This postion MUST be filled by Mavs in off-season

[uberfan]

The primary position that the Mavs MUST FILL is a SF--and they better not rely on Howard as the solution. Nothing against Josh Howrad, but rookies just cannot be counted on the entrie season and through the playoffs. That is expecting too much.

We need a 25-30 minute a game veteran, so that rules out Pippen and probably Horry. We need someone who can defend, get a few rebounds and provide a little offense. We need someone who has played at the 3 before, but does not necessarily have had to be a previous starter. Let Howard get the other minutes and learn the NBA at a normal pace for a rookie that you expect to be part of your future.

The reason I think this position is more critical than the 5 is to keep Nellie from moving Fin to the 3 and playing the 2 PG set so much. Yeah, it is fun at times to watch them put up points in the regular season but it is ridiculous to expect to play one style in the regular season and then when the playoffs come decide to change up the rotation or style.

With the right mix a SF, we could live another year (or until Feb.) before pulling off a major trade with a rotation of Dirk/Najera at PF and Raef/Bradley at the center.

Both of the two realisitc available candidates that I can think of that come close to meeting our needs at the postion are Restricted.

James Posey is rumored to be targeted by Chicago with a 6 year offer if Pippen turns them down.

Jumain Jones-- I haven't heard anything definitive rumored about who would be targeting him. Cleveland apparfently wants him back, but how much they would be willing to go, I don't know.

Lamar Odom--would be nice but Miami, Denver, and Clipps are all rumored to be trying to tie him down. Just stay out of that fight.

Walter McCarthy--he is Unrestricted, but latest rumors have Orlando offering him a mult-year deal.

I wouldn't have any problem with any of the four; they are all young, long, and atheletic. Howard could become our designated swing-man and heir apparent to Fin.

[MikeB]

Of the group you mentioned Posey is probably out of our price range. Jumaine Jones is kind of intriguing. Lamar Odom is WAY out of what we can afford and Walter McCarty is not a good fit...wouldn't want him here.
Another name that I would not mind signing here for the veteran minimum is Calbert Cheaney. While he is not a great great player...he is pretty solid all around. He can play D and score on occasion plus get you a few boards.

TEAM G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
C.Cheaney UTA 81 74 29.0 325-651 .499 10-25 .400 40-69 .580 .90 2.60 3.50 2.0 .80 .16 1.33 2.80 8.6
J. Jones CLE 80 12 27.6 308-710 .434 111-314 .354 57-83 .687 1.30 3.70 5.10 1.4 .84 .28 1.34 2.20 9.8
Those are not bad stats for 29 min a game. He needs FT shooting work but is a serviceable SF. Jones is the better RB.

[uberfan]

To me, Cheaney has no upside at 32. He has been inconsistent, about the size of TAW, and he doesn't have the defense that TAW possesses. At least that is my assessment.

[MikeB]

Uber....I thought you were looking for this,

"We need a 25-30 minute a game veteran, so that rules out Pippen and probably Horry. We need someone who can defend, get a few rebounds and provide a little offense. We need someone who has played at the 3 before, but does not necessarily have had to be a previous starter. Let Howard get the other minutes and learn the NBA at a normal pace for a rookie that you expect to be part of your future."

If the idea is to have a proven veteran so that Howard can learn for a year...then Cheaney is actually a much better fit than is Jumaine Jones.

And this statement makes no sense at all,

"To me, Cheaney has no upside at 32. He has been inconsistent, about the size of TAW, and he doesn't have the defense that TAW possesses. At least that is my assessment. "

Cheaney(6-7 217) is closer to Finley's size than that of TAW, who is listed at 6-6 235, and is a much better scorer than TAW will ever be plus he has played more games in the last 2 years than TAW has played in the last 4. Cheaney is better than TAW and he is younger and more athletic than Walt Williams. He would be a very good fit for 1-2 years at the vet minimum.

[Fah Q]

Make Fin a permanent SF and sign Reggie Miller to a 1 year deal. I know it sounds crazy and I also hate him but he plays D and sink the three, what else are we gonna do? What do we have to lose?

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Fah Q
Make Fin a permanent SF and sign Reggie Miller to a 1 year deal. I know it sounds crazy and I also hate him but he plays D and sink the three, what else are we gonna do? What do we have to lose?

Like the screen name FahQ. Anyway I don't Miller is going anywhere. If Pacers had cap room yes but now that they've signed O'neal Miller isn't going anywhere.

[Chiwas]

The primary position that the Mavs MUST FILL is a SF--

Huh?

[dude1394]

I think there is a whole lot of sense here. Having a real sf and finley at the 2 helps our rebounding to the tune of 3-4 more per game. That's probably enough really. Right now our best sf has to be dirk because when najera plays he has to play pf. I'd much rather dirk be playing pf.

[Murphy3]

of course the mavs need a significant upgrade at the 2 spot.. they need someone that can keep fin and najera off the court as sf's...

is it the mavs biggest need? I honestly don't think so...but it is pretty close to their need on the interior

[uberfan]

[i] If the idea is to have a proven veteran so that Howard can learn for a year...then Cheaney is actually a much better fit than is Jumaine Jones.

