Minny considering trading Al Jefferson... I want in. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Robillion · 06-23-2010, 06:36 PM

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67397/20100623/wolves_determined_to_trade_jefferson/#

Soo.. in reply to that, here is my dream summer.

Jason Terry (or Caron) and JJB for Al Jefferson

Damp+Caron (or Marion, or RoddyB) for Joe Johnson, D Wade, or LJames

Kidd/RoddyB
DWade or Joe Johnson/RoddyB
Marion or Caron or Lebron
Dirk
Al Jefferson

If the season starts with at least 6 of those players..Im happy. Get rid of JJB and Terry preferably. Use Dust chip and whoever else we absolutely have to give up in return for a star wing. Hopefully keep RoddyB.

Dream lineup being-
Kidd/Roddy
Wade/Roddy
Caron/Marion
Dirk/Al/Marion
Al/Haywood/Damp

grndmstr_c · 06-23-2010, 06:48 PM

I continue to be monumentally uninspired by the prospect of Jefferson on the Mavs.

sefant77 · 06-23-2010, 07:03 PM

Wolves considering it because it didnt work well with him and Love together on the court.

Now think...

Of course i take him for trash like Terry and JJB, but i highly doubt thats enough.

Kidd Karma · 06-23-2010, 07:07 PM

It's a salary dump. Zach Randolph has one year left on his deal, and Minny probably would have waived him before training camp. It's going to take expirings to get him here.....I wouldn't give up the DUST chip for Jefferson.

Dirkenstien · 06-23-2010, 07:56 PM

I also wouldn't utilize resources to go out and chase Jefferson. Maybe this at least means we have a new worst case scenario for the DUST chip if nothing else pans out. I just don't know how he fits into the roster.

Edit: Latest reports indicate Minny wanted picks back from Memphis as well. The discussions between the two appear to be dead for now.

quietsavant · 06-23-2010, 08:05 PM

Big Al's numbers are just straight out of this world. Paired with Dirk would be a top 5 frontcourt in the league. Only question resides on his ability to stay healthy

Thespiralgoeson · 06-23-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I continue to be monumentally uninspired by the prospect of Jefferson on the Mavs.

Agreed.

Robillion · 06-23-2010, 10:20 PM

Yall are crazy. Our biggest need has been a offensive post player and Al Jefferson is the best offensive post player in the league...
If we could get him for the Dust chip Id be all over it, because realistically that is more likely to happen than getting one of the other stars I mentioned. Of course Id rather have one of them, but I would definitely be pursuing Al as well.

Dirkenstien · 06-23-2010, 11:32 PM

You know, the more I think about it the more I warm up to the idea of Jefferson.

I know his defense may not be that great, but when healthy his low post offense is amazing and the thought of fielding the best offensive front court in the league with Jefferson / Dirk is tempting. Let's face it, Dirk has never had a guy like that to take the pressure off of him and create space. Not to mention he's only just turned 26 and is signed through the 12-13 season so we could have a nice foundation in Roddy / Jefferson to keep the Mavs going even once Dirk begins to decline in a couple years.

Minny seems almost desperate to move him for some cap relief (could be because Rudy Gay is about to demand a large contract). Dampier offers instant expiring so we probably wouldn't have to include any picks like what they wanted from Memphis.

We would still have some nice pieces to move around in potential trading scenarios as well with the expirings of Butler, Stevenson, Najera and JJB. Follow this up with a deal centered around Butler and Iggy (27 years old), and we all of a sudden have a nice young talented nucleus.

Jeff / Haywood
Dirk / Jefferson
Marion / Najera
Iggy / Terry
Kidd / Roddy / JJB

Then use the MLE to go out and get another SG or SF to build additional depth and you start to have a nice looking young roster. If the Roddy / Iggy / Marion perimeter defense did what they have the potential to do then that would go a long way to helping Jefferson / Dirk on defense and you still have Haywood for those times of need.

grndmstr_c · 06-24-2010, 12:08 AM

The idea of a low post scorer always sounds great, but it only really works to facilitate a successful offense if the scorer in question is efficient (Jefferson is unremarkable, and even a bit substandard relative to his low-post peers in that respect), and capable of making teams pay for doubling him with good passing (same story). To his credit, he takes care of the ball as well as or better than any other low post threat in the league, and that means his overall offensive impact is probably better than what his ts% and assists/game stats show by themselves, but in my mind it's far from a foregone conclusion that he'd make as big a difference in the Dallas offense as some people seem to think he would.

