Official Dirk is Great Thread - Page 55 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Every single team that ever won a championship had a better "team" - it's not like Jordan or Bird carried those squads to victory by themselves...

Why does Dirk lose points for Terry having a good playoff run, but nobody else loses points for their teammates stepping up? By that standard, Tim Duncan is ridiculously overrated because Robert Horry hit all those big shots in the playoffs...

GTFO and take your straw man with you.

I didn't imply any of that in my post. Your comment basically says "he beat Wade, LeBron and Bosh with less help". Well, that's really not the case when his "less help" played better in the Finals then the other teams star player.

Everyone needs help to win. That's why I consider titles a team accomplishment. I give Dirk all the props in the world for leading the Mavs to a title. But I won't use the title to trump him over dudes who didn't win titles in completely different era's.

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 12:34 PM

Take it to a different thread, troll.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

The fact that you threw Drexler and Stockton into the mix either shows that you're an idiot or your bias.

Take it to another thread.. this one is a celebration of Dirk's awesomeness.

The name calling really isn't necessary. If you want to discuss do it in a civilized manner or just ignore my posts.

I have Drexler and Stockton in that range (15-25 or so). It's quite debatable that they had better careers than Dirk. Drexler is a top 5 SG. Stockton is arguably the 2nd or 3rd best PG. No one is an idiot for saying they are arguably top 15-25 players all-time, ring or no ring.

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 12:37 PM

Take. It. To. A. Different. Thread.

Perhaps this one:

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...17#post1221717

Again, this thread is in the MAVS sections celebrating our favorite MAVS greatness. Heat fans can discuss why he's NOT great in the other thread.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I don't mean to dignify the absurd comparison between Clyde and Dirk...and I like Clyde, but the fact is that he tied his wagon to Hakeem (arguably a top 10 all time player) to win his rings...Dirk won his without as much as another All Star.

Sheesh.

How do you feel comfortable using titles to distinguish players when they played in completely different era's, against completely different teams? Using Drexler as an example, why would you knock him for losing in the Finals against teams that probably would have won the title this year too (90 Pistons, 92 Bulls)? Do you think any team from this past season would have beaten the 90 Pistons or 92 Bulls in a series?

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Like I said, take this to a different thread. This thread is about Dirk's greatness. You're stinking up the place.

I said Dirk is great. I have him in the top 20 or so players and think he can maybe get into the 15-20 range. I don't see how that's an insult. Other posters in this thread also have him in that same range. If you aren't telling them they are stinking up the place then don't tell me.

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 12:48 PM

I'm not sure how else to explain it. This thread is a place for us actual Mavs fans to discuss and celebrate Dirk's greatness and is NOT the place to discuss why ___, ___, ____, ___ are better than him for pages and pages. That's why there is a "Top 25 all time" thread. Pretty easy concept to understand.

But, predictably I'm sure you will continue to respond in this thread and muck it up like the troll you are instead of posting your thoughts in the appropriate thread.

It would be like if the Suns won the finals finally, made a thread saying THANK YOU STEVE NASH!!, and some Mavs fan came over and turned it into a debate about why Kidd/Payton/Stockton/Magic are all better. Not the time or place. The part that is the most frustrating is that there IS that place in your case: http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...17#post1221717

And before you say "But others were listing top 25 lists in this thread!!!", those were more just Mavs fans being happy and seeing how high they could make Dirk. There's a difference between that, and someone coming along and saying "nope.. Don't get too excited. Here's 3 pages of why these 4+ players are better.. lets change the subject to that".

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Take. It. To. A. Different. Thread.

Perhaps this one:

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...17#post1221717

Again, this thread is in the MAVS sections celebrating our favorite MAVS greatness. Heat fans can discuss why he's NOT great in the other thread.

I'll take it to a different thread as soon as you tell these posters to do the same for their comments:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkules41

NBA on ESPN asked on Facebook if Dirk is a Top 10 all time great. Seems like there are many haters who think hes not even Top 100...

I would say hes not Top 10, but Top 20 for sure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I love Dirk more than anyone...but he isn't Top 10...YET. Another ring and a few more All-NBA seasons, and he has a real argument. However, he definitely is Top 25 now, and I'd argue Top 15 myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Dirk right now has to be top 30. And when all is said and done, I think he'll have to be top 15-20.

