Josh Howard owes the fans an apology - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

uberfan · 03-07-2008, 06:16 AM

Josh Howard owes the fans an apology...and so does Stackhouse and Terry. There is no excuse for their performance or lack there of. If Josh cannot give the effort consistently for whatever reason,then he needs to tell the coach to sit and play someone else like Wright.
George gets Stack's minutes, and when Tyronn Lue takes JET's spot.

Enough is enough. Put players on the floor who act like they want to be on the court.

endrity · 03-07-2008, 06:42 AM

Terry was trying last night man, he has been pretty active since Kidd arrived. Stack has been Stack and will continue to be Stack.

But Josh.... what the f... happened here???? How did he go from borderline All Star, unreplacable in the lineup, better than Marion in everything he did, to this? I have never seen a player take such a nosedive in 2-3 months. I don't know if it was the 47 points game, or the fact he feels like a scorer now and therefore doesn't have to do other thing, but he is horrible on the floor. Seriously, Devean George looks like he cares more than Howard right now.

ghazi · 03-07-2008, 07:09 AM

I am stunned at Howard's dropoff. Month by month this year, his PPG, FG%, FT%, and 3 PT shooting % has gone down... he made 21 of his 43 3-PT attempts in December but has only connected on 22 of his last 82... I dread when he shoots a 3 now and days.

What the HELL is the explanation? Is it simply a lack of effort? He's shown flashes of his former self against San Antonio and Utah, but he's been soooo ridiculously inconsistent... and his basketball IQ SUCKS.

I can't believe there was a point in this season where I thought Josh Howard had become better than Dirk nowitzki (like in December)... I'm an idiot, no doubt

shaw-xx · 03-07-2008, 07:47 AM

For the sake of the team Cuban, replace whomever you want to in the summer.

Zaknaf3in · 03-07-2008, 07:51 AM

Josh Howard never was in the best-player-on-this-team-race in the first place.

ghazi · 03-07-2008, 07:58 AM

Yeah I know, I was just unable to watch Mavs games in December that weren't nationally televised and made assumptions based on his stats going up and Dirks going down... especially the statline againts Utah.

quiet riot act · 03-07-2008, 08:03 AM

avery has turned josh howard into antoine walker

avery johnson is the bubonic plague

muzak · 03-07-2008, 08:10 AM

He's just showing his true colors -- the LAST pick.

jthig32 · 03-07-2008, 08:18 AM

Josh played awfully well against Utah for people to be saying these kinds of things after this game.

Look, Josh is not capable of carrying the offensive load for a team against a good defender. He's just not that kind of player.

So really, I'm not upset about his game last night.

Let's see if he continues to come around in the coming games with Dirk back.

EricaLubarsky · 03-07-2008, 08:50 AM

Utah he had some good attempts. Then there were times where at the :20 mark he tried to drive right, was stopped, dribbled twice and jacked up a 20-21 footer. It also happened that on each of those occasions the Jazz went on 6-0 runs or more after his shot.

Last night he basically never drove in the halfcourt. He was horrible.

Its not that he cant play 1v5, its that his shot selection and maturity suck.

u2sarajevo · 03-07-2008, 11:44 AM

Josh was just missing the shots he's supposed to miss. No surprises there.

foglemann · 03-07-2008, 11:55 AM

Until Avery is gone, we can just keep these 3 in the same overrated catagory. Its Avery's bible study group, he never punishes them when they take a crappy shot or are consistently shooting jumpers, yet he still plays them and gripes about it after the game. Its come to the point where if we don't get rid of Avery, Josh, Stack, and Terry will keep sucking the life out of this team.

Underdog · 03-07-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberfan

Josh Howard owes the fans an apology...and so does Stackhouse and Terry. There is no excuse for their performance or lack there of. If Josh cannot give the effort consistently for whatever reason,then he needs to tell the coach to sit and play someone else like Wright.
George gets Stack's minutes, and when Tyronn Lue takes JET's spot.

Enough is enough. Put players on the floor who act like they want to be on the court.

The players don't owe the fans anything, ever - get over yourself...

