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Old 11-05-2004, 01:51 PM   #41
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

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But back to my original point. FG% is more important. And if the Mavs keep holding teams to a low FG%, the rebounding will not that important ecause on most games it will work itself out.
If the Mavs keep holding teams to a low fg%, AND keep shoting 49% or better the rebounding probably won't matter much. The problem is that you've conveniently ignored the fact that these two games have been won on the strength of some very hot shooting from the field that will almost certainly not be replicated throughout the season. Beyond that, I've never discounted the imprtance of fg%. Obviously, if we can get relatively comfortable wins against a pair of playoff teams from last year while rebounding like crap then I'd say it's safe to infer that an 8-13% spread in own fg% minus opponent's fg% is worth quite a bit. Unfortunately, it's not realistic to assume that margin's going to hold up given that last year not a sinlge team in the league managed a 5% margin in fg% differential.

And here's the thing, bayliss. You keep saying that fg% is more important, and to some extent that argument is reasonable, since fluctuations in fg% differential will have larger effects on the scoreboard relative to equivalent fluctuations in reb% differential, but when you take a closer look it's precisely because of the magnitude of the effect of a given swing in fg% that getting our rebounding together will be so important. Look at it this way. When the Mavs' fg% differential comes down to earth, even if it stays at 5%, which would probably be best in the league, we're giving up about 10-12 points per game (in terms of point differential) from the 11% fg% differential we've averaged in the first two games. By comparison, when offensive and defensive rebounding opportunities are held constant, we're grabbing only about 46% of the available rebounds, which would be good enough for worst in the league if that pace were maintained for an entire season. If we can get that up to at least 50%, which IMO is a vey reasonable goal, that should make up for an extra 4-5 ppg (differential) over what our rebounding is currently buying us. Is that as big a fluctuation as what alterations in fg% will bring about? No. But when the Mavs start losing points as their fg% differential stabilizes and rebounding is the only way to get some of those points back, tell me how overrated a statistic you think it is then.
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(Btw, Dallas was tied in rebounding with the Kings two nights ago. So there rebounding was off in only only 1 game.)
The Kings also had 13 team rebounds to Dallas' 3. New Orleans held an 11-4 edge in that category as well. The Mavs have lost the battle on the boards in both games.
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:01 PM   #42
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..


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(Btw, Dallas was tied in rebounding with the Kings two nights ago. So there rebounding was off in only only 1 game.)
The Kings also had 13 team rebounds to Dallas' 3. New Orleans held an 11-4 edge in that category as well. The Mavs have lost the battle on the boards in both games.[/quote]



Eh? was following you until this last statement. I don't know that team rebounds really mean much of anything - can't remember the exact definition but it's something to the effect that your team gets the ball back after a play where there was no rebound by an actual player, e.g. the mavs block a shot out of bounds - no one on Sacramento or Dallas gets the rebound but since it's off Dallas, it counts as a team rebound for Sacramento. Similar scenario is after missing the first free throw of two - it counts as a team rebound cause you get to shoot the ball again on FT try #2. so theoretically you could have many team rebounds just by bricking the first of two FT's repeatedly. Or by throwing the ball off the defense and out of bounds repeatedly. I don't see how it's really of any value... it's just to keep track of what happened on each play.
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:21 PM   #43
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

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can't remember the exact definition but it's something to the effect that your team gets the ball back after a play where there was no rebound by an actual player, e.g. the mavs block a shot out of bounds - no one on Sacramento or Dallas gets the rebound but since it's off Dallas, it counts as a team rebound for Sacramento.
I'd wager giving up team rebounds isn't as severe a problem as losing rebounds to a player on the opposing team since the conversion rate for second chance points off team offensive rebounds, for example, is probably not as high as it is for offensive rebounds garnered by a player. Similarly, one would think team defensive rebounds wouldn't lend themselves to running on the break as well as defensive rebounds grabbed by a player. Nonetheless, when a Mavs opponent gets a rebound, whether it be a team rebound or a rebound by a player, that's either one more chance for them to score, or one less chance for the Mavs to score. The primary exception, as you note, occurs when a player misses the first of two free throws. Even taking that into account, though, the Mavs still got outrebounded by Sacramento. And even when team rebounds are ignored Sac still did better on the boards than the Mavs by rebounding percentage, as Sac players grabbed 65.8% of their available defensive rebounds as compared to 62.5% for the Mavs.
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Old 11-05-2004, 07:10 PM   #44
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

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But when the Mavs start losing points as their fg% differential stabilizes and rebounding is the only way to get some of those points back, tell me how overrated a statistic you think it is then.
As overrated as outrebounding the opponent and giving up 47% shooting and losing.

