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Old 11-20-2012, 12:37 PM   #41
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Ah, I thought you meant "much better" in comparison to Collison, not to Dojo on the past. Yes, I would say Dojo has looked better. I don't know that I agree with "playing well more often than not", as even last night he had a really rough first half before playing well the second half.

I'm glad that Dojo is starting to look like he might belong on an NBA roster, in some capacity. But I'm not ever going to call for him to finish games or Collison. Collison is still young (he's only a year older than Dojo) and needs those experiences to learn. This isn't a title contender that should be fighting and clawing for every win. Our main goal this season is to figure out who from this temporary core can be built upon long term. Part of that process is allowing Collison to fail and see if he improves.
Well I personally agree that this isn't a title contender, but as long as Dirk is here we need to be clawing for every win to stay in the playoff picture and see what shakes out in the end. If not, why is he here?

I also agree that we need to figure out who can be build upon going forward and that failure along the way is part of the process, but I don't think the first priority is to figure out who is a staple at the cost of losses in tight games.

Get the wins you can even if you have to scratch and claw, and learn the best way to do so until our superhero comes back. If you present RC with, 'if you leave Dojo in the game we finish with a win', he takes that 10/10 times and worries about what Collison learned from it later. (Not saying that would have been the case.)
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:45 PM   #42
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Collison annoyed me last night. This is the NBA, and everyone has a bad game. If you're 6'1 and you can't hit a jumper then you should be trying to use your speed and get to the rim. Or you should be trying to get to the line. And don't even get me started with his atrocious defense on Steph Curry. Yes, Steph is a beast but Collison played him so softly it was only a matter of time before Steph got hot and lit us up. That kid has a lot of work to do, it's sad that now Dojo can come into the game and outplay him.

What I want to see from Collison is intensity. I want to see that he's giving his all out there. Work hard to create for yourself and others. Make the right passes. Attack the rim when it's there. And I want to see decisiveness from him. I hate watching him dribble for 8 seconds, get a screen, go away from the screen, and then pass the ball to another teammate. That shxt has no purpose. I know what he's capable of and so does he, so he needs to get his mind right.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:52 PM   #43
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Collison annoyed me last night. This is the NBA, and everyone has a bad game. If you're 6'1 and you can't hit a jumper then you should be trying to use your speed and get to the rim. Or you should be trying to get to the line. And don't even get me started with his atrocious defense on Steph Curry. Yes, Steph is a beast but Collison played him so softly it was only a matter of time before Steph got hot and lit us up. That kid has a lot of work to do, it's sad that now Dojo can come into the game and outplay him.

What I want to see from Collison is intensity. I want to see that he's giving his all out there. Work hard to create for yourself and others. Make the right passes. Attack the rim when it's there. And I want to see decisiveness from him. I hate watching him dribble for 8 seconds, get a screen, go away from the screen, and then pass the ball to another teammate. That shxt has no purpose. I know what he's capable of and so does he, so he needs to get his mind right.
+rep...well said
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:41 PM   #44
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Collison is a nice player but I think he's too small to be effective each night against bigger players.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:34 AM   #45
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as a small, quick player, the one thing you absolutely gotta be able to do on defense is stay in front of your man and bug the sh*t out of him. if you cant do that then youre pretty much useless on that end of the court and unfortunately thats what I've been seeing from Collison lately.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:08 AM   #46
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How about play 3 point guards. That way Collison has no excuse for not putting more effort on the defensive end. Less minutes=less fatigue.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:11 AM   #47
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Maybe Collison is in self-preservation mode lately. Early in the season he was pressuring on defense a lot, full and 3/4 court press. Hassling the opposing PG. That has dropped off way too much imo. He needs to get back to playing raw aggressive ball on both ends. Probe on offense and trust his instincts, rely on his speed and quickness. The things he may be doing to stay on the court longer by not going all out hustling on both ends, may just be what ends up taking him off the court. If he went all out (as Dojo has been lately), then Dojo and Roddy did that everytime they got on the floor, we would be much better off.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:29 AM   #48
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Yeah players that have more skill can get away with being in self-preservation mode. Collison can't be that way though. Thus why he needs to be in full effort every minutes he is on the floor. Thus, why I like the idea of 3 players hustling for 48 minutes to make up for a point guard that has more skill.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:56 PM   #49
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He is playing right now basically like the early Barea.

