The Mavs Look Even Worse.. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

clutch#41 · 05-08-2010, 12:20 AM

if the Suns Sweep The Spurs??? right??? or is age getting to them?? ..Everytime i see Goran Dragic have a big game i jus say what if roddy woulda played since game 1!! FU Carlisle!!

Thomas86 · 05-08-2010, 12:27 AM

Goran Dragic is not a rookie....I'm mad RC didn't play Roddy more also but Dragic has been in the NBA longer than Roddy.

clutch#41 · 05-08-2010, 12:32 AM

lol why did my green dot change to red? is it bc i started a thread??? lmao
and ya hes not a rookie but roddy is already better than him as one. its jus insane with how carlisle played his rotations. and now we look AWFUL!!

Spurred1 · 05-08-2010, 12:49 AM

Dragic has been with the Suns for a few years now-developing and improving his game. It isn't like he's a scrub who suddenly came alive. He's been a solid backup to Nash for a while. Comparing Roddy to him doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Roddy hasn't played with the Mavs for years and has hardly played this year. He's had some great games and some rough ones-he's been inconsistent...a rookie.
The rotations were terrible, I agree. Roddy should have gotten more time overall, but the comparison doesn't work.

Fidel · 05-08-2010, 12:57 AM

Finally a quality new thread.

I need to chime in: if the hans has a pans then the doodle has a noodle.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-08-2010, 01:10 AM

I've been intentionally avoiding even looking at the bracket since we lost, so I didn't know the Suns even made it to the second round. And I preferred it that way.

EricaLubarsky · 05-08-2010, 01:24 AM

Dragic is a second-year player with 1,556 minutes played over two seasons

Roddy is a rookie player that has played only 729 minutes.

Dragic only played 30 more minutes his rookie year than Roddy and no one knows if (and how) Dragic would have played if the Suns had made the playoffs last year

Should Carlisle have played more Roddy in the regular season? Definitely. Should Carlisle have given the unproven rookie more playing time in the playoffs? Sure. Should Carlisle have put his eggs in Roddy's basket at the end of game 6? Sure. Is this beating a dead horse? Most definitely. Is there a single thing happening in this thread that isnt either trolling or better addressed in another thread? Hmmm

BGMaverick9 · 05-08-2010, 01:27 AM

this thread FTW

Dirknroddy · 05-08-2010, 01:39 AM

Funny thing is Caron Butler declared after the spurs series ....that spurs are the best defensive team in the league.....Suns completely destroyed their defense with pick and roll......so much for the best defense...excuses,excuses by our players...sigh

mavsfan1000 · 05-08-2010, 01:48 AM

Amazing what you can do against the Spurs defense if you have a point guard that can score. Nash and Dragic showing what Kidd couldn't do to the spurs.

Windmill360 · 05-08-2010, 01:49 AM

That's it... that's it! Fienkle is einhorn... einhorn is fienkle.. einhorn is a man!!!! Ohhhh myy god einhorn is a man!??

clutch#41 · 05-08-2010, 01:51 AM

ya the spurs-suns series aint even a series.i feel like im watching a 1st and 8th seed. jus with popovich and how the spurs have all these "rings" i dont think hes ever been sweeped in his coaching carrer????? im not sure though.

clutch#41 · 05-08-2010, 01:54 AM

jus with the fact also that the spurs are a veteran team and have been there and done that..NOBODY thought they would be getting embarrased like they are.most anaylists predicted this series going 7 games and even the spurs on top! are the mavs really that bad????

EricaLubarsky · 05-08-2010, 01:56 AM

Suns are the best team in the league at breaking down defenses. We are one of the worst despite having one of the most versatile bigs in the game. Its still an excuse, but the Suns are better at everything we were not. Even when we attacked the basket, we were hesitant because A) we were getting smacked around and B) the team wasn't confident with the plays. Refs blow whistles for confident plays.

Razor55 · 05-08-2010, 02:32 AM

Would we be 0-3 to the Suns right now if we had beat the Spurs?

kchan · 05-08-2010, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor55

Would we be 0-3 to the Suns right now if we had beat the Spurs?

Dont think so, we'd be running with the suns where Kidd, Marion, Butler, and Roddy would do better IMO.

Bayliss · 05-08-2010, 11:38 AM

Here's the major problem with SA against the Suns:

Tim Duncan has to **guard** somebody.

