Mavs being forced to wait on Miller - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mavsfanforever · 07-18-2003, 10:47 PM

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Mavs being forced to wait on Miller
Dallas among desired teams if sign-and-trade deal can be made

07/19/2003

By CHUCK CARLTON / The Dallas Morning News

The Mavericks still think they can find a way to get free-agent center Brad Miller this summer.

Even as Miller was planning weekend visits to Utah and Denver, his agent, Mark Bartlestein, said the Mavericks remain in the picture, via a sign-and-trade scenario with Indiana.

Utah and Denver each have significant room under the salary cap to sign Miller outright.

Until Miller decides where he's going, the Mavericks have no plans to spend their $4.9 million mid-level exception.

The Mavericks could use the $4.9 million to fill the center gap if Miller goes elsewhere. If Miller were to be acquired in a sign-and-trade, they could use the money to address other needs, or not spend it at all.

"We want to maintain flexibility," said Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks president of basketball operations. "We're in negotiations with a number of different candidates. We're hopeful that we're going to have more clarification.

"But we will not hesitate to refrain from spending it if the right player is not available."

Translation: the Mavericks probably won't be interested in long-term contracts for veterans who might only have one or two serviceable seasons remaining. Among the players who might fit that category: Scottie Pippen, Robert Horry and Elden Campbell.

The 27-year-old Miller averaged 13.1 points and 8.3 rebounds in Indiana, giving the Pacers a young, talented inside tandem with Jermaine O'Neal. Indiana signed O'Neal earlier this week to a seven-year, $126 million contract.

Miller was hopeful about a significant raise from the $5.3 million he made last season.

"We know Brad's probably not very happy with us," Larry Bird, the Pacers' president of basketball operations, told the Indianapolis Star . "He wanted to get this deal done right away. But we wanted to get Jermaine out of the way. Now we can concentrate on Brad."

E-mail ccarlton@dallasnews.com

jayC · 07-18-2003, 11:12 PM

That would almost salvage a horrid offseason. Id almost rather go with Al Harrington instead of Miller.

AdamAMMP · 07-18-2003, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: jayC
That would almost salvage a horrid offseason. Id almost rather go with Al Harrington instead of Miller.

agreed, Miller doesn't impress me.

ocelot_ark · 07-18-2003, 11:53 PM

Nor I.

Bayliss · 07-19-2003, 10:56 AM

Miller is a step above Raef and Bradley, thought. Brad Miller will never be a dominant player even though he made the All-Star team. But the 15th game of the season last year, he was a big reason why we lost to the Pacers. He brings something that Raef, and Bradley can never bring. And that is punishment, whether it be laying a guy on his back if he's driving the lane, muscling up on a post defender (albiet he isn't a great post defender). or throwing his body around to grab a rebound.

And at 27, he is relatively the same age as Raef and actually has more realized potential. Sign him if you can.

MavKikiNYC · 07-19-2003, 11:02 AM

Agree.

And if you can't sign him, trade for him.

I'd offer NVE and Mantis, in exchange for Milller and taking on Croshere's contract.

jayC · 07-19-2003, 11:06 AM

I agree. He is more physical after all who can forget the time that he almost got knocked out by Shaq while he was in chicago. I think that if you added croshere and perhaps bender to the deal then I would do the deal.

MavsFanFinley · 07-19-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

He brings something that Raef, and Bradley can never bring. And that is punishment, whether it be laying a guy on his back if he's driving the lane, muscling up on a post defender (albiet he isn't a great post defender). or throwing his body around to grab a rebound.

Bayliss sums it up perfectly. I've never seen Miller back down from anyone or shy away from physical play.

Not many big men available that we can get by trading NVE that are better than Miller.

dude1394 · 07-19-2003, 11:59 AM

I look at the mavs and still feel that what they really need is some attitude by our big guys. NVE/Finley can talk all they want but when was the last time THEY put anyone on their rear. It can't come from some wimpy guard, unless that guard really is willing to walk the walk.

I don't know that much about miller but if he's a big guy with an attitude and we can get him for NVE do it in a second. The impact of a big guy knocking raef/shawn/dirk on their rear is worth an extra player. I do this in a second. If he's actually a guy who won't back down then I consider finley as well in that trade.

I'm not saying trade finley, but this team does not have any sort of enforcer that can make an impact on our big guys, we have to have one.

FilthyFinMavs · 07-19-2003, 12:03 PM

If Jonathan Bender was added to the deal i'd do it. I think with Brad Chroshere its a good deal but I need something else if i'm going to take on Chroshere's contract. I don't think alot of you guys understand what we are getting into. We have to deal with his contract till 2007. We will never trade him because no team will never take him. We have alot of guys like that on this team as it is and i'm not sure if I want to add another one to this team. For Brad Miller and JBender i'd probaly do the deal but if we are soley taking Miller and Chroshere the trade is a NO for me. If we could send Bradley to the Knicks for KT this trade looks alot more intriguing. I don't know why the Mavs are even wasting there time with Bradley if they can get KT for him. At one point we were talking about trading Nick for him. Bradley? For KT? I'd do it before the fans of New York changes Layden's mind.

