Mitt Romney is one of the greatest and most irresponsible debt creators of all time - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 09-29-2012, 03:58 PM

Scientific "facts" change.. It's not that rare.

SeanL · 09-29-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Scientific "facts" change.. It's not that rare.

Science changes, but normally it builds on itself. Yes there are instances where well "known" facts completely change, but normally those changes are mere improvements upon previous theories (rather than completely invalidating them).

For example, Newton's laws of motion are actually not "correct", as Einstein showed with the special theory of relativity matter changes its behavior as it approaches the speed of light. In fact even though it is a theory your iPhone would not work without the special theory of relativity, so there is an algorithm for the GPS in your iPhone that adjusts for what the theory of relativity calls "time dilation."

Does that mean Newton's laws of motion are trash? No of course not. While it is wrong in a sense it is still a building block towards the next scientific achievement (the theory of relativity). And for the purposes of high school physics Newton's equations work relatively well (because the effects of time dilation are extremely small in slow moving objects). And I'm sure one day some great scientist will improve our current understanding of motion.

Now is the scientific method perfect? No, nothing is, but as Winston Churchill said of democracy, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." The scientific method has been shown to be the best system for gathering facts, and until something better comes along it is foolish to not accept that it is currently the best thing out there for gathering evidence.

Murphy3 · 09-30-2012, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanL

Science changes, but normally it builds on itself. Yes there are instances where well "known" facts completely change, but normally those changes are mere improvements upon previous theories (rather than completely invalidating them).
.

Meh

bernardos70 · 09-29-2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Scientific "facts" change.. It's not that rare.

Science changes..... religion doesn't. Which do you prefer?

Murphy3 · 09-30-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

Science changes..... religion doesn't. Which do you prefer?

Religion doesn't change? You sure about that?

Which do I prefer? Some of both.

Ninkobei · 09-29-2012, 10:39 PM

I wonder if the Romney supporters will become more vocal after the election, or less vocal. I for one look forward to not hearing from Romney again for a very long time.

chumdawg · 09-29-2012, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

I wonder if the Romney supporters will become more vocal after the election, or less vocal. I for one look forward to not hearing from Romney again for a very long time.

I'm not sure there *are* many pure Romney supporters. His support seems to be coming almost in full from an anti-Obama crowd.

bernardos70 · 10-01-2012, 11:46 AM

Fair enough. Are you against it? If so, why?

dude1394 · 10-01-2012, 05:17 PM

Because it is killing a human being baby? It's really not that complicated.

mcsluggo · 10-02-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Because it is killing a human being baby? It's really not that complicated.

you are correct .. it isn't very complicated at its core... but its very complicated in actual action.

pro choice people should be much more cognizant of the fact that anti abortion people REALLY believe that abortion is murdering a baby. That is nothing small, and I find it hard to believe that there are many pro choice people that would STAY pro-choice if they truly believed that an actual baby was invovled.

on the other hand anti abortion people have to truly understand that pro-choice people DON'T think that the fetus has become a baby yet (i think)... and that these people generally are NOT evil... even if they support a position that anti abortion people think is evil.

it is strongly felt on both sides.

(personally ... i dream of a day when more effort from BOTH sides is spent on helping pregnant women become mothers and helping mothers support babies (not just financially, but that sometimes certainly helps) so that "the choice" tilts more towards fewer abortions.

dude1394 · 10-03-2012, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

you are correct .. it isn't very complicated at its core... but its very complicated in actual action.

pro choice people should be much more cognizant of the fact that anti abortion people REALLY believe that abortion is murdering a baby. That is nothing small, and I find it hard to believe that there are many pro choice people that would STAY pro-choice if they truly believed that an actual baby was invovled.

on the other hand anti abortion people have to truly understand that pro-choice people DON'T think that the fetus has become a baby yet (i think)... and that these people generally are NOT evil... even if they support a position that anti abortion people think is evil.

it is strongly felt on both sides.

(personally ... i dream of a day when more effort from BOTH sides is spent on helping pregnant women become mothers and helping mothers support babies (not just financially, but that sometimes certainly helps) so that "the choice" tilts more towards fewer abortions.

I'm not so sure that it is complicated so much as conflicted. It's pretty apparent that it's either a baby or at least WILL actually be a baby. The conflicting part is where you have to rationalize to yourself that it is not. I don't really try to belittle the choice being made as making the choice to not kill the baby is definitely hard and can be life-changing, but it is a choice between life and death.

Saying the baby is not really alive IMO is just rationalization.

SeanL · 10-02-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Because it is killing a human being baby? It's really not that complicated.

I think sperm are babies. Stop masturbating! You're killing babies!

Dirkadirkastan · 10-03-2012, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanL

I think sperm are babies. Stop masturbating! You're killing babies!

I like how you think this is a relevant point.

SeanL · 10-03-2012, 06:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I like how you think this is a relevant point.

I like how you think the difference is more than arbitrary.

Dirkadirkastan · 10-03-2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanL

I like how you think the difference is more than arbitrary.

You're misrepresenting your opponent's position on where in the timeline they believe life begins.

