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Old 11-15-2004, 02:05 PM   #41
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Sike...you also have to taken into account shooting efficiency.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:07 PM   #42
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

do I....I thought it was my list? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:11 PM   #43
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Dirk is shooting 51.8% and KG is 50.5%.... with Dirk shooting an outrageous 52% behind the line, while KG has not attempted a three. Dirk is obviously the better shooter...no one will argue that.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:21 PM   #44
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: sike
Dirk is shooting 51.8% and KG is 50.5%.... with Dirk shooting an outrageous 52% behind the line, while KG has not attempted a three. Dirk is obviously the better shooter...no one will argue that.
...not necessarily with KG..but with TD. TD's money with his 2pt%, but he struggles from the line which hurts.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:48 PM   #45
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

well, at this point, TD has a lower fg% than either Dirk or KG.
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Old 11-15-2004, 03:03 PM   #46
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Can you believe RAY FREAKING ALLEN was named player of the week over Dirk?!? I thought if anyone was to get it over Dirk, it would have to be KG. Kobe and Odom were somehow in contention for Western Conference player of the week.
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Old 11-15-2004, 03:12 PM   #47
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

once again it is proven that sins do occur
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Old 11-15-2004, 03:21 PM   #48
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Did anyone see that Seattle/Memphis game? It was spectacular.

and while Dirk had a stronger showing, the award is chosen by people with very poor memory.
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Old 11-15-2004, 04:08 PM   #49
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Ray Allen did have a pretty damn good week, I am happy for him. He needs this award a lot more than Dirk does, just for his confidence.
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Old 11-15-2004, 04:17 PM   #50
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

I'm sure there were other players who were more needy than Ray Allen (Showbe comes first to mind!).
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Old 11-15-2004, 05:20 PM   #51
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: The Miles
Ray Allen did have a pretty damn good week, I am happy for him. He needs this award a lot more than Dirk does, just for his confidence.
screw his confidence! Dirk was most deserving.
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Old 11-15-2004, 05:23 PM   #52
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

I really would put Dirk up there with TD and KG. If anyone watches the mavs, they can see how much of a beat Dirk is. He is almost impossible to guard. He can just turn around and nail fade away threes all game. Plus he has a lot more dimensions to his game. TD is incredibly boring to watch, and even though he gets it done, I think dirk is better. KG is Dirks biggest rival for MVP status.


Kobe isn't up there at all. He is a major ballhog who can take horrible horrible shots, and he's an idiot off court.
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Old 11-15-2004, 06:21 PM   #53
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Wonder who the idiot or idiots were who chose Ray Allen over Dirk. Allen did have a good week, however Dirk's week was much better.
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:02 PM   #54
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: kyptonite
I really would put Dirk up there with TD and KG. If anyone watches the mavs, they can see how much of a beat Dirk is. He is almost impossible to guard. He can just turn around and nail fade away threes all game. Plus he has a lot more dimensions to his game. TD is incredibly boring to watch, and even though he gets it done, I think dirk is better. KG is Dirks biggest rival for MVP status.


Kobe isn't up there at all. He is a major ballhog who can take horrible horrible shots, and he's an idiot off court.
Since Dirk has no MVPs to his name, I'd say he might be a rival to TD or KG at this point in the season, and if he continues to put up these numbers for 82 games (and has some playoff success --- no first round outs for MVP, even if it is technically only for the regular season), I think he'll certainly finish in the top 3 in voting.

That said, regardless of Duncan's offensive stats, it's a hard claim to make that Dirk is a better player than Duncan. Comparing his defense to Duncan's is laughable at best, and Duncan's free throw struggles don't make up that gap. I'd say about the same thing for KG, but KG isn't the consistent offensive force that Duncan is, year in and year out.

I agree for the most part with the Kobe take.
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Old 11-16-2004, 12:35 AM   #55
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Interesting question...

There's no doubt that Dirk can score with the best of them. And though it's important, offensive firepower is not the complete game. He can handle the ball extremely well for a 7' player. It'd be nice to see him develop the all-court sense and passing ability like Bird had. Man, that would really be something!

