus, I'm not sure how serious Dampier's injury really is. If it's not, then Gooden is a luxury. If it is, then we need Gooden or somebody else, and quickly.

Rick41 · 02-15-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan2323

rick41 i love that quote in your sig.

"it's one on five; and dirk is winning"

that's great

Thank you.