2020-2021 Season thread

[EricaLubarsky]

Key dates
Nov 30 - Players show up for testing
Dec 1 - 10 - camp
Dec 12 - @Milwaukee
Dec 14 - @Milwaukee
Dec 17 - Minnesota
Dec 22 - Regular season begins
March 5-10 - Allstar break
May 18-21 - play in tournament
May 22 - Playoffs start

Roster
---regular roster---
1) KP
2) THJ
3) Johnson
4) Richardson
5) Powell
6) Kleber
7) Doncic
8) DFS
9) Boban
10) Brunson
11) Burke
12) Green (guaranteed 1st rounder)
13) Iwundu
---inactive---
14) Barea
15) WCS
---two-way players-----
16) Tyrell Terry
17) Tyler Bey
---camp fodder not here when the season starts---
18) Devonte Patterson
19) Freddie Gillespie
20) Nate Hinton

Preseason Schedule
12/12 - @Milwaukee
12/14 - @Milwaukee
12/17 - Minnesota

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

Thanks for posting. Should be very interesting. I would like to see the rookies get some PT this year, but maybe that seems unlikely, with no camp, and with quite a few new players who are pretty good (e.g., JRich, Iwundu, JJohnson). Do we know that Tyrell Terry and Tyler Bey will be 2-way contracts? How long will we own their rights if we sign them to a 2-way contract? Obviously we would like to lock up these 2 guys for 4 years, if we can. thanks

[MFFL]

I really doubt the rookies get much PT but at least being with the big league club all year will pay dividends

All I ask is that ONE of the 3 rookies turns out to be a rotation regular. Don't care which one. Asking for two or more of them to be rotation guys would be greedy

[Dallas41]

why would WCS be inactive?

I think he's going to clearly out play Powell this year.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

why would WCS be inactive?

I think he's going to clearly out play Powell this year.

It's literally a list of players. Who should I put as inactive?

[NeedlesKane]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

why would WCS be inactive?

I think he's going to clearly out play Powell this year.

Exactly what I was thinking! lmao

[EricaLubarsky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv7t972bBJQ

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv7t972bBJQ

And of course Stephen E thinks the Clippers are still the biggest threat to the Lakers

Is anyone ever been more of a front runner than Stephen E?

[rimrocker]

I tend to agree with Steven A. but Mavs have several months to prove him wrong.
Clips definitely have the stars and a good supporting cast and on paper I don't think there is any question they are better than Mavs.

I do not agree with him that it isn't even close. Mavs have the upside to get incredibly better to compete with them and Clips are right there as far as I'm concerned. If I remember correctly the Mavs were damn close to winning 2 of the Lakers games and if healthy and another year under their belt, they should be that much better. Mavs superstar is another year closer to prime, Lakers superstar is another year further from prime. The big difference is KP vs AD. Mavs will close on that gap as Luka matures and LeBron fades, the question is how long that will take.

[GQ2003]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I tend to agree with Steven A. but Mavs have several months to prove him wrong.
Clips definitely have the stars and a good supporting cast and on paper I don't think there is any question they are better than Mavs.

I do not agree with him that it isn't even close. Mavs have the upside to get incredibly better to compete with them and Clips are right there as far as I'm concerned. If I remember correctly the Mavs were damn close to winning 2 of the Lakers games and if healthy and another year under their belt, they should be that much better. Mavs superstar is another year closer to prime, Lakers superstar is another year further from prime. The big difference is KP vs AD. Mavs will close on that gap as Luka matures and LeBron fades, the question is how long that will take.

I could be wrong but I think the gap between the mavs and clippers has definitely been closed. The reason we struggled so much with the Clippers and their Eastern conference doppelganger (Boston) and even the Knicks for that matter is because we had no playable wings outside of DFS. Our offseason additions make us a completely different team. The Clippers lost Harrell, Jamychal Green and Landry Shamet but added Kennard and Ibaka. I imagine the Clippers aren't done but I look at them about the same as last year.

