Finley for Van Exel - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Captain Disaster · 11-24-2003, 08:30 PM

This would be a great trade for both teams.

bogey · 11-24-2003, 08:37 PM

Oh lord Craptain....not again!

Jamisonite · 11-24-2003, 08:42 PM

i dont know what to say here...im just gonna be quiet

bogey · 11-24-2003, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
i dont know what to say here...im just gonna be quiet

hahahaha...I feel your pain.

Jamisonite · 11-24-2003, 08:47 PM

simply put my friend...if GS wanted this in any sort of way...we wouldve shipped Fin to em in the first place...they already have J Rich at the 2 and Dunleavy at the 3.

LRB · 11-24-2003, 08:51 PM

LOL. Good one Captain Disaster. SLOL.

Captain Disaster · 11-24-2003, 08:57 PM

As everyone snickers & smirks, think about this:

1. Van Exel hasn't played much & hasn't been that inspired so far.
2. Finley has an INSANE contract that will only seem worse over time as he ages.
3. Quality point guards are RARE.
4. What if Nash goes down? Everyone keeps talking about Dirk, Fin, Walker, Jamison; Nash is our MVP.
5. The reason we trade Fin is to get from under his contract while he is still valuable; he is no longer a critical piece. Other players can give us what we get from him for far less money. Best and/or Delk do not replace Nash.

grndmstr_c · 11-24-2003, 09:10 PM

I think...head...going to...explode.

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Captain Disaster · 11-24-2003, 09:15 PM

Your head has definitely exploded.

Walkerforthree · 11-24-2003, 09:21 PM

Good trade actually. Then let's trade Nash for Avery, Dirk for Dampier and Mills and Twan for J Rich and Claxton.

Psychedelic Fuzz · 11-24-2003, 10:50 PM

someone got a little happy with the emoticons...
if we need a point guard, how about we trade Bradley for Boykins. oh wait, then we need a center, how about Jamison for Stepania?

Simon2 · 11-24-2003, 11:12 PM

I would do it in a heartbeat. I can't sleep at night from the guilt of stealing away Jamison from the Warriors. Hopefully, this will clear my conscience.

LRB · 11-25-2003, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Psychedelic Fuzz
someone got a little happy with the emoticons...
if we need a point guard, how about we trade Bradley for Boykins. oh wait, then we need a center, how about Jamison for Stepania?

Fuzz you forget our coach, Bradley for Boykins because we need a center. Can't you just see Big Earl intimidating people as he close down the lane. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Nash13 · 11-24-2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

This pretty much describe the content of this thread.

bogey · 11-24-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Nash13

Quote:

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

This pretty much describe the content of this thread.

The Nash waxes poetic! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

MavsFanFinley · 11-25-2003, 12:20 AM

Repeat after me...

Small Ball.

If this trade went through, NVE wouldn't be Nash's backup. He'd be playing alongside Nash once again.

jayC · 11-25-2003, 12:21 AM

No.

Psychedelic Fuzz · 11-25-2003, 12:35 AM

A very ancient and wise poster and I once rationalized playing tony delk at center. I guess those reasons work here too.
If all else fails, boykins can slow down an opposing center by grabbing onto his leg and forcing the opponent to drag him around the court.

LRB · 11-25-2003, 12:43 AM

Quote:

If all else fails, boykins can slow down an opposing center by grabbing onto his leg and forcing the opponent to drag him around the court.

Too bad we don't have Jeff Van Gundy as coach, he seems to have mastered that technique. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Dirkenstien · 11-25-2003, 02:09 AM

Dear lord, .. is this a serious proposition, or the product of a trollish thread. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

bogey · 11-25-2003, 02:12 AM

I don't know if he means to troll, but rather portrays a lack of general basketball understanding, either by intent or ignorant bliss.

Captain Disaster · 11-25-2003, 02:14 AM

"I don't know if he means to troll, but rather portrays a lack of general basketball understanding, either by intent or ignorant bliss."

What's your excuse? Or maybe you can just sit back "above the fray" and insult rather than engage.

Captain Disaster · 11-25-2003, 02:12 AM

"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters."
- Frank Lloyd Wright

Don't epitomize your own quote.

LRB · 11-25-2003, 02:15 AM

I say definitely not troll. Even if I think the idea is ridiculous, I still enjoyed the thread.