Cheaney(6-7 217) is closer to Finley's size than that of TAW, who is listed at 6-6 235, and is a much better scorer than TAW will ever be plus he has played more games in the last 2 years than TAW has played in the last 4. Cheaney is better than TAW and he is younger and more athletic than Walt Williams. He would be a very good fit for 1-2 years at the vet minimum.

I was referring to Howard being the SG/SF swingman, not the starter at SF this year or next. As to Cheaney/TAW, I was referring to the defense and rebounding--which is our primary need over offense at the 3 with the current roster.

[one long blue sock]

Maggette was it.

[jayC]

not really. A small forward puts us over the top not. Front court players are. This team is much better at the trade then at free agency. After all we parlay chrisitan latner, bunch of spare draft picks for juwan howard, then he becomes nick van exel and raef lafrentz. Not to mention finley, nash and nowitzki were all acquired throught trades, draft day or otherwise.

Know in free agency they need to nab the best available player and that man might be stephen jackson. As far as needs small forwards at the end of the list.

[Chiwas]

The Mavs don't need a SF, as much as a Center. Even a PG is more needed than a SF right now.

If Dirk plays Center there is always a hole in the PG and it is formed a weak SF. When he plays SF there are two holes, in the center and the PF. When he plays PF, there is a hole in the PG and a weak SF.

With Howard and TAW playing well, Dirk can play the PF, then the priority has to be a Center.

I mean, the Howard-TAW combination for the SF looks better -in theory at least- than the Bradley-LaF's for Center and LaF-Najera's for PF.

BUT, in any way, there are enough spots to bring another SF, another PF and another C.

[uberfan]

Originally posted by: Chiwas
The Mavs don't need a SF, as much as a Center. Even a PG is more needed than a SF right now.

If Dirk plays Center there is always a hole in the PG and it is formed a weak SF. When he plays SF there are two holes, in the center and the PF. When he plays PF, there is a hole in the PG and a weak SF.

With Howard and TAW playing well, Dirk can play the PF, then the priority has to be a Center.

I mean, the Howard-TAW combination for the SF looks better -in theory at least- than the Bradley-LaF's for Center and LaF-Najera's for PF.

BUT, in any way, there are enough spots to bring another SF, another PF and another C.

OK, I am trying real hard to understand your logic, how does Dirk playing either C or PF leave a whole at PG?

Also, IF Howard and TAW play well at SF, then your problems at C are not as great as they are now. I can live with a rotation of Raef and Bradley at C if they are not having to come off their man to stop a guard who drives by our perimeter "defense".

You are not going to stop Shaq no matter who you get to play the 5, the only one who is going to stop Shaq is Shaq.

Duncan will get his as well. You are relying on Dirk against the Webber and Garnett, and I will take that trade-off as long as Raef/Shawn hold their own against Divac and Kandi.

When will our backcourt and SF position hold their own or play better defense against the other teams? Find the anwer to that question in the off-season and you have improved the team immensely.

[uberfan]

All the available Centers are being syphoned off. Unless someone knows of anyone who has never played in the NBA, we will not be able to make any improvements at the Ceneter position and must concentrate on other positions.

N'daye was someone the Mavs were rumored to be watching at the beginning of the summer, yet he is the Knicks summer camp.

"New York Post: The Knicks will take a look at a 7-foot free-agent center when the Utah portion of their summer-league begins today vs. Denver.
Mamadou N'diaye, a 2000 first-round pick, joined the Knicks in Salt Lake City yesterday. N'diaye spent three seasons with the Raptors, playing 22 games - eight of them starts- last year.

Knicks assistant GM Jeff Nix said N'diaye could be invited to veteran's training camp in October.

"He's a center, so we have to take a look at him," Nix said.


Now, I am not suggesting that he would have been the answer at center. I am saying that all options, even those very remote, are disappearing.

At SF, Boston has re-signed McCarthy for 3 years. I expect we will see a run on SF next.

Mavs cannot stand pat and expect to not lose ground. Period. Last year was last year. This is a new season. We cannot hope that everything will be OK. Treading water gets you know where.

Mavs MUST have a better bench, and get stronger with the starting five. You cannot continue to go to war with the Griffs, Bells, etc. playing SF. You cannot expect a rookie to play at a high level ALL year long and into the playoffs.

[Chiwas]

Let's count.

PG's. Nash, NVE, AJ. (3)
SG's. Finley (1)
SF's. Howard, TAW (2)
PF's. Dirk, Najera (2)
Centers. Bradkey, Raef, Esch (3)

or

PG's. Nash, NVE, AJ. (3)
SG's. Finley, Howard. (2)
SF's. Dirk, Najera, TAW (3)
PF's. Raef (1)
Centers. Bradley, Esch (2)

Or

SF's. Dirk, TAW (2)
PF's. Raef, Najera. (2)

Or

SF's. Dirk, TAW (2)
PF's. Najera (1)
Center. Raef, Shawn, Esch. (3)

In number of players, it seems the SG and the PF are the most uncovered, then the SF. However, in players on the position, and having Dirk as PF, it seems the Center the weakest and then the SF. IF Howard and TAW don't play well, and Shawn and Raef play regular or well, then the SF will be the weakest; or viceversa.

