Mavs to target Joe Johnson - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sike · 06-30-2010, 05:31 PM

rumor is that the Hawks will offer 6 years max...

mac222b · 06-30-2010, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

rumor is that the Hawks will offer 6 years max...

that might put a dent in our future plans. he can't possibly want to go back can he? that team has plateaued big time, with no reinforcements in sight, a new unproven coach and bad ownership.

grndmstr_c · 06-30-2010, 09:27 PM

Edit because I just looked at the AJC article and it states, "they are prepared to offer him a six-year contract for the maximum amount allowed, according to people with knowledge of their plans."

I guess we'll see.

BGMaverick9 · 06-30-2010, 09:30 PM

All I've heard is max contract, not specific in terms of max length or max money.

grndmstr_c · 06-30-2010, 10:08 PM

Latest tweet from Woj:

Quote:

League exec. says ATL owners thought for offering Joe Johnson max deal is they won't still own Hawks at end of contract to have to pay it.

Yup. If I'm a free agent that's where I want to play.

Dirkenstien · 06-30-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Latest tweet from Woj:

Yup. If I'm a free agent that's where I want to play.

lol. WTHeck is going on with Atlanta's front office? What a joke.

grndmstr_c · 06-30-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

lol. WTHeck is going on with Atlanta's front office? What a joke.

If there's a plus side, at least that would seem to leave open the possibility that their cooperation can be purchased should JJ decide he'd rather make that money elsewhere.

twelli · 06-30-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

i'm not very excited about this deal, just another streaky shooter who disappears in the playoffs

this

I don't want him, if that's the best trade we are going to make

SMC0007 · 07-01-2010, 12:02 AM

I'm not so sure JJ would jump all over a max deal...in ATL. Just because they are offering doesn't mean he's accepting if they are truly offering that. Also, it just seems illogical that you max out a player that gets booed at home anyway.

sike · 07-01-2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'm not so sure JJ would jump all over a max deal...in ATL. Just because they are offering doesn't mean he's accepting if they are truly offering that. Also, it just seems illogical that you max out a player that gets booed at home anyway.

from his perspective, you take the most money and let the boos figure themselves out. Max money for 6 yrs for a guy like JJ is insane.

SMC0007 · 07-01-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

from his perspective, you take the most money and let the boos figure themselves out. Max money for 6 yrs for a guy like JJ is insane.

But how far off would he be from that in NY where a fresh start could be nice or even better Dallas where he gets a fresh start a ready to win team and everything else that is a bonus over ATL. Is the money really that far off, especially if winning is top priority?

grndmstr_c · 07-01-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

from his perspective, you take the most money and let the boos figure themselves out. Max money for 6 yrs for a guy like JJ is insane.

You're assuming nobody else will be willing to pay that amount in a S&T?

Dirkenstien · 07-01-2010, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You're assuming nobody else will be willing to pay that amount in a S&T?

Yeah I think even Cuban would think twice about it. That is a huge chunk of money for an aging guard that just came off a terrible postseason performance. It's probably not worth it for Dallas and definitely not worth it for Atlanta but if they want to overpay him they can go right ahead.

jthig32 · 07-01-2010, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Yeah I think even Cuban would think twice about it. That is a huge chunk of money for an aging guard that just came off a terrible postseason performance. It's probably not worth it for Dallas and definitely not worth it for Atlanta but if they want to overpay him they can go right ahead.

I wouldn't really call 29 "aging".

And there is absolutely zero chance of getting Johnson via a SnT without giving him the max. I assure you, Cuban knows this. There's too much cap space floating around. Hell there are reports that teams are preparing to give Mike freaking Miller a multi year deal for more than the MLE.

Dirkenstien · 07-01-2010, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I wouldn't really call 29 "aging".

And there is absolutely zero chance of getting Johnson via a SnT without giving him the max. I assure you, Cuban knows this. There's too much cap space floating around. Hell there are reports that teams are preparing to give Mike freaking Miller a multi year deal for more than the MLE.

Yeah aging probably wasn't the correct term right now at only 29 but he will be 35-36 in the last year making almost 25 million. In a year or two that contract is going to be one of the worst in the league. It's borderline understandable if you're a championship contender and you want to lock your guys in but if you're Atlanta it doesn't make much sense at all because it ties you down for future moves. That contract will be extremely difficult if not impossible to move. They essentially just married Joe Johnson, the guy who called out their fans and had a horrible series against Orlando.

