2013-14 NBA Season: Random Thoughts Thread

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

Report: Luol Deng shocked at mess that is the Cavaliers

When things start to go bad on one of Brown’s team, they snowball to a level that gets out of control extremely quickly — which is exactly what happened when he was relieved of his duties as coach of the Lakers just five games into last season.

Yeah, but at least D'Antoni really got that Lakers ship righted fast.

I hate this kind of knee-jerk, me-too, pile-on blogging by kids on the internet, who pick up a meme (e.g. "Mike Brown can't coach") and repeat it every time an opposing team scores a basket on a Brown-coached team.

Maybe it's just a case of an inexperienced GM bringing immature players into a chronically difficult losing situation (e.g. Cleveland) without a mix of experienced, responsible veterans to liaison between managment and players, and neither the coach, nor the GM, nor the owner having enough juice to fix things on the fly. But just repeat the line that "Mike Brown can't coach."

[LSMF]

This is how I felt during the 2006 Finals tbqh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urfdwK-IC6M

[dirt_dobber]

Will the new commissioner warn LeBron ?
.

LeBron flops twice on the same play vs. Pistons (VIDEO)
by: Brett Pollakoff
(video gif at link http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...pistons-video/ )

LeBron James is built like a tank, but when trying to defend a slightly taller and perhaps equally-strong Greg Monroe in the post, things can get a bit physical.

This play actually was a real battle for position, it’s just that the contact that was made likely wasn’t enough to send LeBron flying to the floor the way he did. And it certainly wasn’t enough to warrant the first flop he performed before going down.

Again, there was real contact here, and James did get a small shot to the chin (which, obviously, is easy for me to say). But the league sees plays like this as follows:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Flopping” will be defined as any physical act that appears to have been intended to cause the referees to call a foul on another player. The primary factor in determining whether a player committed a flop is whether his physical reaction to contact with another player is inconsistent with what would reasonably be expected given the force or direction of the contact.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By that definition, a warning should be on the way from the league office.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by LSMF

This is how I felt during the 2006 Finals tbqh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urfdwK-IC6M

This is how you'll be able to tell if the NBA is serious about acknowledging officiating errors, or if David Stern was just goosing Cuban and the Mavericks on his way out the door.

If the NBA is serious about acknowledging officiating mistakes, they will admit that no foul should have been called, suspend the referee who called the utterly bogus phantom foul on Noah, and fine him an equivalent amount to what Noah was fined. Or at least make him refund half or Noah's $15,000.

If Noah had strangled that referee (and I was kinda hoping he would), I would not have penalized him.

That kind of call totally degrades the integrity of the NBA, and when you've seen it often enough and you know that certain officials are baiting certain players, you realize just how much theater, fraud and manipulation is going on. It's really muted a lot of my interest in pro ball over the years.

[chumdawg]

Are you aware that the referees have a union?

[Skywalker]

Well, so do the players

[Jack.Kerr]

Exhibit 1:

Referee Stafford received two-game suspension

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
February 26, 2003

The NBA does not announce disciplinary action taken against its referees, but ESPN.com has learned that two game officials were recently sanctioned in the wake of run-ins with Miami coach Pat Riley -- one suspended and the other fined.

Derrick Stafford, who clashed with Riley during a Heat-Blazers game just before the All-Star break, was required to serve a two-game suspension this month, according to league sources. Newspaper reports quoted Stafford telling Riley during the game: "It's not about you. Go on TV crying."

Riley was fined $20,000 for "publicly criticizing game officials to assembled media" after that game.

Steve Javie, meanwhile, has been fined $1,000 by the league office for his part in an exchange with Riley early in the 2001-02 season. The incident didn't get national attention until December of this season, when Riley was fined $50,000 for saying leaguewide "dislike for me over the years" among referees -- specifically Javie -- was influencing the way Heat games are officiated.

"It all started, I think, last year," Riley said Dec. 13 after a loss to the Knicks. "I think I sort of sensed something changing last year when Steve Javie, in Cleveland -- and to his delight, obviously, absolute delight, as we were getting beat, and going through a real tough time -- came to my face, after we were having a discussion, and said, 'It's giving us absolute delight to watch you and your team die.' "

NBA vice president of operations Stu Jackson declined comment through a spokesman Wednesday, citing the league's policy of not discussing internal communications with its referees.