(I'll take the former. You can take the latter. Your team will be Golden State and Dallas of last year and mine will actually win.)
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Old 11-05-2004, 08:07 PM   #45
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

Reality just telephoned me. It said it had been knocking on your door for the last day or so and nobody had answered, and advised me to just give up on what's obviously a lost cause. I'm taking it's advice.
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Old 11-05-2004, 08:26 PM   #46
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

hilarious

Here are a few more great examples of philosophy in action

would you rather score 100 points and lose or score 80 points and win?
would you rather have 40assists and lose, or would you rather have this team play one on one with zero assists and lose?
would you rather have 20 blocks per game in a loss, or zero in a win?
would you rather have 15 extra possessions from steals in a loss or would you rather have 5 steals in a win.

The fact is, that games can be won in a number of ways, and a team should keep down TOs, while keeping FG%, 3pt%, FT%, rebounding, steals, blocks, FGA, FGM. Teams can win games with low shooting percentage, teams can get outrebounded and win. We should make an effort at doing everything well.

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Old 11-05-2004, 09:59 PM   #47
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

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Reality just telephoned me. It said it had been knocking on your door for the last day or so and nobody had answered, and advised me to just give up on what's obviously a lost cause. I'm taking it's advice.
Go sell your crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here.
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Old 11-05-2004, 10:39 PM   #48
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

I have been amused by the comments of both C and Bayliss...

ON TOPIC: I predict tomorrow will be Damp's first double double
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Old 11-06-2004, 12:10 AM   #49
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

Big picture: Dampier not satisfied with his play, but others are

10:57 PM CST on Friday, November 5, 2004

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News


Erick Dampier is thrilled to be 2-0. A lot of times in his first eight seasons in the NBA, his teams started out exactly opposite.

Sporadic would be a word Dampier would use to describe his play.

"I expect more out of myself than this," he said after he had 10 points and eight rebounds at New Orleans. "I haven't played my best yet, but it's early in the season."

While Dampier doesn't feel he's found a groove yet, his coaches have seen more positive moments. In fact, they have been encouraged by the aspects of the game that perhaps are lost on the casual fan.

"With him in there, I didn't have to double-team the post," coach Don Nelson said of Dampier's defense against Hornets All-Star Jamaal Magloire. "I think Damp is going to be better than what we've seen. Just the fact we have size and he's doing his job in there. Being bigger in the middle has definitely helped our defense."

Essentially, the play of Dampier in the post and Josh Howard on the wing has been the catalyst for the Mavericks' thus-far improved defense. Howard, in fact, has disrupted things so well that the Mavericks already are trying to sell him on focusing on trying to make the league's all-defensive team.

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The combination of Howard, Dampier and a quicker-than-average point guard (either Devin Harris or Jason Terry) has given the Mavericks a different look defensively.

That is, they can actually play some.

"His presence is huge," assistant coach Avery Johnson said of Dampier. "His numbers weren't great in New Orleans, but boy, he did some nice stuff."

Neither Dirk Nowitzki nor Michael Finley is ever going to win any awards for his defense. But they aren't inept at it, either. And after years of offensive-minded strategies, they know the value of defense.

"We're a lot more solid at that end now," Nowitzki said. "With Damp in the middle, we have the potential to be pretty good."

What the incoming Mavericks have done is embrace the idea of defending all areas of the court. Howard has been the catalyst.

"Absolutely," Johnson said. "If you look at the first two games, obviously, it's only two games. But you can see signs that we've made improvement. Because of Josh's approach to defense and because of Damp's commitment to defense and because we have a point guard who is really quick, we've made strides.

"But a lot of it comes from what Josh is doing, because you can put him on a lot of different players and he covers up a lot of mistakes."

The Mavericks have not allowed either of their opponents to shoot 42 percent. Of course, Sacramento was in disarray without Doug Christie and with Chris Webber and Peja Stojakovic sniping at each other. And New Orleans may be a lottery team.

Still, the defense is better, and Dampier has also added an ancillary benefit.

"The big boy is getting double-teamed on the box offensively," Johnson said.

And when was the last time that's happened to a Mavericks center?
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Old 11-06-2004, 12:17 AM   #50
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

What would be interesting would be to see if there is some sort of correlation between rebounding and FG%.

Obviously, a defensive team would like to force the offense into low-percentage shots. What if it were the case that low-perentage shots resulted in misses that were more likely to be rebounded by the offensive team? Say, for example, that a defender comes over to double a guy on the perimeter as the shot clock is expiring. The offensive player is less likely to hit the shot, being covered by two defenders. But now there are four offensive players to crash the board, and only three defenders.