The mavs lost Curry and non-contributors like Wright, Jackson & MKG while adding Richardson, Johnson, Iwundu, Brunson, Powell, WCS and KP to the group that pushed them to 6 games in the bubble. That's not even mentioning the rookies. If they gel under Carlisle and stay healthy, I definitely don't see them as better than us. I see both teams about the same but Dallas has better coaching and young talent that will get better with time.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by MFFL

And of course Stephen E thinks the Clippers are still the biggest threat to the Lakers

Is anyone ever been more of a front runner than Stephen E?

Until proven otherwise, Clippers are the biggest thread. That doesn't mean they will meet them in the WCF but they have Kawhi on their team and they have built a solid team around him.

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpN-...nnel=RiroBalls
I agree with this video - If Giannis leaves Bucks, Mavs are probably the favorites. Also, go back and look at some of the glowing comments by Giannis after Luka was drafted and then a year ago - Giannis thinks Luka is maybe the most talented player in the NBA. I like what the Mavs did - really added 3D wings, etc., became much better team, but i think we have a path to have a max slot for Giannis (easiest is if JRich declines player option).

[NeedlesKane]

Why do you have Nate Hinton as camp fodder, rather than two-way? As for now, I am nearly certain he's a two-way player.

Also why do you even have inactives, seriously?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

Why do you have Nate Hinton as camp fodder, rather than two-way? As for now, I am nearly certain he's a two-way player.

Also why do you even have inactives, seriously?

I’ll just not post at all. K Bye.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I’ll just not post at all. K Bye.

If you stop posting, there's not much reason to hang out here.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by G-Man

If you stop posting, there's not much reason to hang out here.

Get a room.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Get a room.

And some candles, and a tarp

[SMC0007]

Where's Roby on the list?

[NeedlesKane]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Where's Roby on the list?

Isn't he with the Thunder?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

Isn't he with the Thunder?

What about Erik Dampier then?

[NeedlesKane]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What about Erik Dampier then?

You mean Erika (formally Erick) Dampier?

[NeedlesKane]

@EricaLubarsky I think I missed something. I didn't mean to upset you. My apologies.

Also I ended it with "seriously" because I did not think SMC0007 was being serious with his posts.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by NeedlesKane

@EricaLubarsky I think I missed something. I didn't mean to upset you. My apologies.

Also I ended it with "seriously" because I did not think SMC0007 was being serious with his posts.

I don't think EL was being serious either. Fwiw.

[tap2390]

Calling it now, Hardaway Jr. is going to have a hell of a season. The man has been putting in nonstop work. I think he’s out to earn a HUGE contract,

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Calling it now, Hardaway Jr. is going to have a hell of a season. The man has been putting in nonstop work. I think he’s out to earn a HUGE contract,

Well by all means let's do it, I just hope he has been tooling up his defense more. Good for him and good for us.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Calling it now, Hardaway Jr. is going to have a hell of a season. The man has been putting in nonstop work. I think he’s out to earn a HUGE contract,

Wouldn't surprise me but I do remember there was a lot of talk about his workouts last off-season. He might just be a hard worker.
I'm not sure if Richardson will help THJ's game or take away from it.
If those two click (in the SL I assume), the Mavs would become very balanced and serious contenders. I just hope Richardson doesn't disappoint as much as Wright did last season.

[FollowedKPtodallas]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Calling it now, Hardaway Jr. is going to have a hell of a season. The man has been putting in nonstop work. I think he’s out to earn a HUGE contract,

I'm sorry I can't disagree more. No way THJ shoots 39% this year from 3.

[NeedlesKane]

Originally Posted by FollowedKPtodallas

I'm sorry I can't disagree more. No way THJ shoots 39% this year from 3.

A little more likely than Nate Robinson resuming his professional boxing career.

[Heezzi]

Originally Posted by FollowedKPtodallas

I'm sorry I can't disagree more. No way THJ shoots 39% this year from 3.

He's rhe primary shooter now, he's not shooting that high.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Heezzi

He's rhe primary shooter now, he's not shooting that high.

I skimmed the last page, so hopefully I’m not misunderstanding the conversation, but:

Go check the attempts...THJ was the primary shooter last year, tbh. He shot 40% on over 500 attempts (7.2 per game, 8.8 per 36). The only shooters who made a bigger impact at such a high volume were Robinson, Reddick and Hield. That’s ELITE company.

