PGT: Mavs vs Thunder - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

some1nw · 01-19-2013, 01:03 AM

Obviously none of us is happy with the outcome. The Mavs showed a lot of fight in the 4th quarter and were able to force it to an OT. Ofc, we coulda woulda shoulda it in OT but we didnt. This was an expected loss anyway.

Imo the reason KD scored 52 is that we dont have any smaller guards that can defend swingmen. Marion and VC did a good job on KD, but KD made it rain on Collinson, James and Mayo.

Great effort overall
VC should always be this aggressive
Those shots are gonna come to Dirk
Mayo is becoming a little better at playmaking

ShaggyDirk · 01-19-2013, 01:14 AM

This is the first game I watched a majority of this year. It'll be the last. These aren't the droids you're looking for.

j0Shi · 01-19-2013, 01:14 AM

I save the rant and just pass along the stats:

Collison 27.74 PER, 0.295 WS48, 0.389 WP48
James: 10.29 PER, -0.023 WS48, 0.093 WP48

James outside garbage time now has a 6.32 PER and -0.081 WS48, which is the third worst on the team (Curry, Cunningham).

Team /w James at PG: 91.84 Off - 115.91 Def (-24.07) 42.86% AST%
Team /w Collison at PG: 103.13 Off - 106.45 Def (-3.32) 65.38% AST%

I mean, are you kidding me?

Also:

Nowitzki (PF)+Kaman (C): 111.11 Off - 85.19 Def (+25.92)
Nowitzki (PF)+Brand (C): 93.22 Off - 118.87 Def (-25.65)

33 FTM (OKC) are 4th most all season for any team
33.33% AST% is 6th worst all season for any team
95 FGA are the most for the Thunder this season
18 ORB are the most for the Thunder this seaso
109 are the most possessions Dallas has played so far

Dan1 · 01-19-2013, 01:18 AM

Good effort, team is definitely improving. We took the best team of the league to OT with durant and westbrook beasting and dirk sucking. This will probably be Vince best game of the season tbh but i like his decision making now, looks more agressive. Brand was terrible early on but picked up his game, good to see him on crunchtime. I still cant deal with this mike james situation but i blame more RC than him, collison was having a great game. And again OJs TOs show despite that big 3 to tie the game.

Aggie E · 01-19-2013, 01:18 AM

I miss JJB

sike · 01-19-2013, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

This is the first game I watched a majority of this year. It'll be the last. These aren't the droids you're looking for.

Huh. (As a comment, not a question.)

sike · 01-19-2013, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I save the rant and just pass along the stats:

Collison 27.74 PER, 0.295 WS48, 0.389 WP48
James: 10.29 PER, -0.023 WS48, 0.093 WP48 (worse than Roddy & DoJo)

Team /w James at PG: 91.84 Off - 115.91 Def (-24.07) 42.86% AST%
Team /w Collison at PG: 103.13 Off - 106.45 Def (-3.32) 65.38% AST%

I mean, are you kidding me?

are those single game stats or stats accounting for all of James' Mavs minutes?

Dan1 · 01-19-2013, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggie E

I miss JJB

I miss JKidd

Badly

sike · 01-19-2013, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggie E

I miss JJB

Feel free to watch dribble too much in Minny.

sike · 01-19-2013, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan1

I miss JKidd

Badly

This TEAM misses JKidd. (And obviously no one more than Rick. That dude doesn't know what to do without him.)

ShaggyDirk · 01-19-2013, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Huh. (As a comment, not a question.)

Yeah. Feel better? (As a rhetorical question)

markus1234 · 01-19-2013, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

are those single game stats or stats accounting for all of James' Mavs minutes?

Those stats do not tell much.

Different game situations and different lineups produce different PER and WS numbers.

Collison happened to be on the floor when the MAVS made a run. And James happened to be on the floor when the other team made a run.

The eye test is much better.

Collison is not a point guard and Mike James is a bad point guard. Pick your poison.

j0Shi · 01-19-2013, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

are those single game stats or stats accounting for all of James' Mavs minutes?

This is just for tonight.

James outside garbage time now has a 6.32 PER and -0.081 WS48, which is the third worst on the team (Curry, Cunningham).

Team /w James at PG actually is +9.01 outside garbage time, but looking at his individual stats he might not deserve that much credit for that. Against Houston team was +45 P100 with him while he was a complete disaster.

j0Shi · 01-19-2013, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Different game situations and different lineups produce different PER and WS numbers.

The eye test is much better.

omg

sike · 01-19-2013, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

Yeah. Feel better? (As a rhetorical question)

No. But I do feel informed.

fluid.forty.one · 01-19-2013, 01:35 AM

mike james

sike · 01-19-2013, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Those stats do not tell much.

