Dirk and Kidd to Portland - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

SeriousSummer · 03-28-2008, 10:09 PM

For:

LaFrentz
Miles
Pryzbilla
Aldridge
Rodriguez
Fernandez (rights)
Freeland (rights)
Koponen (rights)
Frye

Time to start over.

Raef has one year left on his contract. Miles probably retires. Pryzbilla is a back up center, behind Damp. Aldridge/Frye/Freeland are the new fours. Rodriguez/Fernandez/Koponen are the new guards. Josh Howard remains the small forward and Bass backs him up. Let as many of the remaining players' contracts as possible expire. Trade JET and Stackhouse somewhere for something--maybe draft choices and expiring contracts.

Portland wins the NBA Championship next year with Oden/Dirk/Outlaw/Roy/Kidd--Blake/Webster/Jones/Jack and somebody at center are reserves enough.

spreedom · 03-28-2008, 10:20 PM

Trade Dirk? No thanks...

Flip41 · 03-28-2008, 10:55 PM

I don't know how long it would take to take one step forward after taking 1,000 steps back with that trade. No go for me.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 03-29-2008, 06:58 AM

I hope this is a joke.

horse900703 · 03-29-2008, 07:56 AM

wats the point to trade dirk?
do u still like the mavs?

Underdog · 03-29-2008, 09:07 AM

Funniest. Thread. Ever.

wesbrynt · 03-29-2008, 11:57 AM

Is it already april the first?

MaVs 41 BaLler · 03-29-2008, 11:59 AM

you guys really need to stop with these trades.........

MavsX · 03-29-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

For:

LaFrentz
Miles
Pryzbilla
Aldridge
Rodriguez
Fernandez (rights)
Freeland (rights)
Koponen (rights)
Frye

Time to start over.

Raef has one year left on his contract. Miles probably retires. Pryzbilla is a back up center, behind Damp. Aldridge/Frye/Freeland are the new fours. Rodriguez/Fernandez/Koponen are the new guards. Josh Howard remains the small forward and Bass backs him up. Let as many of the remaining players' contracts as possible expire. Trade JET and Stackhouse somewhere for something--maybe draft choices and expiring contracts.

Portland wins the NBA Championship next year with Oden/Dirk/Outlaw/Roy/Kidd--Blake/Webster/Jones/Jack and somebody at center are reserves enough.

this is how i feel when reading your idea.

SeriousSummer · 04-19-2008, 11:45 PM

Time to bring this back. Right now (well, maybe) the Mavs can still get premium value for Dirk and Kidd. A deal like this means only a year or two out of the playoffs and then the team is strong again.

The alternative is 3 or 4 more years of struggling to get in the playoffs and then hoping to win a game in the first round. Then Dirk and Kidd are gone and it's lottery hell for most of a decade.

Other than Dirk and Kidd, the Mavs have plenty of nothing. Nobody gives you anything useful for Terry or Dampier or Stackhouse. The Mavs only have one first round draft choice in the next three years and no room under the cap to sign free agents. You might get equal value for Howard--but that still leaves with either Howard or his equivalent. Even Jerry Stackhouse won't play forever.

Think of this deal as a last humanitarian gesture to let Dirk and Kidd have a chance at that NBA championship.

chumdawg · 04-19-2008, 11:54 PM

Or you just trade Howard for a shooting guard and reload.

SeriousSummer · 04-20-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Or you just trade Howard for a shooting guard and reload.

Then who plays small forward?

You aren't really any better off doing that. Stackhouse is on his last legs. The Mavs only have six useful players:

Dirk
Kidd
Damp
Josh Howard
Terry
Bass

Those players only include one real swingman. Terry is a shooting guard that is too small to start. There isn't a backup center. The team doesn't have enough scoring and is getting old. Next year half those players will be over 30 and Josh and Terry will be getting close to 30. Only Bass is young.

I don't think there is enough left to reload with--the Mavs need at least three more players to compete effectively: a starting shooting guard; a back up center; and another swingman. They could also use a younger reserve point guard.

But unless Donnie Nelson pulls a rabbit out of a hat, you're going to have to find those players in free agency or the second round of the draft. I don't see much trading material. The draft choices are gone and there's no cap room.

chumdawg · 04-20-2008, 12:15 AM

Rayshawn Terry? Antoine Wright? It's about time for a youth movement here. A deep-minute swingman is the least of my concerns. Give me a stud shooting guard and I'll take my chances with Bass or Stack or George or someone else at small forward.

mqywaaah · 04-20-2008, 12:31 AM

I seriously hope this is a joke. I mean, it's already summer here and I know what the heat can do to eff up an individuals mind. But not like this. Wow. Summer craze?