But I tend to agree with 4cwebb. Until Dirk can consistently make opposing players take bad shots or force them into making bad passes (or even pass up shots), and then come up with that key block or steal with the game on the line, you just can't put him up against KG or TD. Until he takes his game to that next level, he'll probably never be seriously considered among the best in the league. In fact, Duncan's inexplicable mediocrity at the foul line (59% so far this year -- it costs him 2 points a game) is the only thing that keeps he and Garnett neck and neck. If Duncan were a 75% FT shooter, I believe Garnett would still be looking for his first MVP.
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Old 11-16-2004, 12:39 AM   #56
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: LRB
Wonder who the idiot or idiots were who chose Ray Allen over Dirk. Allen did have a good week, however Dirk's week was much better.
Not when you consider team success.

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Old 11-16-2004, 11:27 AM   #57
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
There's no doubt that Dirk can score with the best of them. And though it's important, offensive firepower is not the complete game. He can handle the ball extremely well for a 7' player. It'd be nice to see him develop the all-court sense and passing ability like Bird had. Man, that would really be something!

But I tend to agree with 4cwebb. Until Dirk can consistently make opposing players take bad shots or force them into making bad passes (or even pass up shots), and then come up with that key block or steal with the game on the line, you just can't put him up against KG or TD. Until he takes his game to that next level, he'll probably never be seriously considered among the best in the league. In fact, Duncan's inexplicable mediocrity at the foul line (59% so far this year -- it costs him 2 points a game) is the only thing that keeps he and Garnett neck and neck. If Duncan were a 75% FT shooter, I believe Garnett would still be looking for his first MVP.
A couple things need to be said here. One is that the way Dirk is playing offense right now would be enough to overcome a sizeable advantage for any MVP competitors on the other side of the ball. He's averaging just over 1.28 points per scoring attempt, as compared to 1.07 for KG, and 1.045 for TD. Granted, that spread may or may not hold up, but that's still just a massive divide when you're talking about all-nba caliber players. Second, Dirk actually has quite a knack for making the game-breaking defensive play. He's not as consistently good on defense as TD or KG, not as versatile as KG, and not as good a post-defender as TD (who is IMO tops in the league in that respect), but it's hard to knock him too much when the Mavs' team defense with Dirk on the floor is holding opponents to ~100 points per 100 posessions, a figure that is identical to the number for the Spurs when Duncan is on the floor this year, and superior to the 104.6 pp100 the Wolves are allowing with Garnett on the floor. None of that is to say that I think Dirk is the best player in the league, because I don't think he's earned that distinction, but I do think it's fair to say that there's not a player in the league who's playing better than him so far this year.
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:51 AM   #58
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Quote:
There's no doubt that Dirk can score with the best of them. And though it's important, offensive firepower is not the complete game. He can handle the ball extremely well for a 7' player. It'd be nice to see him develop the all-court sense and passing ability like Bird had. Man, that would really be something!

But I tend to agree with 4cwebb. Until Dirk can consistently make opposing players take bad shots or force them into making bad passes (or even pass up shots), and then come up with that key block or steal with the game on the line, you just can't put him up against KG or TD. Until he takes his game to that next level, he'll probably never be seriously considered among the best in the league. In fact, Duncan's inexplicable mediocrity at the foul line (59% so far this year -- it costs him 2 points a game) is the only thing that keeps he and Garnett neck and neck. If Duncan were a 75% FT shooter, I believe Garnett would still be looking for his first MVP.
A couple things need to be said here. One is that the way Dirk is playing offense right now would be enough to overcome a sizeable advantage for any MVP competitors on the other side of the ball. He's averaging just over 1.28 points per scoring attempt, as compared to 1.07 for KG, and 1.045 for TD. Granted, that spread may or may not hold up, but that's still just a massive divide when you're talking about all-nba caliber players. Second, Dirk actually has quite a knack for making the game-breaking defensive play. He's not as consistently good on defense as TD or KG, not as versatile as KG, and not as good a post-defender as TD (who is IMO tops in the league in that respect), but it's hard to knock him too much when the Mavs' team defense with Dirk on the floor is holding opponents to ~100 points per 100 posessions, a figure that is identical to the number for the Spurs when Duncan is on the floor this year, and superior to the 104.6 pp100 the Wolves are allowing with Garnett on the floor. None of that is to say that I think Dirk is the best player in the league, because I don't think he's earned that distinction, but I do think it's fair to say that there's not a player in the league who's playing better than him so far this year.
Thanks for the research, gmc. Just validates my view that Dirk's the MVP so far. He's easily the best player on the best team and then of course, your numbers just show that he's also statistically the best player in the league so far.
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Old 11-16-2004, 01:06 PM   #59
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: V2M
Quote:
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Quote:
There's no doubt that Dirk can score with the best of them. And though it's important, offensive firepower is not the complete game. He can handle the ball extremely well for a 7' player. It'd be nice to see him develop the all-court sense and passing ability like Bird had. Man, that would really be something!

