Dallas Mavericks Offseason Thread

[MX425]

Originally Posted by JamesVE

It absolutely boggles my mind that anybody even remotely thinks it's a good idea to re-sign Kidd.

Ok, Is there anywhere on this site we can send people to learn about the salary cap? letting Kidd leave is a HORRIBLE idea. I am not arguing abilities (they are declining) or any other attribute besides dollars and cents. Kidd walks, we are screwed because now we have to use one of our assets to fill that void. We need to use those assets and get a young pg and allow him to develop(as well as a reliable #2 and a center). If we pay 11 mil to Kidd it will in no way hinder our ability to sign other players besides Cuban's check book. We are over the salary cap which means we cannot go out an offer contracts to free agents besides our MLE or vet min. We are though allowed to sign current players to a contract that is as large as we want due to something called "Bird rights." We sign Kidd for 2-3 years at around 8 mil and then when his contract is running out we can always use him as an expiring contract to some team looking to rebuild.

Keeping need is not a want, it is a must. we cannot have that value just walk out because there is no recouping it somewhere else. IT WILL BE GONE.

[Murphy3]

Terry's not staying because he's more valuable to the Mavs than anyone else.. He'll be a Mav because of his contract.

[BGMaverick9]

Like I mentioned, it's not going to hurt all the way if we don't get Artest. We're definitely going to drive the price up for him...that's going to hurt Houston in the long run.

This team doesn't need time to gel anymore...it has run its course. I'm not saying you make a trade just for the sake of making one but lateral moves might not be that any more because you're bringing fresh life into the roster and now something can gel and develop into something more than it appears.

The question is, who do you go after with the MLE then. I don't think Cuban can just sit on it. Sike said it, and I said it at the beginning...it's gotta be whatever it takes. It's not like we are bashful for overpaying to get guys.

Washington is going to be an interesting team because I don't know if they're just going to give Flip a straight out chance with the roster or start shedding the payroll. They clearly need to do that...coaching is a problem, but health is the bigger problem with that roster. They have too big of a payroll for a team that is hurt all the time and isn't making the playoffs. Butler is the obvious guy you go after in that case. You offer Damp and or Stack and then you use Josh and maybe Bass to get you a big man and you can still use the MLE for a wing player.

Washington, GS, Milwaukee and Charlotte are teams right off the bat you need to get in contact with.

[sike]

Originally Posted by destroy ALL

mavs need to do it like the celtics did 2 yrs ago.

is that really an option? Like its, A: Blow it up, B: Make Small Moves that you hope improve you enough to make a real difference .....or C: Just do what the Celtics did and win a Championship


If so, I choose C.

[sefant77]

How do we price up a player if we just have the MLE for a player that will get anyway clearly above MLE?

Like i said, i think our use of the MLE will depend if we make expensive deals for Stack and Damp. If we switch them for longer contracts i can see us not using the MLE since our payroll will be huge and our team allready pretty good.

[MX425]

The MLE will have to be used. You lose it you lose it. I think if nothing else offer some to one player and some to another to add depth if thats what we need to do.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by sefant77

How do we price up a player if we just have the MLE for a player that will get anyway clearly above MLE?

Like i said, i think our use of the MLE will depend if we make expensive deals for Stack and Damp. If we switch them for longer contracts i can see us not using the MLE since our payroll will be huge and our team allready pretty good.

Artest and Ariza fall in that line of players who would have to slip to us to get them for the MLE...but you can drive up the price and mess other teams up. That's part of the game as well. But the market isn't going to be a huge buyer's market this summer as well. The economy is scaring owners and you saw with NO, they're ready to unload players to get salary relief...teams are going to want to do that.

Cuban clearly falls in line in the very small group that will want to be a buyer. There is a difference tho between being a buyer and having the access/weapons to ACTUALLY be one. He has the money and he has the contracts (some just contracts, some talent with the contracts) to bring players in. He doesn't care about the price-tag, he just wants to win.