LSMF · 04-20-2008, 11:14 AM

As much as I hate this Idea its very realistic, if Avery isn't fired and the right pieces aren't put around Dirk and Kidd then they should be traded. Ad much as we would hate that its realistic, its unfair for two aging hall of famers to waste their few remaining years because of a moron coach and weak options on the bench and the starting lineup. Cubes should put the right pieces around them or trade them. I hope he puts the right pieces around them.

Robillion · 04-20-2008, 12:21 PM

No way in hell should we trade Dirk at any point and no way in hell should we trade Kidd until next summer, not this summer (b/c next summer his contract is up and that means he will be a huuuge trade piece for teams looking for cap relief the next summer to get a big time free agent.. or two at Kidd's price) .

The main piece that needs to go is Avery Johnson. Once that happens that changes the entire dynamic of this team (even more so depending on the replacement of course).This is the most important move the team could make and should make.

I do think that Howard needs to go and a top shooting guard come in. I wonder if Howard could bring in someone like Redd.. but I doubt it. Howard plus Stack? I dont know, but the thought of Redd here at the starting two with Kidd and Dirk makes me salivate. .. I think we should keep Terry because if he is used correctly he can be a deadly force for the team. If he isnt than he hurts us. I believe a new coach with any sense would be able to use him to his strengths.

We do need a legitmate back up center, but I believe that need is moreso because Avery will not play a legitimate backup center. Magloire probably could be a legit back up C, but he is not able to be developed under AJ. It is all about potential with him. He has it.. he isnt that old, and he was an all-star in the not-so-distant past. I still believe in his potential but he needs that right coach to bring that out in him.. and the same goes for any back up C that we could pick up off the waiver wire or through a small time trade. .. with all that being said. I would love to have Diop back. Even if that meant giving back Allen/Magloire.. if that option was available.

I have a ton of faith in Bass and his development as a player. He is sooo much potential, and I think it would be a HUGE mistake for him to leave this summer... especially for like likes of Bonzi Wells which I am hearing a lot about lately. I HATE that idea. Bonzi Wells would be good here, but please PLEASE dont trade Bass for him. I believe that Bass has the potential to be a starter at some point.. and already I think on other teams. He needs to develop his defense (which he can be a good shot blocker on occasion and can be a good rebounder). The main thing is.. be should NOT or ever play at the 5 position. He is not a center. He is and should be a forward and be developed as such. He is a great mid-range shooter. Is very aggressive. Of course he would never take Dirk's spot (till he is gone) but I would not feel terrible about a starting lineup of Kidd, Wright, Bass, Dirk, Damp. But also, in a sense. Bass is more of a PF than Dirk is.. and Dirk is more of a SF than Bass.. when taking into account how they naturally play rather than their size.

We have players that can be the swingmen we need, but we need them developed. We have Wright, Allen, Rayshawn Terry. Bringing in someone else that is more proven would be great though but that does NOT mean someone with finals appearances that is 40 years old.

More realistically.. and much MUCH better for the Mavs than what has been proposed in this thread.. would for the new roster to look something like this.

New coach

Kidd / Lue
Redd / Terry
Wright / Bass / Allen
Dirk / Bass / Allen
Damp / Diop?/Magloire?/?

SeriousSummer · 04-21-2008, 10:59 AM

Kidd's expiring deal is next year, if you wait until the summer of 2009, then he's a free agent and you can't trade him except in a sign and trade.

Josh Howard isn't worth Michael Redd (but maybe you could sweeten the deal a little--who knows what direction Milwaukee is going now--so that's worth a try).

Bass and Allen can't defend the 3. Wright at 6'6" is a little small for the 3, so I still don't think you've solved your problem there.

I didn't expect this to be a popular proposal (I love watching Dirk and Kidd is a great player), but if you wait until the players all age out, then you are condemned to years of frustration. I don't think it is worth it for a couple more years of 7 or 8 seeds and first round eliminations.

Dallas has a unique opportunity to do a deal--someone will--with Portland. Portland has more players, rights to players and draft picks than roster spots. And quite a number of those players are valuable--Rudy Fernandez is probably the best guard in Europe now. Probably better than either Calderon or Navarro, who have both proven themselves to be NBA players.

Aldridge is from Texas (Dallas, even) and is a major talent. I think you could get them both, salary filler with short term deals (LaFrentz and Miles) and some selection of other players, right to players and draft picks from Portland. Portland becomes an immediate title contender.

