Dampier, Dallas, and the Bobcats?

[Chef Ed]

Lane Whitaker just told Fish on his show in Dallas that there is rumblings of a 3 team deal in the works with Dampier, Dallas and the Bobcats. Nothing set in stone, just a little rumur he uncovered.

This should start a whole new rash of suggestions.

As long as Dallas lowers it's roster numbers than anything is a positive....

[DubOverdose]

I guess the Bobcats or the Mavs would be sending a TE to GS and the Bobcats would pick up some of the Mavs extra players and the Mavs would get Damp.

[Finley4ever]

A trade like this works:
Dallas gets: Dampier
GS gets: a 1st from Dallas
Charlotte gets: Henderson and a 2nd from Dallas

Everyone gets what they wasnt, except Dallas doesn't lower its number of players.

[Chef Ed]

Finley question?

If the Maverick's couldn't lower the number of bodies on the roster then why wouldn't they just do a trade straight up for Dampier? Why would they involve the Bobcats in the first place?

I don't know enough about the CBA to get into trade scenarios and I never have. It makes me look more stupid than most of you think I already am, but with that said, it seems to me that a three way deal can only mean that the Mav's are doing something not only to get Dampier, but to reduce the roster as well.

Am I on the right track here, or am I missing something.

[V]

Originally posted by: Chef Ed
Finley question?

If the Maverick's couldn't lower the number of bodies on the roster then why wouldn't they just do a trade straight up for Dampier? Why would they involve the Bobcats in the first place?

I don't know enough about the CBA to get into trade scenarios and I never have. It makes me look more stupid than most of you think I already am, but with that said, it seems to me that a three way deal can only mean that the Mav's are doing something not only to get Dampier, but to reduce the roster as well.

Am I on the right track here, or am I missing something.

Briefly - Mavs give a player to Bob & get a trade exception in the amount of the salary given away (Bob can only take a player without giving a player back if they are under the cap... which they are.)

Next Mavs send the exception to GSW for Dampier. Dallas can assume salary equivalent to the TE. GSW gets nothing but they don't assume any payroll. To make the deal work the Mavs would have to throw in a pick ... and they may use an expiring contract and or $3.1 million TE they already have to lower GS's payroll further. In other words something like this might work:

Dallas send Stack to Bob for TE
Dallas sends TE (Stack) & pick for Dampier AND TE + pick for Esch

I don't like the Esch enticer .... but a stright "TE + pick" for Damp could get real ugly. Dependong on how much you value Dampier it could be worth it.

[chumdawg]

Was Stack exposed in the expansion draft? I agree that he would seem a good fit for the Bobcats.

[Nash13]

This would be an ideal trade if we were going to get Dampier. Charlotte now realizes that they can't get squat from the FA market so are about to trade up for some people, probably players with expiring contracts.

I could see us giving up Wahad, Laettner, and/or Stackhouse, and would get Dampier. GS would probably get a TE from Charlotte.

BTW, shouldn't this be in the Trade forum?

[Chef Ed]

Not sure if it should be or not. I haven't been here long enough to know what goes where. It wasn't ment to be a trade post, just kinda letting you know what I was hearing on the show today. Lane was on talking about the Olympics and the fact he thought the roster was designed to sell jerseys rather than win the gold, and then out of the blue he threw that out for the taking. Just thought you would be interested.

[dirk2003]

I have seen a few games that Dampier has played in for GS so I dont know too much about him. He would be the easiest solution for the mavs to get.

To me Dampier looks like a great rebounder with very little offense. His offensive game is similar to that of Ratliff's where he mainly dunks the ball and nothing else. This isn't bad though as it will give more shots to Dirk. How is Dampiers defense? Is he any kind of a shot blocking machine? If he cant bring physical defense then we should strongly persue THEO RATLIFF! We could have gotten Ratliff last year from ATL so easily... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[V]

The Bob depth chart looks pretty depressing:

PG Jason Hart
SG Gerald Wallace
SF Jason Kapono
PF Melvin Ely
C Okafor

One could argue that's a nice THIRD rotation for a playoff team. Not exactly anything to get excited about. They desperately need someone reasonably priced who can put the ball in the bucket.

Would hometown scorer Jerry Stackhouse help to sell some tickets? ... He's easier to get than Vince Carter... and we know Stack can put up monster numbers on a bad team. Sounds like a fit to me.