But I tend to agree with 4cwebb. Until Dirk can consistently make opposing players take bad shots or force them into making bad passes (or even pass up shots), and then come up with that key block or steal with the game on the line, you just can't put him up against KG or TD. Until he takes his game to that next level, he'll probably never be seriously considered among the best in the league. In fact, Duncan's inexplicable mediocrity at the foul line (59% so far this year -- it costs him 2 points a game) is the only thing that keeps he and Garnett neck and neck. If Duncan were a 75% FT shooter, I believe Garnett would still be looking for his first MVP.
A couple things need to be said here. One is that the way Dirk is playing offense right now would be enough to overcome a sizeable advantage for any MVP competitors on the other side of the ball. He's averaging just over 1.28 points per scoring attempt, as compared to 1.07 for KG, and 1.045 for TD. Granted, that spread may or may not hold up, but that's still just a massive divide when you're talking about all-nba caliber players. Second, Dirk actually has quite a knack for making the game-breaking defensive play. He's not as consistently good on defense as TD or KG, not as versatile as KG, and not as good a post-defender as TD (who is IMO tops in the league in that respect), but it's hard to knock him too much when the Mavs' team defense with Dirk on the floor is holding opponents to ~100 points per 100 posessions, a figure that is identical to the number for the Spurs when Duncan is on the floor this year, and superior to the 104.6 pp100 the Wolves are allowing with Garnett on the floor. None of that is to say that I think Dirk is the best player in the league, because I don't think he's earned that distinction, but I do think it's fair to say that there's not a player in the league who's playing better than him so far this year.
Thanks for the research, gmc. Just validates my view that Dirk's the MVP so far. He's easily the best player on the best team and then of course, your numbers just show that he's also statistically the best player in the league so far.


best player on best team? the season is not even a month old yet so don't you think it is a bit early to start calling any team the best team yet?
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Old 11-16-2004, 01:08 PM   #60
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: dirno2000
Quote:
Originally posted by: LRB
Wonder who the idiot or idiots were who chose Ray Allen over Dirk. Allen did have a good week, however Dirk's week was much better.
Not when you consider team success.
Both teams won 4 games during that week and the Mavs have the overall better record. The only real negative is that the Mavs played one game more than Seattle and lost it. IMO that isn't near enough to elevate Allen over Dirk.
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Old 11-16-2004, 03:29 PM   #61
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: razap
Quote:
Originally posted by: V2M
Quote:
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Quote:
There's no doubt that Dirk can score with the best of them. And though it's important, offensive firepower is not the complete game. He can handle the ball extremely well for a 7' player. It'd be nice to see him develop the all-court sense and passing ability like Bird had. Man, that would really be something!