When all is said and done, if Dallas' loftiest plans for their trade assets don't pan out and Jefferson can be had for little more than cap relief I think the Mavs would have to pull the trigger, but I can't imagine that's at the top of their list.

Edit: Just to add one caveat, if you think having Jefferson on the roster in place of Damp at the start of the free agent period gives you your very best chance at luring LeBron/Wade to Dallas, and if you feel confident that a S&T package centered around Butler will be sufficient to get Cleveland/Miami to deal, then you pull the trigger and go to sleep smiling.

Dirkadirkastan · 06-24-2010, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robillion

Our biggest need has been a offensive post player and Al Jefferson is the best offensive post player in the league...

False and false.

jthig32 · 06-24-2010, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The idea of a low post scorer always sounds great, but it only really works to facilitate a successful offense if the scorer in question is efficient (Jefferson is unremarkable, and even a bit substandard relative to his low-post peers in that respect), and capable of making teams pay for doubling him with good passing (same story). To his credit, he takes care of the ball as well as or better than any other low post threat in the league, and that means his overall offensive impact is probably better than what his ts% and assists/game stats show by themselves, but in my mind it's far from a foregone conclusion that he'd make as big a difference in the Dallas offense as some people seem to think he would.

People pining over "post scoring" without taking into account efficiency is quite possibly my biggest pet peeve when it comes to discussion on this board. It's so tiresome to hear people continually talk about post scoring as if scoring from within eight feet is some sort of magic elixir and no other considerations should be made.

Dirkenstien · 06-24-2010, 09:22 AM

I completely understand Jthg, but honestly, the thought of having a legitimate 25-30 point threat playing beside Dirk night in and night out is tempting. This guy was nearly untouchable just a year ago. He just averaged 17 ppg, 9.3 rpg and had a 19.9 efficiency rating ... in an off year. In 08-09 he averaged 23 and 11, and in 07-08, over all 82 games he averaged 21 and 11.

SMC0007 · 06-24-2010, 09:57 AM

I would bet his efficiency would go up if anything being on a much better team here with various options on the double team alone. He would get better looks having more weapons on the floor with him.

Maybe defense is the question but lets not some of us pretend that post/paint scoring doesn't play a huge factor in the game. It's something we have really never had, not with Dirk.

Mav Addict · 06-24-2010, 10:04 AM

A frontcourt of Al Jeff, Dirk, and Marion just sounds exploitable.

Now if we could get him without giving up the Dust and Roddy, which means we would have to give up Caron+...I would at least think about it.

grndmstr_c · 06-24-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

... but lets not some of us pretend that post/paint scoring doesn't play a huge factor in the game...

Proposition 1: Antoine Walker generates a lot of points from the three point line
Proposition 2: Let's not some of us pretend that three-point scoring doesn't play a huge factor in the game
Conclusion: We should trade for Antoine Walker!?!

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-24-2010, 11:29 AM

Jefferson is a solid plan B. IF Lebron, Wade, Bosh, JJ all go off the table, then I'd be fine with Jefferson. I don't think low post scoring is the most important thing, but the Mavs have basically 0 of it right now.

SMC0007 · 06-24-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Proposition 1: Antoine Walker generates a lot of points from the three point line
Proposition 2: Let's not some of us pretend that three-point scoring doesn't play a huge factor in the game
Conclusion: We should trade for Antoine Walker!?!

ugh don't do that.

well wait... Is Antoine Walker available? If so Hell yea, we could use that guy!! After all he did beat us in the finals so he could bring that savvy veteran experience and leadership.