Dallas builds around Aldridge and Fernandez, who in two years will be a better combination than Dirk/Kidd. Dallas is out of the playoffs for just one year (next year, when Dallas still has its 1st round pick) and then is back in the playoffs in 2009-2010 and is a team on the way up.

dalmations202 · 04-21-2008, 11:10 AM

IMO,

You make that trade, and Dallas is out of the playoffs for at least 3 years maybe more. They would be out of the big Red, but not have enough of the "right" talent to win, and high draft picks have already been traded away.

Aldridge is not as good a Dirk. Fernandez hasn't proven to be as good as Kidd. No one else on that roster gives you the slasher needed in todays NBA to be marketable.

Dallas would be better off trying to get JO, and Magette without giving up Dirk/Kidd.

Inside scoring threat, and a legitimate slasher to play the wing with Dirk/Kidd would be hard to beat --- if they stressed defense like Avery likes to do.

IMO, this team needs Dirk, and at least two other offensive threats, along with Kidd, and a defensive force.

Can you move Stack, Terry, JHo, Bass for (JRich, Magette, ??) and (JO, ??)? I don't know, but that is the path I would take.

SeriousSummer · 04-21-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

IMO,

IMO, this team needs Dirk, and at least two other offensive threats, along with Kidd, and a defensive force.

Can you move Stack, Terry, JHo, Bass for (JRich, Magette, ??) and (JO, ??)? I don't know, but that is the path I would take.

I just don't think it's doable.

If you don't trade Dirk and Kidd, then the only significant assets Dallas has are Josh Howard and Jason Terry. Dallas needs a starting shooting guard and a back up center--minimum. That gives you Kidd, Dirk, a defensive force (Damp), and two offensive threats (Josh Howard and the new shooting guard). You should be able to fill the back up center spot with the MLE.

But you can't get a good 2 for Terry--he's a too short 2 that can play a little point. Why would anybody do that deal (unless they had two good shooting guards and no point at all and nobody else would make a deal for a point?--that seems unlikely). If you trade Josh, then you need a small forward, so you are still a player short.

I don't see anyone on the team that can fill one of those roles--Wright is the only possibility, or maybe Rayshown Terry? I don't think those guys have enough talent.

The current team doesn't look to me like it has enough for another championship run.

bernardos70 · 04-21-2008, 11:53 AM

I'm gonna have to put aside any subtlety on this post and say:

Freaking go to hell man........

DelNegro · 04-21-2008, 01:22 PM

Portland has a core that very soon will be ready to compete for the next decade. Why would they mortgage so many years of their future to take on a 35 year old Jason Kidd and a 30 year old Dirk?

bernardos70 · 04-21-2008, 01:54 PM

Thank you. It's bad for them, it's the end for us.

dalmations202 · 04-21-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Portland has a core that very soon will be ready to compete for the next decade. Why would they mortgage so many years of their future to take on a 35 year old Jason Kidd and a 30 year old Dirk?

They can't pay them all, and LBJ, DHoward, Kobe, and Durant will have something to say about it.

If Oden really is, and the can keep Aldridge and Roy --- they will be very good for quite some time though.

Eventually it catches up in today cap structure though unless you have the #1 or #2 player in the league.

SeriousSummer · 04-21-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Portland has a core that very soon will be ready to compete for the next decade. Why would they mortgage so many years of their future to take on a 35 year old Jason Kidd and a 30 year old Dirk?

They have 13 players under contract for next year, 3 talented players in Europe (Fernandez, Freeland & Kaponen) and a bunch of draft choices over the next two years.

Portland can keep its core (Oden and Roy), trade a bunch of young guys or draft rights and still bring in a couple of stars--and be good now, as well as for years to come.

dalmations202 · 04-21-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

I just don't think it's doable.

If you don't trade Dirk and Kidd, then the only significant assets Dallas has are Josh Howard and Jason Terry. Dallas needs a starting shooting guard and a back up center--minimum. That gives you Kidd, Dirk, a defensive force (Damp), and two offensive threats (Josh Howard and the new shooting guard). You should be able to fill the back up center spot with the MLE.

But you can't get a good 2 for Terry--he's a too short 2 that can play a little point. Why would anybody do that deal (unless they had two good shooting guards and no point at all and nobody else would make a deal for a point?--that seems unlikely). If you trade Josh, then you need a small forward, so you are still a player short.

I don't see anyone on the team that can fill one of those roles--Wright is the only possibility, or maybe Rayshown Terry? I don't think those guys have enough talent.

The current team doesn't look to me like it has enough for another championship run.

I disagree, Dallas needs a starting swingman that attacks the rim consistently and has the officials respect (it really doesn't matter if it is a SG or SF). Dallas also needs an inside threat that is C which can play D.

