All 2000's Decade Team

[jay3189]

What 12 players will you have as your 2000's all decade team?

Requirements
Decade starting from the 2000-2001 to 2009-2010 season
Player had to play at least 6 years out of the decade
Player had to make at least 5 All Star Teams out of the decade
Player had to make at least 1 All NBA Team or All Defensive Team

Here is my list

STARTERS
Jason Kidd
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal

BENCH
Steve Nash
Allen Iverson
Dwyane Wade
Paul Pierce
Tracy McGrady
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Garnett

[spreedom]

Starters:
Kidd
Kobe
LBJ
Dirk
Duncan

Bench:
Shaq
KG
Iverson
Nash
Melo
Bosh
T-Mac

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Starters:
Kidd
Kobe
LBJ
Dirk
Duncan

Bench:
Shaq
KG
Iverson
Nash
Melo
Bosh
T-Mac

How is Shaq not your starter, best center from 2000 to 2007. And how are you leaving Wade and Pierce off your list. Lol

[spreedom]

Sorry, I should have copied and pasted your roster. My bad dawg!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by jay3189

How is Shaq not your starter, best center from 2000 to 2007. And how are you leaving Wade and Pierce off your list. Lol

Because his list isn't your list?


EDIT: Spree pretty much said the same thing while I was typing this...

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by jay3189

Requirements
Decade starting from the 2000-2001 to 2009-2010 season
Player had to play at least 6 years out of the decade
Player had to make at least 5 All Star Teams out of the decade
Player had to make at least 1 All NBA Team or All Defensive Team

I did a quick run through wikipedia... you have 19 players to fill 12 spots.

Here's your massive list of candidates:
Shaquille O'Neal C
Jason Kidd G
Kevin Garnett F/C
Tim Duncan F/C
Kobe Bryant G
Ray Allen G
Vince Carter G/F
Allen Iverson G
Tracy McGrady G/F
Steve Nash G
Paul Pierce G/F
Jermaine O'Neal F/C
Dirk Nowitzki F/C
Yao Ming C
Amar'e Stoudemire F/C
LeBron James F
Dwyane Wade G
Chauncey Billups G
Chris Bosh F/C

Assume Mr. Never-out-of-the-first-round is not eligible. Now, you're looking to strike 6 names from the remaining in this exercise.

Are these requirements even valid if they bar Tony Parker and Carmelo from the conversation?





I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Are these requirements even valid if they bar Tony Parker and Carmelo from the conversation?

That's a good point. You could definitely make a case for Parker or Carmelo over some of the guys on Jay's list. That being said though, I think his list is spot on. Mine is identical to his. Thinking about this brings me couple of random thoughts-

1- Shaq at his peak eats Duncan for breakfast. Seriously, I don't think they're even close. I think only argument for Duncan being a better player is that he has greater longevity, and better work ethic.

2- Damn, I really, really, really miss Iverson. He was one of the players that reignited my passion for the NBA after I stopped caring in the mid-late 90's. I know how polarizing he is, and I know all the clichés people throw out to knock him- selfish, ballhog, thug, volume shooter, never won a championship etc... I won't deny that some of that reputation is fair, but I always thought it was WAY overblown. And it doesn't change the fact that he was just flat-out incredible. Hate him all you want, but he deserved every career accolade he got and every bit of his status as an icon.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

2- Damn, I really, really, really miss Iverson. He was one of the players that reignited my passion for the NBA after I stopped caring in the mid-late 90's. I know how polarizing he is, and I know all the clichés people throw out to knock him- selfish, ballhog, thug, volume shooter, never won a championship etc... I won't deny that some of that reputation is fair, but I always thought it was WAY overblown. And it doesn't change the fact that he was just flat-out incredible. Hate him all you want, but he deserved every career accolade he got and every bit of his status as an icon.

I remember trying to figure out how to do his crossover with my brother. Felt bad for him that one year he made it to the Finals but lost to LA.

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Sorry, I should have copied and pasted your roster. My bad dawg!

