New York @ Dallas Gameday Thread

[MavKikiNYC]

Artest a real man?

I sure noticed him hauling his sorry ass out of the fray and looking over his shoulder. He's lucky some fan didn't get hold of his fingers and start bending them backward, or that someone didn't take his knees out. I sure would've liked to've seen that.

He should be suspended for the rest of the season, should undergo psychiatric evaluation with medical management, and should undergo counseling and anger management courses for the rest of what will hoepfully be a short NBA career.

Stern had better act decisively and terminally in this case.

[PepperTheMavsFan41]

atleast 20 games


Steven Jax atleat 15

Big Ben 10 games.


Next time they play is on Chritmas!!!! LMAO!!!

[kg_veteran]

Back to the Mavs game, a few observations:

1. Marquis Daniels needs to learn how to throw an entry pass.

2. Don Nelson can't handle prosperity.

3. Devin Harris is going to be a stud, but it's going to take some time. He, too, needs to learn how to throw an entry pass. And do something with a pick other than shoot behind it.

4. Josh Howard looks SOOOO much better when he's aggressive and attacking rather than shooting long jump shots. He was huge tonight. Not PF huge, which is why it was unfortunate that Nellie played him at that spot at times, but still, huge.

5. Shawn Bradley is a game-changing force. The FG% differential with him in the game vs. out of the game has to be 20 percentage points tonight.

6. I'm sick of defenders roughing Dirk up and getting away with it. Instead of responding by just having Dirk catch the ball at the top of the key 25 feet out, Dallas needs to clear a side for Dirk and let him have the ball at the elbow against the guy. Then Dirk needs to drive the bastard to the goal and dunk on his ass.

7. I like Alan Henderson, and I feel really smart because I correctly predicted the Mavs starting lineup tonight, but he has no business doing anything other than backing up Dirk. I saw Calvin Booth out there tonight, and I see absolutely NO reason why he can't combine with Bradley at center in Dampier's absence. He's not flashy, but he's certainly adequate.

[Misfit Mav]

After the rap album incident and now this, I think Artest has proven that any team that features him as a key player will not go very far.

[EricaLubarsky]

Bradley was an enormous crutch tonight. His +/- must be astounding and he even threw his body out to contest that last minute three.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
On a side note, Stack...do you think you could mix in a made FT with that little time left on the clock?

lol
He made the end entirely too stressful for me. Good win though overall. I didn't read the entire thread, but did anyone else notice dirk getting fired up in the third quarter? Jerome Williams had been borderline fouling him on every play, and he just got pissed! Went bezerk on the knicks and changed the whole flow of the game the mavs way. At that point, I wasn't worried about the win, I was just worried about dirk hurting himself by trying to do too much. If I were the coach I would tell dirk to do that every game but make sure he realizes that he needs to take care of his body at the same time. A pissed off dirk is quite a sight to behold.

I'm happy for Josh tonight. I think this game could be a nice confidence boost for him - especially, regarding his jump shooting. I thought devin did a good job on defense, but I felt sorry for him having to guard crawford. That guy is virtually unguardable one on one.

[MavKikiNYC]

Those green uniforms are awful.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Those green uniforms are awful.

That's true. The color is really difficult to look at, and I have to say that if P-Diddy got paid to design them, Cuban got ripped off.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
Back to the Mavs game, a few observations:

1. Marquis Daniels needs to learn how to throw an entry pass.

Amen. But, neither could Steve Nash. It's amazing how many times the Mavs threw the ball down to Dirk to the one spot where the defender could actually make a play on it.

2. Don Nelson can't handle prosperity.

No, he can't. He's having some trouble handling personnel as well.

3. Devin Harris is going to be a stud, but it's going to take some time. He, too, needs to learn how to throw an entry pass. And do something with a pick other than shoot behind it.

I'm alarmed by how often he doesn't seem to be paying attention when a man is wide open. Dirk was practically doing jumping jacks calling for a ball when he was wide open. But, he will figure it out.

4. Josh Howard looks SOOOO much better when he's aggressive and attacking rather than shooting long jump shots. He was huge tonight. Not PF huge, which is why it was unfortunate that Nellie played him at that spot at times, but still, huge.

Exactly. Howard isn't consistent enough of a jumpshooter at this point. The guy is a monster going to the rim without the ball both slashing to the bucket and cleaning up on the o-boards. Plus he isn't half bad at taking the ball to the rim either.

5. Shawn Bradley is a game-changing force. The FG% differential with him in the game vs. out of the game has to be 20 percentage points tonight.