It's the exact same thing as if a lifer walked up to you and said "You think life begins at 18 weeks? You might as well support third-trimester abortions!" (or as Murph might say, "aborting three-year-olds.")

mcsluggo · 10-03-2012, 10:41 AM

nobody disputes that a fetus is alive. Some don't think a fetus is a baby yet.

chumdawg · 10-04-2012, 01:06 AM

Sounds to me like a slippery slope fallacy. And also like the best effort to solve this "debate."

rabbitproof · 10-04-2012, 01:16 PM

It's kind of like asking if a red-orange color is red or orange..

Murphy3 · 10-04-2012, 01:51 PM

I think we all know what the other side believes. Pro-abortion... you're against taking responsibility for your actions. You're ok with murdering the innocent. If you're Pro-life, you're for taking responsibility for your actions and you're against the murdering of innocents.

Now what's really difficult to wrap your around is the pro-abortion crowd that's also anti-death penalty and members of PETA. Wow, there must be some heavy drug use going on around bed time. Otherwise, there would be no way that they could untangle their minds enough to get a good night's rest.

SeanL · 10-04-2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I think we all know what the other side believes. Pro-abortion... you're against taking responsibility for your actions.

I think it is interesting that pro-lifers think having a baby is a form of punishment. And why does a woman having sex purely for pleasure deserve to be punished? This is why pro-lifers are America's version of the Taliban.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

You're ok with murdering the innocent.

By law having an abortion is not murder. Nor does something that can neither think nor feel care whether you abort it or not, because... it can't think nor feel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Now what's really difficult to wrap your around is the pro-abortion crowd that's also anti-death penalty and members of PETA. Wow, there must be some heavy drug use going on around bed time. Otherwise, there would be no way that they could untangle their minds enough to get a good night's rest.

Because criminals are sentient. A fertilized egg isn't. In fact in our country a criminal has constitutional rights, whereas a fertilized egg doesn't.

dude1394 · 10-05-2012, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanL

I think it is interesting that pro-lifers think having a baby is a form of punishment. And why does a woman having sex purely for pleasure deserve to be punished? This is why pro-lifers are America's version of the Taliban.

A terrible analogy. Pro-lifers don't think that having a baby is punishment, if anyone does pro-abortionists do IMO. Babies are always a joy.

It is a life changing event however so I try to be understanding about where good people can make such a tough decision. But at the end of the day, the decision they are making is to kill a baby. The rest is rationalization.

spreedom · 10-04-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I think we all know what the other side believes. Pro-abortion... you're against taking responsibility for your actions. You're ok with murdering the innocent.

Those irresponsible rape victims just love taking the lazy route...

SeanL · 10-04-2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Those irresponsible rape victims just love taking the lazy route...

You're an idiot. Everyone with a brain knows that the woman's body just shuts down in a legitimate rape. If she is really not enjoying it she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. [/sarcasm]

Murphy3 · 10-05-2012, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Those irresponsible rape victims just love taking the lazy route...

Obviously, when I made my comment, I should have clarified to account for the .05% that are outside the norm....

spreedom · 10-05-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Obviously, when I made my comment, I should have clarified to account for the .05% that are outside the norm....

For one thing, I sincerely doubt that figure is accurate. And for another, that's a reason why it has to be legal.

dude1394 · 10-06-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

For one thing, I sincerely doubt that figure is accurate. And for another, that's a reason why it has to be legal.

It's probably less.

Murphy3 · 10-09-2012, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

For one thing, I sincerely doubt that figure is accurate. And for another, that's a reason why it has to be legal.

No it doesn't..

chumdawg · 10-05-2012, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I think we all know what the other side believes. Pro-abortion... you're against taking responsibility for your actions.

I see where you are coming from, but there are two ways of looking at that. The other way involves perceiving the choice as taking a great, great deal of responsibility.

MavsFTR · 10-04-2012, 11:45 PM

I've been keeping up with this thread, it's quite entertaining. Murphy3's argument seems to get flimsier everytime he/she posts something nonsensical.

Murphy3 · 10-05-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

I've been keeping up with this thread, it's quite entertaining. Murphy3's argument seems to get flimsier everytime he/she posts something nonsensical.

If you cannot make sense of it, that really doesn't say much for you. It's not a hard line of logic to follow.

MavsFTR · 10-05-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

If you cannot make sense of it, that really doesn't say much for you. It's not a hard line of logic to follow.

Nope. The onus is on you to clearly and coherently express your point of view. When you claim the majority of people who undergo abortions are just trying to abscond their duties, you sound derisory.

chumdawg · 10-05-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

Nope. The onus is on you to ...

You're supposed to say "anus."

Ninkobei · 10-05-2012, 09:43 AM

Romney is one hell of a sociopath. It's hilarious that he's pretty much turned his campaign and policies 180 degrees to appeal to more voters. I guess he used all that campaign money on political advising, how to appeal to the mass majority, rather than attack ads.

GermanDunk · 10-07-2012, 03:45 PM

Wow. I just saw an Obama advertisement after the Packers game. What does the minute cost there ?

Ninkobei · 10-07-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanDunk

Wow. I just saw an Obama advertisement after the Packers game. What does the minute cost there ?

Obama has a lot of campaign raised money, which gets discounts on advertising and has much less restrictions than SuperPac funds.

GermanDunk · 10-09-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

Obama has a lot of campaign raised money, which gets discounts on advertising and has much less restrictions than SuperPac funds.

Yes, been watching the last 2 innings of the Yankees-Baltimore match last morning and the ad appeared there as well. I did not expect the Leagues to grant discounts on ads. Thanks for info.