For those of you in the workforce

[alby]

Hey there,

I hope everyone is enjoying the Mavericks' offseason and the great start to the Dallas Cowboys' quest for an NFL record, 6th Superbowl Championship. (How bout them Cowboys?)

This thread is mainly to get some advice/suggestions/comments or anything pertinent to the subject of choosing one's career after college.

A brief bio about me--I am in my last year at a 4-year institution in California (UC Irvine). I guess what it comes down to is that I am trying to figure out what would be the best/smartest career decision for me at this point in my life.

A. find work with my Bachelors in Economics degree after I graduate. Go to graduate school later in life.
B. enroll into the MBA program at UCI and delay my working life for another three years.
C. apply to law school (this includes studying my butt off for the LSAT, etc.) which means it would be 4 years before I start working.

Of course, there are variations to each of these three options, including what I would be doing before or during each of them.

However basically, this is what it comes down to; I would be 23 when I enter the workforce if I choose A, 26 if I choose B, and 27 if I choose C.

Are any of you guys Econ majors, and what do you do? or have done?
How about MBA guys? what are you doing and what did you do before?
Lawyers? Where did you go to school, what type of law, do you enjoy your job?

I have a lot of questions actually, I am just asking for any type of information and personal experiences that would help educate me on this decision. I would really appreciate any bit of help.

As of right now, I am heavily leaning towards the law route due to many reasons--but, each day I read about things that are pretty discouraging...
for example, http://www.careerjournal.com/salaryh...iring_whatsnew

Ultimately, it just makes this entire process that much more difficult, and that much more confusing. I believe there is no better information than from those who have already been through the same thing--so please help if you can. =)

Thanks and take care!

Go Cowboys
Go Mavericks

[Darth Ape]

An MBA is best after at least 2 years of experience, preferrably more.

[Mavdog]

you need to answer a pivotal question of yourself:

what job brings you the most reward personally? not earnings, but joy, a desire to go to work each day.

the rest is secondary...

[alby]

Personally, I would be happy with just scoring a job right out of college. However, the thing that puts doubt in my mind is the fact that the value of a four year degree has obviously diminished within the last 10 years and it'll only continue to decline.

[Flacolaco]

A 4 year degree is still worth PLENTY. You'd be surprised at the number of people that don't have degrees who are working in pretty good jobs.

Experience is what they want just as much, or more than, (in the IT industry). I don't know about your industry.

I wouldn't want to be trying to get my first experience at 27. But then again, if you have a law degree, you can get hired without much experience for decent money the way I understand it.

It's a tough decision, that's for sure.

Lucky for me, I was motivated by wanting to marry my long time girlfriend....so making the money made sense for me. I'd still like to get an MBA.

[Smiles]

If you don't acquire dependents and keep your financial commitments to a minimum, then I personally think you will be successful & comfortable no matter which of those routes you choose. You will still be very young when you finish B & C.

I don't know what options are available to you with a bachelors degree in economics, but your life and goals might change significanlty years down the road (Plan A). Do you really want to commit yourself to doing that later? Maybe so!

[ty]

Originally Posted by Smiles

If you don't acquire dependents and keep your financial commitments to a minimum, then I personally think you will be successful & comfortable no matter which of those routes you choose. You will still be very young when you finish B & C.

In other words, don't get married, have kids (including illegitimate ones), or take in grandma. ;P

[ty]

Honestly, it's nice to have a job after college. But I'd definitely go with where your personality fits the best.

At school, usually in careers centers, they offer personality tests that match you up with a career that best suits your personality. I went to UT Austin, but I actually took one of those tests at a community college free of charge. I know that they can't tell you everything, but they can point you in a good direction.

But from a personal perspective, you have more time than you think. Not everybody goes to law school right after college. And not every one does grad right after either. I'm currently working my first job, trying to get in all the experience that I can. If options B or C came back at me in a year or two, I could always make a decision about that when the time comes. No rush Alby =]

Now, if you plan on taking in "dependents" the next year--you better get hired soon! =P

[alby]

You don't have to answer this, but--Ape, Mavdog, Flac, and Smiles; what did you study in school, what did you do when you graduated, what are you doing now?