Against Dallas, he could basically camp in the lane on defense because Erick Dampier would not score. Duncan could put a table in the paint, spread out his dinner... eat his spaghetti alfredo and wait for a Mav (ie Dirk) to try and come in the paint.

Against the Suns? If he doesn't get out to Channing Frye on the 3 point line, then he will drill it in his face(like Frye did in Game 2). Pop already tried to hide Duncan on Grant Hill in Game 1 late in the game. The result? Grant Hill abused him for several buckets when SA was making a charge. And last night? Pop told Duncan to switch on the pick and roll. So therefore Dragic got to abuse Duncan in the 4th quarter.

It makes a world of difference when you have some players that can score and make Duncan guard somebody.

Bathouse Bear · 05-08-2010, 11:47 AM

Mavs fans are absolutely hilarious.

Keep on thinking that we can compete for an NBA championship with a point guard that cant score, cant create his own shot and cant play effective perimeter defense.

Only in Dallas.

The Spurs arent that great....and we made them look like the 2003 spurs as they exploited every single weakness of this team.

mavsfan1000 · 05-08-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Here's the major problem with SA against the Suns:

Tim Duncan has to **guard** somebody.

Against Dallas, he could basically camp in the lane on defense because Erick Dampier would not score. Duncan could put a table in the paint, spread out his dinner... eat his spaghetti alfredo and wait for a Mav (ie Dirk) to try and come in the paint.

Against the Suns? If he doesn't get out to Channing Frye on the 3 point line, then he will drill it in his face(like Frye did in Game 2). Pop already tried to hide Duncan on Grant Hill in Game 1 late in the game. The result? Grant Hill abused him for several buckets when SA was making a charge. And last night? Pop told Duncan to switch on the pick and roll. So therefore Dragic got to abuse Duncan in the 4th quarter.

It makes a world of difference when you have some players that can score and make Duncan guard somebody.

The Suns also have Steve Nash. We have no guard that can make plays like that on our team.

Bathouse Bear · 05-08-2010, 11:59 AM

Quote:

The Suns also have Steve Nash. We have no guard that can make plays like that on our team.

but we have Jason Kidd.

His intangibles, leadership and rebounding ability far outweigh what Steve Nash can do.

Did you not see that play where he bumped the Atlanta Coach?

Did you not see how Kidd performed in the 13 game winning streak.

As long as we have Jason Kidd other teams in the NBA are gonna really fear us come playoff time.

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 05-08-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

but we have Jason Kidd.

His intangibles, leadership and rebounding ability far outweigh what Steve Nash can do.

Did you not see that play where he bumped the Atlanta Coach?

Did you not see how Kidd performed in the 13 game winning streak.

As long as we have Jason Kidd other teams in the NBA are gonna really fear us come playoff time.

I agree that we need a penetrating guard, but I believe Roddy will fulfil that role. And YES, I want Kidd around because of his intangibles, leadership, defence, and rebounding abilities.

About Nash, he has never made it to an NBA finals and doesn't play any defence. He isn't exactly the recipe for an NBA championship...

mavsfan1000 · 05-08-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

but we have Jason Kidd.

His intangibles, leadership and rebounding ability far outweigh what Steve Nash can do.

Did you not see that play where he bumped the Atlanta Coach?

Did you not see how Kidd performed in the 13 game winning streak.

As long as we have Jason Kidd other teams in the NBA are gonna really fear us come playoff time.

Nope. Kidd's intangibles do not outweigh what Steve Nash does for the Suns offense. And George Hill has done more damage to the Mavs than the Suns. And both Nash and Kidd were the main people guarding Hill.

CadBane · 05-08-2010, 04:48 PM

Intangibles are an excuse for old veterans that bring little to the table. Rasheed Wallace brings "intangibles" and "veteran presence". Oh wait, no he doesn't. He's a washed up scrub. I'm not saying Kidd is a washed up scrub...but "intangibles" don't mean shit when you're putting up 8/7 in the playoffs on 30%.

Me, I'll take the "tangibles".

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-08-2010, 05:10 PM

Can we rename this the Mavs Vent Thread? Seriously, post any Mavs frustration here so that we don't have to hear about the same things in every other thread.

tcat075 · 05-08-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Here's the major problem with SA against the Suns:

Tim Duncan has to **guard** somebody.