Dirkenstien · 11-25-2003, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters."
- Frank Lloyd Wright

Don't epitomize your own quote.

It is rediculous trade propositions such as the one you have based this entire "thread" ( thread may be an overstatement ) on in which command such quotes as the one currently placed upon my signature to have been written.

Although, I do understand how you can claim I may be epitomizing such a quote considering that by even responding to such foolish notions only mirrors the ignorance of basketball knowledge in which the "thread" is derived.

u2sarajevo · 11-26-2003, 07:40 PM

I cannot believe I missed this thread. The Craptain strikes again!

Finley for VanExel? Mr. Disaster please go back to smoking your crack.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

FreshJive · 11-28-2003, 06:39 PM

The Captain never disappoints.

mavsfan4life · 12-01-2003, 09:42 AM

your a fucking retard! yes, van exel is a badass, but look at what Finley is doing for us right now

Captain Disaster · 12-01-2003, 10:41 PM

And what's that? He makes $13 million a year; he should be doing a lot more.

Thanks for the wonderful compliment.

LRB · 12-02-2003, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
And what's that? He makes $13 million a year; he should be doing a lot more.

Thanks for the wonderful compliment.

No, he shouldn't. That's not his role on this team. He makes $13 million and what he should be doing is fulfilling the role his coach and GM have asked him to do. Cand Fin do this better? Yes. Should he do it better? Yes. But he's not that far off either. Fin's main role is to :

1) play better and good D. He's made lots of improvements here and I'm happy to say when he been playing pretty good especially when he's mainly at the 2.
2) rebound when we need him to. Fin's rebounds are down in general, but he's been there quite often when we've needed him. The truth of the matter is that this team needs his rebounding much less than at any time during his career. But he's been able to deliver some huge rebounds when needed.
3) Score less. Fin has been asked to scale back his game. Instead of throwing a juvenile hissy fit he's taken a mature approach and has done what was asked.
4) Make the outside shot to keep the D honest. Here he's struggled, but so has the team as a whole. He'll come out of it. A lot of it has to do with the team needing to jell. We'd have had worse problems it NVE was here.
5) provide Mature leadership in helping team jell. Doing great.

I just don't get the idiotacy of some people's expecations of player based on their salary. Fin is not expected to lead this team in scoring, rebounds, assists, minutes, FG%, FT%, or 3pt%. When I say is not expected, I mean by his employer, not some ignorant fan. Fin's job is not to please the ignorant masses, but rather like most of us, to please his employer. And damn it if he isn't doing pretty good.

Now as to getting NVE, that has got to be one of the most inane and worthless ideas that I have every wasted brain cells to procss. Let's look at Fin's role and how NVE would do:

1) Worse. NVE has trouble spelling D much less playing it. He actually makes me think I could drag my fat ass out there and if not do better at least not do worse. To call his D inept is kind. He's just flat out not skilled and even with great effort still isn't that good. We'd be in a mell of a hess depending on NVE for D.

2) NVE is shorter, less athletic, and a flat out much worse rebounder. We such here if we have NVE.

3) Score less. Nick did a fairly good job cutting back his game during his time at Dallas. I gotta give him credit, but to do so to the extent Fin is being asked to, no way in hell. During Nicks last few months he kept jacking up tons of ill advised shots. Did this in the playoffs too. Helped us in the 1st 2 series and killed us in the last one. Bottom line is that Nick just isn't as good at doing this and still being able to contribute as Fin is.

4) Fin is struggling mightily and is still shooting better than NVE has for his career. Comparing Fin to NVE's shooting performance this year only widens the gap. NVE has always shot like there has been a perpetual door open.

5) The F'em was nice. But one saying doesn't a leader make. Fin has been and will always be the hear and soul of this team. He's the major leadership force in getting it here. NVE has never accomplished anything like this. It' not that he's a terrible leader, just not in the same class as Fin.

So please, please, please pull that $13 million dollar bug out of you butt and just get over it. If Fin's employers are happy that he's doing what is asked of him why can't you?

