Mavs get Porzingis

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

*sigh* At this point, I'm ready to dump him for just about ANYTHING and be done with it. Keeping him just feels like sunk cost.

Do you, in fact, understand the difference between a 'sunk cost' and a 'distressed asset'?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Do you, in fact, understand the difference between a 'sunk cost' and a 'distressed asset'?

I'm certainly open to a new perspective on this, but I think sunk cost fits better where the Mavs stand. We are not getting value paid on this guy and the vibe to me is they aren't willing to let him go for much less. We don't need immediate influx for him so we're just sitting on it hoping he increases his value to better justify what we spent and at that point unless it's still not a great fit here, then we get much more for him.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Do you, in fact, understand the difference between a 'sunk cost' and a 'distressed asset'?

It could be either.

The Mavs must feel they have a sunk cost dilemma because they have to decide to continue with him or try to salvage what they can. They most likely won't get the same type of return on him as they invested no matter how long they hold on to him imo. He might not become a complete sunk cost but if they have to give up assets to move him that is exactly what he'd be. This could be a much worse version of TAW if his injuries become so severe that he can't play, or worse, play and make us a worse team.

However if they feel there is high probability they can rehab him back to what he was or better, he'd be merely a distressed asset in his current state.
So you are correct that he is a distressed asset at the moment but the Mavs are certainly in a sunk cost dilemma because it appears that every injury no matter how severe is decreasing his value both on the floor and as a trade asset.

At least that is my understanding of the situation.

[turin]

Originally Posted by tap2390

This is some major conjecture with no basis in reality. We have no idea what Luka’s thoughts regarding his coaches and teammates are. He definitely deserves a major say as a once in a lifetime franchise guy, however to state that either we keep him or Carlisle is pure speculation.

I posted an OPINION. Believe what you want. Luka is a winner, and he'll never have problems earning money in his NBA career. He strikes me more as a guy who wants to win and enjoy doing it. The money will take care of itself. Careers have a limited shelf-life. If one has aspirations to be an all-time great, then it is up to that individual to make sure he does the best he can to put himself in the best situation possible imo. For Luka, is that with the Mavs? I have my doubts. People seem to conveniently forget how great Luka is. The past couple of years, guys look a whole lot better for having played with Luka than had there been some other point guard on the team. The same can be said for RC and his coaching. His coaching sure looks a whole lot better when he's got a budding superstar in Luka as well as when he had prime Dirk. jmho

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Do you, in fact, understand the difference between a 'sunk cost' and a 'distressed asset'?

Do you, in fact, know the difference between asking an honest question in the interest of discussion and being a condescending ass?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by tap2390

This is some major conjecture with no basis in reality. We have no idea what Luka’s thoughts regarding his coaches and teammates are. He definitely deserves a major say as a once in a lifetime franchise guy, however to state that either we keep him or Carlisle is pure speculation.

This.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by MFFL

Still think it's a fake rumor?




NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
·
4h
"No matter what you’re hearing, they say keep an eye on Kristaps Porzingis. He is somebody that Dallas is shopping. Because of salary, injuries, and as one scout said 'high maintenance issues.'"

- Marc J. Spears
(Via ESPN’s The Jump)

Of course i still think it because Woj or Shams STILL didnt write anything about it. I couldnt care less what Spears says on the waste of time of a show like "The Jump".

Again, its IMPOSSIBLE that the Mavs are shopping KP without Woj and Sham knowing and writing about it.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Of course i still think it because Woj or Shams STILL didnt write anything about it. I couldnt care less what Spears says on the waste of time of a show like "The Jump".

Again, its IMPOSSIBLE that the Mavs are shopping KP without Woj and Sham knowing and writing about it.

They actually had woj on the jump a few days ago.

and while he didn't say it was true when asked about this rumor he didn't exactly shoot it down either.

He basically just said something to the effects that he doesn't expect the Mavs to stand pat.

But as I mentioned earlier I think the Mavs should keep KP and explore getting themselves a more consistent 2nd or 3rd option to pair with him and Luka.

I now Buddy Heild has struggled this year and he might be the only realistic option they can get. I'm just not sure with the way he's been playing if that would help the Mavs at all.

[Dallas41]

I also found a few more interesting tweets


.
@RicBucher
— Dallas can't contend for a title with the Luka-Porziņģis pairing:

"If they can move Porziņģis, I say you do it. I do not want to grow old with Kristaps Porziņģis' contract."