If you think it might have been an outlier, and that he won’t be as good this season, that’s fair. But, it is inaccurate to say that Curry was more important to the Mavs last season than THJ. Curry is a better shooter, but he’s even more one dimensional than THJ. And, for whatever reason, Curry doesn’t seem to be able to get enough shots off to make his one dimension work for his team in as meaningful of a way. Maybe it’s just his size, maybe his release is too slow (it’s definitely not as quick as THJ’s) or maybe he’s just selfishly concerned about his percentages.

I love Curry, and I was sorry to see him go, but the team’s only real trade assets were three value players on value contracts: Curry, DFS and Kleber. Of those three, Curry is unquestionably the one I feel was least crucial moving forward. To get Richardson AND a pick (Tyler Bey!!) for him was a master stroke, imo.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

I skimmed the last page, so hopefully I’m not misunderstanding the conversation, but:

Go check the attempts...THJ was the primary shooter last year, tbh. He shot 40% on over 500 attempts (7.2 per game, 8.8 per 36). The only shooters who made a bigger impact at such a high volume were Robinson, Reddick and Hield. That’s ELITE company.

If you think it might have been an outlier, and that he won’t be as good this season, that’s fair. But, it is inaccurate to say that Curry was more important to the Mavs last season than THJ. Curry is a better shooter, but he’s even more one dimensional than THJ. And, for whatever reason, Curry doesn’t seem to be able to get enough shots off to make his one dimension work for his team in as meaningful of a way. Maybe it’s just his size, maybe his release is too slow (it’s definitely not as quick as THJ’s) or maybe he’s just selfishly concerned about his percentages.

I love Curry, and I was sorry to see him go, but the team’s only real trade assets were three value players on value contracts: Curry, DFS and Kleber. Of those three, Curry is unquestionably the one I feel was least crucial moving forward. To get Richardson AND a pick (Tyler Bey!!) for him was a master stroke, imo.

This/Must spread rep.

THJ was tied for 20th in 3pt FGA and shot 40% from three so only 19 other guys in the entire league shot more (Doncic was one). It's not like he was averaging 2 attempts and now we're going to ask him to do 7. He had 7.2 attempts and I fully expect him to average 6-8 again this year. He also averaged 40% on those 7.2 attempts. Thats a huge number of attempts and a great percentage.

So let's look at the gains/losses.

Guys we lost
Wright 0.6 made, 1.7 attempted 37.0%
Jackson 0.7 made, 2.5 attempted, 29.4%
Curry 2.3 made 5.0 attempted 45.2%
---------------------------------------------
Total loss of 3.6 made threes, 9.2 attempted threes 39.1%

Guys we gained
Burke 2.0 made 4.6 attempted 43.2%
Johnson 1.2 made 3.3 attempted 37.0%
Richardson 1.5 made, 4.5 attempted 34.1%
-----------------------------------------------
Total added 4.7 made threes, 12.4 attempted threes 38%

Guys we still don't know about, but who may be able to shoot
Green - rookie 3/D guy. Was 36% in college (67% in last month of the season. Incredibly efficient in catch and shoot)
Terry - rookie sharpshooter. Was 41% in college (top three in efficiency with catch and shoot shots)
WCS - barely attempted a shot, but worked on it and it may have "clicked"
----------------------------------------------------
Total added: too early to tell. Rookies may not play. WCS may not perform outside of the gym.

Net change: +1.1 made threes, +3.4 attempts -1.1% efficiency

I'd wager $100 that Richardson shoots better this year than last and the combination of Richardson/Johnson/Burke in 2020-2021 outshoot Jackson/Curry/Wright in 2019-2020, but even if they don't, I see zero reason why THJ would have to dramatically take on a higher three-point load than last year. We actually got more guys comfortable shooting the three and they're almost as efficient as a whole. Plus we'll have Brunson back (36%) and eventually KP will return who shot 6 threes a game and made over 50% of them in the playoffs (38% in the bubble on 7 attempts a game). There are actually only a couple of guys on the whole roster who can't shoot a three (Boban and Powell are the only two guys on the roster who can't hit 30%)