Jackson did acknowledge during All-Star Weekend in Atlanta that the league was "investigating both sides" of the Stafford-Riley incident from Feb. 5. Commissioner David Stern, however, said in Atlanta that he remains against publicly disclosing disciplinary measures taken against game officials.

"I just think in light of the competitive challenges when players and coaches get a hold of certain information, it might further erode the ability of these gentlemen to do the job that they do so well," Stern said at his annual state-of-the-league address. "So I'm resisting that."

A week before his clash with Riley, Stafford drew the ire of Sacramento coach Rick Adelman and Kings center Vlade Divac in Sacramento's home loss to the Los Angeles Lakers on Jan. 31. Divac was quoted in the Sacramento Bee as saying that Stafford told Doug Christie, "Tell Vlade this is not the last game of yours I'll be working this season."

Javie was back in the news again last week for ejecting Memphis coach Hubie Brown and Adelman in separate games in a span of three days.

[Jack.Kerr]

Exhibit 2:

Crawford suspended indefinitely; Duncan fined $25K

April 17, 2007

NEW YORK -- Joey Crawford is done ejecting players and coaches this season.

On Tuesday, he was the one getting tossed.The veteran NBA referee was suspended indefinitely by commissioner David Stern for his conduct toward Tim Duncan, who contends the official challenged him to a fight during a game in Dallas.

Crawford has worked more postseason games than any active ref. His suspension will last at least through the NBA Finals, and he apparently will have to meet with Stern after that to discuss reinstatement.

"Especially in light of similar prior acts by this official, a significant suspension is warranted," Stern said in a statement. "Although Joey is consistently rated as one of our top referees, he must be held accountable for his actions on the floor, and we will have further discussions with him following the season to be sure he understands his responsibilities."

But Crawford made it clear to NBA executive vice president Stu Jackson on Tuesday that he would eject Duncan again if the circumstances were the same.Crawford likewise informed superiors, including Stern, and fellow referees via e-mail Tuesday that "if my employer does not think that was acceptable, I have a problem" working in the future.

Crawford has maintained from the start that Duncan deserved two technicals for what he deemed to be disrespecting the game by "laughing [at] and mocking the officials."

However, in his e-mail to Bloomberg News, Crawford appeared to imply that he didn't expect to officiate an NBA game again in his career.

"Please do not be sad for me," Crawford wrote to Bloomberg News. "I have had a great run and a great career and nobody will ever take that from me." Crawford ejected Duncan from San Antonio's loss after calling a second technical foul on the Spurs star while he was laughing on the bench.

"He looked at me and said, 'Do you want to fight? Do you want to fight?"' Duncan said. "If he wants to fight, we can fight. I don't have any problem with him, but we can do it if he wants to. I have no reason why in the middle of a game he would yell at me, 'Do you want to fight?"'

Crawford was cited for "improper conduct" and "inappropriate comments made to Duncan during the game." Stern said Crawford's actions "failed to meet the standards of professionalism and game management we expect of NBA referees."

The NBA also fined Duncan $25,000 for verbal abuse of an official. Crawford said Duncan referred to him with an expletive. Crawford was the first referee suspended since Rodney Mott was banned three games Jan. 12 for making an obscene gesture toward a fan and also using inappropriate language in Portland.

Crawford comes from an officiating family. His brother, Jerry, is a major league umpire, as was his father, Shag.

Joey Crawford is in his 31st season as an NBA referee. He has officiated more than 2,000 games during the regular season and 266 in the playoffs, including 38 in the NBA Finals.

But his temper has gotten him noticed before, especially in Game 2 of the 2003 Western Conference finals, a matchup involving the same teams as in Sunday's game. Crawford called four technical fouls in the first 10 minutes, 11 seconds, leading to ejections of then-Mavs coach Don Nelson and assistant Del Harris.

Two of the technicals in that game came in rapid succession during a timeout when Nelson tried to engage Crawford in a staredown and did not heed his order to return to his bench. Assistant coach Del Harris was tossed by Crawford late in the second quarter after he walked onto the court to protest a non-call against Duncan for playing illegal defense. "Don [Nelson] walked up to half court. I never told him to sit down because that's not my job to tell him to sit down," Crawford told a pool reporter at the time. "I told him to go coach his team, and he said, 'No, I'm not going to.' So I hit him with one. I said, 'Go coach your team.' He said, 'I'm staying right here.' So, bang, I threw him.