Mahomeboy Russ
@Home_Brodie23

Replying to
@undisputed
and
@RicBucher
Ric speaking facts foreal🗣Hundred points symbol Porzingis ain’t working out wit Luka and is way too 3pt shot reliant for a 7’3 big man so
@mcuban
might as well just send him our way
@danielrainge
Shamrocksince Luka likes Kemba’s smilling a$$ I think Man shruggingGrinning face with smiling eyesGrinning

[sefant77]

Ric Bucher, one of the biggest clowns...
Oh help

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Of course i still think it because Woj or Shams STILL didnt write anything about it. I couldnt care less what Spears says on the waste of time of a show like "The Jump".

Again, its IMPOSSIBLE that the Mavs are shopping KP without Woj and Sham knowing and writing about it.

It is very possible if certain reporters are being used as mouthpieces for KP's brother for example

[SMC0007]

Welp. Sign KP to 10 more years. Double super max him.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Welp. Sign KP to 10 more years. Double super max him.

I am beginning to think that Cuban will have to make a decision between Porzingis and Carlisle soon

[Thespiralgoeson]

For all the talk about firing Carlisle and how utterly horrible and incompetent Cuban and Donnie are, and we're going to lose Luka because of their incompetence... I honestly think almost everything negative about the Mavs' prospects can be traced back to Porzingis.

A few weeks ago, the Mavs seemed like they were in freefall, and it seemed like Carlisle has lost the team. I said then that if things didn't improve soon, it might be time to move on. But guess what? Things improved. The Mavs have won 7 of their last 9 games, and morale seems to be infinitely better. You can't tell me coaching has nothing to do with this. Yes, Luka carries the team on his back, but Carlisle must be doing something right also.

As for the roster problems and the team being lousy outside of Luka... well, again, I feel like it comes back to Porzingis not being the guy we need him to be. We can complain about how horrible it was for the Mavs to have made the trade for KP in the first place, but that's totally revisionist. Everyone on this forum and in the entire basketball world thought at the time that it was a genius move for the Mavs and yet another idiotic disaster for the Knicks. We gave up two draft picks, and a guy who didn't fit with Luka, wasn't part of our long terms plans, and has pretty much washed out of the NBA entirely. The KP trade was NOT seen as some high-risk, swing-for-the-fences, all-in type of deal. Quite the opposite. It seemed incredibly low risk at the time. Signing KP to the max in retrospect seems like a disaster, but again, not so at the time.

I'm not saying the MBT has done some kind of amazing job- the Josh Green pick looks like a waste- but they've hardly been terrible either. The truth is, building an NBA title contender is really frigging hard, and requires a LOT of good luck. The Mavs, sadly, ran into some really bad luck with Porzingis.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm not saying the MBT has done some kind of amazing job- the Josh Green pick looks like a waste- but they've hardly been terrible either. The truth is, building an NBA title contender is really frigging hard, and requires a LOT of good luck. The Mavs, sadly, ran into some really bad luck with Porzingis.

Why was Green a bad pick?

I'm just curious as to why people feel this way.

My feeling is he's a good player very active on defense and does a great job on offense in terms of moving without the ball.

I felt like when he was getting minutes doing the covid situation he actually got better game by game.

But IMO I just don't think RC gave him that much rope as a rookie. On most other rosters I think he would be getting 10-12 MPG every night.

I fully expect Green to turn out to be a solid NBA rotation player down the road.

As for KP, I just think it's a matter of him staying healthy and also the Mavs need to keep him engaged offensively early in games. He has a tendency to venture outside all game if the Mavs aren't calling set plays for him.

That Brooklyn game was more like a blue print as to how he should be used but I know because this a 3-point happy team we may not see KP utilized that way moving forward.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Why was Green a bad pick?

I'm just curious as to why people feel this way.

My feeling is he's a good player very active on defense and does a great job on offense in terms of moving without the ball.

I felt like when he was getting minutes doing the covid situation he actually got better game by game.

But IMO I just don't think RC gave him that much rope as a rookie. On most other rosters I think he would be getting 10-12 MPG every night.

I fully expect Green to turn out to be a solid NBA rotation player down the road.

As for KP, I just think it's a matter of him staying healthy and also the Mavs need to keep him engaged offensively early in games. He has a tendency to venture outside all game if the Mavs aren't calling set plays for him.

That Brooklyn game was more like a blue print as to how he should be used but I know because this a 3-point happy team we may not see KP utilized that way moving forward.

I'll be honest. I haven't seen him play more than the rare minute or two here and there he got for the Mavs this season. He might end up being a fine player. I have no idea. I just know that DNP's in the G-league don't look good, particularly when other players drafted after him are thriving.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

As for KP, I just think it's a matter of him staying healthy

That has always been KP's problem, and I'm convinced that it always will be. He has missed, what, 40% of his NBA career? I hope I'm wrong, but so far in his Mavs' career, my most pessimistic expectations for his health have been exceeded. Some guys are just injury prone. Ridiculously tall guys like him usually are. (And anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Seriously, I'm not having that argument again with anyone.)