Cuban probably would agree to it because it would give us a better chance at a championship in our 2-3 prime year window and may have given us even more material to pitch to Lebron but the day will come when Joe Johnson is 33 and still has three more seasons on his contract for $21, $23, and $25 million a season. If you truly think you can get a championship, it may be worth it. But if not ...

tcat075 · 07-01-2010, 09:13 AM

I still wonder why Atlanta is seen as such a terrible place. Horford and Smith are both in there mid-20's, Crawford is still pretty young, and Jeff Teague showed some promise last year. Is it just that Atlanta doesn't have any real money to make any drastic additions/improvements to the team, and so they are just going to remain the same thing they are: a #4/5 seed who can maybe win a series?

tcat075 · 07-01-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Yeah aging probably wasn't the correct term right now at only 29 but he will be 35-36 in the last year making almost 25 million. In a year or two that contract is going to be one of the worst in the league. It's borderline understandable if you're a championship contender and you want to lock your guys in but if you're Atlanta it doesn't make much sense at all because it ties you down for future moves. That contract will be extremely difficult if not impossible to move. They essentially just married Joe Johnson, the guy who called out their fans and had a horrible series against Orlando.

Cuban probably would agree to it because it would give us a better chance at a championship in our 2-3 prime year window and may have given us even more material to pitch to Lebron but the day will come when Joe Johnson is 33 and still has three more seasons on his contract for $21, $23, and $25 million a season. If you truly think you can get a championship, it may be worth it. But if not ...

Johnson is more a jump shooter, less of an freak athlete, so his decline may not come until 35/36. Just something to keep in mind.

Underdog · 07-01-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Yeah aging probably wasn't the correct term right now at only 29 but he will be 35-36 in the last year making almost 25 million. In a year or two that contract is going to be one of the worst in the league. It's borderline understandable if you're a championship contender and you want to lock your guys in but if you're Atlanta it doesn't make much sense at all because it ties you down for future moves. That contract will be extremely difficult if not impossible to move. They essentially just married Joe Johnson, the guy who called out their fans and had a horrible series against Orlando.

Cuban probably would agree to it because it would give us a better chance at a championship in our 2-3 prime year window and may have given us even more material to pitch to Lebron but the day will come when Joe Johnson is 33 and still has three more seasons on his contract for $21, $23, and $25 million a season. If you truly think you can get a championship, it may be worth it. But if not ...

Sounds like another possible Michael Finely situation to me...

dalger · 07-01-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Johnson is more a jump shooter, less of an freak athlete, so his decline may not come until 35/36. Just something to keep in mind.

Like an equally jump-shooting guy named Jason Terry, whose decline, at age 32, isn't even close to arriving...

6 years and $119 million for 29-year-old Joe Johnson--that's just an awful lot of money for a player like him. I'm not saying he isn't good, but THAT good?

tcat075 · 07-01-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

Like an equally jump-shooting guy named Jason Terry, whose decline, at age 32, isn't even close to arriving...

6 years and $119 million for 29-year-old Joe Johnson--that's just an awful lot of money for a player like him. I'm not saying he isn't good, but THAT good?

Oh, I'm not saying its a good idea. Way too much, in my opinion. But I don't think his decline will be as drastic as Dwyane Wade's, or Josh Smith's, or all those other great players who are great because of athleticism.

jthig32 · 07-01-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

Like an equally jump-shooting guy named Jason Terry, whose decline, at age 32, isn't even close to arriving...

6 years and $119 million for 29-year-old Joe Johnson--that's just an awful lot of money for a player like him. I'm not saying he isn't good, but THAT good?

I feel like you're not very familiar with Joe Johnson's game if you're comparing him to Jason Terry. That's a ridiculous comparison.

dalger · 07-01-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I feel like you're not very familiar with Joe Johnson's game if you're comparing him to Jason Terry. That's a ridiculous comparison.

I wasn't comparing him to JET. Instead, I half-seriously commented on tcat's post in which he said that jump shooters generally don't decline as badly as players who rely on their outstanding athleticism. That's probably true in many cases, however, there's no guarantee that Joe Johnson will be one of those players who can play at a maximum contract level until his mid-30's or even most of the time of his 6-year contract. Jason Terry, another jump shooter, most likely won't be awesome to watch until that point of his career, whereas Ray Allen has been pretty damn good until age 35.

The thing is, when I look at the years and money with his (playoff) numbers and the reactions to his game out of Atlanta in mind, I'm not sure that this is the greatest no-brainer of a deal we could hope for.

Many players like Kidd, Garnett, Duncan, Allen, Shaq or Kobe have received maximum contracts that would pay them some serious money until their mid-30's and to a point where they would already be on the decline. However, all of them justified that salary due to their contributions on the court, especially in the playoffs. That's why Dirk will receive four more years at max money, because he's earned it. Is Joe Johnson really that type of player? He seems more like a Ginobili than a Duncan, so a salary in the $15 million range would be easier to swallow.