[grndmstr_c]

A more detailed version of the trade F4e suggested goes like this:
Dallas: gets Dampier (from GS)
GS gets: a first rounder from Dallas and a TE from Charlotte
Charlotte gets: Henderson, and probably some cash, both from Dallas. The second rounder might or might not be necessary to secure their cooperation.

If nobody stepped up to the plate with anything better for Dampier and the alternative was to lose him outright to Atlanta, you have to figure GS would have no problem accepting a future first and a sizeable (roughly 8 million dollar) TE; the TE is the reason why you include Charlotte, btw. Henderson will probably spend all next year on the IL, so insurance will pick up 80% of his salary. All Mark would have to do would be to throw in enough cash (and maybe the second rounder) to make it worth their while. If Dallas is interested in Damp and he's willing to sign a reasonable contract, it would be a win, win, win for all teams involved.

EDIT: forgot Charlotte has a reduced cap.

[Finley4ever]

If the Maverick's couldn't lower the number of bodies on the roster then why wouldn't they just do a trade straight up for Dampier? Why would they involve the Bobcats in the first place?

I don't know enough about the CBA to get into trade scenarios and I never have. It makes me look more stupid than most of you think I already am, but with that said, it seems to me that a three way deal can only mean that the Mav's are doing something not only to get Dampier, but to reduce the roster as well.

Am I on the right track here, or am I missing something.

Golden State doesn't want to add salary because it could put them in the luxury tax, so they could simply let Dampier walk and save money. If we traded straight up with them, they would add more salary, which they wouldn't want. So Dallas gets Charlotte to take the salary and tips them with a draft pick and Golden State gets a 1st, which is more than they would get if they let him sign with Atlanta.

[fin4life]

This all makes perfect sense. I think that charlotte would love to have stack so they could at least put points on the board(and he is reasonably affordable) and GS doesnt take back any salary while getting a 1st rounder for their time.

ALSO... it would make no sense to trade henderson to the bobcats because they dont need expiring contracts, they need players. I think that the deal would HAVE to be for stackhouse because to me that is the only player (with a contract similer to the one the DAMP wil get) that makes sense for them.

[uberfan]

But Bobs cannot trade a TE to Mavs. There has to be something coming back to Mavs (a second rounder, for example) and then they would get a TE.

Next, GS could S&T Dampier and trade him to Mavs for the Philly firs, as long as the Dampier salary was equal to the TE Mavs get in dealing with Bobcats. The TE is used up by Mavs. GS creates a new TE by trading Dampier to Mavs.

[fin4life]

Originally posted by: uberfan
But Bobs cannot trade a TE to Mavs. There has to be something coming back to Mavs (a second rounder, for example) and then they would get a TE.

Next, GS could S&T Dampier and trade him to Mavs for the Philly firs, as long as the Dampier salary was equal to the TE Mavs get in dealing with Bobcats. The TE is used up by Mavs. GS creates a new TE by trading Dampier to Mavs.

Ok, thats fine. I think that charlotte would throw in a second rounder to make this deal work

Charlotte recieves: Stackhouse
Dallas Recieves: Dampier (with a contract starting a 7mil/year)
GS recieves: TE, Dallas' 1st round pick (from Philly), Second round pick (from Charlotte)

I think that it helps every teams involved so i would say that this deal is likely. The mavs lineup would be...

Terry/Harris/AJ/Steff
Quis/Howard
Fin/Najera/TAW
Dirk/L8/Henderson
Damp/Brad/Booth/Benga/PPod

That is all of our 17 players... with damp in place i think that booth becomes expendable and L8/Henderson can be traded for their expiring contracts (hopefully)

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: uberfan
But Bobs cannot trade a TE to Mavs. There has to be something coming back to Mavs (a second rounder, for example) and then they would get a TE.

Next, GS could S&T Dampier and trade him to Mavs for the Philly firs, as long as the Dampier salary was equal to the TE Mavs get in dealing with Bobcats. The TE is used up by Mavs. GS creates a new TE by trading Dampier to Mavs.

One thing to look into (and I haven't) is which second rounders the Bobcats gave up in the LAC deal. They may not have a second-rounder to give up for a while (not that the Mavs would care if it was a 2010 pick).