These guys seem to think Dirk is currently a 20-30 range guy that can get in the 10-20 range when his career is over. So how the hell am I trolling for saying this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

Great postseason run by Dirk. He really silenced all the critics. I have him in the top 25-30 range now. Since his game isn't built on athleticism he may be able to play many more seasons and jump in the top 20. I don't think there is any way he can crack the top 15 but I think he can get between 16-20.

Simply because you think, yes "think", that I am a Heat fan? I have him in the same range as those dudes and we are basically discussing 5 spots or so.

Edit: See the response below, in response to your post above this one. Responding to folks questions is not trolling. See my initial post. Don't jump on me for posting a ranking just as others have. With that being said I do see the other thread, but don't try to call me out for doing the same thing other posters are doing.

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

And before you say "But others were listing top 25 lists in this thread!!!", those were more just Mavs fans being happy and seeing how high they could make Dirk. There's a difference between that, and someone coming along and saying "nope.. Don't get too excited. Here's 3 pages of why these 4+ players are better.. lets change the subject to that".

I listed my ranking just as others did. I asked someone about their rankings. When someone asked me about mine, I responded. That is not trolling. See my initial post.

sike · 06-22-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

I said Dirk is great. I have him in the top 20 or so players and think he can maybe get into the 15-20 range. I don't see how that's an insult. Other posters in this thread also have him in that same range. If you aren't telling them they are stinking up the place then don't tell me.

the appropriate place to take your discussion is here: http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...17#post1221717

since you've been polite thus far, I'm not treating you as a troll...but please realize the nature of your current discussion is foreign to this thread. So if it continues here, I'll need to address it.

Thanks

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 12:59 PM

I think I laid out the difference in their comments and your comments very clearly.

And for the record, the post you just quoted of yourself WASN'T a bad post. If you would have just left it at that....

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 01:02 PM

anyway....

I found this interesting tidbit on wiki today:

"Only Nowitzki and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar have managed four consecutive 30-point 15-rebound games in the playoffs."

kingmalaki · 06-22-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

the appropriate place to take your discussion is here: http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...17#post1221717

since you've been polite thus far, I'm not treating you as a troll...but please realize the nature of your current discussion is foreign to this thread. So if it continues here, I'll need to address it.

Thanks

That's understandable but my initial post was similar to the other posts that I read in this thread. "Dirk is great, I have him here now and maybe he can get here when he is done". I'm just saying don't knock me or call me out for coming in a thread, seeing others drop their opinion on a matter, sharing my opinion on the same matter (it's a Dirk is great thread), and discussing it with others expressing their opinions on rankings.

fluid.forty.one · 06-22-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

That's understandable but my initial post was similar to the other posts that I read in this thread.

That's the freaking point... It would be different if you left it alone after your initial post. Give it a rest.

LonghornDub · 06-22-2011, 01:11 PM

Heat troll is Heat troll.

sike · 06-22-2011, 01:13 PM

in response to my directive/warning

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

That's understandable but...

Sir, this is a "Fanboy Give Dirk Props Thread". Not a place for well reasoned discussion.

Stop sullying the sheer delight of this innocent paradise.

I'm serious now. Stop.

Go to the link I provided and discuss til your heart's content.

sike · 06-22-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

anyway....

I found this interesting tidbit on wiki today:

"Only Nowitzki and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar have managed four consecutive 30-point 15-rebound games in the playoffs."

That's Good Company.

LonghornDub · 06-22-2011, 01:21 PM

Just came across this pretty tricky Sporcle quiz, "Can you name the player who has won an NBA Title between LeBron and Dirk?""

http://www.sporcle.com/games/bigpapi/lebron-or-dirk

You guys let me know if you need any help.

Murphy3 · 06-22-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

That is a very good point. I don't think his postseason numbers set him apart from the guys in that 10-20 range. Maybe for the guys in the 20-30 range.

Dirk's postseason numbers are 25, 10, 3 on 46%, 38% and 89%. This was arguably his best postseason. Those postseason numbers aren't really any better than the postseason numbers of Malone, Barkley, West, Dr J, Baylor, etc. And Dirk hasn't hit his decline yet like some of those guys, so his playoff numbers will drop some.

Well, maybe you should actually look at the numbers.