Stupid TO, killing the clock and bricking then badly, not delivering the ball into the sweet spots (how often you see Kaman getting hot and then not touching the ball for minutes) etc...
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:04 PM   #50
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So as long as he attacks, it seems that DC is a solid offensive pg. But the dude gets lit up night after night on the defensive end.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:10 PM   #51
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So as long as he attacks, it seems that DC is a solid offensive pg. But the dude gets lit up night after night on the defensive end.
He's a more talented, but less tenacious, JJB.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:15 PM   #52
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He's a more talented, but less tenacious, JJB.
I see the same player but JJB might be the better defender.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:19 PM   #53
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I see the same player but JJB might be the better defender.
Yeah, being scrappy definitely helps on the defensive end... Collison certainly does shy away from contact - Barea had no problem sacrificing his body.

It might not hurt DC to put on a little more muscle at his size.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:26 PM   #54
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Yeah, being scrappy definitely helps on the defensive end... Collison certainly does shy away from contact - Barea had no problem sacrificing his body.

It might not hurt DC to put on a little more muscle at his size.
His 6ft 170 which is the right size for his frame. He just has no technique and effort with regards to playing defense.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:31 PM   #55
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His 6ft 170 which is the right size for his frame. He just has no technique and effort with regards to playing defense.
Well, yeah - there's that too... I was just speaking in regards to Barea - who doesn't have stellar defensive techniques either, but is still effective due to his willingness to get physical. I just don't see Collison making a whole lot of contact on defense.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:44 PM   #56
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Well, yeah - there's that too... I was just speaking in regards to Barea - who doesn't have stellar defensive techniques either, but is still effective due to his willingness to flop. I just don't see Collison making a whole lot of contact on defense.
Fixed that for you

Also you don't necessarily have to be physical to be an effective defender. Foot work which allows you to stay in front of your man can get you far as well.

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Old 11-21-2012, 11:46 PM   #57
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Fixed that for you
Another good point... But flopping also takes a willingness to get physical.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:49 PM   #58
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Another good point... But flopping also takes a willingness to get physical.
Well flopping is a no-no now, so Collison needs to start moving his feet. He gets beat off the dribble way to easily. Most of the time w/o a screen.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:50 PM   #59
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Also you don't necessarily have to be physical to be an effective defender. Foot work which allows you to stay in front of your man can get you far as well.
True, but Collison completely shies away from contact at times - I've never seen a good defender who was afraid to get some bumps and bruises.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:09 AM   #60
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True, but Collison completely shies away from contact at times - I've never seen a good defender who was afraid to get some bumps and bruises.
Interest thing about Collison/Roddy.

Collison completely shies away from contact on defense but is quick to initiate contact when driving to the lane. Roddy completely shies away from contact on offense, yet on defense, especially when being posted up by bigger stronger players does a very good job of holding his own. Go figure. Sports is way more mental than we like to give it credit for.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:00 AM   #61
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If we are having a draft, how many teams take JJB before they take Collison?
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:18 AM   #62
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If we are having a draft, how many teams take JJB before they take Collison?
None?
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:21 AM   #63
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None?
Wrong answer!
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:46 AM   #64
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True, but Collison completely shies away from contact at times - I've never seen a good defender who was afraid to get some bumps and bruises.
Look at you crying about Collison after a couple handful games after bashing me all offseason for warning fans to not erect Collison Saviour Shrines.

lol
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:09 AM   #65
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Here is one my major gripes about Collison, and it might be by design I don't know but it kills the Mavs in the half court:

Collison gets the ball up top and dribbles in one spot for about 3 seconds. A teammate (usually Kaman or Brand) comes and sets the screen. Collison does one of two things, which both do not go anywhere. Option on, he goes with the pick but he does not atack to get inside. Once he curls around the pick he dribbles a couple of times sideways, then Kaman/Brand release and Collison backs up. Essentially wasting the pick. The other option is he abandons the pick and goes the opposite way, dribbles backward and then starts dancing with the ball for another 2 or 3 seconds.