"Del Harris was different," Crawford said then. "Del Harris came to my partner [Ted Bernhardt] at a timeout and said that he was going to get ejected, and to eject him on one [technical], which isn't unusual."

Stern was so angry with Crawford for overshadowing the playoff game that, according to a league source, Crawford was told that if he repeated such actions, the consequences would be serious.

Nelson and Harris, now with Golden State, and Mavericks owner Mark Cuban all declined to say anything about Crawford's suspension before the Warriors played Dallas on Tuesday night. "All I can do is get in more trouble," Nelson said. Crawford also called a technical in a recent game against Duncan, who said Sunday that Crawford has a "personal vendetta against me."

Duncan was called for his first technical foul Sunday with 2:20 remaining in the third quarter for arguing about an offensive foul. Crawford hit him with the second technical 1:16 later after Duncan was on the bench laughing about a call that went against the Spurs. With Duncan gone, the Mavericks rallied to beat the Spurs, ending San Antonio's chance of earning the No. 2 seed in the Western Conference.

[Jack.Kerr]

I'm pretty sure that the NBA has the ability to discipline its referees. The issue would be one of greater transparency, a concept to which previous NBA commissioner David Stern was somewhat averse in years past. Recently, however, some NBA owners such as Mark Cuban have made calls for greater transparency in evaluating officiating, which could reasonably entail timely disclosure of disciplinary actions taken against NBA officials.

It would seem that the NBA has tacitly acknowledged the inappropriateness of the calls that resulted in Noah's ejection by failing to suspend Noah for his response, and by only fining him $15,000 when many observers anticipated that a suspension would be forthcoming.

Interestingly, it was Rodney Mott who made the bogus call(s)/non-call(s) against Noah versus Sacramento. Mott has previously demonstrated his lack of self-control and tendency toward antagonistic behavior by making obscene gestures at NBA fans in Portland back in 2007, for which he was suspended 3 games.

I would be fairly surprised if Mott doesn't get some league feedback for what transpired in the Bulls v. Kings game given the degree of exposure that video clip has gotten, and given the egregiousness of the calls made by Mott. The question will be how soon (if ever) any disciplinary actions are made public.

[spreedom]

Jared Dudley is apparently on the trade block, as the Clippers have depth at the wing and feel that his game overlaps too much with the much better Redick. Apparently they're looking for frontcourt depth. Looks like it would be tough for us to get him in a two-team trade but maybe a tanking team like Philly would help accomodate us? Dudley is a role player that I've coveted for a few years because he works hard, defends well and doesn't ever try to do anything that's not his game. Also, he would instantly becomethe best defender on the team (except maybe Devin, and Dalembert when he tries). Any interest?

[dirt_dobber]

2014 All Star Game 3 point contest - AND NO Jose Calderon?????????

Player Name-----3PA--------3PT%
EAST
Arron Afflalo-----211--------.427
Bradley Beal-----184--------.408
Joe Johnson------223--------.386

WEST
Marco Belinelli----169------.444
Stephen Curry----389------.406
Damian Lillard----346------.405
Kevin Love--------285------.375

BUT NO!!!!!
#6 in the league Jose Calderon with 270 3PA and a .441 3PT% not invited

anti Mavs bias – FACT

[alby]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

2014 All Star Game 3 point contest - AND NO Jose Calderon?????????

Player Name-----3PA--------3PT%
EAST
Arron Afflalo-----211--------.427
Bradley Beal-----184--------.408
Joe Johnson------223--------.386

WEST
Marco Belinelli----169------.444
Stephen Curry----389------.406
Damian Lillard----346------.405
Kevin Love--------285------.375

BUT NO!!!!!
#6 in the league Jose Calderon with 270 3PA and a .441 3PT% not invited

anti Mavs bias – FACT

To be honest, I'm okay with it. I want to see Curry, Dame, and KLove. I guess you can replace Marco but I'm looking forward to the team getting a few days off.

[jleefilled]

Right now, 56-19, the Clippers lead the 76ers. Ouch for Philly.

[EricaLubarsky]

Awesome game.