WinShares per 48 in playoff history:
1. Jordan .553
2. Mikan .2541
3. LeBron James .2218
4. Magic .2078
5. Dirk .2067
6. West .2031
12. Barkley .1932
29. Dr. J .1756 ABA/NBA
55. Dr. J .1493 NBA only
77. Karl Malone .1396
97. Elgin Baylor .1338

Player Efficiency Rating in playoff history
7. Dirk 24.75
10. Barkley 24.18
13. West 23.06
22. Julius Erving 22.05 ABA/NBA
23. Elgin Baylor 21.83
40. Julius Erving 19.96 NBA only
31. Karl Malone 21.12 (ahead of OscarRobertson but behind Paul Gasol and Baron freaking Davis)

Dirk leads both statistical ratings. Obviously Barkley and West aren't too far off, but Dirk separates himself nicely from Dr. J, Elgin Baylor, and Karl Malone when it comes to the playoffs.

And statistically, this was as close to an "average" playoff run as Dirk's had in his career. His WS/48 was at .210. His career playoff w/s is .2067. So yeah, Dirk was rather average this year as far as the numbers go. He was just huge in the clutch.

I can't find the numbers to back this up just yet, but I'd be willing to bet that this was at least a top 2-3 most statistically clutch performance in the history of the NBA for any of the Finals MVP's..ever. Sometimes it's not always about your numbers on the whole but when you get the numbers. Dirk had a solid post season this year, but he was a basketball God in the final 5:00 minutes of games decided by 5 or fewer points.

LonghornDub · 06-22-2011, 01:55 PM

Special delivery for Heat troll:

xrobx · 06-22-2011, 02:21 PM

btw, hakeem doesn't get any rings either if not for jordan playing baseball

Murphy3 · 06-22-2011, 02:27 PM

Wow..no advanced notice on this one... Dirk was just on for an extended interview with TheHardline on TheTicket. I'm beginning to wonder what this guy does during the day other than shoot basketballs and listen to sports talk radio. it's obvious that he listens to Bob and Dan some, TheHardline, and Ben and Skin...

Great interview though...

mavspwnage · 06-22-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Wow..no advanced notice on this one... Dirk was just on for an extended interview with TheHardline on TheTicket. I'm beginning to wonder what this guy does during the day other than shoot basketballs and listen to sports talk radio. it's obvious that he listens to Bob and Dan some, TheHardline, and Ben and Skin...

Great interview though...

When linkage is able to be provided for this, it will be greatly appreciated.

CadBane · 06-22-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Well, maybe you should actually look at the numbers.

WinShares per 48 in playoff history:
1. Jordan .553
2. Mikan .2541
3. LeBron James .2218
4. Magic .2078
5. Dirk .2067
6. West .2031
12. Barkley .1932
29. Dr. J .1756 ABA/NBA
55. Dr. J .1493 NBA only
77. Karl Malone .1396
97. Elgin Baylor .1338

Player Efficiency Rating in playoff history
7. Dirk 24.75
10. Barkley 24.18
13. West 23.06
22. Julius Erving 22.05 ABA/NBA
23. Elgin Baylor 21.83
40. Julius Erving 19.96 NBA only
31. Karl Malone 21.12 (ahead of OscarRobertson but behind Paul Gasol and Baron freaking Davis)

Dirk leads both statistical ratings. Obviously Barkley and West aren't too far off, but Dirk separates himself nicely from Dr. J, Elgin Baylor, and Karl Malone when it comes to the playoffs.

And statistically, this was as close to an "average" playoff run as Dirk's had in his career. His WS/48 was at .210. His career playoff w/s is .2067. So yeah, Dirk was rather average this year as far as the numbers go. He was just huge in the clutch.

I can't find the numbers to back this up just yet, but I'd be willing to bet that this was at least a top 2-3 most statistically clutch performance in the history of the NBA for any of the Finals MVP's..ever. Sometimes it's not always about your numbers on the whole but when you get the numbers. Dirk had a solid post season this year, but he was a basketball God in the final 5:00 minutes of games decided by 5 or fewer points.

This. Murph beat me to it. I saw King Troll's nonsensical post and was all ready to bust his ass, but Murph did it for me.

I'm sorry, but you lose ALL credibility when you say things as stupid as "Dirk wasn't any better in the playoffs than Malone, Dr. J., etc."