Amen....again. That's at least 3-4 times this year where Bradley's come in and completely changed the game with his defense.

6. I'm sick of defenders roughing Dirk up and getting away with it. Instead of responding by just having Dirk catch the ball at the top of the key 25 feet out, Dallas needs to clear a side for Dirk and let him have the ball at the elbow against the guy. Then Dirk needs to drive the bastard to the goal and dunk on his ass.

It's amazing how little respect he gets at times. He rarely gets the call when he gets blatantly shoved in the back on the defensive glass. As far as getting the ball with his back to the bucket 25 feet from the rim, I couldn't agree more. Get him the ball 15 foot from the rim and he's the most unstoppable force in the league.

7. I like Alan Henderson, and I feel really smart because I correctly predicted the Mavs starting lineup tonight, but he has no business doing anything other than backing up Dirk. I saw Calvin Booth out there tonight, and I see absolutely NO reason why he can't combine with Bradley at center in Dampier's absence. He's not flashy, but he's certainly adequate.

Ten minutes a game is all the Mavs need out of Henderson. Let him backup Dirk. But mostly, don't have them on the court at the same time because that forces Dirk to play center. There's no reason why Bradley, Booth, and Benga can't handle all of the PT until Dampier comes back.

[Bayliss]

1. Marquis Daniels needs to learn how to throw an entry pass.

No joke. Dirk had a turnover because Marquis couldn't throw him the ball in the post and Dirk had to double back and get it.

2. Don Nelson can't handle prosperity.

He just can't handle big men. If Nellie had centers on his team, he'd ask the NBA if he could have 2 men on the court at one time.

3. Devin Harris is going to be a stud, but it's going to take some time. He, too, needs to learn how to throw an entry pass. And do something with a pick other than shoot behind it.

You stole my line. But it is so true. Harris is going to have Gary Paytonesque defense. But he has got to set up others.

4. Josh Howard looks SOOOO much better when he's aggressive and attacking rather than shooting long jump shots. He was huge tonight. Not PF huge, which is why it was unfortunate that Nellie played him at that spot at times, but still, huge.

I just hate his tunnel vision.

5. Shawn Bradley is a game-changing force. The FG% differential with him in the game vs. out of the game has to be 20 percentage points tonight.

Amazing how big of a force he is around the basket. For every 1 posterization, he alters 2+ shots. The Mavs can llive with that.

6. I'm sick of defenders roughing Dirk up and getting away with it. Instead of responding by just having Dirk catch the ball at the top of the key 25 feet out, Dallas needs to clear a side for Dirk and let him have the ball at the elbow against the guy. Then Dirk needs to drive the bastard to the goal and dunk on his ass.

Nellie just doesn't get Dirk in good opportunities to score sometimes. By the way, for all Pinto's talk of the JunkYard Dog manhandlin' Dirk... it wasn't the case. At one point, Dirk grabbed an offensive board. Layed it up tough, griped at the ref on the way back down.

7. I like Alan Henderson, and I feel really smart because I correctly predicted the Mavs starting lineup tonight, but he has no business doing anything other than backing up Dirk. I saw Calvin Booth out there tonight, and I see absolutely NO reason why he can't combine with Bradley at center in Dampier's absence. He's not flashy, but he's certainly adequate.

I agree completely. Booth seserves the center minutes with Damp out. .

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

really Kiki, you think so? I thought they looked great. I prefer them over their regular jerseys.

KG regarding dirk getting roughed up, did you notice lenny wilkens' smirk on his face when jerome williams slapped at the ball and dirk's head on a foul in the fourth. Makes me realize that these coaches are telling their players to play that way. I think tonight it back fired because dirk got angry and took over in the third because of it. Good to see from dirk...

[MavKikiNYC]

6. I'm sick of defenders roughing Dirk up and getting away with it. Instead of responding by just having Dirk catch the ball at the top of the key 25 feet out, Dallas needs to clear a side for Dirk and let him have the ball at the elbow against the guy. Then Dirk needs to drive the bastard to the goal and dunk on his ass.

As to this point, the Mavs STILL don't have an enforcer to come in and patrol the court when opponents' physical play gets out of hand. I don't think Dampier has the temperment for this role.

[GP]

Originally posted by: Misfit Mav

He's a real man because he went after some fat guy in the stands who is probably a foot shorter than him? Come on.

He's about 6'7" and about 240. Most 6'7" basketball players go about 190 and are rail thin. Artest looks like all the rest of us and knows how to fight. He isn't a guy that a 5'10 beach ball should be picking on. Thats all I meant.