It was a joke. I know it's your list. I was just curious.

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

That's a good point. You could definitely make a case for Parker or Carmelo over some of the guys on Jay's list. That being said though, I think his list is spot on. Mine is identical to his. Thinking about this brings me couple of random thoughts-

1- Shaq at his peak eats Duncan for breakfast. Seriously, I don't think they're even close. I think only argument for Duncan being a better player is that he has greater longevity, and better work ethic.

2- Damn, I really, really, really miss Iverson. He was one of the players that reignited my passion for the NBA after I stopped caring in the mid-late 90's. I know how polarizing he is, and I know all the clichés people throw out to knock him- selfish, ballhog, thug, volume shooter, never won a championship etc... I won't deny that some of that reputation is fair, but I always thought it was WAY overblown. And it doesn't change the fact that he was just flat-out incredible. Hate him all you want, but he deserved every career accolade he got and every bit of his status as an icon.

Tony Parker and Carmelo Anthony played damn good in the 2000's era. But I will love to know who you would take off my list to put Parker and Melo on it, all the 12 players I listed had overall better careers and more All Star appearances than those 2. And based on my requirements, Melo would not be eligible, since he only made 3 All Stars in 2006-2007,2007-2008, and 2009-2010 seasons.

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

I did a quick run through wikipedia... you have 19 players to fill 12 spots.

Here's your massive list of candidates:
Shaquille O'Neal C
Jason Kidd G
Kevin Garnett F/C
Tim Duncan F/C
Kobe Bryant G
Ray Allen G
Vince Carter G/F
Allen Iverson G
Tracy McGrady G/F
Steve Nash G
Paul Pierce G/F
Jermaine O'Neal F/C
Dirk Nowitzki F/C
Yao Ming C
Amar'e Stoudemire F/C
LeBron James F
Dwyane Wade G
Chauncey Billups G
Chris Bosh F/C

Assume Mr. Never-out-of-the-first-round is not eligible. Now, you're looking to strike 6 names from the remaining in this exercise.

Are these requirements even valid if they bar Tony Parker and Carmelo from the conversation?





I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Those 19 players you listed all had good or great runs in the 2000's era, but some of those players are not eligible based on my requirements, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

That's a good point. You could definitely make a case for Parker or Carmelo over some of the guys on Jay's list. That being said though, I think his list is spot on. Mine is identical to his. Thinking about this brings me couple of random thoughts-

1- Shaq at his peak eats Duncan for breakfast. Seriously, I don't think they're even close. I think only argument for Duncan being a better player is that he has greater longevity, and better work ethic.

2- Damn, I really, really, really miss Iverson. He was one of the players that reignited my passion for the NBA after I stopped caring in the mid-late 90's. I know how polarizing he is, and I know all the clichés people throw out to knock him- selfish, ballhog, thug, volume shooter, never won a championship etc... I won't deny that some of that reputation is fair, but I always thought it was WAY overblown. And it doesn't change the fact that he was just flat-out incredible. Hate him all you want, but he deserved every career accolade he got and every bit of his status as an icon.

I would not say "Shaq in his prime would eat Duncan for breakfast", are you forgetting Tim Duncan was killing the NBA with 2 MVPs while Shaq was in his prime. Tim Duncan became a monster in the NBA in 1999, since then, the rest is history, 2 league MVPs, 6 Western Conference Titles, 5 NBA Championships, 3 finals MVPs, need I say more? LMAO

[bunkmoreland]

I mostly agree with Jay's original list. My only change is that I'd put either Parker (if elligible) or Ray Allen on my bench instead of Iverson.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by jay3189

I would not say "Shaq in his prime would eat Duncan for breakfast", are you forgetting Tim Duncan was killing the NBA with 2 MVPs while Shaq was in his prime. Tim Duncan became a monster in the NBA in 1999, since then, the rest is history, 2 league MVPs, 6 Western Conference Titles, 5 NBA Championships, 3 finals MVPs, need I say more? LMAO

And during that time, Shaq was better. You list all those titles and Conference championships- like I said, Duncan had much greater longevity- and better work ethic.