The FO really can't get caught up in loving their own guys. There are going to be deals available for guys that are in our range of wish-list kind of guys. The reason I know that's true is because those trades were there already, we just said no because we loved our guys too much.

X is available, but are you willing to trade Josh?
Y is ready to be done, but they're asking for Bass to top it off.

If X or Y is an upgrade...you've got to do the deals.

I see Jet being mentioned a lot to trade...I'm about 90% certain that's not happening unless we do a mega blockbuster, something bigger than we are imagining...that's hard to see. It's the economy, teams are looking 1-2 years down the road and anyone who has a contract past that isn't interesting. Someone who has that and the contract is pretty substantial...no way.

[sike]

BGM is a great poster.

great stuff.

[BGMaverick9]

sike!

I've missed ya buddy!!!

[jacktruth]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Well I think several people have given plenty reason why they don't favor him for one reason or another. He is small, can't defend,can't rebound, he is a very very streaky shooter- meaning when you need it it's likely not going to be there. He can't pass well, doesn't make the best decisions. I love his attitude and he seems to be a great guy but we need size and consistency at the SG. His isn't a pg.

Yeah, he may have played for a while with Dirk but that only taken us so far. Also both of them on the court is bad defensively. We need a new mentality and fresh help around Dirk.

I agree that Jet has his problems, but it's a league of tough choices. You don't just go to the library and check out a 6-5 shooting guard that can defend, hit the three consistently and rebound. Players fitting that description are on a short list and none are available. My argument is that Jet is a solid player for this team and can put up big numbers in the right matchups. You need guys like that and his chemistry with this team is something you won't get next year if you trade for another 6th-man type of player.

[jthig32]

A couple things:

Keep in mind that Damp's contract get's even more valuable next season, and he's still a valuable and needed member of the rotation. So don't count it certain that he's traded just because he's an expiring this season.

Bass is almost certainly not going to be traded. He's a free agent and any contract he signs is going to trigger Base Year Compensation.

Anyone not wanting Kidd back needs to go read MX25's post above. Any scenario that doesn't involve Kidd being back or Kidd being signed-and-traded is almost certainly a disaster for the Mavs.

[BGMaverick9]

dmn blog

Originally Posted by sike

Bank of Cuban open for business this summer
11:20 AM Thu, May 14, 2009
Tim MacMahon

Brace yourself for hundreds of trade rumors involving the Mavericks this summer.

Bet on the Mavs making at least one blockbuster deal.

The Great Free Agent Summer of 2010 is a backup plan at this point. Mark Cuban wants to strike now instead of letting another year of Dirk's prime go by without the supporting cast he needs to make the Mavs legit contenders. The likelihood of convincing Jason Kidd to return also increase significantly if the Mavs can make a major deal early on this summer.

The Mavs, according to Cuban, will be aggressive and opportunistic this summer. He has three significant expiring contracts to dangle: Josh Howard (team option for 2010-11), Erick Dampier (2010-11 not guaranteed) and Jerry Stackhouse, whose an especially valuable trade chip in these economic times because his $7 million salary can be bought out for $2 million.

Cuban has made it clear that he's willing to take back significant salaries in a trade that makes the Mavs much better. That makes the Mavs unique in this summer's trade market.

"Would I do it for a marginal player? No," Cuban said the other day. "Would I do it for a young perennial All-Star? Sure I would."

The Chris Bosh rumors have already started. The Raptors want to try to sign the Dallas native to a contract extension, but if that doesn't happen, he'll be on the block. And he'll have plenty of company in a climate where cost cutting is the off-season priority for many teams -- and the Mavs plan to take advantage of it.

[alby]

Morey is not going to break the bank on Artest. 8 mil a year my ass.

[alby]

The thing with Kidd being old and all that BS, the truth of the matter is nobody in the NBA can stay with Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, etc. Look at Chris Paul vs. Chauncey in the first round.