25-66

[jleefilled]

89-33 with 6 minutes left in the third. Apparently, it's too early for doc to take starters out.

[spreedom]

Clips had the Sixers lapped for a minute there, 98-49...

[sike]

Someone needs to check the weather report for Hell...The Pistons beat the Spurs by 9 today.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

Someone needs to check the weather report for Hell...The Pistons beat the Spurs by 9 today.

NBA: "where amaZing happens."

[sike]

must spread rep.

[Jack.Kerr]

Jimmer Fredette comes off the bench for 24 points in 27 minutes on a Dirk-like 14 shots (9-14, 6-8 3s, no FTs) as the Kings go into MSG and spank the NYKs.

Tough-guy J.R.Smith sits this one out with a broken face.

[LSMF]

Props to James Johnson for completely embarrassing that douchebag Matt Barnes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T6yA_j2H2I (LOL @ DeAndre Jordan's face as the Posterization is happening)

[sefant77]

im okay to pick up James Johnson in the summer as backup SF

[alby]

Thomas Robinson's block last night... Goodness gracious

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by alby

Thomas Robinson's block last night... Goodness gracious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhdYpW2ocso ?

[LSMF]

Excellent block. Man, it's tough to play in the Rose Garden...

[Jack.Kerr]

Would it have killed her to do this 24 hours earlier? Also, how much does Dolan wish he'd pulled the trigger on that Lowry trade now? Dolt.

Knicks guard Raymond Felton faces gun charges

Posted On 25 Feb 2014 By AHN

New York, NY, United States (4E Sports) – New York Knicks point guard Raymond Felton was arrested and charged with felony gun possession after his wife surrendered his gun and accused him of threatening her with the weapon.

Felton’s arrest came after the Knicks lost to the Dallas Mavericks Monday.

According to police, a divorce lawyer for Felton’s wife, Ariane Raymondo-Felton, turned in the gun at the 20th Precinct station house, saying the firearm belonged to the playmaker.

Two hours later, Raymondo-Felton came in for questioning and gave her statements to detectives at the precinct, accusing Felton of threatening her with the firearm. But it was not immediately clear when any threats she described took place.

Authorities said the couple was in the process of divorcing.

The police described the gun as an FN Herstal, a Belgian weapon, and said it was loaded when it was turned in. Felton’s wife told the police that the gun was being kept in their Upper West Side apartment in Manhattan.

After scoring eight points and seven assists against the Mavericks, Felton turned himself in at the same station house at 12:50 a.m. and was charged with second-, third- and fourth-degree counts of weapons possession. Two of the charges are felonies.

The 29-year-old Felton is expected to be arraigned later Tuesday and for now remains in police custody.

Felton has struggled this season and the Knicks tried to send him to another team before the trading deadline but there were no takers.

Last season, the Knicks signed Felton to a three-year, $10 million deal with a $4.5 million player option for 2015-16.

[Jack.Kerr]

Felton's defense attorney can point out that he's only connecting on 29% from distance for the year, so Ariane was never in real danger.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Felton's defense attorney can point out that he's only connecting on 29% from distance for the year, so Ariane was never in real danger.

Nice.

[alby]

Harden 43 points in 31 minutes tonight (sat out in the 4th). Easily could have gotten 60.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by alby

Harden 43 points in 31 minutes tonight (sat out in the 4th). Easily could have gotten 60.

I saw about 4 highlights from that game. He traveled on every one.

[alby]

Originally Posted by BPo001

I saw about 4 highlights from that game. He traveled on every one.

I wouldn't argue against that.

[FreshJive]

Nice insider article.

More efficient AND more scoring?
Players' awareness of advanced metrics could impact the MVP race

By Kevin Pelton

By adjusted true shooting percentage, Kevin Durant and LeBron James are atop the NBA all-time.
As the NBA's metrics community gathers in Boston for the annual MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, starting Friday, the growing impact of analytics on the league can be found in many places. From the number of teams employing analysts to advanced stats on NBA.com, it's hard to miss the influence of analytics. But the most interesting example might be playing out on the court as Kevin Durant and LeBron James battle for MVP.

Wait, the MVP race? While advanced metrics won't necessarily decide the vote, as has been the case with baseball's biggest awards in recent years, there's reason to believe that our newfound understanding of the game has helped lift both players to newfound levels of performance.