But hardly it's going to be available a center better than Bradley or Raef in the free agency, and the Mavs don't have money or players to trade (a trade would mean more holes in somewhere cause the Mavs are short of players, or would mean to get more players but worse players).

I would seek for a good Finley's backup, let Howard and TAW in the SF, try to keep Raja, and bring Daniels and Powell; if Raja can't stay, a veteran like Walt for the 4 or with more bulk for the 5 (thinking that Esch will be scarcely able to play due to his knees problems).



Edit: "OK, I am trying real hard to understand your logic, how does Dirk playing either C or PF leave a whole at PG?" It's a typo, it is "PF", not "PG", but only if Dirk plays Center, not PF as you added, course.

[uberfan]

[i]Edit: "OK, I am trying real hard to understand your logic, how does Dirk playing either C or PF leave a whole at PG?" It's a typo, it is "PF", not "PG", but only if Dirk plays Center, not PF as you added, course.

"If Dirk plays Center there is always a hole in the PG and it is formed a weak SF. When he plays SF there are two holes, in the center and the PF. When he plays PF, there is a hole in the PG and a weak SF."

I don't think I added anything to your comments. You had a whole at PG if Dirk playerd Center. Then you listed PG as a whole if he played PF. However, I uderstand you made a typo. So, rereading your comments, if Dirk plays Center we have a hole at PF, and if he plays PF, we still have a hole a PF?

[one long blue sock]

Exactly what i was going to say... except that Finley' s back up would probably be Bell if we could resign him.

[uberfan]

Chiwas,

OK, Let's count--and using only the players currently on the roster, show the actual rotation/depth charts as used by Nellie last year, and probably this year.

Possible combinations for depth chart based upon Nellie's rotation history:

PG's. Nash, NVE, AJ. (3)
SG's. Finley, NVE, TAW, Howard (4)
SF's. Najera, Fin, Dirk, Howard, TAW (5)
PF's. Dirk, Najera, Raef (3)
Centers. Bradley, Raef, Dirk, Esch (4)

It appears to me that holes are created in most of the other positions by trying to fill the SF position. We moving Fin to the 3, it causes NVE to be moved to the 2. When moving Dirk to the 3, the history has been that Najera or Griff/Buck/Bell types are brought in to defend the opposing SF, which often creates a match up problem for us.

Are you ready to annoint Howard as the starting SF from day one? How many times have we seen rookies hit the wall hard during the NBA regular season? It seems to me he would be more effective as swingman at SG/SF providing valuable substitution minutes at those two spots.

Can we count on TAW being back from his injuries entirely, or staying out of Nellie's doghouse most of the season?

Wouldn't NVE be even more effective as a change of pace PG coming off the bench? Wouldn't it be better to have a TAW or Howard providing defense at the 2 (or 3) with NVE in and Fin needing a blow?

You KNOW there will be long stretches of games where Najera, LaFrentz, and TAW are in Nellie's doghouse. If Bell is re-signed, he and Howard will probably be there as well from time-to-time.

A signed Daniels will likely be on the IL with AJ and EE, don't see nellie trying to work 2 rookies into the rotation this year.

[one long blue sock]

Who else do they have besides Howard to log more then 20 MPG at the 3.

If they moved Dirk to the 3, then you would be forced to play Raef, and Bradley at the same time, which would cause the back up at the 5 to be Esh... Not a smart move.

The Mavs will probably start a scrub the first half of the season, then Howard for the second half.

[uberfan]

Originally posted by: one long blue sock
Who else do they have besides Howard to log more then 20 MPG at the 3.

If they moved Dirk to the 3, then you would be forced to play Raef, and Bradley at the same time, which would cause the back up at the 5 to be Esh... Not a smart move.

The Mavs will probably start a scrub the first half of the season, then Howard for the second half.

The way it stands now, it's TAW and Howard splitting SF duty. Assume you re-sign Bell

Then you have a starting 5 of

Nash
Fin
TAW
Dirk
Bradley

with second team rotation of

NVE
Bell
Howard
Najera
Raef

Current expected bench is AJ and Daniels. Leaves two open spots if Mavs start with 15 (3 on IL).

Esch is the IL to start.

[one long blue sock]

Usually Raef has averaged 13, 7, 2...

But this past year it slipped to 9, 5, 1. I would give Raef another chance before startign Bradley again.

[uberfan]

Originally posted by: one long blue sock
Usually Raef has averaged 13, 7, 2...

But this past year it slipped to 9, 5, 1. I would give Raef another chance before startign Bradley again.

By starting Bradley you have the advantage over Raef on the tip, and then you have Raef providing scoring while Najera is in for Dirk.