If JO (or another palyer who is basically 7', athletic, and has a low-post game), plays inside, then Dirk can play the outside (shooter/slasher/iso). When he is on the bench, then Dallas needs an attacking swing that can get easy buckets. Wright could play the SG, if all he needs to do is defend and hit the occasional wide open three. (I'd bet he would do the offensive side better than Bruce Bowen). Kidd is still very good at the PG, and Lue is definitely adequate as a backup.

Terry can be a dagger and sharpshooter -- but then Dallas depends on it, and you live/die by the jumper. I don't like it because that leaves you vulnerable. If Dallas loses to the jumper, I want it to be Dirks.

Can Dallas afford Magette and JO without losing Damp, Dirk, or Kidd -- probably not, but I wish they would at least try. If not, then at least try to find someone with the skillsets. They need a swing that excels at slashing, and a center that has inside game both of which are very good defensively - to go with Dirk and Kidd.

That would make Damp the backup C (very nice roll for him), and a lineup of

Kidd, Lue
Wright
Magette
Dirk -- I'd keep Allen as well
JO, Damp

Your other swing from the list of RTerry, EJones, DGeorge, Stack, or "other" would be all you would really have to worry about.

Stranger · 04-21-2008, 05:31 PM

Raef LaFrentz... yes!

DelNegro · 04-21-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

They can't pay them all, and LBJ, DHoward, Kobe, and Durant will have something to say about it.

If Oden really is, and the can keep Aldridge and Roy --- they will be very good for quite some time though.

Eventually it catches up in today cap structure though unless you have the #1 or #2 player in the league.

True, they can't pay them all. But, Aldridge and Roy are the two guys you absolutely pay to keep. They do need to make a deal to consolidate some assets, but they can do that without having to include Aldridge.

DelNegro · 04-21-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

They have 13 players under contract for next year, 3 talented players in Europe (Fernandez, Freeland & Kaponen) and a bunch of draft choices over the next two years.

Portland can keep its core (Oden and Roy), trade a bunch of young guys or draft rights and still bring in a couple of stars--and be good now, as well as for years to come.

Or they can recognize that Aldridge is part of that core, keep him along with Roy and Oden and still have enough trade assets to go out and get another star. They don't have to give up Aldridge to get another piece to the puzzle.

Tokey41 · 04-21-2008, 06:14 PM

Portland laughs and hangs up...

If it did go through I would go find another team, seriously. We trade away our two best players for virtually nothing? We would need to get Roy or Oden out of the deal at the very least. Even then I wouldn't do the trade, we put all our chips in so maybe by some miracle we can actually pull this off... no turning back now.

Robillion · 04-21-2008, 08:47 PM

If it did go through.. I would move to Portland...

Unless Lebron James comes to Dallas, I would not be a fan of a Mavericks team that does not have Dirk on it.

Serious Sam is seriously retarded in this proposal.. Im sorry, but SeriousSam.. it is straight up ridiculous. This team needs a new coach more than anything. The rest that follow are (but not limited to): a true starting shooting guard that can defend, an aggressive slasher that also plays aggressive defense, and a more effective low post presence. These things can definitely be had without giving up Dirk or Kidd. Now if a good opportunity presents itself to give up Kidd for some good pieces then I am down, but it should not happen until the last trade window of next season, definitely not this summer. You wait until teams are desperate. .. Dirk being traded.. that should never be mentioned unless it is for Lebron James.

The main point of everything is that we are not a terrible team as it stands.. we have a few bad eggs and a retarded rooster protecting them. Fire the rooster, throw out the bad eggs... and we have potential again. Hell, we still have potential with this current team but I just wouldn't want to go through another year full of hope to be shot down again. We are a hell of a lot better than most NBA teams.... let real bad teams tear each other apart, that is how they stay bad.

things that should be done:
-fire Avery... hire someone that will let players play basketball, AND is defense minded
-trade/drop Josh Howard, Stackhouse, George, Juwan Howard, Eddie Jones(retire)
-keep Bass at most costs! I say at most costs because if a starting piece is available and they have to have Bass (which could likely be the case in most cases) then maybe go it
-pick up 1 or 2 from this group (Mike Miller, Michael Redd, Corey Maggette, Ron Artest. J Rich, G. Wallace, ect)

I have faith that Damp can be an asset on offense.. he just needs a better offensive scheme and for Kidd to be allowed to make plays for him. I have faith in Terry under a new coach as well.. that he can be taken advantage of effectively. I think Allen and Lue can be assets. I know Bass can be. I do not have faith in Howard and the rest are too old and/or bad and/or stupid.