Edit: I am an idiot because Artest is a moron plain and simple, he's just a nutcase and not any kind of man at all. When he went into the stands he went after the smallest man of the bunch and who had a cup in his hands. He obviously wasn't the culprit. After seeing the replay, I don't think the heavy set guy on the court even tried to throw a punch. Artest just attacked him as well. Artest needs to be suspended for at least 25 games and maybe the entire season. He also needs to see a psychiatrist.

[GP]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

As to this point, the Mavs STILL don't have an enforcer to come in and patrol the court when opponents' physical play gets out of hand. I don't think Dampier has the temperment for this role.

I really like what Dampier brings to this team. I just wish that the Mavs would feed the post more and develop some sort of team concept. One on one basketball isn't going to win a championship.

[Misfit Mav]

Originally posted by: GP

He's a real man because he is about 6'7" and about 240. Most 6'7" basketball players go about 190 and are rail thin. Artest looks like all the rest of us and knows how to fight. He isn't a guy that a 5'10 beach ball should be picking on. Thats all I meant. You guys read too much into these comments.

Sorry if I misinterpreted you and you were only refering to his size. It sounded like you were saying he was "a real tough guy" for going after a fan.

[GP]

I was just posting in a hurry and not thinking about what I was saying. It is my fault for not being as clear as I should have been.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Another thing is that he's basically having to create all of his offense on his own. I'm sure that's a bit new to him and he has been turnover prone at times. In the past, he wasn't called upon toe create such a high percentage of his offense on his own like he has been this year.

The Mavs are basically playing without a PG on offense until Harris figures out what he's doing. Offensively, Dirk is more of a point at this point in time in the half court set than Harris.

It's kindof hard to set Dirk up with a shot when he's the one with the ball in his hands at all times and when Dirk gets the ball I don't know why but this team just sits and looks at him. At times Josh will move once Dirk shoots the ball but that's about it. That's why you see more of a flow when Dirk leaves the game. This team has got to learn to stop watching Dirk when he gets the ball.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

KG said :
7. I like Alan Henderson, and I feel really smart because I correctly predicted the Mavs starting lineup tonight, but he has no business doing anything other than backing up Dirk. I saw Calvin Booth out there tonight, and I see absolutely NO reason why he can't combine with Bradley at center in Dampier's absence. He's not flashy, but he's certainly adequate.

KG, I agree with this for the most part. but I think Henderson can play along side dirk if there are matchups that allow for it, but if not, he should remain as a back up. But if Nellie can't evaluate the people on the court, I have no problem with Cuban stepping in and telling Nellie that Henderson is ONLY a backup to dirk.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

It's kindof hard to set Dirk up with a shot when he's the one with the ball in his hands at all times and when Dirk gets the ball I don't know why but this team just sits and looks at him. At times Josh will move once Dirk shoots the ball but that's about it. That's why you see more of a flow when Dirk leaves the game. This team has got to learn to stop watching Dirk when he gets the ball.

I couldn't agree less. The reason why you're seeing less flow right now is because Terry, Finley, and Dampier are out. The offense was magnificent running through Dirk before the rash of injuries. With the injuries, the offense is going to look bad at times regardless of who's hands the ball is in. There will be times that the only time the offense looks halfway decent is when Stack or Dirk is taking his man one on one simply because so much of their firepower is sitting on the bench in street clothes.

[Dirkenstien]

I'd like to apologize for basically hijacking this thread with info about the brawl in Detroit and thanx for getting it back on track.

Good to see the mavs win tonight. JHo has a great game.

Oh yeah...I actually liked the unis

[dude1394]

Hope that artest is thrown out of the league and arrested for felony assault. Stephen Jackson as well. I heard the knuckleheads on espn talking about arresting some fans, sure not problem as long as they are willing to arrest the person actually assaulting the fans.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

As to this point, the Mavs STILL don't have an enforcer to come in and patrol the court when opponents' physical play gets out of hand. I don't think Dampier has the temperment for this role.

I thought damp had been doing a pretty good job in that role. He's certainly has been more of an intimidation factor than our previous players -- maybe because he's just been on the court more. However, the mavs could probably use another enforcer type. Perhaps, we should have taken a chance on ol' donnel harvey instead of signing dan "I'll break dirk's fingers" dickau.

[grndmstr_c]

I thought damp had been doing a pretty good job in that role. He's certainly has been more of an intimidation factor than our previous players -- maybe because he's just been on the court more. However, the mavs could probably use another enforcer type. Perhaps, we should have taken a chance on ol' donnel harvey instead of signing dan "I'll break dirk's fingers" dickau.