Dirkenstien · 06-24-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Jefferson is a solid plan B. IF Lebron, Wade, Bosh, JJ all go off the table, then I'd be fine with Jefferson. I don't think low post scoring is the most important thing, but the Mavs have basically 0 of it right now.

I'm on board with this thinking. It's a risk because you'd assume if Minny is desperately trying to unload him they'll probably want to get something done as soon as possible, preferably during the draft once they have an idea of who they'll be selecting. In that case waiting could come back to bite us if things don't pan out with the plan A options. I think it's a risk worth taking, though, especially now that Paul "could" be in the category as well and considering there's no telling how desperate Cleveland will become to get at least something back once they know Lebron is for sure going to leave.

wilmtalk · 06-24-2010, 03:25 PM

Why is minny so eager to unload him? granted his stats look really inviting. But I think there might be some unknown negative at play here that would explain their wanting to get rid of him. Perhaps a chemistry issue. Wouldn't that follow him here?

We shouldn't give up a defensive presence for more offense at the post position. Dirk is not a super post defender. We have Dirks offense we need a defensive presence in the middle. Damp's offensive has been so bad that a slightly better than average center would be a major improvement. If I had the choice of an average offensive presence combined with a good defender or a bad defender with a great offense I would chose the better defender because it fits our needs better.
Dirk drawing the double teams will make an average offensive post that much better.

Dirkenstien · 06-24-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Why is minny so eager to unload him? granted his stats look really inviting. But I think there might be some unknown negative at play here that would explain their wanting to get rid of him. Perhaps a chemistry issue. Wouldn't that follow him here?

We shouldn't give up a defensive presence for more offense at the post position. Dirk is not a super post defender. We have Dirks offense we need a defensive presence in the middle. Damp's offensive has been so bad that a slightly better than average center would be a major improvement. If I had the choice of an average offensive presence combined with a good defender or a bad defender with a great offense I would chose the better defender because it fits our needs better.
Dirk drawing the double teams will make an average offensive post that much better.

From what I've been reading there is some concern over his knee. Minny fans have been saying he was still playing a step slow last season but almost collectively don't want to see him traded.

Kidd Karma · 06-24-2010, 04:08 PM

Michael Redd, tore his ACL....tore it again.....Danny Manning same thing.....I'd stay away, unless Terry's going the other way.

SMC0007 · 06-24-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Why is minny so eager to unload him? granted his stats look really inviting. But I think there might be some unknown negative at play here that would explain their wanting to get rid of him. Perhaps a chemistry issue. Wouldn't that follow him here?

We shouldn't give up a defensive presence for more offense at the post position. Dirk is not a super post defender. We have Dirks offense we need a defensive presence in the middle. Damp's offensive has been so bad that a slightly better than average center would be a major improvement. If I had the choice of an average offensive presence combined with a good defender or a bad defender with a great offense I would chose the better defender because it fits our needs better.
Dirk drawing the double teams will make an average offensive post that much better.

Dirks not a super post scorer either. Thats why we're kind of an odd build as a team.

xrobx · 06-24-2010, 09:26 PM

al jefferson is one of the most injury prone players out there

SMC0007 · 06-25-2010, 12:37 AM

Al Jefferson? Whoa wait a minute. I thought we were talking about George Jefferson. Fock.

sike · 06-25-2010, 07:52 AM

The thing about an Al Jefferson for Dust Chip swap is that it seems realistic...Wade, James, JJ, and Bosh do not. Do whatever you can to get those guys...and I want to resign Haywood.

But honestly, I'm tired of having to cheer for Terry and Dampier...Carlisle just can't help himself and it hurt our team last season. I just want them and there incredible one dimensional games off my team...or at least NOT getting starters minutes.

So if All Jefferson is out there and those other guys are not...and no tempting trades makes themselves available...I would be happy to roll the dice on Jefferson.

Underdog · 06-25-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Al Jefferson? Whoa wait a minute. I thought we were talking about George Jefferson. Fock.

I just thought about it - if George Jefferson was a basketball player, he'd probably be another Avery Johnson...