People wanting Kidd to go are just not very smart.

[Underdog]

Making it to the 2nd round this year should bolster this team's image a bit when it comes to attracting free agents - Dirk just proved once again that any team he leads is still a contender...

[sike]

I would love....LOVE....to somehow get Bosh in a S&T!!!

That would answer almost all my Mavs prayers in one fell swoop!

[Underdog]

I love Kidd as a player (regardless of his obvious decline), but I don't think this team is currently set up well to utilize his talents and make up for his shortcomings...

Of course, that's the same problem we have with Dirk - this lineup is no longer a good fit for his skillset (although Dirk & Kidd compliment each other nicely...)

[Underdog]

I still don't quite get how Bosh and Dirk would work on the court at the same time...

Not that I'm against Bosh, I just don't get which position each one would play on offense/defense - they seem kinda redundant in some areas (and I don't want either of them playing the 5 in most situations - would Bosh play at the 3?)

[mac222b]

IF Bosh is even available it would take something like Damp, Stack & our 1st rd. pick. Would that be enough? If that's the case and Toronto is rebuilding we should go all in and do a J-Ho for Marion sign and trade. That would leave the mid-level for a 2 guard like Felton or Jack. or use the LLE on Anthony Parker and change our name to the Dallas Raptors. I know this is a long shot and do we even find out early enough this summer to make it happen?. Milwaukee seems like they may be a natural trading partner. Jefferson would help, playing alongside Kidd.

[JamesVE]

Originally Posted by MX425

Ok, Is there anywhere on this site we can send people to learn about the salary cap? letting Kidd leave is a HORRIBLE idea. I am not arguing abilities (they are declining) or any other attribute besides dollars and cents. Kidd walks, we are screwed because now we have to use one of our assets to fill that void. We need to use those assets and get a young pg and allow him to develop(as well as a reliable #2 and a center). If we pay 11 mil to Kidd it will in no way hinder our ability to sign other players besides Cuban's check book. We are over the salary cap which means we cannot go out an offer contracts to free agents besides our MLE or vet min. We are though allowed to sign current players to a contract that is as large as we want due to something called "Bird rights." We sign Kidd for 2-3 years at around 8 mil and then when his contract is running out we can always use him as an expiring contract to some team looking to rebuild.

Keeping need is not a want, it is a must. we cannot have that value just walk out because there is no recouping it somewhere else. IT WILL BE GONE.

Yes, I understand that all of that - no need to act like I'm some noob fool. I may not post much but I'm no retard.

It's quite a leap to assume our current "assets" will allow us to get a potentially elite young PG to develop.

Nonetheless, you want to justify resigning him from a mere financial perspective? Right? Okay then do it, and then sit him on the bench. Kidd needs to be on a team with a load of athletes. That's why it boggled my mind he wanted to come here, boggled my mind we wanted him, and boggled my mind that anybody in their right mind thought he'd put us over the top.

I'd much rather have one awful season than win 35-40 games for the next couple of years with an increasingly declining Kidd at the helm. I don't care if we can eek out 45-50 wins, because it doesn't matter one bit if we can't beat any of the top 4-5 teams in the league.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I still don't quite get how Bosh and Dirk would work on the court at the same time...

Not that I'm against Bosh, I just don't get which position each one would play on offense/defense - they seem kinda redundant in some areas (and I don't want either of them playing the 5 in most situations - would Bosh play at the 3?)

I agree, on offense it's obviously pick your poison but Bosh can't really guard @ the 5 much better than Dirk and he can't stay with anyone @ the 3 so they basically cancel the offensive effectiveness out on D.

With Dirk being the type of player he is we need a center that can play every series and against all other centers and provide some sort of offense, and maybe at least pose a minor threat to shoot the ball and draw iron if they leave em alone. Upgrading at SG is even more important than @ Center.

I would liketo see Hollins improve this offseason, that is the kind of athleticism we need.