Ty--true, and see you soon old friend =]

[Big Boy Laroux]

Go Anteaters! my cousin went there.

Anyway, i graduated with a degree in Mathematics. and i barely use it now.

I got a job right out of school in software development/support. Worked that for a little while, and now i'm in sales. i'm loving my new job, and it pays quite well.

all that with a 4 year degree.

I considered grad school, even going forward with a doctorate. But i was just plain sick of going to school.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by alby

You don't have to answer this, but--Ape, Mavdog, Flac, and Smiles; what did you study in school, what did you do when you graduated, what are you doing now?

Ty--true, and see you soon old friend =]

bs in poli sci/economics.

worked for a decade as a merchandiser/buyer for a national retail chain.

now in commercial real estate.

my suggestion is to try to determine what industry you enjoy, and then what position you ideally see yourself in. after that you will have a good roadmap of what that position mandates as far as education/licences/certification/work experience to get there.

[FINtastic]

Well, I can't offer much advice, but I certainly can empathize. I'm a fellow Senior Economics (and Math) major trying to figure out what I want to do with my life. I do think I'm going onto grad school for a Master's, but I'm having a lot of trouble figuring what field to go into. I've got three options I'm looking at - Actuarial, Financial Mathematics, and Economics. I really like Economics, but I'm not too sure whether it would be able to open the door to the types of jobs I think I might be interested in. A good Actuary or Financial Mathematics degree would have me set as far as finding a well-paying job, but I still don't know much about these fields. I think they would be two good combinations of my interest in Math and Economics, but like I said I just started learning about them recently. It's a tad scary knowing that the decision you are about to make is going to for all likelihood shape the next 5+ years of your life.

[MavsMandy]

i second madape's advice re: working for a few years before business school. the admissions process favors people with work experience, and i've heard that you get more out of it once you've been working for awhile.

as for law school vs. working...well, i had to make the same decision. i realized the major reason i wanted to go to law school was because i didn't know what else to do and it seemed like a good default--and that's not a good enough reason to put yourself through the pain and debt of three years of law school.

so, i made the decision to get a job. did a double major in economics and computer science and have been working at a management consulting firm for about a month now. so far it has been a pretty sweet gig, although i'm sure the travel will get old at some point. i'm planning to do this for two years and then go get an mba (which my company will hopefully pay for, under the condition that i come back for another two years).

good luck. having recently been through the whole process, i know how much it can suck.

[mnmpeanut]

as someone who has been unemployed for going on 5 months now, i find it amusing to read about people who finished their bachelor's yet are working in an industry/occupation that has little or nothing to do with their major.

i was told in an interview not long ago that i was overqualified yet undereducated. meaning, i have almost 15 years experience as an accountant, but because i didn't finish my degree (full-time work plus full-time school - fine - add fatherhood, oops, no can do), i can't get a sniff almost anywhere, much less at the salary range that someone with my experience should garner.

anyway, in my opinion, if you have the means, the opportunity, and the desire to continue your education now, i would have to go with that. i can tell you from experience that you never know where life will take you, so getting your education finished before most of life's major events (marraige, children, etc.) take place is always the way to go.

[Flacolaco]

I have a B.S. in Computer Science. (insert "bs" joke here)

I eventually got lucky and got a position with a major retailers' corporate office (to answer your question Alby) only a few months after graduating. My position is not technically computer science related (in title). I work in "loss prevention." From day to day that can mean anything between internal investigations of company employees, covert camera installs, background checks, administrative work,.... whatever. I have managed to work a lot of comp sci into the job, and I now write a lot of scripts and DB stuff for my department on a corporate intranet.

A LARGE percentage of undergrad students don't end up getting jobs related to their degrees. Sometimes, just any degree will suffice.

It just depends on what you want.

[alexamenos]

for what it's worth....welders in wyoming can make $150k per year, and roughnecks are starting out at well over $25/hr....