(I was wondering how a guy who has over a thousand posts could have no rep...)

destroy ALL · 03-07-2008, 12:26 PM

josh is really frustrating me. i alwaysed loved josh's game on and off the court. i thought howards game would elevate the most with kidd running the point but it has done nothing! when kidds first play in dallas was the alley opp to josh in the new orleans game happened i thought this is the beginning of something special, but it's totally opposite. since that oop, there has been nothing even close to that connection from kidd to j-ho. WEIRD!!

it also seems that every mav to grab a rebound immediately dishes it out to kidd EXCEPT for josh, who brings it up court himself, does crazy dribbling with his longass arms, loses it, gathers himself, steps back and misses a fadaway?!

it seems that josh is protesting the kidd trade by playing bad, casue him and harris were friends or something, but this is ridiculous.

LonghornDub · 03-07-2008, 12:30 PM

Can anyone really complain about what Jason Terry has done for this team? I realize he's not a great defender, but come on. He's done some really great things for us, often on his own.

fluid.forty.one · 03-07-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

The players don't owe the fans anything, ever - get over yourself...

Josh howard owes me five dolla!

uberfan · 03-07-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

The players don't owe the fans anything, ever - get over yourself...

(I was wondering how a guy who has over a thousand posts could have no rep...)

As long as you feel that way you must be perfectly satisfied with what you presently see on the court for the Mavs. Good for you. I don't.

If your comments reflect what it means to have "rep", well that is something I can do without. That kind of rep is meaningless.

Underdog · 03-07-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberfan

As long as you feel that way you must be perfectly satisfied with what you presently see on the court for the Mavs. Good for you. I don't.

No, I'm not satisfied with what I see on the court, but c'mon - an apology?

Why would a professional athlete apologize to a fickle, knee-jerking sports fan when said fan will probably jump ship & root for another team once the playoffs roll around anyway?

Lor20 · 03-07-2008, 12:46 PM

in all fairness i think josh still isnt 100% fit. Why avery plays him that many minutes is beyond me though since that wont help josh at all (as evident after 9 not so great to miserable games).

FINtastic · 03-07-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Can anyone really complain about what Jason Terry has done for this team? I realize he's not a great defender, but come on. He's done some really great things for us, often on his own.

Exactly, why in the world is Terry getting lumped in with the team's two boneheads? I'm not saying Terry doesn't make mistakes, but he plays much more cognizant of his strengths and weaknesses. I can't fault for Terry being what he is as long as he's not killing the team by being selfish and trying to do way more than he is capable of. I can't say that about the other two.

jleefilled · 03-07-2008, 03:41 PM

I don't think Josh dropped off, but I think he is having trouble producing now that the Mavs' offense doesn't go through him in isolation sets as much. Over the past few years, Josh has become a very good iso-offensive player, as evidenced by the 47 points he scored in December. I think we need to give Josh some time to get use to playing with Kidd. I'm optimistic that he'll figure it out. If he doesn't, though, I think we can basically rule out the Mavs winning the championship this year -- or even a playoff series for that matter.

Dirkenstien · 03-07-2008, 03:43 PM

Howard and Terry for Marion works.

I love those guys but if Wright could step up into the lineup next year we could potentially have a pretty big back court with size that can defend and shoot 3's:

Damp / Mag?
Dirk / Bass
Marion / George?
Wright / Stackhouse
Kidd / Lue?

Miami would get a little younger and would fill out their roster more with two quality players plus their draft picks.

A young core of Wade, Howard and someone like Beasley or Rose would be good in the East.

Dallas would become a more athletic and bigger team. Most importantly, though, we would finally have a guy that could match up with the Kobe's of the NBA in Marion. Marion would also be a godsend to Kidd as Marion obviously knows how to play with a great passing PG.

Murphy3 · 03-07-2008, 04:04 PM

Howard isn't a smart player... AJ isn't a good coach. The Mavs are in alot of trouble unless Dirk plays like one of the 2-3 best players in the league the rest of the way out.

LSMF · 03-07-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Howard and Terry for Marion works.

I love those guys but if Wright could step up into the lineup next year we could potentially have a pretty big back court with size that can defend and shoot 3's:

Damp / Mag?
Dirk / Bass
Marion / George?
Wright / Stackhouse
Kidd / Lue?

Miami would get a little younger and would fill out their roster more with two quality players plus their draft picks.

A young core of Wade, Howard and someone like Beasley or Rose would be good in the East.

Dallas would become a more athletic and bigger team. Most importantly, though, we would finally have a guy that could match up with the Kobe's of the NBA in Marion. Marion would also be a godsend to Kidd as Marion obviously knows how to play with a great passing PG.