But I tend to agree with 4cwebb. Until Dirk can consistently make opposing players take bad shots or force them into making bad passes (or even pass up shots), and then come up with that key block or steal with the game on the line, you just can't put him up against KG or TD. Until he takes his game to that next level, he'll probably never be seriously considered among the best in the league. In fact, Duncan's inexplicable mediocrity at the foul line (59% so far this year -- it costs him 2 points a game) is the only thing that keeps he and Garnett neck and neck. If Duncan were a 75% FT shooter, I believe Garnett would still be looking for his first MVP.
A couple things need to be said here. One is that the way Dirk is playing offense right now would be enough to overcome a sizeable advantage for any MVP competitors on the other side of the ball. He's averaging just over 1.28 points per scoring attempt, as compared to 1.07 for KG, and 1.045 for TD. Granted, that spread may or may not hold up, but that's still just a massive divide when you're talking about all-nba caliber players. Second, Dirk actually has quite a knack for making the game-breaking defensive play. He's not as consistently good on defense as TD or KG, not as versatile as KG, and not as good a post-defender as TD (who is IMO tops in the league in that respect), but it's hard to knock him too much when the Mavs' team defense with Dirk on the floor is holding opponents to ~100 points per 100 posessions, a figure that is identical to the number for the Spurs when Duncan is on the floor this year, and superior to the 104.6 pp100 the Wolves are allowing with Garnett on the floor. None of that is to say that I think Dirk is the best player in the league, because I don't think he's earned that distinction, but I do think it's fair to say that there's not a player in the league who's playing better than him so far this year.
Thanks for the research, gmc. Just validates my view that Dirk's the MVP so far. He's easily the best player on the best team and then of course, your numbers just show that he's also statistically the best player in the league so far.


best player on best team? the season is not even a month old yet so don't you think it is a bit early to start calling any team the best team yet?
Razap, I've ended both the sentences with a "so far".
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:31 AM   #62
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
A couple things need to be said here. One is that the way Dirk is playing offense right now would be enough to overcome a sizeable advantage for any MVP competitors on the other side of the ball. He's averaging just over 1.28 points per scoring attempt, as compared to 1.07 for KG, and 1.045 for TD. Granted, that spread may or may not hold up, but that's still just a massive divide when you're talking about all-nba caliber players. Second, Dirk actually has quite a knack for making the game-breaking defensive play. He's not as consistently good on defense as TD or KG, not as versatile as KG, and not as good a post-defender as TD (who is IMO tops in the league in that respect), but it's hard to knock him too much when the Mavs' team defense with Dirk on the floor is holding opponents to ~100 points per 100 posessions, a figure that is identical to the number for the Spurs when Duncan is on the floor this year, and superior to the 104.6 pp100 the Wolves are allowing with Garnett on the floor. None of that is to say that I think Dirk is the best player in the league, because I don't think he's earned that distinction, but I do think it's fair to say that there's not a player in the league who's playing better than him so far this year.
All excellent points here. But I'm not completely sold. Are Dirks numbers a result of him elevating his game to a new high, or are they artificially inflated due to the easy schedule the Mavs have had so far? I guess time will bear this out. And I also don't think we've seen the Spurs' defense hit it's stride yet this year either. Duncan's numbers may not be quite as monstrous this year as in years past, since he's getting much more help from his teammates. But MVP awards are often given to the best player on the best team (or one of them) so I'm sure all these guys will have a legit shot. And don't forget Shaq, who when healthy can make any team a contender.

Oh well, in 3-4 more years it's probably gonna be LeBron's anyway...
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:51 AM   #63
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Not tonight.
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:34 AM   #64
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

[quote]
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Quote:
A couple things need to be said here. One is that the way Dirk is playing offense right now would be enough to overcome a sizeable advantage for any MVP competitors on the other side of the ball. He's averaging just over 1.28 points per scoring attempt, as compared to 1.07 for KG, and 1.045 for TD. Granted, that spread may or may not hold up, but that's still just a massive divide when you're talking about all-nba caliber players. Second, Dirk actually has quite a knack for making the game-breaking defensive play. He's not as consistently good on defense as TD or KG, not as versatile as KG, and not as good a post-defender as TD (who is IMO tops in the league in that respect), but it's hard to knock him too much when the Mavs' team defense with Dirk on the floor is holding opponents to ~100 points per 100 posessions, a figure that is identical to the number for the Spurs when Duncan is on the floor this year, and superior to the 104.6 pp100 the Wolves are allowing with Garnett on the floor. None of that is to say that I think Dirk is the best player in the league, because I don't think he's earned that distinction, but I do think it's fair to say that there's not a player in the league who's playing better than him so far this year.
I don't know anyone with a vote for the NBA MVP, so I admittedly know nothing of the process the voters go through to determine the MVP, but it would seem to me that neither of these stats pushes Dirk above TD or KG. And, I see little correlation between Dirk's individual post defense and the second stat.

Still, there are a few guys playing very well right now in the NBA, each playing at a level above the competition, and Dirk is clearly in that category (with KG, Lebron, and Duncan as the others).