Unprecedented scoring and efficiency

Last month, Deadspin noted that both Durant and James are reaching historic levels in terms of their combination of scoring efficiency, as measured by true shooting percentage (TS%), and share in their teams' offenses, as measured by usage rate.

In the past, as shown by Evan Zamir, there has been a frontier beyond which NBA players have been unable to go. They could trade off fewer shots for better efficiency -- as James did last season -- or score more with a lower true shooting percentage, but never accomplish both at the same time. Until now.

I've measured the combination of usage and efficiency with a metric called adjusted true shooting percentage that estimates what the player's true shooting would be if he used plays at an average rate (20 percent of the time). Translating TS% from past seasons to this season's NBA average to account for fluctuations in offense levels league-wide, the cap on adjusted TS% is about .700, a mark nobody had reached before this season. As the chart below shows, James (.709) and Durant (.703) are both on pace to surpass it.

BEST SCORING SEASONS SINCE NBA-ABA MERGER
Player Year UsageTS% Adj. TS%
LeBron James 2014 .307 .656 .709
Kevin Durant 2014 .331 .638 .703
Kevin Durant 2013 .300 .647 .699
Adrian Dantley 1983 .261 .661 .699
Artis Gilmore 1982 .196 .702 .698
Charles Barkley 1988 .267 .665 .698
Artis Gilmore 1981 .185 .699 .695
LeBron James 2013 .304 .640 .695
Amar'e Stoudemire2008 .284 .656 .694
Darryl Dawkins 1986 .230 .680 .691

Of course, there's a month and a half left in the season, and both MVP candidates could regress to some extent. At the same time, given Durant set the previous record in adjusted TS% last season (edging past Adrian Dantley in 1982-83) and James was in the top 10 in 2012-13, this is far more trend than fluke.

Death of the volume scorer

Thing is, Durant and James aren't alone. While their efficiency is far off the charts, two more of the league's top 10 scorers in points per game -- Stephen Curry (.601) and James Harden (.603) -- have posted TS% of better than .600 this season. Blake Griffin (.588) and Kevin Love (.597) aren't far behind. Among the NBA's 10 leading scorers, LaMarcus Aldridge of the Portland Trail Blazers (.513) and DeMar DeRozan of the Toronto Raptors (.523) are the two with below-average shooting efficiency.

This season's top five in points per game collectively score with a TS% that's 13.0 percent better than league average, just ahead of last season (12.9 percent) for the highest relative mark since the ABA-NBA merger. That hasn't always been the case, as the chart shows. (chart shows a steady decline from 1990 to 2000, ups and downs to 2010 with a sharp rise from 2010 to present, couldn't copy paste it)

As recently as three seasons ago, the top five scorers were just 6.0 percent better than average. And high scorers were notoriously inefficient in 2000-01, when the top five were 4.9 percent better than average and the top 10 were 3.6 percent better than average. Not coincidentally, that's when Allen Iverson of the Philadelphia 76ers was voted MVP.

About that time, statistical analysts first started to gain a foothold on the Internet and began touting the importance of efficient scoring. If anything, that message has probably sunk in too well, and volume scoring -- the ability to create shots at average efficiency or slightly worse -- is now somewhat underrated. Better still is the ability to create shots at above-average efficiency, and the new math has helped stars do just that.

Superior shot selection yields historic results

The advances statistical analysts have made in understanding shot selection, and the superiority of 3-pointers and shots at the rim to midrange jump shots, have trickled down to players, and not equally. Rethinking shot selection has helped star players trade out those long 2-point attempts -- long a staple because they are asked to create their own offense rather than getting set up by others -- for 3-pointers or forays to the hoop.

That's evident in the way Durant and James have evolved in terms of their shot distribution, via NBA.com/stats.

STARS' SHOT SELECTION
James
Durant
Year Rim% Midrange% 3PA% Rim% Midrange% 3PA%
2011 .336 .479 .185 .180 .551 .269
2012 .355 .518 .127 .234 .502 .265
2013 .400 .413 .188 .241 .525 .233
2014 .428 .346 .226 .260 .474 .266

James, who averages a little more than 17 shots per game, has over the past two seasons cut about three midrange shots in favor of one more try at the rim and two more beyond the arc. Durant's less dramatic transformation this season has seen him take about one fewer midrange attempt per game out of his 20-plus.