I saw a sign in a convenience store in rock springs offering a $1000 sign on bonus to run a cash register.

[alby]

thanks for helping me out guys..

anymore?

what did you guys study? what did you do after you graduated? and what do you do now?

what I really want from this thread is a glimpse of your own personal experiences =]

[fluid.forty.one]

Well are you ever going to regret furthering your education? no

Are you ever going to regret NOT furthering your education right away? possibly

so my answer would be B or C... leaning more towards B.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by mnmpeanut

anyway, in my opinion, if you have the means, the opportunity, and the desire to continue your education now, i would have to go with that. i can tell you from experience that you never know where life will take you, so getting your education finished before most of life's major events (marraige, children, etc.) take place is always the way to go.

That's kind of my thinking. I'm at a point where I don't have a wife and kids or anything else to constrain me so why not go ahead with grad school? Plus, I get a feeling that it's a lot easier to go into grad school straight out of college than it is to come back after being out of school for a few years.

[ocelot_ark]

My degree is finance but I work with some economics guys now. I went straight to work after I finished but I still have delusions that maybe I'll go to law school down the line. I make decent enough money as it is, but as an attorney I could make much more just within the agency I work for.

I don't have much advice, however - if you (or anyone else) is interested in a job and have a degree in finance, economics, management, etc, etc...shoot me a PM. The agency is going through the largest hiring initiative in its history. There are locations all over the country. Pay is very competitive in this part of the country, don't know how competitive it would be in places like California, Chicago, NY, etc.

[jthig32]

I have a B.S. in Computer Information Systems. I took a job in Software Development straight out of college and still have it (course, that was only 3 years ago...).

In my industry, degrees are generally much, much less valuable than experience. Many of my co-workers don't even have degrees, much less anything above a Bachelors. However, my company was bought about 2 years ago, and our new corporate policy requires new developers to have degrees. They can be in anything, literally, but they have to have them.

In my opinion, you can always go back to school. I finished school with a wife and two kids. It can be done. I was itching to get away from school and get into the workforce. Unless I hit a huge wall somewhere down the line, I doubt I'll ever consider graduate work.

[dalmations202]

Personally, if you are not married or have children to support, I'd go with B. Getting the MBA/education is the one thing no one can take from you. They can take you material possessions, your wife, and your life, but if they take your knowledge (brainwash), then you aren't that person anymore.

I myself have a BS in Computer Information Systems, and have been a welder, eligibility specialist for the state, programmer, IS mgr, Tech Services Director, small business owner (computer shop -- had to do it all), and now Network Admin/Engineer with 15+ years experience in systems, wireless, and connectivity. I have my MCSE, wireless certs from IBM and Telxon, and am about ready to take the CCNA exam. All this since I got the BS. Military and other odd jobs before.

My best advice is to do what you enjoy -- all jobs get old after enough years --, always keep learning -- everything changes whether you do or not--, and always keep perspective --- God, friends, and families will always have more purpose and give more pleasure than any material goods or money.

[Flacolaco]

Allow me to hijack this thread for a second....

Dalm and Thig, you guys have degrees in "Computer Information Systems" and I have a degree in "Computer Science"

What's the difference?

[jthig32]

Computer Information Systems is generally focused on development at a higher level, for business applications. In my class we had a mixture of people that were planning on being developers, and people that planned on becoming Analysts of some sort (like Business Analysts) or even go into Software Sales.

So at my school, it meant you took some web development classes instead of lower level programming classes like Assembly, and some project management classes in place of other things. And your focus was more on higher level applications.

Ironically, my first and only job so far has been low level C++, interfacing with media boards and phone switches via API's. I work with all CS guys, and get laughed at when I can't do hex conversions in my head or understand memory dumps, etc.

p.s. And btw, when I say lower/higher level, I'm not talking about skill. It has to do with how far down in the nitty gritty of things you are with the language you're working with. I assume anyone that is even reading this post to this point will know that, but just in case others make it this far, I'm not being haughty or anything.