But yes, Shaq on his best day eats Duncan for breakfast. I should clarify that I don't mean this in any way as a knock on Duncan. That's just how g*ddamn amazing Shaq was for those few years. At his absolute peak, I think Shaq was one of the top 3 greatest players ever. I'll take Shaq in his prime over anybody except MJ and Kareem. Wilt, Magic, Larry, you name it. He just completely controlled the game and made his opponents sh*t themselves with fear. Duncan is an absolutely phenomenal player. Greatest PF ever. Definitely top 15 all time and arguably even top 10. But he never just completely owned the game or terrified his opponents the way Shaq did from '99-02.

When the Spurs dethroned the Lakers in 2003, Shaq had already started to decline, I think. He was always fighting nagging foot injuries and was never fully healthy. That goes back to work ethic because he had a terrible habit of routinely showing up to training camp overweight. During the offseason he was always off making awful movies or worse rap albums instead of training and conditioning. Plus those last two years in LA, the Lakers locker room atmosphere was just a complete circus and they never had their heads in the game- which once again goes back to work ethic.

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

And during that time, Shaq was better. You list all those titles and Conference championships- like I said, Duncan had much greater longevity- and better work ethic.

But yes, Shaq on his best day eats Duncan for breakfast. I should clarify that I don't mean this in any way as a knock on Duncan. That's just how g*ddamn amazing Shaq was for those few years. At his absolute peak, I think Shaq was one of the top 3 greatest players ever. I'll take Shaq in his prime over anybody except MJ and Kareem. Wilt, Magic, Larry, you name it. He just completely controlled the game and made his opponents sh*t themselves with fear. Duncan is an absolutely phenomenal player. Greatest PF ever. Definitely top 15 all time and arguably even top 10. But he never just completely owned the game or terrified his opponents the way Shaq did from '99-02.

When the Spurs dethroned the Lakers in 2003, Shaq had already started to decline, I think. He was always fighting nagging foot injuries and was never fully healthy. That goes back to work ethic because he had a terrible habit of routinely showing up to training camp overweight. During the offseason he was always off making awful movies or worse rap albums instead of training and conditioning. Plus those last two years in LA, the Lakers locker room atmosphere was just a complete circus and they never had their heads in the game- which once again goes back to work ethic.

Shaq was a beast. I think the league created the offensive 3 seconds in the paint rule because of Shaq killing people down low. I would not say Shaq declined in 2003. From 2004 to 2007 with the Heat, he was still the best center in the league. Miami would not win the championship in 2006 without him. I still want to know how the hell Shaq's debut album 'Shaq Diesel" went gold status in 2 months. WHO THE HELL WAS BUYING THAT ALBUM? The whole NBA? LMAO

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by jay3189

Shaq was a beast, they created the offensive 3 seconds in the paint rule because of shaq killing people down low. I would not say Shaq declined in 2003. From 2004 to 2007 with the Heat, he was still the best center in the league. Miami would not win the championship in 2006 without him.

He was not as good in 2003 as he was in 2002, because he wasn't healthy. He was always nursing the same foot injury. Even though he put up roughly the same numbers, I noticed that year that he was a just a little bit slower and less explosive than the year before (because he was little bit fatter.) After that year there was a pretty steep dropoff- again, because he was always carrying a little extra weight. And yes, he was still the best center in the league for several years after that, but he was not the unstoppable terrifying juggernaut that was putting up 30 and 14 very night.

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

He was not as good in 2003 as he was in 2002, because he wasn't healthy. He was always nursing the same foot injury. Even though he put up roughly the same numbers, I noticed that year that he was a just a little bit slower and less explosive than the year before (because he was little bit fatter.) After that year there was a pretty steep dropoff- again, because he was always carrying a little extra weight. And yes, he was still the best center in the league for several years after that, but he was not the unstoppable terrifying juggernaut that was putting up 30 and 14 very night.