SeriousSummer · 04-21-2008, 09:14 PM

Here's the problem with all you unreasonably optimistic folk:

"-pick up 1 or 2 from this group (Mike Miller, Michael Redd, Corey Maggette, Ron Artest. J Rich, G. Wallace, ect)"

It can't be done with what the Mavs have to offer.

So, do the Mavs have enough to compete for a championship? Do they need a new coach? Or is it time to rebuild?

Robillion · 04-21-2008, 09:26 PM

You telling me that Jason Kidd's contract and Josh Howard couldnt pull in two of the people on that list? I beg to differ.. it is definitely possible. .. You are talking about giving up Dirk and that is rediculous and franchise suicide. People still resent the Mavs for giving up Nash to the point that they are no longer fans. Dirk leaving.. no reason for me to be a mavs fan.

The team needs some adjustments this summer.. namely getting a new coach. Then if we would get a better deal in the last trade window of next season then we wait till then. The team is couple trades away from being a top notch team... not many years away by blowing up and rebuilding.

SeriousSummer · 04-21-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robillion

You telling me that Jason Kidd's contract and Josh Howard couldnt pull in two of the people on that list? I beg to differ.. it is definitely possible. .. You are talking about giving up Dirk and that is rediculous and franchise suicide. People still resent the Mavs for giving up Nash to the point that they are no longer fans. Dirk leaving.. no reason for me to be a mavs fan.

The team needs some adjustments this summer.. namely getting a new coach. Then if we would get a better deal in the last trade window of next season then we wait till then. The team is couple trades away from being a top notch team... not many years away by blowing up and rebuilding.

What trade do you think could work? Howard and Kidd for JRich and Wallace?

People say you ought to be able to do this or that, but except for incredible brain farts, like Memphis trading Pau Gasol, most of the proposed trades are unrealistic.

Tokey41 · 04-21-2008, 10:37 PM

Diop, first round picks, and KVH's contract for Miller would have worked... SO beautifully for this team.

Memphis is in salary dumping mode, we need that type of two guard. Unfortunately that can't happen now.

Your solution doesn't work because we are in no position to rebuild, we gave away all our draft picks, we don't have any current youth except Bass, and we have no forseeable future, only present. You can't live in the future, we have to win now because we've decided thats our best shot. It could happen...

spreedom · 04-21-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Or you just trade Howard for a shooting guard and reload.

Josh straight up for J-Rich, anyone? Would the Cats do it?

Lor20 · 04-22-2008, 12:35 AM

whats the point in blowing it up when u were the 1 seed last year and were 6 games out of the 1 seed even though you had injury trouble and a big midseason adjustment? blowing a team up never gives you a guarantee that it will be better than this current team. i agree on a new coach because i dont think averies basketball works in playoffs unless our players click on all cylinders like in 2006 for the longest time.
we are only down 1-0 - not 3-0.

Robillion · 04-22-2008, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Josh straight up for J-Rich, anyone? Would the Cats do it?

I would think of that as a lateral move.. and yes I do think that Cats would take that.

Tokey41 · 04-22-2008, 11:27 AM

Richardson would benefit from Kidd more than Josh has thus far. But I don't think the Cats would do it... they already have Wallace.

Would be a great move for us though.

SeriousSummer · 04-23-2008, 08:14 AM

Spreedom, Flip41, Mavswillhave rings, Underdog, WesBrynt, Mavs41Baller, MavsX, Chumdawg, mqywaah, Robillion, Dalmations202, Bernardos70, Tokey41 and Lor20--are you guys with me now? Have you seen the light?

Or are you still holding on to your Braniff stock? Still sure the South will rise again? Still think Disco will return?

It's been a great run, but the smart money (and I think--at least hope--that Mark Cuban is smart money) know that the time to make your sale and cut your losses is just before the bottom completely drops out of the market.

Dallas can retool and be back in a year or two, but it's going to take guts and smarts.

Underdog · 04-23-2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

Spreedom, Flip41, Mavswillhave rings, Underdog, WesBrynt, Mavs41Baller, MavsX, Chumdawg, mqywaah, Robillion, Dalmations202, Bernardos70, Tokey41 and Lor20--are you guys with me now? Have you seen the light?

See what light??? I'd trade everyone BUT Dirk & Kidd... I sure as shit wouldn't hand Portland a Championship, and if we DID trade Dirk/Kidd to the Blazers, I'd be a Portland fan since Dallas sold the f*ck out...

I'm glad Mark Cuban and SeriousSummer aren't the same person, otherwise I'd have zero interest in the NBA anymore...