JoshHoward5 · 07-19-2003, 02:27 PM

I agree with some of the opinions up there. I would never want to get Croshere. His contract is horrible. I would much rather get J. Bender or A. Harrington.

uberfan · 07-19-2003, 02:31 PM

From Hoopsworld.com:

"Brad Miller: With the clock ticking away, Brad Miller has hinted through his agent that likely by next week they will make a decision, both Utah and Denver have put the full curt press on Brad, and while he admittedly believes Indiana to be the right spot, he questions why the Pacers haven’t made him a firm contract offer. The Nuggets and Jazz have offers on the table, in the $8 million a season range, and Miller who is in a holding pattern waits for a similar offer from Indiana. The Pacers are telling media that they are working on ways to move out some guaranteed contract money to avoid the luxury tax, before re-signing Miller. Two scenarios have surfaced, one of trading a package of players to Portland for the contract of Arvydas Sabonis, who is not guaranteed the entire $7 million owed, which would clear off some cash. The other is trading for Terrell Brandon’s $11 million deal, which is expected to come off after TB retires this season. The only problems here are the Blazers say they are not actively exploring situations that take on other teams issues, and the Wolves seem unwilling to move out their $11 million relief, unless it returns star players. Miller’s agent says they hope to have a deal in place for Brad by mid-week".

Drbio · 07-19-2003, 04:18 PM

Miller does not back down period.

But I'm not sure he is worth obtaining at this point unless we can get rid of Esch somehow.

Fah Q · 07-19-2003, 06:33 PM

Why in the world do we need another big tall white guy? Do the Mavs want another one to continue there legacy? I say we cut our losses and sign a couple of 1 year deals and look at trades that would help us for the future.

mavsfanforever · 07-19-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Fah Q
Why in the world do we need another big tall white guy? Do the Mavs want another one to continue there legacy? I say we cut our losses and sign a couple of 1 year deals and look at trades that would help us for the future.

Miller is the best big man available in FA right now and thats why we need him.

superheadcat · 07-19-2003, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Fah Q
Why in the world do we need another big tall white guy?

this is ur 5th post.

and it shows.

Fah Q · 07-19-2003, 07:50 PM

Sorry if my quote bothered you. I just don't think Brad Miller will make a difference in the west. He might be tougher than Raef but he is not the answer especially if we lock him up for 9 Mill a year for 3 or more years.

dude1394 · 07-19-2003, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Fah Q
Why in the world do we need another big tall white guy? Do the Mavs want another one to continue there legacy? I say we cut our losses and sign a couple of 1 year deals and look at trades that would help us for the future.

Why wouldn't we? What legacy is that?

seelenjaeger · 07-19-2003, 08:49 PM

If we get Miller (prolly in a sign-and-trade losing Nick and AJ and getting him and either Al H or Austin Croshere) I think this off-season has to be labeled a good one by adding guys at each of the positions where we lack quality (SF and C).

Fah Q · 07-19-2003, 09:38 PM

dude, I'm not trying to argue with you. Seleen if we get Harrington it is a good trade but if its Croshere we got hosed. I dont want Croshere at almost 10 Mill a year on the roster for another 4 years. Talk about salary cap hell.

seelenjaeger · 07-20-2003, 05:09 AM

Fah Q - we´re over the Cap anyways, and Austin signed a 7 yr (player opt after the 5th) contract worth 51 million on 8/1/00. Though I agree that this is a bit big, it´s nowhere close to 10 mill a year.

To make it happen we´d have to ship a package of Nick Van Exel (roughly 12-13 mill next year), AJ and Esch for B. Miller and Austin Croshere, and - if Indiana is really willing to let A. Harrington go for C. Ward - may get Al Harrington aswell if we either negotiate well (we take a big contract off their hand, give them their starting PG ...) or raise the offer a bit.

Mavs_Rule2003 · 07-20-2003, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
Fah Q - we´re over the Cap anyways, and Austin signed a 7 yr (player opt after the 5th) contract worth 51 million on 8/1/00. Though I agree that this is a bit big, it´s nowhere close to 10 mill a year.

To make it happen we´d have to ship a package of Nick Van Exel (roughly 12-13 mill next year), AJ and Esch for B. Miller and Austin Croshere, and - if Indiana is really willing to let A. Harrington go for C. Ward - may get Al Harrington aswell if we either negotiate well (we take a big contract off their hand, give them their starting PG ...) or raise the offer a bit.

Indiana WILL never do that i guess. Not A. Harrington. They love this guy. But if we can get Miller and Austin for NVE and AJ esch. That would make me think little further.

dude1394 · 07-20-2003, 08:32 AM

Quote:

But if we can get Miller and Austin for NVE and AJ esch. That would make me think little further.

WHAT exactly could you still want to think about. I'd do that before the words finished coming out of their agents mouth and they changed their minds.

Fah Q · 07-20-2003, 11:40 AM

Do yall not understand that the salary cap might not be a real big issue at this moment but as are payroll goes higher and the contracts get longer it digs us deeper and deeper until this team wont have any room to do anything. Plus I'm all for Cuban spending his $$$$ but dont you think after a couple of seasons of losing money he might back off anyway.