But they do tell us something.

Quote:

Collison happened to be on the floor when the MAVS made a run. And James happened to be on the floor when the other team made a run.

That at least tells me something.

Quote:

Collison is not a point guard and Mike James is a bad point guard. Pick your poison.

I think I agree with your sentiment, but not your conclusion. I don't think Collison is much a PG right now (and may never be), but he needs to see the floor and Mike James needs to see the DLeague.

sike · 01-19-2013, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

mike james

Is your father?

some1nw · 01-19-2013, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan1

I miss JKidd

Badly

yeah, thats part of what i meant when i said we dont have smaller guards that can guard swingmen.

markus1234 · 01-19-2013, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

omg

MAVS (like Mike James) who played many crunch time/overtime minutes have automatically a much worse PER/WS than guys (Like Roddy or Collison) who played mostly the 1st 45min of a game. This team as a whole simply sucked in crunch time.

Is it so tough to understand ?

Is it so tough to understand that you probably won't find more than 10 possessions where Collison created a high % shot for Dirk ? (just like Devin Harris. But he at least played solid D, finished most of his fast breaks and had ton of 3 pt plays...bigger body)

sike · 01-19-2013, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

MAVS (like Mike James) who played many crunch time/overtime minutes have automatically a much worse PER/WS than guys (Like Roddy or Collison) who played mostly the 1st 45min of a game. This team as a whole simply sucked in crunch time.

Is it so tough to understand ?

Is it so tough to understand that you probably won't find more than 10 possessions where Collison created a high % shot for Dirk ? (just like Devin Harris. But he at least played solid D, finished most of his fast breaks and had ton of 3 pt plays...bigger body)

The point of those stats is something that your "eye test" should also have confirmed: James was brutally and utterly terrible at key points tonight.

twelli · 01-19-2013, 01:51 AM

We can hang with the best. That's great.

markus1234 · 01-19-2013, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

The point of those stats is something that your "eye test" should also have confirmed: James was brutally and utterly terrible at key points tonight.

agreed.

But plz do not act as if Roddy, DoJo and Colloson were better alternatives.

All 4 suck (in different ways).

mac222b · 01-19-2013, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

agreed.

But plz do not act as if Roddy, DoJo and Colloson were better alternatives.

All 4 suck (in different ways).

Disagree. Roddy and DC actually ARE better alternatives

Rick41 · 01-19-2013, 02:04 AM

Mike James for MVP and a max contract.

markus1234 · 01-19-2013, 02:10 AM

"The play blew up and Mike ended up with it, and it was unfair to him," Dallas coach Rick Carlisle said. "It was a play that didn't work, and it was my responsibility."

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba...meId=400278312

twelli · 01-19-2013, 02:26 AM

I am happy for VC. Finally a good shooting game. I think he's a great guy and hope he can have more good games like that.

Elton Brand wasn't that bad overall, but boy did he embarras himself missing from a few feet.

And what was Kaman doing in the corner, copying Dirk's move, air balling the attempt just like Dirk a few minutes earlier. Don't want to see that again.

mac222b · 01-19-2013, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

"The play blew up and Mike ended up with it, and it was unfair to him," Dallas coach Rick Carlisle said. "It was a play that didn't work, and it was my responsibility."

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba...meId=400278312

Wait, didnt the play end with a switch and Mike James with a mismatch?
Was it Rick's responsibility that Mike James decided to chuck an out of rhythm
with 7-8 seconds still left down by 2? In a way, yes

jasonic · 01-19-2013, 03:47 AM

Since RC doesn't want to play Collison in the end and doesn't trust Beaubois either i don't understand why he has to play James. I want him to try playing Marion and one of Carter or Mayo should be the ball handler. I don't like VC or OJ as playmakers, but if the other choice is playing James then i 'm all for it. We should go like this, Mayo-VC-Marion-Dirk-Brand.

Anyway besides that, i really like our team since we started the winning streak. I was dissapointed after the loss of Utah but now there 's been improvement especially in defence (still the rebounding is a big issue..). The chances of being in the playoffs have increased. but still i don't know if we can make it.

I want to see now what Cuban has in mind when he said that we are going to do a trade.

Budapest Maverick · 01-19-2013, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Those stats do not tell much.

Different game situations and different lineups produce different PER and WS numbers.

Collison happened to be on the floor when the MAVS made a run. And James happened to be on the floor when the other team made a run.

The eye test is much better.

Collison is not a point guard and Mike James is a bad point guard. Pick your poison.

If Collison is not a PG then Mike James is also not a PG. James had the same criticism, and was considered a SG in PG's body throughout his career. Just saying.

j0Shi · 01-19-2013, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

MAVS (like Mike James) who played many crunch time/overtime minutes have automatically a much worse PER/WS than guys (Like Roddy or Collison) who played mostly the 1st 45min of a game. This team as a whole simply sucked in crunch time.