It's unclear how much analytics have played a direct role in influencing the league's biggest stars. Last season, Sports Illustrated's Lee Jenkins reported on Durant's use of a personal statistical analyst, but Durant recently said he let the specialist go because he was concerned about overthinking things on the court. Instead, Durant prefers to focus on the X's and O's.

Though James won't be confused with sabermetrics pioneer Bill James, he has embraced the value of high shooting percentages.

"When you're a young player, you cast up low-percentage shots, and you're not really involved with the numbers as much as far as field goal percentage and things of that nature," LeBron James told Grantland's Kirk Goldsberry last season. "As I've grown, I've made more of a conscious effort to become a more efficient player and I think it's helped my team's success over the years."

Whether Durant and James specifically altered their games because of metrics or not, their lessons have surely had an impact. In a league in which efficiency is valued more than ever, Durant and James stand as the ultimate tribute. The new NBA, shaped by analytics, has helped them reach heights no scorers in modern league history have reached before.

[EricaLubarsky]

Chandler wants out of NY and the Knicks are in a hard rebuild.

If anyone would take his 15mill salary, they could probably get him cheap.

Anyone think that we could simply re-create the same roster as 2011 and actually be successful?

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Chandler wants out of NY and the Knicks are in a hard rebuild.

If anyone would take his 15mill salary, they could probably get him cheap.

Anyone think that we could simply re-create the same roster as 2011 and actually be successful?

Not sure who would effectively fill the Jason Kidd role though...

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Chandler wants out of NY and the Knicks are in a hard rebuild.

If anyone would take his 15mill salary, they could probably get him cheap.

Anyone think that we could simply re-create the same roster as 2011 and actually be successful?

I've been a longtime advocate of bringing Tyson back... I fully believe that Melo is going to walk this summer, and if/when that happens, I think the Knicks will do whatever they can to shed salary. I'd happily welcome him back.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Chandler wants out of NY and the Knicks are in a hard rebuild.

If anyone would take his 15mill salary, they could probably get him cheap.

Anyone think that we could simply re-create the same roster as 2011 and actually be successful?

Mark Cuban signing Tyson Chandler at this point would be the ultimate admittance of defeat... His ego won't allow that to happen.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'd do it just to show people that we have more problems than just a different starting center. Dalembert has been pretty darn good lately, and it isn't solving the team-wide defensive issue. Don't get me wrong...I'd gladly welcome Chandler back, but too many think unreasonably about the type of impact he'd make.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd do it just to show people that we have more problems than just a different starting center. Dalembert has been pretty darn good lately, and it isn't solving the team-wide defensive issue. Don't get me wrong...I'd gladly welcome Chandler back, but too many think unreasonably about the type of impact he'd make.

Good coaching will bring the Tyson of old back, assuming he can stay healthy. And Tyson of old had a HUGE influence on the "defensive disposition" of this team... guys were active, making good decisions, and making their matchup work hard to get their numbers. Right now we don't have a vocal guy like that on the roster. Dalembert has been okay, but very up-and-down, this season, and honestly I don't think he's much more than a good backup at this point of his career. He doesn't do enough things at a high level. I'd gladly take Tyson back even with the $14.59M left on his deal next year. I'd love if Tyson retired here. It probably won't happen, but I'd love to see it. Just depends if the Knicks will be that desperate to trade a one-year deal, and what they'd be looking for in return.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Just depends if the Knicks will be that desperate to trade a one-year deal, and what they'd be looking for in return.

Tyson & Shumpert, for Marion, Carter, & Dalembert?

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Tyson & Shumpert, for Marion, Carter, & Dalembert?

I seriously doubt the Knicks would consider a trade like that... especially if they have to give up Shumpert. The point of trading Tyson would be to get assets and cap relief... I could see something like Larkin/2nd for Tyson (wherein we absorb the contract into our cap space) or something similar to that... maybe add a signed-and-traded player to the deal too if they have interest in any of our free-agents-to-be, but taking all three of those old guys doesn't make much sense for the Knicks. I'd be more than happy to take Shumpert off their hands if they absolutely insisted, though. More likely they'd insist on us taking back JR or Bargs... both guys that would be deal-breakers for me.