And I'm afraid that Bubble KP is probably gone forever. I just don't think you can have surgery on both knees without losing some mobility.

[taibumu]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

That has always been KP's problem, and I'm convinced that it always will be. He has missed, what, 40% of his NBA career? I hope I'm wrong, but so far in his Mavs' career, my most pessimistic expectations for his health have been exceeded. Some guys are just injury prone. Ridiculously tall guys like him usually are. (And anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Seriously, I'm not having that argument again with anyone.)



And I'm afraid that Bubble KP is probably gone forever. I just don't think you can have surgery on both knees without losing some mobility.

You are wrong. The most important player in Europe in the defensive way Eddie Tavares is as tall as KP and he is always available.

Enviado desde mi Mi 10 mediante Tapatalk

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by taibumu

You are wrong. The most important player in Europe in the defensive way Eddie Tavares is as tall as KP and he is always available.

Enviado desde mi Mi 10 mediante Tapatalk

There are rare exceptions, but they are indeed the exceptions. And even IF there was no correlation between height and injury, it's moot when it comes to KP. KP is injury prone, regardless of whether or not it's related to his height.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Some guys are just injury prone. Ridiculously tall guys like him usually are. (And anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Seriously, I'm not having that argument again with anyone.)

And I say you are wrong about 7’3” guys being more injury prone. I have done research that says otherwise. And seriously - don’t start the argument up again if you don’t want to argue the point

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by MFFL

And I say you are wrong about 7’3” guys being more injury prone. I have done research that says otherwise.

History is not on your side. But whatever.

And seriously - don’t start the argument up again if you don’t want to argue the point

Nah, I'll say it whenever I feel like it, thank you.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

History is not on your side. But whatever.

Nah, I'll say it whenever I feel like it, thank you.

I think you don't understand the phrase, correlation is not causation. But whatever

Say it whenever you want to. I'll be your huckleberry

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by MFFL

I think you don't understand the phrase, correlation is not causation. But whatever.

I understand it exactly. Do you? It's actually hilarious that you bring it up, because that's exactly what I was thinking when you responded. You mentioning it undermines your argument because it actually concedes that there IS a correlation. Saying that correlation is not causation does not mean that there is no correlation. It means that merely that it isn't definitively proven that one thing is the cause of the other. And that is absolutely true. It isn't definitively proven, and I certainly can't prove that really, really tall players are injury prone. There have been no real scientific studies on this to my knowledge. But correlation IS a form of evidence, and it is suggestive of causation, if not definitive proof of it.

Say it whenever you want to. I'll be your huckleberry

Good. Because I'm saying it again. There absolutely 100% is a correlation between being extremely tall and being injury prone. If you say otherwise, you are absolutely wrong.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

. Ridiculously tall guys like him usually are. (And anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

For the record, these were the exact words I used. Usually. Not always. Usually. If you really want to maintain that that's just a coincidence, fine. But you are definitely in the minority.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by turin

The same can be said for RC and his coaching. His coaching sure looks a whole lot better when he's got a budding superstar in Luka as well as when he had prime Dirk. jmho

I think that's true of every coach in every sport, ever. The best coaches tend to be the coaches with the best players.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I understand it exactly. Do you? It's actually hilarious that you bring it up, because that's exactly what I was thinking when you responded. You mentioning it undermines your argument because it actually concedes that there IS a correlation. Saying that correlation is not causation does not mean that there is no correlation. It means that merely that it isn't definitively proven that one thing is the cause of the other. And that is absolutely true. It isn't definitively proven, and I certainly can't prove that really, really tall players are injury prone. There have been no real scientific studies on this to my knowledge. But correlation IS a form of evidence, and it is suggestive of causation, if not definitive proof of it.

Good. Because I'm saying it again. There absolutely 100% is a correlation between being extremely tall and being injury prone. If you say otherwise, you are absolutely wrong.

I don't think you understand

I do not believe that there is ANY connection between being 7'3" tall and being frequently injured. You do

I am saying even if there is a correlation between being 7'3" tall and being frequently injured (there's not) that doesn't mean that the CAUSE of the alleged injury-prone nature of this players is the fact that they are 7'3"

There can be no evidence that proves this because there have only been 26 players EVER play in the NBA that were 7'3" or taller. The sample group is TOO SMALL to prove anything

So again, you are absolutely wrong and your opinion is in the minority. And for someone who doesn't want to start this argument, you sure do wind it up

But you are right that KP is injury prone

[tap2390]

Last 10 Games for KP....