This deal makes a lot of sense for all involved. Charlotte gets a scorer to help carry the load for the first couple of years. Golden State gets a first rounder for nothing. Dallas gets Dampier and clears up the logjam at 2/3 in the same move.

Also, you could look at it as Dallas getting Terry, Dampier, and Henderson for Walker, Delk and Stackhouse. That's a very nice trade.

[fin4life]

The following trades are all trade that are made for the purpose of trimming the roster. The mavs might lose talent... but they have no choice because they need to get their roster down. NOTE: THESE TRADES ASSUME THAT WE TRADE DAMPIER FOR STACKHOUSE SO WE COULD AFFORD TO LOSE A CENTER/PF.

1st trade:
Dallas trades: PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
C Calvin Booth (4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17.0 minutes)
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Keith Van Horn (16.1 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 32.5 minutes)
SF Desmond Mason (14.4 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 1.9 apg in 30.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +7.1 ppg, -6.3 rpg, and -0.5 apg.

Milwaukee trades: SF Keith Van Horn (16.1 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.7 apg in 32.5 minutes)
SF Desmond Mason (14.4 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 1.9 apg in 30.9 minutes)
Milwaukee receives: PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 48 games)
C Calvin Booth (4.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 71 games)
SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -7.1 ppg, +6.3 rpg, and +0.5 apg


2nd Trade:
Dallas trades: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +2.9 ppg, -5.0 rpg, and +3.2 apg.

Toronto trades: SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
Toronto receives: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games)
PF Tariq Abdul-Wahad (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.9 ppg, +5.0 rpg, and -3.2 apg.

3rd Trade:
Dallas trades: Jon Stefansson ( ppg, rpg, apg in minutes)
PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.3 minutes)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Anfernee Hardaway (9.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg in 27.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -0.7 ppg, -4.5 rpg, and +0.1 apg.

New York trades: SG Anfernee Hardaway (9.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg in 27.6 minutes)
New York receives: Jon Stefansson ( ppg, rpg, apg in games)
PF Alan Henderson (4.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6 games)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 48 games)
Change in team outlook: +0.7 ppg, +4.5 rpg, and -0.1 apg.


All trades involve our expiring contracts as a reason for the other team to accept the trade. Also, all the teams have less than 12 players.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I listen to the sports radio every now and then, but refresh my memory....who are Lane Whitaker or The Fish? (yeah I'm having a long brain fart today)

[V]

Originally posted by: DevinHarriswillstart
I listen to the sports radio every now and then, but refresh my memory....who are Lane Whitaker or The Fish? (yeah I'm having a long brain fart today)

Lang Whitaker is from SLAM magazine.

Fish is the db.com guy. He also has a radio show from noon - 3:00 on 990 am

[Poindexter Einstein]

Dampier may come to Dallas, but those trades all violate cap and trade rules. Find another way.

MILW to trade Mason for "misc"? Wont happen.
DAL to trade Howard for "misc"? Wont happen.
DAL to trade "all exp deals" for long-term junk? Wont happen.

[DubOverdose]

Couldn't the Mavs trade a 2nd rounder and part of their ATL TE for a player the Bobcats don't want afterall, thus freeing up cap space allowing the Bobcats to absorb Stack's contract and stay under the cap, then allowing this deal to work?

[fin4life]

Originally posted by: DubOverdose
Couldn't the Mavs trade a 2nd rounder and part of their ATL TE for a player the Bobcats don't want afterall, thus freeing up cap space allowing the Bobcats to absorb Stack's contract and stay under the cap, then allowing this deal to work?

the way that i suggested that has the bobcats getting rid of one of their bad players and giving them to GS is better because the mavs dont have to add a player. Roster spots are very hard to clear on the mavs... we dont need to waste one on a spare 2nd rounder thatwill never see the court. All charlotte has to do is decide which player os most worthless, and chose the worst one to give to GS. His meager salary wont be enough to push the warriors into the luxury tax.

The only differences between my suggestion and yours are:
1. The mavs dont have to take a player
2. Bobcats dont get dallas' second rounder (which wouldnt make sense because they would have to send a second rounder to make the deal work with GS because they can trade for only a TE)

[EricaLubarsky]

What about Laettner and Stef to Charlotte. I can't tell if I need a moon by that.

[fin4life]

Well we wouldnt send L8 and steff Because they dont need L8 and steff... they need stackhouse.