Against Dallas, he could basically camp in the lane on defense because Erick Dampier would not score. Duncan could put a table in the paint, spread out his dinner... eat his spaghetti alfredo and wait for a Mav (ie Dirk) to try and come in the paint.

Against the Suns? If he doesn't get out to Channing Frye on the 3 point line, then he will drill it in his face(like Frye did in Game 2). Pop already tried to hide Duncan on Grant Hill in Game 1 late in the game. The result? Grant Hill abused him for several buckets when SA was making a charge. And last night? Pop told Duncan to switch on the pick and roll. So therefore Dragic got to abuse Duncan in the 4th quarter.

It makes a world of difference when you have some players that can score and make Duncan guard somebody.

Agreed. Its not that Duncan is bad defensively. He's declined, but he's at least average. But he's older, can't exert as much energy, and he isn't the same defender he was. He's going to struggle if he has to play hard on both sides.

KINGBEEF · 05-08-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Agreed. Its not that Duncan is bad defensively. He's declined, but he's at least average. But he's older, can't exert as much energy, and he isn't the same defender he was. He's going to struggle if he has to play hard on both sides.

and he seems to miss a lot of free throws

Spurred1 · 05-09-2010, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

jus with the fact also that the spurs are a veteran team and have been there and done that..NOBODY thought they would be getting embarrased like they are.most anaylists predicted this series going 7 games and even the spurs on top! are the mavs really that bad????

No, but it is amazing what a team with multiple scorers can do. Just about all of the Suns can shoot and score. Frye/Richardson/Nash can all be deadly from the three point line. Dragic is too, apparently. Hill is covering Manu very well and Parker is playing like a pansy and hogging the ball instead of passing to Tim. If Tim is in the paint, being covered by Amare, he needs to get the ball. Amare does not defend well at all.
Hill is missing wide open jumpers-Nash actually has little to do with it.
The Mavs don't have multiple deadly shooters-there's Dirk, Kidd(if left wide open), and MAYBE Jet. But Jet has been shit this year and in playoffs past. So I expect nothing from him. Damp can't score to save his life and Marion struggles with the easiest layups. Haywood can score, but doesn't seem to get the ball enough. Guess the Mavs aren't used to a center that doesn't fumble the ball.
So there are three scorers on the Mavs-Dirk, Butler, and Roddy. RC didn't play them together often at all, so the Spurs usually just needed to worry about Dirk or Butler.
Suns have a ton of offensive players for the Spurs to cover-and they can't cover them effectively at all. What they should do is try to focus more on the perimeter players and not worry so much about Amare. He can't carry the team.

Thomas86 · 05-09-2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurred1

No, but it is amazing what a team with multiple scorers can do. Just about all of the Suns can shoot and score. Frye/Richardson/Nash can all be deadly from the three point line. Dragic is too, apparently. Hill is covering Manu very well and Parker is playing like a pansy and hogging the ball instead of passing to Tim. If Tim is in the paint, being covered by Amare, he needs to get the ball. Amare does not defend well at all.
Hill is missing wide open jumpers-Nash actually has little to do with it.
The Mavs don't have multiple deadly shooters-there's Dirk, Kidd(if left wide open), and MAYBE Jet. But Jet has been shit this year and in playoffs past. So I expect nothing from him. Damp can't score to save his life and Marion struggles with the easiest layups. Haywood can score, but doesn't seem to get the ball enough. Guess the Mavs aren't used to a center that doesn't fumble the ball.
So there are three scorers on the Mavs-Dirk, Butler, and Roddy. RC didn't play them together often at all, so the Spurs usually just needed to worry about Dirk or Butler.
Suns have a ton of offensive players for the Spurs to cover-and they can't cover them effectively at all. What they should do is try to focus more on the perimeter players and not worry so much about Amare. He can't carry the team.

It's looking like Amare don't even have to a full game for the Suns to beat the Spurs because of the Spurs ON and OFF defense, the Spurs getting shut down by the Suns say's alot about the Spurs more than it does the Suns and I mean alot.