Returning guys. 40%=specialist (eFG%=60%) 35%= good (eFG% 52.5%) 30%=baseline efficiency to keep defenders honest (eFG% 45%)
THJ - 2.9makes 7.2attempts 39.8%
DFS - 1.6makes 4.3 attempts 37.6%
Kleber - 1.6makes 4.3attempts 37.3%
Brunson - 0.8makes 2.1attempts 35.8%

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

I love Curry, and I was sorry to see him go, but the team’s only real trade assets were three value players on value contracts: Curry, DFS and Kleber. Of those three, Curry is unquestionably the one I feel was least crucial moving forward. To get Richardson AND a pick (Tyler Bey!!) for him was a master stroke, imo.

The Mavs managed to significantly improve the roster AND accumulate more trade assets without giving up anything crucial or taking on bad salary. That's pretty incredible. And people around the basketball world are talking about Terry being the biggest steal of the draft and how he could have been a lottery pick. Yeah, this was one hell of an offseason for the Mavs, in a situation where I don't think any of us were expecting much.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by FollowedKPtodallas

I'm sorry I can't disagree more. No way THJ shoots 39% this year from 3.

He shot 40% from three last year. Why would 39% be impossible? Because Curry (who played in our second unit) left? I don't get the logic there.

[rimrocker]

We have more than addressed defense needs but I'm wondering if we comprised some bench scoring in the process.

Most likely starters imo:
Luka/THJ/JRich/DFS/KP

Rotation bench players:
Brunson/Burke/Iwundu (or Green)/Maxi/Powell/WCS

Situational:
Boban/Johnson/Barea/Green (or Iwundu)/Terry

Brunson and Burke will have to carry the bench load offensively.

[NeedlesKane]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

We have more than addressed defense needs but I'm wondering if we comprised some bench scoring in the process.

Most likely starters imo:
Luka/THJ/JRich/DFS/KP

Rotation bench players:
Brunson/Burke/Iwundu (or Green)/Maxi/Powell/WCS

Situational:
Boban/Johnson/Barea/Green (or Iwundu)/Terry

Brunson and Burke will have to carry the bench load offensively.

Compromised bench scoring by giving up Curry? He's the only one we lost who I feel like really contributed anything to the team. Next best player to him that we lost? Prolly Delon Wright and his 6.9 ppg in 21.5 mpg unless JJ Barea doesn't make the cut. His contributions offensively are better last season with 7.7 ppg in 15.5 mpg. Oh wait... Justin Jackson was better than him offensively with 5.5 ppg in 16.1 mpg. Lee? Reaves? Cleveland? Kidd-Gilchrist? I feel like none of those guys really contributed anything.

Biggest loss is easily Curry's 12.4 ppg in 24.6 mpg.

Mavericks played 75 games last year. Curry played 64, Wright played 73, and Jackson played 65. These guys were at least dependable.

18,175 minutes played by the team in those 75 games. Those 3 played 4,191 minutes. So about 23.06% of the time those guys were on the floor. Also they put up 22.06 ppg over the course of the full season combined. I didn't just add their ppg together. Otherwise it'd be 24.8 ppg and not indicative of their team production collectively over the course of the full season.

Can 3 of the new guys put up a combined 22.06 ppg in 55.87 mpg? If not, I hope they provide some lockdown defense. Regardless, I am excited.

Edit: I really think that Richardson, Iwundu, and Johnson alone can reproduce that offensive production. In fact, I think that they'll be slightly better over the course of the full season but will likely struggle to put together as many minutes.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

We have more than addressed defense needs but I'm wondering if we comprised some bench scoring in the process.

Most likely starters imo:
Luka/THJ/JRich/DFS/KP

Rotation bench players:
Brunson/Burke/Iwundu (or Green)/Maxi/Powell/WCS

Situational:
Boban/Johnson/Barea/Green (or Iwundu)/Terry

Brunson and Burke will have to carry the bench load offensively.

Do you need bench scoring with that starting lineup? Seriously, if we aren't burying teams in the first quarter, then something has gone terribly wrong.