[Stressboy]

Stackhouse makes the most sense and I don't see why the Bobcats would not have to give a 1st round pick(they have a future Toronto and Cleveland) to get him. They are getting a really good player who is a NC kid. If we throw in 3mil, they just cut Jahiadi White (they got 3mil from Pheonix and 3 mil from us would make them a profit.) That would still leave them about 4 mil under their 30mil cap. GS would get two heavily cap protected picks for Dampier, but no salary.

Makes sense, but since that would only involve 1 player from Dallas, then it could happen at any time, and since it has not, we can only hope that it is taking a while to work out the details or We are moving multiple players. If for instance we were to take on Esch and give up Stackhouse to get Dampier, then GS would have to take on Laettner for instance and if we take on Esch, then GS would only get 1 1st rounder.

Stackhouse/Laettner/pilly 1st/3mil for Dampier/Esch/cleveland first
Bobcats get Stackhouse/3mil for clevelands 1st
GS gets Lattener/philly 1st and save about 10mil over next 3 years.

Stressboy

[DevinHarriswillstart]

We've heard 1000 rumors about thim though. That article doesn't really give anymore insight on anything new pertaining to Damp. I finally think that Mavs have a 5% chance at him. Better then 0.

[Dirkenstien]

The more the Dallas Mavericks are not mentioned in any rumors pertaining to acquiring Erick Dampier the higher the probability is of us actually acquiring him from my perspective.

[Poindexter Einstein]

As I said earlier about those 3 trades......

MILW to trade Mason for "misc"? Wont happen.
DAL to trade Howard for "misc"? Wont happen.
DAL to trade "all exp deals" for long-term junk? Wont happen

[endtroducing]

other than Dampier, the only player I would like Dallas to put up a serious offer for is Rashard Lewis...and if it comes down to choosing one or the other, I'd take Lewis.

[lonny22]

I'll post the same trade here that I posted on dallasbasketball.com. I had to change my login here and I'll post here, also.

The Bobcats don't have much cap room left, so we get Drobnjak with our trade exception and a draft pick.

The Mavs trade Stackhouse to Charlotte so he goes back to NC. It's not Jamison like it was thought of before. We traded for the #5 pick instead of getting the #4 from Charlotte in the draft. With the Bobcat draft pick for Stackhouse we get a $7 Million trade exception.

I think the Mavs get Dale Davis from GS. We trade Henderson, who makes a little less money, but GS saves even more money if they leave him on IR all year and let insurance pick up 80% of his salary. Both guys have expiring contracts. Foyle is already there making big money.

I don't know if we would have to take Eschmeyer, but it would probably entail us trading Najera somewhere. We could also trade Laettner and not use up a large portion of the exception. I hope it doesn't come to this.

We give up a pick and the trade exception for Dampier. He starts at $7 Million with 12.5% raises. I'm guessing this is a long-term deal.

Since we've now added 1 player, we must make more trades. I see Bradley going to Utah for a draft pick.

Any future moves are a little fuzzy. It might come down to not signing Avery, buying out TAW, or not renewing Steffanson. I would believe that future moves would be in order because there are too many people at the 4/5 positions and less at 1-3. TAW, Laettner, and Drobjnak are the other guys at risk to be traded. The Mavs would be looking to trade for a backup PF or to get a real SF. That's where I'm putting my money. Trading guys for picks is the last resort.

Without the trades we have the following 17 players:

Dampier/Davis/Booth/DJ/Pavel
Dirk/Laettner/Najera/Drobnjak
Fin/Howard/TAW
Daniels/Steffanson
Terry/Harris/Avery

When Cuban bought the Mavs he said he wanted to be like Portland and the next 2 weeks and months should put us closer to being like Portland than we ever have been.

[DallasMavs412004]

What would you be interested in giving up to land Rashard Lewis?

[lonny22]

It would have to be Stackhouse going to Seattle for Lewis if they didn't trade him to get Dampier. That's contingent on whether or not Ray Allen gets traded or signs for big money. Maybe we could get lucky and trade last-year Laettner and our other trade exception for Lewis if Seattle went on a fire sale to save money. I'm not betting on that to happen.

[lonny22]

Based upon my assumption that the Mavs get Dampier and Davis, here are candidates for reducing the roster, balancing the frontcourt and backcourt, and adding to the SF/PF depth.