I'm thinking if DJ can learn the offense and to better control his foul count he could perhaps fill the roll quite nicely.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

good point, how could I forget about BENGA.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Murph said:
I couldn't agree less. The reason why you're seeing less flow right now is because Terry, Finley, and Dampier are out. The offense was magnificent running through Dirk before the rash of injuries. With the injuries, the offense is going to look bad at times regardless of who's hands the ball is in. There will be times that the only time the offense looks halfway decent is when Stack or Dirk is taking his man one on one simply because so much of their firepower is sitting on the bench in street clothes. ----


Great analysis. Terry, Finley, and Dampier couldn't come back soon enough!

[orangedays]

Originally posted by: orangedays

Thanks guys,

Oh and another note: the Knicks were essentially beaten by Houston last night, it came down to a last second prayer, and they got lucky. We don't take that kinda trash at the American Airlines Center. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Like I said, none of that trash in our house.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Originally posted by: orangedays

Like I said, none of that trash in our house.

lol, you must have been nervous that those words would come back to haunt you today...

[GP]

JLee I agree that having these excellent players on the bench makes a big difference with the offensive flow; however, I think the main problem is the scheme. They still had the superior talent on the floor tonight and they struggled. Tonights scheme was all about 1 on 1 play, while the first couple of games they used crisp passing.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

GP, I don't think I was quite clear on my earlier post. I was quoting murph, but I do think what he said is very plausible based soley on chronology of events. When everybody was healthy, the mavs were playing wonderful basketball, but now that dampier, terry, and finley are down, the mavs are having some difficulty on offense.

Regarding the schemes, it does look like they too often call for one on one basketball, and I can't say that I'm too impressed with some of the offensive schemes Nellie uses. I think Nellie's strongest suit might be exploiting matchups. I watched a little bit of a wizard's game(not involving the mavs), and I was just astounded at the level of passing by the wizards. They had so many plays designed for players to cut and get wide open layups. I wish the mavs had some of this implemented in their offense. I think the potential for this type of team is there, but I don't know if the coaching is. Really, it will probably take a while before we truly know what this team is all about, and injuries, are certainly not helping the cause.

[MavsFanFinley]

[dirno2000]

1) Those uniforms wouldn't be so bad if they only had one shade of blue. I like them from the FT camera angle (chest up) because it's just navy blue and green.

2) Dirk isn't the 1st great offensive player to get abused by his defender and he won't be the last. Imagine what it would be like if he was playing in the early 90’s. He's just going to have to adjust...actually 27 and 10 suggests the he's adjusting nicely.

Williams is a good defender so for Dirk to put up the line that he did speaks to where he is as a player.

3) I hate Stacks FT routine, even when he makes them...too many moving parts.

4) I know Devin's a rookie, but gets screwed by the refs at least once a game. I can't believe he didn't get the call on Thomas when he tried to dunk and Tim got him with the body.

5) I've been happy with the way Devin has run the pick and roll up to this point. I think what's happening is that teams realize how quick he is and how he can break down a defense. Seems that they're just going under the pick and daring him to shoot. He's going to have to start passing up some open shots and get to the hole.

6) Marquis will be fine. Considering how little he played last season, he's still in his rookie year. I see why Nellie like him so much though...the kid has a natural feel for the game.

Lastly, that was a really nice effort by the Knicks. 2nd night of a back to back after an emotional win and the last game of a road trip...everything was set up for them to come in and lay down.

[orangedays]

Originally posted by: JLEEHASMUCHGAME

lol, you must have been nervous that those words would come back to haunt you today...

Haha...absolutely not, I had complete faith in our Mavs.

Last year we lost so many of these games...it was horrendous...every game where we weren't leading by at least 10 was such a freakin' nail-biter. I hated how we could never get defensive stops and how we seemed to lose the ability to score when it got down to crunch time.

This year's ALOT better...I can't even begin to describe the relief I feel. Even when we are down, we seem to pull back easily and it's because we're picking up the intensity on the defensive end. We can stop the other team while still putting up buckets.

[dude1394]

Nelson calls out the rookie. He did look pretty clueless out there and shot the damn ball too much.

Nine brave men: The Mavericks were down to nine brave men Friday night. And it became eight for a while. And it wasn't because of an injury.

With 4:43 left in the third quarter, starting point guard Devin Harris was yanked from the game by coach Don Nelson for an unpardonable sin - allowing a baseline drive and layup by the Knicks' Stephon Marbury. And that wasn't the only error on a tough night for Harris.