But I do think it will take a small hit. Still, that starting lineup is moy bonito.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Is the stuff about WCS outperforming Powell a joke I missed? Or is it a belief that Powell will be so bad coming off injury that the literal last man we signed in free agency(maybe Iwundu is actually the last) will be better than him?

Not being rude, just asking as I've missed a lot over the last few weeks not being on here as much. We chased the corpse of Gasol over WCS before bringing him back. And DP was praised for working harder than anybody in the bubble last year despite his injury. He has been routinely praised as the hardest worker on the roster ever since he got here. Edit- Plus the obvious... he is highly highly efficient when healthy on offense. So it would have to be glaringly obvious for him to be beat out by WCS IMO.

So is the belief that he will be like the corpse of Wesley Matthews once he's healthy and so bad he's going to be out of the league soon or that WCS is basically overlooked by the entire NBA and he's just flat out better? Or am I missing a sarcastic joke?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Is the stuff about WCS outperforming Powell a joke I missed? Or is it a belief that Powell will be so bad coming off injury that the literal last man we signed in free agency(maybe Iwundu is actually the last) will be better than him?

Not being rude, just asking as I've missed a lot over the last few weeks not being on here as much. We chased the corpse of Gasol over WCS before bringing him back. And DP was praised for working harder than anybody in the bubble last year despite his injury. He has been routinely praised as the hardest worker on the roster ever since he got here. Edit- Plus the obvious... he is highly highly efficient when healthy on offense. So it would have to be glaringly obvious for him to be beat out by WCS IMO.

So is the belief that he will be like the corpse of Wesley Matthews once he's healthy and so bad he's going to be out of the league soon or that WCS is basically overlooked by the entire NBA and he's just flat out better? Or am I missing a sarcastic joke?

That's what I would think. I don't think Powell will be worthless, but players just don't come back to form after that injury. Esp players that rely on athleticism the way Powell does.

And I think the Gasol thing was more to please the fans versus actual production. Plus, we need more vets, and I'm sure they took at look at Milsap as well.

And it should be said that nobody is saying WCS is going to average 20/10, but he was productive in his limited minutes last season. No reason to think he won't be this season as well.

But quite frankly, I feel like people are even more disillusioned about Powell even before the injury. I know he does well in some advanced stats and is a killer roll man, but he is still a very limited role player. Don't want to hate on him though as I want all Mavs to do well (even poor Jackson and Wright before they were sent away).

[Bryan_Wilson]

I've never been the biggest Powell fan either but WCS would have to have a major impact on the game to supplant him. And the only way I see that happening is if Powell is hampered... which means whether it's WCS or Powell we will need a better option there in a year as neither will be what you want from a guy who gets consistent minutes on a contender.

[GQ2003]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Is the stuff about WCS outperforming Powell a joke I missed? Or is it a belief that Powell will be so bad coming off injury that the literal last man we signed in free agency(maybe Iwundu is actually the last) will be better than him?

Not being rude, just asking as I've missed a lot over the last few weeks not being on here as much. We chased the corpse of Gasol over WCS before bringing him back. And DP was praised for working harder than anybody in the bubble last year despite his injury. He has been routinely praised as the hardest worker on the roster ever since he got here. Edit- Plus the obvious... he is highly highly efficient when healthy on offense. So it would have to be glaringly obvious for him to be beat out by WCS IMO.

So is the belief that he will be like the corpse of Wesley Matthews once he's healthy and so bad he's going to be out of the league soon or that WCS is basically overlooked by the entire NBA and he's just flat out better? Or am I missing a sarcastic joke?

Its a couple things that has started this conversation. The first part is optimism that WCS, with his second year in a system that really highlights guys with his skillset, will allow him to realize some of the potential that made him a top 10 lottery pick. Remember, he was brought in mid-year with no training camp and also didn't come to the bubble. Plus if we're being honest, he was already better than DP on the defensive end regardless of how hard DP played.

The second part of this theory is that DP coming off a serious achilles injury won't come back from injury as the same player. DP had two things that basically made up his game, his athleticism and his effort. An achilles injury isn't an acl or ankle and is known for taking away the athleticism from those that suffer the injury. If DP comes back as a below the rim player then he won't have nearly the impact on the floor that a WCS would have regardless of how hard DP works.