CadBane · 06-22-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

Dirk does not have better playoff numbers than Karl Malone. You are looking at his career numbers, which includes his post prime years. Dirk's playoff numbers will drop. I agree that Dirk didn't have the 2nd star that Malone did, but it seems like you are bumping him over Malone and Barkley based on him winning a title. Do you see Dirk winning a title in their era?

You're a dense little fucker, aren't you? You're actually right. Dirk does not have better playoff numbers than Malone...he has SUPERIOR playoff numbers.

Playoff Dirk: 25 PER, 58% TS, .207 WS/48, 119 ORtg, 107 DRtg

Playoff Malone: 21 PER, 53% TS, .140 WS/48, 106 ORtg, 103 DRtg

Dirk just destroys him. Only thing Malone has a slight edge in is defense.

Kind of hard to pull the "prime" card as well, considering pre-age 32 Malone Playoff PER high was 25. Dirk has already topped that SIX times. Dirk has had SIX better post-seasons than Malone had by the same age.

You're done, bozo.

Big Boy Laroux · 06-22-2011, 03:30 PM

Let's get this thread back on track, or maybe on another tangent, with some trivia! tried this on twitter, but no one responded.

In honor of dirk winning his first championship:

Of all the foreign born NBA players, which one has the most NBA Championship rings?

No internet searching. Winner gets rep from me. Boo Yah!

dalger · 06-22-2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavspwnage

When linkage is able to be provided for this, it will be greatly appreciated.

Okay, here we go:

Click here to listen to or download Dirk's 27-minute interview on The Ticket

LonghornDub · 06-22-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Let's get this thread back on track, or maybe on another tangent, with some trivia! tried this on twitter, but no one responded.

In honor of dirk winning his first championship:

Of all the foreign born NBA players, which one has the most NBA Championship rings?

No internet searching. Winner gets rep from me. Boo Yah!

Are we talking guys who truly are of a different nationality? I think Steve Kerr was born in Europe somewhere, and he has five. Duncan was born on St Croix and he has 4.

If you mean a truly different nationality...I can't think of anyone with more rings than Parker and Manu (3 each).

Big Boy Laroux · 06-22-2011, 03:42 PM

What is your final answer? The question is what the question is.

LonghornDub · 06-22-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

What is your final answer? The question is what the question is.

The question is ambiguous.

But on a strict reading...Kerr.

Big Boy Laroux · 06-22-2011, 03:50 PM

Yes indeed! not ambiguous at all - "foreign born" is "foreign born". Kerr was born in Lebanon.

Kudos, i stumped a bunch of my friends over the past few days. You use google well!

He's also the only non-celtic to win 4 championships in a row.

Bayliss · 06-22-2011, 03:52 PM

Kerr is the Brian Cardinal of trivia questions.

LonghornDub · 06-22-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Yes indeed! not ambiguous at all - "foreign born" is "foreign born". Kerr was born in Lebanon.

Kudos, i stumped a bunch of my friends over the past few days. You use google well!

He's also the only non-celtic to win 4 championships in a row.

Like I said, you can read it strictly to eliminate the ambiguity, but you know as well as I do when talking heads talk about "foreign-born" players, even using those exact words, they don't usually talk about guys like Kerr. There's a subtext to that phrase that implies something different than the literal words.

Hence the ambiguity.

But hey, I got it right. Although I didn't know he was born in Lebanon...just knew it was Europe somewhere.

Big Boy Laroux · 06-22-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Like I said, you can read it strictly to eliminate the ambiguity, but you know as well as I do when talking heads talk about "foreign-born" players, even using those exact words, they don't usually talk about guys like Kerr. There's a subtext to that phrase that implies something different than the literal words.

Absolutely, that's why it's a great trivia question. well, i thought it was.

Most of my friends said Duncan, so at least they were on the right path. One said Kobe, having known he lived in Italy (but he was born in Philly).

LonghornDub · 06-22-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Absolutely, that's why it's a great trivia question. well, i thought it was.

Most of my friends said Duncan, so at least they were on the right path. One said Kobe, having known he lived in Italy (but he was born in Philly).

It was a good question. You got some rep in return.

For a second, I was trying to decide if Robert Horry was born in some random foreign country too.