That would be a freakin dream come true!! And if we could also get rid of avery as well this team would be sensational. Does anyone know if Mark Cuban still "loves his team"?

BGMaverick9 · 03-07-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Howard and Terry for Marion works.

I love those guys but if Wright could step up into the lineup next year we could potentially have a pretty big back court with size that can defend and shoot 3's:

Damp / Mag?
Dirk / Bass
Marion / George?
Wright / Stackhouse
Kidd / Lue?

Miami would get a little younger and would fill out their roster more with two quality players plus their draft picks.

A young core of Wade, Howard and someone like Beasley or Rose would be good in the East.

Dallas would become a more athletic and bigger team. Most importantly, though, we would finally have a guy that could match up with the Kobe's of the NBA in Marion. Marion would also be a godsend to Kidd as Marion obviously knows how to play with a great passing PG.

I would try to use the FULL MLE to get a legit 2 guard to go with that squad

LonghornDub · 03-07-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Exactly, why in the world is Terry getting lumped in with the team's two boneheads? I'm not saying Terry doesn't make mistakes, but he plays much more cognizant of his strengths and weaknesses. I can't fault for Terry being what he is as long as he's not killing the team by being selfish and trying to do way more than he is capable of. I can't say that about the other two.

Yeah, Terry is far from a bonehead like those 2 guys. Terry actually plays the game he's physically capable of playing.

mav_love · 03-10-2008, 10:25 PM

sorry if this has been discussed already. i just read Art Garcia's interview with Josh Howard. the dude is flat out pissed off and seems to feel dissed by not being the "Robin" anymore on this team.

http://mavscourtsideview.blogspot.co...d-to-bond.html

Josh and Kidd need to bond

Dirk Nowitzki is thriving with Jason Kidd. The Kidd connection looks pretty strong with Erick Dampier, too, and lately with Jerry Stackhouse. Overall, the Mavericks seem to be catching on to their new quarterback.

Josh Howard, though, is the notable exception. The team’s second-leading leading scorer is in somewhat of a funk since Kidd hit town.

“If I could really say I don’t want to talk about this I would,” Howard said Monday night prior facing New York. “It’s just about us playing together. We’ve been playing together, but we really haven’t been playing together that long, so it’s hard to say.”

Howard was averaging 20.3 points before Kidd debuted on Feb. 20. In the first 10 games with Kidd, leading up to the Knicks, Howard’s averaged 15.7 points and shot 38.4 percent.

There are, of course, other reasons for his struggles, both physical and emotional. Howard was dealing with a sore lower back around the time of the trade. He also dealt with a couple deaths in the family.

“I don’t want to overanalyze it,” Avery Johnson said Howard and Kidd not connecting. “It hadn’t happened the way we wanted it to, but it will. We’ve seen some stuff on film that we think can help.

“Everybody in the world should be happy to play with Kidd. He wants to get you the ball. The more that Josh runs with vision, and keeps his eyes on Kidd at all times, I think it will happen because Kidd’s skill set is tailor made, in my opinion, for an athlete like Josh.”

Howard hopes the bond is growing with Kidd. He realizes it has to if the Mavs are going to maximize their scoring potential.

“Kidd’s the head of the snake running the offense,” Howard said. “We’ve got our MVP scoring points and that’s a good thing. We’ve got people around us, with Stack being able to come through for us.

“Guys are willing to come in and sacrifice, that’s what we need. It’s kind of like the same situation two or three years ago. We had guys that knew their roles. I think everybody is figuring out their roles.

Posted by Art Garcia at 9:15 PM

jthig32 · 03-10-2008, 10:27 PM

I'm not so sure that's a fair assessment from those quotes.

Josh is going to be fine.

chumdawg · 03-10-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not so sure that's a fair assessment from those quotes.

Josh is going to be fine.

I wouldn't be so sure. Hearing him mention the word "sacrifice" raises red flags. Really, how else can you reconcile that?

To my eye, Howard's offensive upside is no greater than an Antawn Jamison. Now, he could be a better player than Jamison if he would bring more defense to go along with it. But when he's talking sacrifice, I'm pretty sure he is not concentrating on the defensive end of the floor.

sike · 03-10-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

To my eye, Howard's offensive upside is no greater than an Antawn Jamison.