AnMan21 · 07-20-2003, 02:01 PM

Yeah, Miller would add a little physical play inside. However, the amount of money he's searching for is not worth it. He made the All-star game in a horrid Eastern Conference center position and now everyone thinks he can play. Everyone thought Raef could play in Denver and then got way overpaid - and hasn't produced. This jump the gun mentality is all over the league. Rasho getting his contract with SA is a prime example. What has that guy done?!? The point is, the Mavs already pay their stars too much, they shouldn't bring in another average overpaid center...they already have three of those!

dude1394 · 07-20-2003, 05:29 PM

Again, if nve can bring miller in then that's probalby a pay reduction in the amount of salary next year, nick right now is the 34th highest paid player.

But irregardless, the mavs (kings, trailblazers) don't have a lot of choice in the matter unless they are willing to blow it up. I can see cubes blowing it up in about 2 more seasons if they regress badly, but right now I don't think he can worry about it.

Just211 · 07-20-2003, 10:21 PM

how about we get Miller, Harrington, and take on Croshere for them.

If Dallas trades
NVE, AJ, Bradley, Esch and 1st round draft pick

then the $ works where dallas can take on
Croshere
while gettting
Harrington
and still be able to offer
Miller
up to 12.75, although hopefully it's only the 10 mil at most.

IMO, it works for both. Indy gets the PG they need, while replacing the center they lost. They lose Harrington, but get a 1st rounder for him. And they unload Croshere's contract, while picking up AJ (cap relief) so bascially they turn the 7.6 mil hit that Crosher is into a 2.8 hit with Esch

Dallas gets the C they want, the SF they want, but have to take on Croshere's hit, and sacrifice a 1st rounder (that isn't too important). So they basically lose a good PG, and reserve C, for a starting C and SF, and Croshere would be more help off the bench than Esch.

dude1394 · 07-20-2003, 10:24 PM

done... don't care about anything but the miller acquisition.

uberfan · 07-21-2003, 08:41 AM

If the story I posted in the NBA section is true, Utah offering 6years in the mid-$50 million range, then the Mavs won't have to wait much longer.

Also, in another article, Miller's agent has indicated an contract may be signed in the next two days.

madape · 07-21-2003, 09:21 AM

Austin Croshere would flourish under Nelson. A big, mobile 3/4 who can run the court and shoot lights out. He's been misused and banished to the bench by the most incompetent coach in the NBA. In Dallas, he'd break out of his injustly imposed jail cell and become one of the best bench players in the Wester conference - a bigger, more skilled Eduardo Najera. His contract is big, but you don't get the Miller deal done without taking it on. And beleive it or not, when all is said and done he may be the best player involved in the trade. I'd like Harrington, but even if it's just Miller and Croshere, I do this deal.

uberfan · 07-21-2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: madape
Austin Croshere would flourish under Nelson. A big, mobile 3/4 who can run the court and shoot lights out. He's been misused and banished to the bench by the most incompetent coach in the NBA. In Dallas, he'd break out of his injustly imposed jail cell and become one of the best bench players in the Wester conference - a bigger, more skilled Eduardo Najera. His contract is big, but you don't get the Miller deal done without taking it on. And beleive it or not, when all is said and done he may be the best player involved in the trade. I'd like Harrington, but even if it's just Miller and Croshere, I do this deal.

I have said it before, and will do so again. Under Nellie's system A.C. can be part of the C/PF rotation.

MavKikiNYC · 07-21-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: madape
Austin Croshere would flourish under Nelson. A big, mobile 3/4 who can run the court and shoot lights out. He's been misused and banished to the bench by the most incompetent coach in the NBA. In Dallas, he'd break out of his injustly imposed jail cell and become one of the best bench players in the Wester conference - a bigger, more skilled Eduardo Najera. His contract is big, but you don't get the Miller deal done without taking it on. And beleive it or not, when all is said and done he may be the best player involved in the trade. I'd like Harrington, but even if it's just Miller and Croshere, I do this deal.

I have to express some degree of concern about the extent to which Ape's and my perspectives have coalesced.

I would do a Miller/Croshere trade. I'm not sure that Croshere would ever make an All-Star team in Dallas, but he did show some good mobility a couple of years ago, and he had a long-shot going there for a while. And the best part would be that in Nellie's system he wouldn't even be expected to play a lick of defense.

I also agree that for whatever reason, Thomas has shown no inclination at all to put Croshere to his best use, or find a way to work him into the rotation. Croshere has looked absolutely awful the last several times I've seen him, as if he knows he doesn't have a chance of earning minutes as long as Thomas is around.

In any case, I think that Croshere would stand a better chance of rebounding, both literally and metaphorically, in Nelson's system than in Thomas's. He should be capable of better production than what has been shown the last couple of years. I think that once he got into a Mavericks uniform and started producing in the Mavericks' system, taking him as part of the Miller acquisition wouldn't look nearly as bad.

madape · 07-21-2003, 09:21 AM

double post