It would also be interesting to see if there was a correlation between the pace a team liked to play and which stat was more important to that team. Is a team that likes to grind it out in a half-court style more susceptible to rebounding weaknesses? Five points takes on a different meaning in games where the score is in the 70's or 80's than it does if the score is in the 100's.

That's the fun of all this. Rarely does one stat exist in a vaccuum.
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Old 11-06-2004, 02:30 AM   #51
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

Wasn't Damp brought in for defense and rebounding? In my opinion both are still a question, more so the rebounding, espesially on the defensive side. Granted it's early, but I'd like to see a break out game soon.
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Old 11-06-2004, 02:20 PM   #52
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

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Wasn't Damp brought in for defense and rebounding? In my opinion both are still a question, more so the rebounding, espesially on the defensive side. Granted it's early, but I'd like to see a break out game soon.
Sorry to pick on you (you were the last one to post), but did you not just read that article? Players and coaches alike feel that Dampier's presence in the game alone is making a difference in our overall play. Why are people so worried and committed about individual statistics and accolades? I seriously do not get it, I thought we were passed all that after our debacle in Athens? I guess not.
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:32 PM   #53
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

*bump*
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:37 PM   #54
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

13 points, 18 rebounds. i guess he was alright

;D
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:47 PM   #55
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

I got my wish[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

great game from Damp
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Old 11-07-2004, 12:41 AM   #56
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

He was a big man out there tonight. Got the rebounds in the fourth when it was needed to be put away, very nice.
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Old 11-07-2004, 03:00 AM   #57
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

Great game by Damp tonight. It was nice that he had it against such a physical team like Memphis. Now we just need him to lay Bonzi Wells out on his ass. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
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Old 11-07-2004, 03:54 AM   #58
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

Damp was worth every cent baby! Games like that and we will be asking him his ring size in June.
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Old 11-07-2004, 10:00 AM   #59
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

Quote:
"I expect more out of myself than this," he said after he had 10 points and eight rebounds at New Orleans. "I haven't played my best yet, but it's early in the season."
you gotta love this..

I also liked last night after a tv interview with Bob Ortegal, Bob said something to the effect of "Keep working hard young man." To which Damp replied, "You know I will." I like that workman attitude Damp has...every time you hear him, its "Hard work" this and "Got work harder for boards" that. So far, I like both the rhetoric and the reality.
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Old 11-07-2004, 10:02 AM   #60
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

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Originally posted by: LRB
Great game by Damp tonight. It was nice that he had it against such a physical team like Memphis. Now we just need him to lay Bonzi Wells out on his ass. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Totally agree….there was no play whatsoever from what I could tell from my seat (the play happened towards my end of the court). Punks should not be allowed to slam their fists in to Dirk’s neck without serious repercussions.


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Old 11-07-2004, 11:00 AM   #61
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

dirk needs to get in some of these guys' faces...he always walks way and does the right thing but if he gets in someone's face, you won't see anyone messing with him

do you think anyone would hit a guy like kenyon martin the way dirk got hit going into the lane yesterday?
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Old 11-08-2004, 03:43 PM   #62
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

Quote:
Originally posted by: madape
If we want it bad enough, it's going to happen. Let's all say it together:

Damp is great. Damp is great. Damp is great. Damp is great.
I said it and it came true!!!! 13points 18rebounds in 30 minutes.

now if that would work for my bank account..,...

I have a million dollars. I have a million dollars. I have a million dollars.
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Old 11-08-2004, 03:50 PM   #63
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

Quote:
Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Quote:
Originally posted by: madape
If we want it bad enough, it's going to happen. Let's all say it together:

Damp is great. Damp is great. Damp is great. Damp is great.
I said it and it came true!!!! 13points 18rebounds in 30 minutes.

now if that would work for my bank account..,...

I have a million dollars. I have a million dollars. I have a million dollars.
And to think it's all thanks to madape. What delicious irony.
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"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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Old 11-09-2004, 08:54 AM   #64
Steve13
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Default RE:Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

don't know what happened last night though...
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Old 11-09-2004, 09:59 AM   #65
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Default RE: Hopfully Dampier starts to become a double double guy soon..

At some point you have to learn what to expect night in and night out from Dampier. As much as I like to see him grab 18 boards.. I realize that it just isnt' going to happen that much. We're much more likely to see him grab five boards a game like he did last night and like he did the first game of the season. Eventually the bad games and the good games will even out and he'll average about 7 boards a game. I expect a lot more out of an $80 million player than 10 points 7 boards. We could get that out of Calvin Booth, Shawn Bradley, Raef LaFrentz or any other decent center. I guess I'm just not that impressed with the man.. even now.
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