When he uses the pick he has to go. And he should be comfortable with that mentality because in the open court he does it. Then when he goes, he can decide to try and take it all the way or pass to a release valve in the corner or on the wing. But his hesitation when he has the ball up top is killing the Mavs. And under 5 minutes, that is who gets the ball a llot to "initiate" the offense. And not a surprise that the offense becomes terrible.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:30 AM   #66
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For me; is safe to say that DC is not that good... I think he will be a great option for your bench, but not in the starting lineup. I also believe he is not a good fit with OJ... OJ need someone with size to play with him... to they switch positions in case he is facing the Paul George's or Joe Johnson's of the league.

I was reading some posts on nbadraft.net and someone posted about Tyreke Evans... I think this guy would be the perfect fit alongside OJ. Tyreke can penetrate even better than Collison and will open the floor for Dirk and OJ... also he still young and like OJ was never used well by his team... the guy was a machine in his rookie year (around 20-5-5 / another team smilar to OJ) and I think he can get back to that... This also solve the Cuban problem because Tyreke/OJ will be the future of the franchise when D41 retires... Think about it?! ... make sense.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUqlZq7Q4sM

Tyreke
OJ
Marion
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Kaman

Bench

Collison
Jones
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Wright

The rookies.


A contender for sure... my only doubt is if there is any real chance a package Dojo + Beaubois + multiple picks can get him.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:30 AM   #67
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Slow decision making if you are not posting up is a killer for a team. Pass, drive or shoot it, get on with it and good things will happen. Sit there dribbling the ball thinking about it makes the entire team slow up.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:45 PM   #68
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It's time to bench Collison. The numbers say we are better without him on the floor and watching game after game of him absolutely killing team defense and intensity, it's become very clear and he ain't going to magically get better when Dirk gets back. The guy just doesn't make good decisions and can't pass into the post, across the floor or even downcourt.

That leaves us Roddy/DoJo/Cunningham, which is admittedly shaky, but this team is better without him.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:13 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
It's time to bench Collison. The numbers say we are better without him on the floor and watching game after game of him absolutely killing team defense and intensity, it's become very clear and he ain't going to magically get better when Dirk gets back. The guy just doesn't make good decisions and can't pass into the post, across the floor or even downcourt.

That leaves us Roddy/DoJo/Cunningham, which is admittedly shaky, but this team is better without him.
agreed - and I had hoped that he would be a big addition to the team.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:38 AM   #70
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Well, yeah - there's that too... I was just speaking in regards to Barea - who doesn't have stellar defensive techniques either, but is still effective due to his willingness to get physical. I just don't see Collison making a whole lot of contact on defense.
Jj is terrible defensively. He tries really hard which occassionally makes for some nice plays but he's just too physically limited to actually be good
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:40 PM   #71
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I can do without Collison being the second coming, but at the least, I wanted him to be as advertised in the sense of being an offensive threat that the opposition has to deal with. Wasn't that all the talk prior to the season that Collison was going to be a guy that will take it into the paint and score unlike Kidd? This is what is frustrating me the most this season. Derek Harper -- by his play -- conditioned me to believe that a point guard should be able to get a good shot up whenever he wants. Jason kidd obviously didn't fit that mold but all the preseason talk had me feeling like Collison might be that guy. Right now, his inconsistency in being a scorer for the mavs is disheartening. Yes, I would like him to be able to get assists and play decent defense as well, but I think he -- and the pg position in general --.need to be a consistent threat offensively for this season to be any kind of success.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:56 PM   #72
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Unfortunately, my wife and I bought tickets to the Mav/Laker game Saturday. It was our first live game since game 6 of the 2011 NBA finals in Miami. Wow, what a letdown. LOL I haven't been able to watch many games this year, but the 2 biggest things that stuck with me:

1. Collison is absolutely awful. He dribbles too much and can't finish.
2. Who is the guy with the Brand jersey on? He's so invisible that it looks like 4 on 5 at times. You'd think a guy with his height could at least get an "accidental" rebound.

This game was definitely a bummer. Spacing was not good, ball movement stagnant. I can't remember the last time I saw so many passes to a teammate who was only 2 feet away!