7 Games Played
29.9 MPG
21.6 PPG on 51.9 FG%, 38.6 3P%, and 81.3 FT%
8.6 RPG
1.0 APG
1.0 BPG
.6 SPG
1.1 Turnovers

look whether he'll continue to be relatively healthy and effective remains to be seen, but the flak he gets is ridiculous... I swear some fans would rather be right about their opinion of him than see this team succeed with him.

[tap2390]

Last 10 Games for KP....

7 Games Played
29.9 MPG
21.6 PPG on 51.9 FG%, 38.6 3P%, and 81.3 FT%
8.6 RPG
1.0 APG
1.0 BPG
.6 SPG
1.1 Turnovers

look whether he'll continue to be relatively healthy and effective remains to be seen, but the flak he gets is ridiculous... I swear some fans would rather be right about their opinion of him than see this team succeed with him.

[EricaLubarsky]

KP will make or break this team with his defense and rebounding

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Last 10 Games for KP....

7 Games Played
29.9 MPG
21.6 PPG on 51.9 FG%, 38.6 3P%, and 81.3 FT%
8.6 RPG
1.0 APG
1.0 BPG
.6 SPG
1.1 Turnovers

look whether he'll continue to be relatively healthy and effective remains to be seen, but the flak he gets is ridiculous... I swear some fans would rather be right about their opinion of him than see this team succeed with him.

I agree

He takes a lot of heat on here.

I've always stood my opinion that with KP and Luka the Mavs can be contenders but what they lack is someone better than THJ or Brunson on this roster as 3rd wheel.

As far as injuries those things do happen and he was unfortunate. But people tend to forget Anthony Davis seemed to always miss games with injuries and the media really never called him injury prone.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

. But people tend to forget Anthony Davis seemed to always miss games with injuries and the media really never called him injury prone.

We must consume very different media then, because AD has always had that reputation.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by MFFL

I am beginning to think that Cuban will have to make a decision between Porzingis and Carlisle soon

I feel the same way as Cuban that KP is a top 20 player in this league.

But I disagree with Cuban that the Mavs can still challenge by standing pat.


"Patient, because you saw what KP could be last night. We're seeing more of that. It takes time. I mean, look at [Brooklyn Nets forward Kevin Durant], different injury, but you gotta be patient. Particularly this year. I mean, it's just such a crazy year. We got hit by a COVID outbreak really bad, and that impacted our season, and everybody was panicking and saying you gotta do A, B or C.

"We don't, we have a good team. KP is showing what KP is. He's a great top-20 player. And so we're just going to be patient. We have a good team. There's no reason to panic or do anything."

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I feel the same way as Cuban that KP is a top 20 player in this league.

But I disagree with Cuban that the Mavs can still challenge by standing pat.


"Patient, because you saw what KP could be last night. We're seeing more of that. It takes time. I mean, look at [Brooklyn Nets forward Kevin Durant], different injury, but you gotta be patient. Particularly this year. I mean, it's just such a crazy year. We got hit by a COVID outbreak really bad, and that impacted our season, and everybody was panicking and saying you gotta do A, B or C.

"We don't, we have a good team. KP is showing what KP is. He's a great top-20 player. And so we're just going to be patient. We have a good team. There's no reason to panic or do anything."

I'm not even sure about top 20 player. He has top 15 potential though.

[Thespiralgoeson]

You people are high or something. KP isn't a top 40 player, let alone top 20.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You people are high or something. KP isn't a top 40 player, let alone top 20.

I'd MAYBE put him in the top 50

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I'd MAYBE put him in the top 50

He hasn’t been a too 50 player this season. I put him in the top 50 because of his ability but not because of actual current year production.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

He hasn’t been a too 50 player this season. I put him in the top 50 because of his ability but not because of actual current year production.

So your saying there's 50 players this year averaging 21 PPG, 9 Rebounds and 2 Blocks while shooting 48% from the FG & 35% from 3 with a per of 21.50?

[Unicorn]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

So your saying there's 50 players this year averaging 21 PPG, 9 Rebounds and 2 Blocks while shooting 48% from the FG & 35% from 3 with a per of 21.50?

Today he is in top 32 in scoring, top 17 in rebounds, top 8 in Blocks

[Unicorn]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

He hasn’t been a too 50 player this season. I put him in the top 50 because of his ability but not because of actual current year production.

Today he is in top 32 in scoring, top 17 in rebounds, top 8 in Blocks

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Unicorn

Today he is in top 32 in scoring, top 17 in rebounds, top 8 in Blocks

Originally Posted by Dallas41

So your saying there's 50 players this year averaging 21 PPG, 9 Rebounds and 2 Blocks while shooting 48% from the FG & 35% from 3 with a per of 21.50?

This. We as fans collectively lack patience and for some reason Mavs fans seem especially prone to cynicism and undervaluing their own players.