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Old 11-17-2004, 10:58 AM   #65
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
I don't know anyone with a vote for the NBA MVP, so I admittedly know nothing of the process the voters go through to determine the MVP, but it would seem to me that neither of these stats pushes Dirk above TD or KG. And, I see little correlation between Dirk's individual post defense and the second stat.
I never said I considered Dirk above TD or KG. I said I didn't see that either had been playing above Dirk thus far. As for the defense bit, the point is simple. If Dirk's defense is really lagging that far behind the guys he'd have to compete with to win an mvp, then the effect of his mediocre defensive play should be evident in his team's defensive prowess with him on the floor. As of the time that I quoted those stats, it clearly wasn't.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:14 PM   #66
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Very disappointing night last night, and one of the reasons Dirk can't touch Duncan right now. Can you even imagine Marion being able to guard Duncan?
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:21 PM   #67
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: bernardos70
Very disappointing night last night, and one of the reasons Dirk can't touch Duncan right now. Can you even imagine Marion being able to guard Duncan?
Wow. You never I never thought of it like that but that's a great point. I've noticed that Dirk can torch any player in the league but a certain handful of guys give him trouble notably Turkoglu, Cliff Robinson and I guess I should add Marion to that mix. That's something definately Dirk has to overcome.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:26 PM   #68
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

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Originally posted by: bernardos70
Very disappointing night last night, and one of the reasons Dirk can't touch Duncan right now. Can you even imagine Marion being able to guard Duncan?
Can you imagine Najera guarding Dirk? No, of course not. Well, Najera has frustrated Duncan at times. Does that mean that Duncan can't touch Dirk because one particular player is more effective guarding him than they are at guarding Dirk? No, of course not. Isn't it also possible that it just wasn't Dirk's night?...that perhaps if it were this past Sunday with Dirk being on that Marion would have had less of an impact?

It's one game.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:32 PM   #69
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Quote:
I never said I considered Dirk above TD or KG. I said I didn't see that either had been playing above Dirk thus far. As for the defense bit, the point is simple. If Dirk's defense is really lagging that far behind the guys he'd have to compete with to win an mvp, then the effect of his mediocre defensive play should be evident in his team's defensive prowess with him on the floor. As of the time that I quoted those stats, it clearly wasn't.
True that you did not state that those statistics pushed Dirk ahead of Duncan or KG, but you did state that you think they help make up any gap. I'm still uncertain how the defensive stat helps Dirk's case since it's primarily team defensive stat (points per possession, right?), which if used in that manner doesn't take into account the other players on the floor. For example, if that stat were worse for Dirk last year, does that mean that he was a worse defender, or is it the result of replacing Bradley with Dampier and Nash with Harris/Terry on the defensive end? I'll admit to being generally ignorant in the use and application of statistics, so I might just not see the elephant in the room with the use of this stat.

But I will acknowledge that no one in the league is playing at an appreciably higher level than Dirk right now, even with his game against the Suns taken into account...



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Old 11-17-2004, 12:34 PM   #70
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Najera might have frustrated duncan, but not to the extent Marion has done to Dirk. Duncan can score effectively against just about any power forward and definitely against any small forward. What's missing in Dirk's game is the back-to-the-basket moves. I know those aren't the easiest, but all night long he was facing up Marion, Dirk didn't even attempt a single hook shot that looks like it's coming along. That's a move he could have used to get the shot off over Marion. But Marion contested all his jump shots and made him look pretty bad. Small Forwards give Dirk fits, and Marion being one of the best on the defensive side, definitely gave him fits.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:47 PM   #71
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

5/29/03 ring a bell? Duncan went 8-20 from the field and only made 2-4 from the line for 18 points while primarily being guarded by Walt Williams and Eddie Najera.

So yeah, anything can happen in one game.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:54 PM   #72
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

I thought dirk looked pretty pathetic last night. Throwing up bailout fallaway after bailout fallaway. I also thought the referees got into his head somewhat as he stopped trying to drive the ball, since only staudiamire seemed to be getting calls last night.

On the other hand the offense looked completely stupid in my mind. It was give it to dirk with marion facing him and that was it. Everyone else clear out. If he had determined to take it to the hoop everytime then it might have worked out that way. but good grief how about a cutter off a screen for a pass.