"He played like a rookie," Nelson said. "He played 35 minutes too many. I'm just glad we didn't lose a game because of it."

He played 35 minutes too many... funny....

[Murphy3]

Harris was awful last night. He made so many bad decisions. Perhaps his worst decisions are the passes that he doesn't make.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

I couldn't agree less. The reason why you're seeing less flow right now is because Terry, Finley, and Dampier are out. The offense was magnificent running through Dirk before the rash of injuries. With the injuries, the offense is going to look bad at times regardless of who's hands the ball is in. There will be times that the only time the offense looks halfway decent is when Stack or Dirk is taking his man one on one simply because so much of their firepower is sitting on the bench in street clothes.

They showed some flow last night even when Dirk was on the bench. I guess they feel they have to take up some of the slack offensively once Dirk leaves. I'm not sure what it is but i've been seeing wayy to much of looking at Dirk while he has the ball instead of moving around.

[FilthyFinMavs]

I agree Dirno. If they get rid of that royal blue or whatever color that is and subsitute it for navy blue than the jerseys will be perfect. That blue on the side is so out of place.

[grndmstr_c]

Just because I don't think I got around to it last night, great game by Josh. I've been waiting for him to have one of these games. He's such a devastating matchup when he's active and plays to his strengths like that.

I really want to see Devin stop shooting all those long jumpers. He's too quick to be settling for those, and for purposes of him learning how to be a good NBA point I'd rather see him make mistakes trying to set other guys up. Playmaker-type mistakes are probably more damaging in the short term because the TO's will lead to fast-breaks for the opposition, but he's going to have to stub his toe in the passing game sooner or later, and jacking up ill-advised three pointers does absolutely nothing for his development.

And as much as the refs need to call a foul a foul when teams play Dirk physical, I have to say that if that's going to be the way teams are going to approach defending the Mavs in the big games (roughing up Dirk as much as I could get away with it would certainly be my strategy) then I hope it keeps happening in the little games as well. The more he sees it, the more it'll challenge him to learn to overcome it. His talent will shine through, and it'll make him a better player when the playoff's roll around (which is just scary considering his career playoff numbers). I mean, the guy goes for 30 and 12 on 57% shooting while getting very little respect from the refs and playing at the mercy of a rookie point with his head firmly planted in his own posterior, and in terms of the NBA's efficiency statistic last night that was simply an average game for the second ranked player in the league in that statistic.

[Bayliss]

And as much as the refs need to call a foul a foul when teams play Dirk physical, I have to say that if that's going to be the way teams are going to approach defending the Mavs in the big games (roughing up Dirk as much as I could get away with it would certainly be my strategy) then I hope it keeps happening in the little games as well. The more he sees it, the more it'll challenge him to learn to overcome it. His talent will shine through, and it'll make him a better player when the playoff's roll around (which is just scary considering his career playoff numbers). I mean, the guy goes for 30 and 12 on 57% shooting while getting very little respect from the refs and playing at the mercy of a rookie point with his head firmly planted in his own posterior, and in terms of the NBA's efficiency statistic last night that was simply an average game for the second ranked player in the league in that statistic.

And that is why I have hope he can be top 3 in the NBA in a few years.

[SeriousSummer]

I was at the game last night and I thought it was a great example of Nellie's brilliant coaching and the team's mental toughness, especially Dirk's.

Booth played 6 minutes and had no rebounds. Henderson played 12 minutes and had 1 rebound. Nellie didn't choose to let DJ have his 3 minutes to foul out.

Dallas did a great job to win with only 6 players contributing at all, and one of them (Harris) who played so poorly he would have been benched if Nellie had any alternatives.

Daniels, Stackhouse, Nowitzki and Howard all played more than 39 minutes--basically getting only minimum rest. Bradley played 25 minutes which is about the maximum his current conditioning will allow.

Basically, five guys beat the Knicks. Let me repeat, Henderson/Booth had 6 pts., 1 rebound and no blocks in a combined total of 18 minutes. Harris shot 4-14 with only 3 assists in 35 minutes (but who else to play with Terry and even Dickau out?) and played a terrible floor game.

This game was a testimount to Nellie's cleverness, Howard's and Daniel's ability, and Stackhouse's, and Dirk's will to win.

New York had more talent available (with Finley, Dampier and Terry out). Dallas didn't have a semi-capable point guard and still managed to win.

When the injured return, Harris gets some more experience, and Daniel's ankle finally heals, the Mavs are going to be really, really tough.