I'm definitely looking forward to Dirk coming back. I think that'll be a huge lift. Point guard is a huge problem right now though. Sadly, I'm done with Roddy. I'd just as soon see him out of here. Jones brings some good things to the table, but guards who can't hit 50% at the free throw line don't stick in the NBA for long, and they certainly don't start.

I'm looking forward to January though. Dirk should be back and rounding into shape, and hopefully some other guys will pick up their game and the team will gel.

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Old 11-26-2012, 01:15 PM   #73
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^The sad part is that Roddy was the best pg on the floor Saturday night. Six assists and one turnover is actually a decent night for him these days.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #74
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I'm guessing our point guards will play better once Dirk returns. Until then, they will struggle.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:41 PM   #75
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I really feel like people must have had unrealistic expectations for collison. Yes he's inconsistent but he's avg 13/6 and that's without a go to scored which always makes life easier for a pg. The only thing iv been disappointed with is his d
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:57 PM   #76
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What I've been disappointed with is his hesitancy off of pick and rolls.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:02 PM   #77
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I'd really hope that our starting PG would have a positive effect on a team that is only .500. I don't think that is a terribly high expectation. Even a net 0 for a .500 team would be OK with me.

My biggest problems are
1) passing ability. The guy just doesn't know how to pass into the post. If you can't get it into Dirk, you shouldn't be on the team. The floor will be way more open with Dirk, but if he can't consistently make an even avererage pass, we have a problem. JJB couldn't do it well for a few years. Collison can't now and Collison isn't as sneaky and nowhere near as aggressive as JJB and all JJB could be was a changeup player that was one-man offense.

2) Defense. This one isnt as important, but neither Dirk nor Kaman are the weak side defenders we'd need to cover up problems with the guards. If anything we need the guards to be strong so there is less pressure on Dirk and Kaman. The only real shot blockers we have are Wright (doghouse) and James (rook)
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:05 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
It's time to bench Collison. The numbers say we are better without him on the floor and watching game after game of him absolutely killing team defense and intensity, it's become very clear and he ain't going to magically get better when Dirk gets back. The guy just doesn't make good decisions and can't pass into the post, across the floor or even downcourt.

That leaves us Roddy/DoJo/Cunningham, which is admittedly shaky, but this team is better without him.
The numbers also say that Dominic Jones, Dhantay Jones AND Roddy all have a more positive impact on the floor than Mayo.

The numbers also say that Shawn Marion is one of the biggest negative impact players on the team.

We're dealing with a tiny sample size right now, and a team fluctuating without its anchor, and a coach trying to make do while integrating a host of new players.

It is so, so far away it being time to bench Collison that it's not even funny.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:28 AM   #79
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The numbers also say that Dominic Jones, Dhantay Jones AND Roddy all have a more positive impact on the floor than Mayo.

The numbers also say that Shawn Marion is one of the biggest negative impact players on the team.

We're dealing with a tiny sample size right now, and a team fluctuating without its anchor, and a coach trying to make do while integrating a host of new players.

It is so, so far away it being time to bench Collison that it's not even funny.

I'll give you that DoJo has only played 108 min, Roddy 126, and Dahntay 151, but guys that have played almost 500 minutes-- that is hardly a "tiny sample size". So, no, you can't say that Roddy is better than a player who does have an adequate sample size, but you can say that a guy that has played that many minutes and who actually makes the team worse is a big question mark. Who would be better? I'm not sure we have anyone on the roster-- even if I thought we did, the sample sizes of all our alternates is so tiny.

I just think that we've seen Collison up close and he's little more than an early JJB and I wouldn't want JJB starting next to Dirk either. Early on JJB had no idea how to play in any team offense and at the end all he knew how to do was to look for his own shot, but was a decent spark plug off the bench as long as he was the offense. When he played next to Dirk, it was painful how bad he was at getting it to Dirk in a place that Dirk could use it.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see Collison being a guy like Antoine Walker that is as much as negative as a positive. He can win games some nights on his own, but more often his mistakes and inability to play point are going to kill us.

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Old 11-27-2012, 04:31 AM   #80
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All the point guards will look decent once Dirk comes back. Dirk did the same for Terry and Harris. Neither are pure point guards but found it easier running the offense with Dirk. Though it wasn't perfect, it still was good enough to get the Mavs to the finals that one year.
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