KINGBEEF · 05-09-2010, 07:48 PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Roddy could've handled the spurs all by himself. He has more speed and endurance. Because if Dragic "The Dragon" can do this, I know Roddy B could. Dang Carlisle, why?

tcat075 · 05-09-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

and he seems to miss a lot of free throws

He'd shoot 90% if he was allowed to shoot the from the baseline extended...

KINGBEEF · 05-09-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

He'd shoot 90% if he was allowed to shoot the from the baseline extended...

i know right... lol

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-09-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Roddy could've handled the spurs all by himself. He has more speed and endurance. Because if Dragic "The Dragon" can do this, I know Roddy B could. Dang Carlisle, why?

Which I think is why I lie on the side of the should-have-played Roddy crowd. The Mavs couldn't just have used Roddy....they needed him. If the rookie shows he can be the best player on the floor...you don't bench him. Not for Terry. No way. I've thought this in my head a million times, and I truly believe Carlisle would have saved the series by playing him. Why? Simple. The Mavs needed Roddy. Reggie Miller was calling him Baby Flash because he was playing like it.

I know that Carlisle would be the coach to go with Terry, and I'm not surprised by that. That doesn't change the fact that he needed Roddy. The franchise really depended on it. At some point you gotta drop the rookie card, especially when he made rookie history with his shooting numbers. Based on the way the rest of the team was playing...they needed him. It really is that simple for me. I won't harp on about it though...those are pretty much my final thoughts on the matter. Thank you and goodnight!

JCmasta · 05-10-2010, 12:28 AM

The Spurs weren't anything special, just another team that benefited from facing off against our soft, mentally weak basketball team.

I mean really, what happened coaching wise in that first series was shameful and Cuban wants to bring this nutjob back for another season? Better be looking for another man behind the scenes because heads have to roll after this debacle.

dude1394 · 05-10-2010, 02:21 AM

The problem with Rick was that he played this like a baseball manager who plays the percentages down the line. He wasn't able to see past the stats to see what was going on.

It has made his leash much,much shorter...both with the owner, the players and especially fans who tend to be much more kneejerk since they have no responsibility for anything.

Usually Lurkin · 05-10-2010, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

The problem with Rick was that he played this like a baseball manager who plays the percentages down the line. He wasn't able to see past the stats to see what was going on..

This is the mistake that Avery says he made in the GS series, that the stats told him small ball was the best bet.

Budapest Maverick · 05-10-2010, 09:58 AM

I wish Carlisle would have played the percentages... Every single advanced metric showed that we are a superior team with Roddy on the floor, yet he still played Barea, only because of one reason, he doesn't trust rookies. And it's not only we, Mavs fans who thinks that was our downfall in this series. I read numerous posts from other teams's fans, and even sport writers, and commentators just shook their head in disbelief. It may have been one of biggest coaching mistakes of all-time, and if Roddy becomes the player, most of us envisons him to be... It will become obvious for everyone.

Bathouse Bear · 05-10-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

The Spurs weren't anything special, just another team that benefited from facing off against our soft, mentally weak basketball team.

This

WayOutWest · 05-10-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

ya the spurs-suns series aint even a series.i feel like im watching a 1st and 8th seed. jus with popovich and how the spurs have all these "rings" i dont think hes ever been sweeped in his coaching carrer????? im not sure though.

The Spurs were swept in the 2001 playoffs.

fluid.forty.one · 05-10-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

This is the mistake that Avery says he made in the GS series, that the stats told him small ball was the best bet.

Yeah but Avery doesn't point out his inability to see what's going on... he's just putting the blame on the stat guy who gave him that information. It's shameful.

And dude is spot on. That is EXACTLY what Rick did. Ugh.

Usually Lurkin · 05-10-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Yeah but Avery doesn't point out his inability to see what's going on... he's just putting the blame on the stat guy who gave him that information. It's shameful.

I don't care.

Quote:

And dude is spot on. That is EXACTLY what Rick did. Ugh.

If that's what really happened (Budapest has a point for rebuttal, though), then it's a team problem that won't get fixed till either 1) The Mavs fire their statisticians or 2) Playoff basketball starts acting more like the statistics say it should.

Until then, in April and May, we'll all be screaming at the Mavericks coach to do the obvious thing (play a center!, give it to Dirk!, play the guy who is scoring against this team!), which will be the obvious thing to everyone but the one guy who blindly follows whatever arcane statistic is getting fed into the coaching circle.