[joebobbill]

I'm interested in the future of Donnie Nelson. Will he stay or go?

My hope is that this become Carlisle's team. In the ideal situation, Carlisle kicks Cuban out of the GM role, fires Donnie and brings in his own GM. As long as Cuban continues to be GM, the yearly decline in talent will continue.

[sike]

When I think of Bosh at the 5...I don't get too bothered. There just are not many dominant physical low post bruisers any more that would punish him. I would love his long arms and active hands in the paint on D. Having said that, I certainly have not made a point to watch Raptors games, so I would gladly bow to those who have.

[BGMaverick9]

The question I have with Bosh:
Is Chris Bosh the next commander/star in waiting for after Dirk's time is up (whenever that may be)?

I think it's going to take Damp and Josh and maybe a filler to make Bosh an option. It gives them the salary relief and a 1-2 window to decide what to do with Josh...it'll keep them relatively alive in the East, and they get a lot cheaper in the process.
He's going to be due for a major extension, so that's going to make him rich and he'll have to be the star. So can Bosh carry the load? I have my concerns as well for how Bosh and Dirk work together. I can be sold on it, but I'm not totally familiar with Bosh.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by joebobbill

As long as Cuban continues to be GM, the yearly decline in talent will continue.

Yeah, because Mark Cuban is CLEARLY helming the worst era in the history of this franchise...

BRING BACK PEROT!!!

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, because Mark Cuban is CLEARLY helming the worst era in the history of this franchise...

BRING BACK PEROT!!!

I disagree....I think the mid 90s were worse.

Take THAT, SUCKER!!

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by alby

The thing with Kidd being old and all that BS, the truth of the matter is nobody in the NBA can stay with Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, etc. Look at Chris Paul vs. Chauncey in the first round.

People wanting Kidd to go are just not very smart.

They're all great players but they seem to play at an even higher level against us. Of course that's not all Kidd's fault.

People talk about the Salmons deal but the one that really hurt was Felton. That would give us some leverage against Kidd. As it stand he's got us by the testicles. We can't compete with Jet and J.J. running the point. If he leaves for nothing it's a wasted year.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

I disagree....I think the mid 90s were worse.

Take THAT, SUCKER!!

What's the word for "sarcasm" on your planet?

(or did I just not edit my post quickly enough?)

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

The question I have with Bosh:
Is Chris Bosh the next commander/star in waiting for after Dirk's time is up (whenever that may be)?

I think it's going to take Damp and Josh and maybe a filler to make Bosh an option. It gives them the salary relief and a 1-2 window to decide what to do with Josh...it'll keep them relatively alive in the East, and they get a lot cheaper in the process.
He's going to be due for a major extension, so that's going to make him rich and he'll have to be the star. So can Bosh carry the load? I have my concerns as well for how Bosh and Dirk work together. I can be sold on it, but I'm not totally familiar with Bosh.

Whoa, I don't know what it would take to get Bosh or if he is a great fit here, but for that I jump on it this evening. no?

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by joebobbill

I'm interested in the future of Donnie Nelson. Will he stay or go?

My hope is that this become Carlisle's team. In the ideal situation, Carlisle kicks Cuban out of the GM role, fires Donnie and brings in his own GM. As long as Cuban continues to be GM, the yearly decline in talent will continue.

Carlisle has never been a GM so there's not much of a track record to go on. I doubt Cuban's happy about the prospect of spending $2.4MM on Shawn Williams next year and that was probably a Carlisle trade.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Whoa, I don't know what it would take to get Bosh or if he is a great fit here, but for that I jump on it this evening. no?