No thanks.

SMC0007 · 06-25-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

The thing about an Al Jefferson for Dust Chip swap is that it seems realistic...Wade, James, JJ, and Bosh do not. Do whatever you can to get those guys...and I want to resign Haywood.

But honestly, I'm tired of having to cheer for Terry and Dampier...Carlisle just can't help himself and it hurt our team last season. I just want them and there incredible one dimensional games off my team...or at least NOT getting starters minutes.

So if All Jefferson is out there and those other guys are not...and no tempting trades makes themselves available...I would be happy to roll the dice on Jefferson.

Don't mention the word realistic around here. Keep that on the DL.

41mvp · 06-25-2010, 10:28 AM

Jason Terry, Caroll and Barea for Al Jefferson.It's good biznes Dallas would get good F-C player.

quietsavant · 06-25-2010, 05:56 PM

A guy that we should keep our eyes on that is very available for anything of a shorter contract is : Andris Biedrins. He may not be the force Al Jefferson is down low, but he could be just an attractive of a center that provides blocks, rebounds and certainly can score

Underdog · 06-25-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

A guy that we should keep our eyes on that is very available for anything of a shorter contract is : Andris Biedrins. He may not be the force Al Jefferson is down low, but he could be just an attractive of a center that provides blocks, rebounds and certainly can score

He's on my list of big guys, somewhere between Al Jefferson and Marcin Gortat...

I'd still love to go after someone like Kaman, but Biedrins could hold it down at the 5 if/when Haywood leaves...

quietsavant · 06-25-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He's on my list of big guys, somewhere between Al Jefferson and Marcin Gortat...

I'd still love to go after someone like Kaman, but Biedrins could hold it down at the 5 if/when Haywood leaves...

It took me a while to come around, but the more I've thought about it, he could be had with the dust chip intact and that's Huge for us! I personally would be excited about a Joe Johnson/Biedrins acquisition for us this summer. Solid 2 and solid 5. Plus growth of beaubois is a plus, thats where I set the bar, anything over that is sweet icing on that cake baby.

Kidd Karma · 06-25-2010, 06:29 PM

Biedrins-Jefferson, if the only assets we're giving up are Terry, Carroll, Barea, a 2nd and 3 million, do it.

Underdog · 06-25-2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

It took me a while to come around, but the more I've thought about it, he could be had with the dust chip intact and that's Huge for us! I personally would be excited about a Joe Johnson/Biedrins acquisition for us this summer. Solid 2 and solid 5. Plus growth of beaubois is a plus, thats where I set the bar, anything over that is sweet icing on that cake baby.

That would be solid, depending on the price...

Underdog · 06-25-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Biedrins-Jefferson, if the only assets we're giving up are Terry, Carroll, Barea, a 2nd and 3 million, do it.

Biedrins for Terry/Carroll/Barea/picks/cash and Joe Johnson for DUST would be a damn good summer:

Kidd/Roddy/DoJo
JJ/Butler/DoJo
Butler/Matrix
Dirk/Matrix/Najera
Biedrins/Damp (or Shaq?)

Extremely flexible, a little more realistic than LeBron - might have to give up more for Joe Johnson (DoJo?), but we'd still have the MLE to work with...

EDIT: my only concern with Biedrins is his health... Plus, someone like Kaman is only $2.3mil more this season and has 2 years less left on his contract...

quietsavant · 06-25-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Biedrins for Terry/Carroll/Barea/picks/cash and Joe Johnson for DUST would be a damn good summer:

Kidd/Roddy/DoJo
JJ/Butler/DoJo
Butler/Matrix
Dirk/Matrix/Najera
Biedrins/Damp (or Shaq?)

Extremely flexible, a little more realistic than LeBron - might have to give up more for Joe Johnson (DoJo?), but we'd still have the MLE to work with...

EDIT: my only concern with Biedrins is his health... Plus, someone like Kaman is only $2.3mil more this season and has 2 years less left on his contract...

but will the clips make Kaman available?