Captain Disaster · 12-02-2003, 08:16 PM

I actually agree with both of the last two posts to a certain degree; I'm also not necessarily in love with Van Exel. And yes, I recognize both player's shortcomings. And yes, I realize that this trade is just fantasy. However, I'm still highly disappointed in Finley despite LRB's excellent post. Finley's stongest feature is free throw shooting IMO, what he needs to do is: GET TO THE LINE. If he went to the hole with authority consistently, the Mavericks would be a MUCH BETTER team. He continues to jack up shots ala Walker. Earlier in his career, Fin DID go to the hole, and his FG% benefitted as well. I'm not sure if he doesn't go to the hole because:

1. He's developed a bad habit of settling for jumpers.
2. He's a step slower and/or less explosive.
3. His ballhandling skills have declined.
4. He fears contact.
5. He has less stamina.

Or some other reason? I still like Finley, & believe it or not, I would hate to see him go, but he's been very painful to watch for awhile now, and since basketball is a business, there may come a time when he has to go UNLESS he can turn it around quickly. The window of opportunity for a championship will not last forever.

LRB · 12-02-2003, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
I actually agree with both of the last two posts to a certain degree; I'm also not necessarily in love with Van Exel. And yes, I recognize both player's shortcomings. And yes, I realize that this trade is just fantasy. However, I'm still highly disappointed in Finley despite LRB's excellent post. Finley's stongest feature is free throw shooting IMO, what he needs to do is: GET TO THE LINE. If he went to the hole with authority consistently, the Mavericks would be a MUCH BETTER team. He continues to jack up shots ala Walker. Earlier in his career, Fin DID go to the hole, and his FG% benefitted as well. I'm not sure if he doesn't go to the hole because:

1. He's developed a bad habit of settling for jumpers.
2. He's a step slower and/or less explosive.
3. His ballhandling skills have declined.
4. He fears contact.
5. He has less stamina.

Or some other reason? I still like Finley, & believe it or not, I would hate to see him go, but he's been very painful to watch for awhile now, and since basketball is a business, there may come a time when he has to go UNLESS he can turn it around quickly. The window of opportunity for a championship will not last forever.

1. Fin did have to develop the habit of settling for jumpers because for several years he was it for the Mavs. And the lanes were clogged. It is hard to break well established habits. Still I've see Fin being more agressive in a higher percentage of his scoring oppotunities. Would I like to see him more aggressive? Yes, but he is making the effort. And slowly but surely he's beigining to get that jumper back. Fin's role though isn't to take it to the basket every 3rd or 4th possession. If he did that, then he'd be failing at his job. Still there is room to improve within his role.

2. Players tend to slow down as they get older. A very unfortunate fact of life. Fin is still quick for the NBA, just not as quick as he was. He can still explode, just does it less. Again that's age. Even happened to MJ, and I'm talking about while the Bulls had the run of the NBA.

3. I strongly disagree with you here. I actually think that Mike has gotten better this year in that aspect. He's doing more than in years past. Still it's frustrating at times wishing that his handles were up to speed with most of the rest of his game. But I do think he's gotten better not worse.

4. I wouldn't say that he fears contact. He just knows that he's human and can be injured. It's more wisdom than fear. Players in their youth tend to attack the basket with reckless abandon believing they are immortal and can't be hurt. As they age, they learn that they can. Fin still will seek out contact, just not like in his youthful days.

5. Players lose stamina as they age. This isn't all bad. We have some excellent rookies waiting in the wings desperate for minutes. Having Fin take a few more breathers doesn't really hurt us like in years past and will help us in years to come. Of course Fin is playing more and better D. That's much more tiring than just playing O primarily.

As for Fin turning it around, he's still one of the better shooting guards in the league. We don't need him to be Kobe or TMac, just very good will do especially if he plays D. And if we lose Fin, then who do we get to replace him? If he's no good to us, then who would want him? Remember that the Mavs care less about exorbitant salaries than probably any other team in the league. Pluse how do we replace Fin's leadership in helping this unprecedented collection of stars to swallow their collective egos and jell as a team?

Long and short is that Fin is far more valuable to the Mavs than to any other team. So logic dicates that we'd get less than his present value by trading him. So why do it? Not for the money. We'd have to take equal money back in trade. While we might get a shorter contract in therory, why would any other team which admitedly cares more about the cap and money do this? IMO they won't. So we gain a good deal keeping Fin, and stand to lose if we trade him.

Do we cut off our nose to spite our face?