It's definitely possible to take that. I think it's going to take AT LEAST that for it to be an option (they'll want Josh). You've gotta be sure that Bosh is a fit for you to do the move...or it's a waste.
-----------------

My grade for the players this year:

Dirk: A+
Jet: B+
Josh: C+
Kidd: A
Damp: C-
Bass: B
Barea: B-
Wright: B-
Hollins: B-
Singleton: C
Carroll: D
Green: D
Stack: F
George: D
Williams: Incomplete

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I love Kidd as a player (regardless of his obvious decline), but I don't think this team is currently set up well to utilize his talents and make up for his shortcomings...

Of course, that's the same problem we have with Dirk - this lineup is no longer a good fit for his skillset (although Dirk & Kidd compliment each other nicely...)

I really think Dirk would fit perfectly with Shaq. Their games would definitely compliment each other. I honestly can't imagine Cuban not trying to get Shaq. They are friendly, and Shaq has said he wants to be here.

Kidd is another story though. He is really going to need some seriously skilled athletic swings who can actually cut to the basket to utilize his skills. Tough call whether to keep him or not. Mavs absolutely need another younger pg regardless imo.

[sike]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

As it stand he's got us by the testicles.

why would he want to touch me there??

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

What's the word for "sarcasm" on your planet?

(or did I just not edit my post quickly enough?)

Sometimes I play a character called, "Doesn't get sarcasm guy"...its a hit with the ladies.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by sefant77

The problem with moving Jet this offseason is that every team with that need will go for Gordon, the younger version of Terry (i wrote it allready somewhere).

Gordon's a free agent though. Every team has a chance at him that's under the cap. Terry can be obtained by trade.

[sike]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It's definitely possible to take that. I think it's going to take AT LEAST that for it to be an option (they'll want Josh). You've gotta be sure that Bosh is a fit for you to do the move...or it's a waste.

I think Bosh is actually an easier player to build around than Dirk...I could be wrong, but just the fact that he is a more traditional 4 seems to help the process.

as far as the questions of how he would fit with Dirk or the Mavs....

#1 I think Dirk fits with just about anyone

#2 I think Bosh is the type of player that I would enjoy watching out team adjust to fit his style.

if we're going to make a splash...that would probably be my target name. but I have yet to really be right on who they'll acquire.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by alby

The thing with Kidd being old and all that BS, the truth of the matter is nobody in the NBA can stay with Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, etc. Look at Chris Paul vs. Chauncey in the first round.

People wanting Kidd to go are just not very smart.

Well one thing is for sure. He was outplayed by every point guard in this series. I just think Kidd's skill's would be best utilized with a team full of athletes and spot up shooters. That's something the Mavs lack. I don't think there's an option of whether or not we need Kidd to return. We gave up Devin Harris for him. To let him walk? For nothing? That would hurt and we would basically be where we were 3 years ago. Going backwards. I'm for Kidd coming back but he sure as hell can be replaced. Only guy on this team that deserves his spot is Dirk.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by sike

why would he want to touch me there??

Who said anything about touching...i'm talking vice grips.

[Zki41]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

My grade for the players this year:

Dirk: A+
Jet: B+
Josh: C+
Kidd: A
Damp: C-
Bass: B
Barea: B-
Wright: B-
Hollins: B-
Singleton: C
Carroll: D
Green: D
Stack: F
George: D
Williams: Incomplete

Are these relative compared to Dirk?

In terms of self-performance, I would have to say Barea and Singleton completely exceeded expectations.

The others are more or less accurate .. I'd be less forgiving on George and go ahead and tag him with the F.

[dirno2000]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Well one thing is for sure. He was outplayed by every point guard in this series. I just think Kidd's skill's would be best utilized with a team full of athletes and spot up shooters. That's something the Mavs lack. I don't think there's an option of whether or not we need Kidd to return. We gave up Devin Harris for him. To let him walk? For nothing? That would hurt and we would basically be where we were 3 years ago. Going backwards. I'm for Kidd coming back but he sure as hell can be replaced. Only guy on this team that deserves his spot is Dirk.

Yea, if I see him pass up one more wide open layup to dish the ball to the perimeter my remote is going through the tv.