One of the biggest problems was that there was no one who could get the ball inside and do anything with it even if dirk did pass it to them. Quis looked especially pained and jho has been pretty atrocious. Without damp in there, it was pretty tough.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:57 PM   #73
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Last year vs Phoenix
4/3/04
Dirk
Pts 34
14-22 shooting
3-3 from the line
34 minutes
7 boards
Mavs won 124-103

3/13/04
pts 8
3-12 shooting
2-2 FT's
29 minutes
12 boards
Mavs won 113-90

3/8/04
26 points
11-13 shooting
4-4 FTA
28 minutes
6 boards
Mavs won 103-90

11/26/03
0 points
0-2 shooting
7 minutes
Dirk leaves midway through the first with his ankle injury in a 121-90 loss. Marion did not play.


So what does this prove? Anything can happen on any given day. Dirk was dominant offensively in two games, struggled in one game, and left with an injury early in the first in another.

Bad games happen. Last year, Dirk shot over 50% from the field versus the Suns. Yes, they slowed him down one game pretty well, but he ripped them apart in two others. Your theory about Dirk and Duncan is extremely unproven and based upon 1 game.
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:59 PM   #74
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Point taken, anything can happen in one game. However, Dirk does struggle while being guarded by small forwards. This is not a one-game thing IMO. Remember Nellie's comments on how Dirk last year was being guarded by small forwards and how they were really disrupting his game?

EDIT: Murphy, did Marion guard Dirk last year in those games? Didn't Stoudemire guard him, being the Suns had a few spares actually filling in for a center? Just asking, I don't recall those games. I hope he was and I hope you're right, but I'm not so sure.
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Old 11-17-2004, 01:05 PM   #75
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Come on, everyone's entitled to a bad game or two. Even Shaq or MJ at their peak would have had a game or two that they'd like to take back. And everyone's gonna' have trouble scoring against certain players. Didn't we just see a 6'7" PF who can't jump bother Duncan as hell a few games ago (Danny Fortson in Seattle for the uninitiated).

Marion played well and Dirk was subpar last night. But that doesn't mean Dirk won't torch him the next time they meet. If you look at Dirk's record against Phoenix last couple years, it's not bad.
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Old 11-17-2004, 01:09 PM   #76
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Quote:
Originally posted by: bernardos70
Point taken, anything can happen in one game. However, Dirk does struggle while being guarded by small forwards. This is not a one-game thing IMO. Remember Nellie's comments on how Dirk last year was being guarded by small forwards and how they were really disrupting his game?

EDIT: Murphy, did Marion guard Dirk last year in those games? Didn't Stoudemire guard him, being the Suns had a few spares actually filling in for a center? Just asking, I don't recall those games. I hope he was and I hope you're right, but I'm not so sure.
Dirk was guarded some by both.
If I remember correctly, Shaq has mentioned that he's less effective against the shorter, stalkier type players.....Dirk's sometimes less effective versus the smaller, more athletic player. Duncan's sometimes less effective when you double down on him and force him to dribble or to make a pass under pressure.
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Old 11-18-2004, 07:26 PM   #77
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Default RE: Is Dirk the best player in the league?

Most of this MVP stuff is about scoring (see MJ). 1.28 points per attempt is alot better than 1.05. NO, it's a helluva lot better.

Also, I don't see how TD, or KG especially, are such great defenders. Neither one can stop Dirk. So, if Dirk can't stop them either, then they are even. When TD won his MVPs, I agreed he deserved them. But KG? I just don't see it.

I still say, playoffs are what's most important. Rest easy. With the right supporting cast, Dirk will take us to the promised land before KG will take Minny. Dirk still has more upside. Maybe not this year, but he will be an MVP.
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Old 11-18-2004, 08:58 PM   #78
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Default RE:Is Dirk the best player in the league?

bottom line when it comes to TD and KG is that they can be stopped or slowed down

shaq is the only player that can't be stopped in the lane..however he seems to have slowed down himself because of the hammy so we don't know how dominant he is going to be without show-be..it might be a while

amare stoudemire is the only other player that is becoming unstoppable
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