Is it so tough to understand ?

Is it so tough to understand that you probably won't find more than 10 possessions where Collison created a high % shot for Dirk ? (just like Devin Harris. But he at least played solid D, finished most of his fast breaks and had ton of 3 pt plays...bigger body)

Yes the team sucked as a unit and each player is credited with that equally (more or less). But IF James would have been the only bright spot in an incompetent team, the stats would reflect that. But they don't. He's not a casualty but part of the cause.

Kante · 01-19-2013, 07:49 AM

Just stop posting markus!

Quote:

The eye test is much better.

This is... just... so... wow...

Kante · 01-19-2013, 07:50 AM

There is a reason why the Mavs went on a run with Collison and it stopped when James came in...

In no way should M. James be on the floor, ever!

Marion:

Quote:

It’s hard to beat anybody when you’re playing five-on-eight

markus1234 · 01-19-2013, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

If Collison is not a PG then Mike James is also not a PG. James had the same criticism, and was considered a SG in PG's body throughout his career. Just saying.

Yes, that's true. But now at 37 he at least tries to look like one.

Do not get me wrong he sucks. But DC/Roddy is not the answer either. I'd rather play VC at PG late in the 4th.

j0Shi · 01-19-2013, 09:20 AM

Btw.: I get that matchups are important, but I rather have the opponent to match up against our best players. And Mike James is our worst player right now. No matchup can be that favorable to compensate for it in my opinion.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-19-2013, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

If Collison is not a PG then Mike James is also not a PG. James had the same criticism, and was considered a SG in PG's body throughout his career. Just saying.

I really think it has to do with age and experience. Fisher isn't much of a "real" pg either.

What irks me is why did they get Collison in the first place? He was never an elite pg and always a scorer first. This experiment of trying to turn shoot first guards into elite decision making pgs isn't working. Honestly though, that plan almost worked for Roddy. That spark he provided was destroyed and the shot went with it. BUT, he suddenly looked like a fairly composed and not so dumb pg out there. Queue Mike James out of nowhere...

Ninkobei · 01-19-2013, 10:20 AM

Probably kneejerking here, but is anyone else getting seriously worried about Dirk? He hasn't been the same since he won the championship and went on his booze-filled celebrations. It's like he is suffering from a multiple year hangover. It's probably unfair for me to say something like that, but its just what I observe. His personality seems different too. Before the championship sure he swore, but he never did so with malice. And it seems a lot more common now. Someone tell me I am crazy please.

j0Shi · 01-19-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Probably kneejerking here, but is anyone else getting seriously worried about Dirk? He hasn't been the same since he won the championship and went on his booze-filled celebrations. It's like he is suffering from a multiple year hangover. It's probably unfair for me to say something like that, but its just what I observe. His personality seems different too. Before the championship sure he swore, but he never did so with malice. And it seems a lot more common now. Someone tell me I am crazy please.

A 30+ player will experience a serious dropoff in production at some point. Sadly it's not out of equation that we'll see it this year. Not too concerned though, bc he had that surgery and probably most of his struggles can be explained that way. But as for the team I think also for him personally it's an uphill climb and he knows it.

Popeye · 01-19-2013, 11:03 AM

The Mavs have to get smarter at the end of quarters. At the end of the 2nd quarter, Darren Collison steals the ball (great play) but then decides to charge right into Kevin Martin instead of holding for the last shot. Westbrook hits a basket at the other end to make them pay.

End of the 3rd quarter Mayo goes 1 on 3 JJB style and misses an impossible layup. Durant hits a 3 pointer at the other end. These 2 sequences cost the mavs AT LEAST 5 points and potentially 9 points if they hit the shots at the end of the quarter.

markus1234 · 01-19-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Probably kneejerking here, but is anyone else getting seriously worried about Dirk? He hasn't been the same since he won the championship and went on his booze-filled celebrations. It's like he is suffering from a multiple year hangover. It's probably unfair for me to say something like that, but its just what I observe. His personality seems different too. Before the championship sure he swore, but he never did so with malice. And it seems a lot more common now. Someone tell me I am crazy please.

Dirk is OK. He is moving well. His rebounding is solid.

But he is hesitating too much on offense. It really pisses me off.

Going 2-11 is really nothing alarming. Kobe, Carmelo, Wade, Durant, Westbrook, Rondo and co. have plenty if 1st halfs like that.

BUT when the game is over they usually are 13-30FG-M 3-8 3P-M for ~30pts.

Dirk on the other hand takes ~3-4 more shots and ends up with a pathetic 4-15 or something like this...

This guy is way too unselfish. (and he always was).