[Flacolaco]

Where did you get your degree from thig (if you don't mind saying) ?

I know you spent time at UNT, but I don't remember them having a Computer Information Systems major...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Where did you get your degree from thig (if you don't mind saying) ?

I know you spent time at UNT, but I don't remember them having a Computer Information Systems major...

I spent two semesters at UNT as quite possibly the only Honors Program student in RTVF (Radio, Television, Film). Sorry if that offends anyone, that's a major full of mostly artsy, out there people, all I'm saying.

About halfway through my second semester I realized I'd made a mistake and wanted to do something a bit more academic, so I wanted a switch to a Computer Science'ish major. However, certain life circumstances dictated that I get out of school as fast as possible...

So I transferrd to DeVry of all places. I was resistant to the idea at first, because of the stigma attached to it, but was assured by several people I knew in the Software industry that DeVry did actually have a good reputation among Tech employers. They had a trimester schedule, and set class hours so you could gurantee all your classes would be in the morning, helps when you need to hold down a job.

Anyway, that was probably more info than anyone really needed. I've actually considered starting a thread about DeVry and schools like it in the past. It's a fascinating study of what happens when a school as EXTREMELY low admissions standards, but normal graduation requirements. It was interesting to see it first hand.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by jthig32

It's a fascinating study of what happens when a school as EXTREMELY low admissions standards, but normal graduation requirements. It was interesting to see it first hand.

lol that does sound interesting. Or tragic, for some people anyways.

That was always fun in the CS classes....coming back each semester and seeing the guys and talking about who dropped out or changed their major to social studies or some easy crap like that.

[untitled]

<---Bachelor's degree in business, currently in my 2nd year of law school, eager to graduate and get the hell out of San Antonio.

I took a year off after college to work as a case clerk for a med-mal attorney (I hated her, but liked the subject matter). Plus, my dad is actually a very good lawyer, so growing up it was always the default career choice for me in that I am pretty confident that I can do the job. Plus, it's the only graduate degree that interested me as it's useful in just about any profession.

...but the 1st year of law school is no fun. No fun at all. I should have waited longer to go to school because I was nowhere near motivated enough to deal with the hell that is the 1st year.

[alby]

great info guys

[ty]

Which Law School in SA? My brother is down there...

Originally Posted by untitled

<---Bachelor's degree in business, currently in my 2nd year of law school, eager to graduate and get the hell out of San Antonio.

I took a year off after college to work as a case clerk for a med-mal attorney (I hated her, but liked the subject matter). Plus, my dad is actually a very good lawyer, so growing up it was always the default career choice for me in that I am pretty confident that I can do the job. Plus, it's the only graduate degree that interested me as it's useful in just about any profession.

...but the 1st year of law school is no fun. No fun at all. I should have waited longer to go to school because I was nowhere near motivated enough to deal with the hell that is the 1st year.

[Henry_VIII]

BS in Computer Science and Math here. Work in an IT department as a developer/architect/analyst/etc. Doing it for over a decade and two employers.

I would point to the practical issue that has been alluded to but not directly said. Take time to assess your financial situation. If you are financially able to continue on in school without owing the earnings of the foreseeable future to a financial institution, then staying in school is a practical option. If you are already getting pretty steeped in debt, it would probably be best to get a career oriented job. You can do very well without the extra education. Financially, you will be best served to get as much practical experience under your belt, and then add on the MBA for a bump. From what I've seen, experience drives the base salary and education gives you the 5-10% extra. Getting experience early is always advantageous in my opinion. Taking the slow road to an MBA (1 class per semester while working) works for many people.

Please, don't take this to mean that it is all about the money. I whole-heartedly agree with those who have advised you to find what you love and do it. Just don't ignore the practical.

[untitled]

Originally Posted by ty

Which Law School in SA? My brother is down there...

St. Mary's.

[alby]

That's the same school his brother goes to. Nice

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Henry_VIII

BS in Computer Science and Math here. Work in an IT department as a developer/architect/analyst/etc. Doing it for over a decade and two employers.

