A Failure of the Press - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 02-26-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

It was a veiled jab at Bush, it didn't come off as well as I would have liked I guess.

Well of course I vehemently disagree with you and hope that you have a little more sense than the blood-for-oil ridiculousness..Last time I looked oil was up about a buck. It's tin-foil-hat stuff.

Dubya is the ONLY reason that iraqi's have their own governement instead of another strongman dictator. If not for dubya' iraqi's would have already been left to the tender mercies of Al Queda or still starving to death under Sadaam.

orangedays · 02-26-2006, 04:38 PM

Haha, a Republican I see. Fair enough, I try not to dabble in politics, it's all bullsh*t to me. I'm much more of a international finance/economics guy. And to be honest I don't know enough about the current situation in Iraq to debate it (though that "blood-for-oil ridiculousness" is ridiculous). But yes we'll have to vehemently disagree with regards to 'Dubya'. I think the guy is an embarassment, but that's discussion for another thread.

dude1394 · 02-26-2006, 08:59 PM

Hmm...yup...not okay to show mohammad but okay to show jews taking the organs out of iraqi prisoners. Yup...right...

Wonder if the liberals will be hollering if they follow a few movie-goers home to see what's what.

http://telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht...26/wfilm26.xml

Quote:

Outcry in Germany as anti-Semitic film sells out
By Tony Paterson in Berlin
(Filed: 26/02/2006)

A virulently anti-Semitic film about the Iraq war has provoked a storm of protest in Germany after it sold out to cheering audiences from the country's 2.5 million-strong Turkish community.

Valley of the Wolves, by the Turkish director Serdan Akar, shows crazed American GIs massacring innocent guests at a wedding party and scenes in which a Jewish surgeon removes organs from Iraqi prisoners in a style reminiscent of the Nazi death camp doctor Joseph Mengele.

Bavaria's interior minister admitted last week that he had dispatched intelligence service agents to cinemas showing the film to "gauge" audience reaction and identify potential radicals.

orangedays · 02-27-2006, 01:06 AM

Damn bleeding heart liberals

dalmations202 · 02-27-2006, 11:01 AM

Orange, since you have extensive study of Islam, that I don't. Can you please interpret this for me.

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"9.29": Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

"9.30": And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

"9.31": They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

"9.32": They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.

"9.33": He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.

"9.34": O you who believe! most surely many of the doctors of law and the monks eat away the property of men falsely, and turn (them) from Allah's way; and (as for) those who hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah's way, announce to them a painful chastisement,

"9.35": On the day when it shall be heated in the fire of hell, then their foreheads and their sides and their backs shall be branded with it; this is what you hoarded up for yourselves, therefore taste what you hoarded.

"9.36": Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

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I just don't want to get the "may Allah destroy them" or the "fight those who do not believe" out of context.

orangedays · 02-27-2006, 12:54 PM

I understand your concern and appreciate the quotes. But keep in mind that for every violent quote you find in the Qur'an there is one that encourages peace and understanding (please refer to my previous posts). Additionally, the term 'fight' should not be taken out of context - the majority of times we see the word 'fight' in the Qur'an it refers to the higher form of jihad (or whatever the case may be) which is a mental/spiritual battle against ignorance. The Bible calls for a similar fight to be carried out against those who are non-Christian does it not? Though the semantics may be different, the Bible calls for those who carry the faith to bring said faith to those who do not believe, the message in the Qur'an in most instances is the same.

Here are some quotes for your digestion:
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"And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel." - Deuteronomy 17:12

"If a thief is caught in the act of housebreaking and beaten to death, there is no bloodguilt involved." - Exodus 22:1

"You shall not let a sorceress live." - Exodus 22:17

"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except to the LORD alone, shall be doomed." - Exodus 22:19

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." - Leviticus 20:13

"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death." - Leviticus 20:27

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." - 2 Chronicles 15:12-13

"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." - Zechariah 13:3

This one is particularly grim, apparently Christians are supposed to kill the entire town if one individual worships another God:

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." - Deuteronomy 13:13-19

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." - Deuteronomy 13:7-12

"Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death." - Deuteronomy 17:2-5

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction." - Jeremiah 50:21-22

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I guess my point is, I don't feel it's prudent to argue about the basic precepts of a religion by quoting from the Qur'an, or Bible, or Torah, or whatever the case may be. It is really less a matter of what these books say, and more of how what they say is interpreted. Christians and Jews do not go around judging and killing those who do not believe in their respective religions, and most Muslims do not go around judging and killing. We should remember the historical context in which they were written - religion back then was perpetuated mostly by fear - fear of shame, of death (and in the case of Christians, of eternal damnation). That being said, these books are pretty damn grim.

orangedays · 03-01-2006, 11:42 PM

Just as an addendum, the girl I'm dating is Muslim (non-practicing) and she revealed this to me:

It is also significant to know when a surah (chapter) was revealed to the Prophet, and whether it was in Mecca or Medina. This is because Muslims were tolerated at first, but then persecuted, which explains why certain surahs have more violent content than others.