The injuries were catching up to him. But guarding Shaq one on one from 2003-2007 was still a defensive job u wanted to avoid.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by jay3189

The injuries were catching up to him. But guarding Shaq one on one from 2003-2007 was still a defensive job u wanted to avoid.

No argument here. He was definitely still the best center in the league all the up until 06-07 when Dwight really broke out.

Although the sad thing is that probably says more about the terrible lack of talent at the center position in the modern era than it does about Shaq or Dwight.

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

No argument here. He was definitely still the best center in the league all the up until 06-07 when Dwight really broke out.

Although the sad thing is that probably says more about the terrible lack of talent at the center position in the modern era than it does about Shaq or Dwight.

That is true, from 2006-2010, Shaq and Dwight were the only real quality centers in the league that were putting up great numbers

[Underdog]

Is this basically a top-12 list, or do lineups actually count for something? Because I'd definitely pair up Dirk & Shaq in the starting lineup over Dirk/Duncan or Shaq/Duncan, just because of the insane mismatches that would create on offense, then bring Duncan/Garnett off the bench to turn the screws on the defensive end.

Also, does a player's entire body of work count, or are you just focusing on their prime? Because that makes a huge difference when you're talking about injury-prone guys like Yao and T-Mac.

[jay3189]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Is this basically a top-12 list, or do lineups actually count for something? Because I'd definitely pair up Dirk & Shaq in the starting lineup over Dirk/Duncan or Shaq/Duncan, just because of the insane mismatches that would create on offense, then bring Duncan/Garnett off the bench to turn the screws on the defensive end.

Also, does a player's entire body of work count, or are you just focusing on their prime? Because that makes a huge difference when you're talking about injury-prone guys like Yao and T-Mac.

You can do either or, any 12 players you like that fits the requirements from the 2000-2001 to 2009-2010 seasons. For example, McGrady at his best from 2000 to 2007 trumps Melo from 2003 to 2010. McGrady made more All Stars, All NBA Teams, and led the league in scoring 2x

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Are these requirements even valid if they bar Tony Parker and Carmelo from the conversation?

Yeah, if I'm putting together an All-2000's team that can stay healthy enough to get through an 82-game slog and still be versatile enough to dominate in the playoffs, I'd probably roll with the following 10-man lineup:

Kidd/Parker
Kobe/Wade
LeBron/Pierce
Dirk/Garnett
Shaq/Duncan

I'm not talking about the 10 best, nor does position on the depth chart determine who's better - this is mostly about fit... Everything from spacing to defense counts (that's why guys like Amare and Nash aren't listed), as well as health and durability (hence, no Yao or McGrady). Playoff experience/success also factor into the mix, which is why Pierce edges out Carter... And, finally, some guys just don't make the cut because they have what I view as fatal flaws in their game compared to the players I listed (AI being undersized, Bosh being good, but not great, at everything).

Just my preference, but I think this combination beats any other 2000's 10-man squad that you can put on the floor... Especially if you have Pop as their head coach.


EDIT: I am tempted to replace Wade with Allen, just because the 3-point shooting in that second unit is lacking, but I can't - too much of a gulf in overall talent, especially with Allen's game dropping off in 07-08.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Kidd/Parker
Kobe/Wade
LeBron/Pierce
Dirk/Garnett
Shaq/Duncan

And, no, the fact that all of these guys won championships with the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Mavs and/or Heat is not lost on me... Even though some of them didn't win their rings until this decade, those 5 teams were consistently some of the best during the 2000's.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

EDIT: I am tempted to replace Wade with Allen, just because the 3-point shooting in that second unit is lacking, but I can't - too much of a gulf in overall talent, especially with Allen's game dropping off in 07-08.

You misspelled "unearned free throws."

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'd definitely pair up Dirk & Shaq in the starting lineup over Dirk/Duncan or Shaq/Duncan, just because of the insane mismatches that would create on offense

In 2004, the Lakers knew not to create such an unstoppable beast.