2018 NBA Draft - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sefant77 · 05-05-2018, 02:21 PM

People always point out Doncics defense but with Bagley its no problem...interesting.

Bryan_Wilson · 05-05-2018, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

People always point out Doncics defense but with Bagley its no problem...interesting.

I'm with you. I think it's because the athletic profile of Bagley is he should be a good defender with coaching and development, because he has the tools. But that's still nothing more than hope. I still say Doncic has the bbiq necessary to at the very least be adequate against 2's and only have a tough time against elite 2's which shouldn't be a negative imo. He'd still be in my top 2 if not for the fact that I think Bamba changes the entire team for the better. So while true bpa for me is doncic it's close enough that I can't stop myself from taking someone who would change life for 4 other players on the floor for the better and make life extremely difficult for 5 players on the other side.

Underdog · 05-05-2018, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

People always point out Doncics defense but with Bagley its no problem...interesting.

I like both of them less than most precisely for their lack of defense... That's why I'm more intrigued by defensive stalwarts like Jackson, Bamba and Bridges -- because I think scoring will come easier to them than defense will come to Bagley or Doncic.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-05-2018, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

People always point out Doncics defense but with Bagley its no problem...interesting.

One has elite athleticism and the other does not.

No matter what you think of either, Bagley without a doubt fits better with Smith jr than Doncic does.

Underdog · 05-05-2018, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

One has elite athleticism and the other does not.

No matter what you think of either, Bagley without a doubt fits better with Smith jr than Doncic does.

I can definitely agree with this... Bagley has tools to work with on defense, Doncic does not.

Hell, undersized Yogi is probably already a stronger defender than point-forward Luka will ever be.

Bryan_Wilson · 05-05-2018, 05:06 PM

Neither is going to be picked for their defense. It's just splitting hairs to me comparing their defense. One has bbiq/instincts that help overcome elite athleticism and the other has athletic tools that help overcome a lack of instincts and understanding on defense. It's just a matter of preference.

Normally I'm on the side of athletic upside but to me Doncic is just special. And Bagley for all his tools isn't just a little development and good coaching away from being a great defender, he really had no business being as bad as he was defensively.

I'd love if there was a compiled list of the 7ft bigs Bagley went against and how he fared and how they fared. I thought it was here but I can't find it but someone posted an article here or maybe reddit that showed just how bad Bagley was on defense. It was around the time he missed some games and Duke was like 15 points better on defense but 10 worse on offense. It was a small sample size iirc which is why I'd really be interested in a compiled list of the 7'0 guys he faced and what the results were. Maybe I'll get bored during these shitty playoff games and make one if I can't find one already made.

SMC0007 · 05-05-2018, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Neither is going to be picked for their defense. It's just splitting hairs to me comparing their defense. One has bbiq/instincts that help overcome elite athleticism and the other has athletic tools that help overcome a lack of instincts and understanding on defense. It's just a matter of preference.

Normally I'm on the side of athletic upside but to me Doncic is just special. And Bagley for all his tools isn't just a little development and good coaching away from being a great defender, he really had no business being as bad as he was defensively.

I'd love if there was a compiled list of the 7ft bigs Bagley went against and how he fared and how they fared. I thought it was here but I can't find it but someone posted an article here or maybe reddit that showed just how bad Bagley was on defense. It was around the time he missed some games and Duke was like 15 points better on defense but 10 worse on offense. It was a small sample size iirc which is why I'd really be interested in a compiled list of the 7'0 guys he faced and what the results were. Maybe I'll get bored during these shitty playoff games and make one if I can't find one already made.

That list would be interesting... but he took it to Bamba and Texas wit a huge game. Fwiw

sefant77 · 05-05-2018, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

One has elite athleticism and the other does not.

No matter what you think of either, Bagley without a doubt fits better with Smith jr than Doncic does.

One of them has an elite brain and feel/understanding for the game...on generational level considering his age.

hayth.james.g · 05-05-2018, 07:43 PM

I see the appeal of Bamba. I would feel great about getting him if we draft 5/6. I just think he is a project with huge upside - like a Jonathan Isaac/Ntilikina from last year.

Again this is IMHO, but I believe Doncic has the "it" factor you have to look for that impacts your team at every level.

Also, I think people are going too far in their doubts with Ayton. Don't get me wrong, I have problems with the lethargic defense too. But the guy is special with immense upside. I keep seeing comments like "no lebron" in this draft, and I just have a hard time with that framing of the conversation. I believe he is the best big man to come into the league since Anthony Davis, and maybe 2nd best in last 20 years.

tap2390 · 05-05-2018, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

One of them has an elite brain and feel/understanding for the game...on generational level considering his age.

Racking my brain I just can't think of a single NBA SG/SF who was/is a perennial all-star player despite lack of athleticism.

hayth.james.g · 05-05-2018, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Racking my brain I just can't think of a single NBA SG/SF who was/is a perennial all-star player despite lack of athleticism.

Jason Kidd? Larry Bird? Not 2/3s necessarily but they certainly give you an idea of what we are envisioning when we speak of Doncic. Keep in mind that you are putting him into the 2/3 spot when in today's game it is much less defined.

hayth.james.g · 05-05-2018, 10:09 PM

I'll add Doncic's highlights from April:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTK8sgZAj4w

Bryan_Wilson · 05-05-2018, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I'll add Doncic's highlights from April:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTK8sgZAj4w

I like how he uses his body. I think if he gets better at changing speeds like Ginobili was then he's going to be just fine despite the lack of athleticism. Still my favorite player. I can't wait to see him in the NBA.

SMC0007 · 05-07-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I'll add Doncic's highlights from April:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTK8sgZAj4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9flJ_nUAhw

3:20ish smh