Josh moves better with the ball...Antawn moves better without...but I'd be pretty satisfied if Josh consistently put up Jamison-like numbers...would you not?

jthig32 · 03-10-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I wouldn't be so sure. Hearing him mention the word "sacrifice" raises red flags. Really, how else can you reconcile that?

To my eye, Howard's offensive upside is no greater than an Antawn Jamison. Now, he could be a better player than Jamison if he would bring more defense to go along with it. But when he's talking sacrifice, I'm pretty sure he is not concentrating on the defensive end of the floor.

He didn't say anything negative about sacrificing. If you're taking it like that then you're doing nothing but assuming.

He said guys need to sacrifice and they are. I don't see anything wrong with any of those quotes.

chumdawg · 03-10-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Josh moves better with the ball...Antawn moves better without...but I'd be pretty satisfied if Josh consistently put up Jamison-like numbers...would you not?

Josh is a little bit slicker with the ball, but not to any great effect. He can use his handles to get to off a midrange jumper, but he's not that great at that, so what good is it? Antwan can get off a shot in the post well better than Josh...but Howard doesn't go there anyway, so the point is moot.

They are very, very similar players on the offensive end. If Howard isn't going to bring anything more on the defensive end, I'd take Jamison every day and twice on Sunday.

chumdawg · 03-10-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

He didn't say anything negative about sacrificing. If you're taking it like that then you're doing nothing but assuming.

He said guys need to sacrifice and they are. I don't see anything wrong with any of those quotes.

I don't think we are on the same page here. He said "sacrifice." What, exactly, is he talking about?

jthig32 · 03-10-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't think we are on the same page here. He said "sacrifice." What, exactly, is he talking about?

Sacrifice as in play a role that he thinks might be slightly beneath them. Fill a role when he feels like he could be filling a bigger role, but for the good of the team he plays a lesser part in the offense.

Stack has done it, Jet has done it, and Josh needs to do it, and it sounds like he recognizes it. Sounds good to me.

sike · 03-10-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't think we are on the same page here. He said "sacrifice." What, exactly, is he talking about?

when i hear Howard say "sacrifice" it sounds like he is thinking it will cost his game something....

when instead he should be seeing all the potential positives Kidd brings....especially to him.

jthig32 · 03-10-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

when i hear Howard say "sacrifice" it sounds like he is thinking it will cost his game something....

I'm sure he does. And I gurantee you Stack thinks he has cost his game a bit coming off the bench these years in Dallas. And I'll bet you anything that Jet feels like he's having to sacrifice getting moved in and out of the starting lineup after being one of the cornerstones of this franchise for a coupe years.

But as long as the player does it without causing a fuss, there's no problem.

sike · 03-10-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm sure he does. And I gurantee you Stack thinks he has cost his game a bit coming off the bench these years in Dallas. And I'll bet you anything that Jet feels like he's having to sacrifice getting moved in and out of the starting lineup after being one of the cornerstones of this franchise for a coupe years.

But as long as the player does it without causing a fuss, there's no problem.

But this move should benefit Josh's offensive numbers...if he will run he will get far more easy buckets...I see the "sacrifice" you speak of for the others two....but not for Josh....this is all +++ for him.

LonghornDub · 03-10-2008, 11:00 PM

Sounds like chum thinks Josh is referring to other guys sacrificing so that he can continue to be a 2nd scoring option. Or maybe i"m misinterpreting?

I tend to agree with thig--sounds to me like Josh is referring to everybody as needing to sacrifice, including himself.

jthig32 · 03-10-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

But this move should benefit Josh's offensive numbers...if he will run he will far more easy buckets...I see the "sacrifice" you speak of for the others two....but not for Josh....this is all +++ for him.

But he also doesn't get as much offensive freedom as he used to have. He's also now the third banana on the team and getting very little attention from the media. Basic human nature is probably going to make some people just a tiny bit resentful of that, no matter how good it is for the overall team.

I'm not saying Josh has had a good transition. He obviously hasn't. But I dont' see a whole lot wrong with those quotes, and if you'll notice, that last two games he's been very understated, taking what was givent to him and not much more.

Once again, I think Josh is going to be just fine for this team.

sike · 03-10-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I tend to agree with thig--sounds to me like Josh is referring to everybody as needing to sacrifice, including himself.

but usually when people use that word...they are admitting a negative outlook. Nobody wants to sacrifice...it sounds more like it something he'll have to do bc Kidd is here instead of "Holy, HECK....Jason Kidd is going to make me better on the offensive end!"....