Lamond Murray might be available, but he goes in a 1 for 1 swap.
Jalen Rose, Keith Van Horn, Shawn Marion (I doubt it), and Grant Hill are big salary dumps for SF's. I'm not counting on Peja being traded.
You can take your pick of Philly or Knicks guys.
Kidd isn't out of the question until October. I have my doubts that he's coming.
I'm not sure that Wally or Croshere get traded, but we can combine 2 salaries for them.
Taylor and Spoon in Houston might be alternatives.
Eddie Robinson is still in Chicago, as is Antonio Davis.

All of the PF's would serve only as backups. Some of the SF's could start, but probably wouldn't.

[mapape]

I would definitley go all out to get Rashard Lewis. He would fi in very well here with his shooting touch. Laettner might be the ticket for that.

[madape]

Isiah takes last shot at Dampier



BY MITCH LAWRENCE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Their chances are considered slim, if not none, but the Knicks could find out as soon as today if Erick Dampier is going to wind up as their starting center for next season.
Returning to work after moving into his Westchester home last week, team president Isiah Thomas is expected to talk to Dampier and his agent, Dan Fegan, in what could be a last-ditch effort to work the impossible.

For nearly two months, Thomas has been unable to work a sign-and-trade with Golden State, and nothing has changed on that front. The Warriors have no interest in Kurt Thomas or anyone else that Thomas has offered. So Isiah Thomas somehow will have to convince Dampier to take the mid-level exception, starting at around $5 million, rather than the four-year, $40 million standing offer that the Atlanta Hawks have on the table.

Several league sources said that Dampier, 30, who walked away from $17 million that he had coming to him from the Warriors over the next two years in order to gain his free agency this summer, is not about to pass up the Hawks' money.

Memphis has also tried to land Dampier, who attended the Grizzlies' two home playoff losses to San Antonio and comes from Monticello, Miss. But as much as team president Jerry West wants to get him and move Pau Gasol to power forward, the Grizzlies have been unable to strike a deal with the Warriors. One person with knowledge of the trade talks said last night that Memphis is out of the running, adding, "We all expect Dampier to go to Atlanta. They've got more money than anybody else."

Other than getting the 6-11 Dampier, whom many see as a good rebounder but a career underachiever, the Knicks have no other options to upgrade at center. They might have to go into the season again starting the 6-10 Nazr Mohammed, who is more suited to coming off the bench as a reserve power forward.

While Thomas keeps his fingers crossed on Dampier, the Knicks are almost certain to re-sign Vin Baker this week. The two sides have had an agreement for the last several weeks, with the backup forward expected to get a two-year deal worth slightly more than $3.2 million. Baker's agent, Aaron Goodwin, said yesterday that Baker and the Knicks should make it formal tomorrow or Wednesday, regardless of what happens with Dampier. Only Cleveland has shown interest in Baker during the offseason.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Hopefully they start Vin Baker at center LMAO.

[EricaLubarsky]

G-rob and Mashburn would be fine

if we were okay with another year of bad chemistry and selfish ball.

[sike]

Lewis is a Nellie wet dream......but most likely also a pipe dream.

[fin4life]

New news might make it more realistic for this deal to happen. Charlotte has traded peja drobniak to ATL for a second rounder and TE. That gives charlotte another 2.8 mil in cap room. They now have about 9.2mil dollars in room... If they mavs game them stack/najera (10.8mil) in exchange for the 9.2 TE and a 1st rounder, they could send the money (and some of our TE from Atl along with the ATL draft Pick) to GS for esch (3.1) and Damp(7). The trade would lok like this.

Dallas Trades: Stackhouse, Najera, ATL pick
Dallas Recieves: Damp, Esch, Charlotte Pick (much better than the ATL pick considering the ATL pick may never happen)

Charloote Trades: 9.2 TE, 1st rounder
Charlotte Recieves: Stack, Najera

GS Trade: Damp, Esh
GS gets: TE, ATL pick

- I know that most people are saying that ATL will probaly get Damp now... but this trade makes a lot of sense for all teams and allows GS to get under the cap (they are about 3mil over).

[endtroducing]

I'm guessing you'd use Eschmeyer as a backup PF?

if we get Dampier without getting rid of a big man, jeeze...Bradley, Booth, Dampier, Eschmeyer Benga, Pavel, Laettner...there's way too many big spares to go around.