I would point to the practical issue that has been alluded to but not directly said. Take time to assess your financial situation. If you are financially able to continue on in school without owing the earnings of the foreseeable future to a financial institution, then staying in school is a practical option. If you are already getting pretty steeped in debt, it would probably be best to get a career oriented job. You can do very well without the extra education. Financially, you will be best served to get as much practical experience under your belt, and then add on the MBA for a bump. From what I've seen, experience drives the base salary and education gives you the 5-10% extra. Getting experience early is always advantageous in my opinion. Taking the slow road to an MBA (1 class per semester while working) works for many people.

Please, don't take this to mean that it is all about the money. I whole-heartedly agree with those who have advised you to find what you love and do it. Just don't ignore the practical.

You should listen to this guy. That's good advice.

Don't take any personal advice from him though, he's been married 6 times and he severed England from the Roman Catholic church.

[alby]

although I'm a year away from graduation, I'm now leaning towards gaining that precious work experience first before going into grad school...

[Flacolaco]

Two things

1. No one liked my British history joke?....I hate all of you.

2. Whatever you decide Alby, just go for it all the way. Don't be torn in two directions, and don't ever second guess yourself.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

and don't ever second guess yourself.

unless...

[alby]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Two things

1. No one liked my British history joke?....I hate all of you.

2. Whatever you decide Alby, just go for it all the way. Don't be torn in two directions, and don't ever second guess yourself.

Thanks flac, it's hard sometimes to not think about the alternative decisions, I guess that's why I'm trying to get as much information and personal experience as I can to see what people who were in the same position decided to do. No worries, I'm going to be happy with whatever I do, and I know things will turn out okay if I work hard.

[dalmations202]

The only problem with getting the experience before the Grad school is that once you have the spouse and kids, the priorities change. Then it becomes much harder to go back and get the Grad degree because you are needed to provide for the family.

[mcsluggo]

As has been said before by others... you kinda HAVE to wait a little while (get a little bit of job experience) before moving on with an MBA. More than ANY other degree, the value of an MBA is hugely dependent upon the quality/ranking of the institution you get it from (in some other cases, WHERE you got your degree can matter little, ESPECIALY after a couple of years out...)

Back to the first question... I also was an Econ undergrad (with CS also) and got a job as an economist straight out of school. THen after about 3 years went back to school and got my PhD (and masters along the way). I was married when I went back to school, but had no kids... and we were both amenible to living the poor but relatively care-free life. We didn't go into DEBT at all during those second school years, but we also didn't start saving for the future at all either (with masters and PhD programs you can OFTEN get some type of work/tuition help, and are much less likely to end up in debt than you are with an MBA/Law/MD degree... but the tradeoff is that the boost to your earning potential is also lower -- at least relative to law/MD)

My motivations for going back to school were clearly not the best ---I largely was just not ready to actually WORK for a living.... let me tell ya, work is for chumps! ... my time in grad school (which, btw, was MUCH longer than it SHOULD"VE been...stupid dissertation) was very enjoyable at first, and eventually trailed into an actual internalization of the need to get on and get a real job (and < shudder> even a DESIRE to do so). FOr the record, I did have my first child during my last year of grad school (and wife was preggo with the second)... but the desire to move on had already securely settled in.

I am now in international finance/economics. For my job, an appropriate masters/MBA probably would've been just as useful as my PhD... the doctorate gives me extra clout, but at the cost of not having generated the work experience during my slovenly years of slowly (not) writing a dissertation.

I am happy where I ended up... a good and interesting job with high earnings potential (If I move out of my CURRENT development oriented job and actually seek out the money... and the suck-ass, never see your kids working hours).... but if I had it all to do again, I honestly think I would go for the MD rather than the PhD (which I was SERIOUSLY considering at the time)... for my current line of work, I am kinda trapped with living in either Washington DC or NY/NY (in the US), on the other hand an MD is needed ANYWHERE


Anyway, just some semi-random thoughts.......after reading all of this, the only thing you should've actually taken away is..... "work is for chumps"