The NO major trade camp - I'm in. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tsar · 02-17-2011, 12:03 PM

I think this deserves it's own thread. I am of the belief that a major trade will impact the chemistry of the team. Especially for a guy like Melo, who has never been known to be character, team first, kind of player. The team seems to be hitting it's stride and I don't think we've seen the team peak yet. Our offense has been looking incredible, and the scary part is, it might even get more efficient as we near the playoffs. Our defense is not on par with where it was at before all the injuries piled up but the team is slowly working to find the rhythm on that end and we've seen progress over these last few weeks. I'm scared of trading Roddy away because I think he can become a very special player and it's getting hard to argue against this, not only because of the way we've seen him play but the way his team mates talk about the kid.

I was just listening to The Ticket and they mentioned somebody asking Carlisle about who has the best BBIQ on the team and it basically boiled down to Kidd and Roddy (1 and 1A). I was shocked to hear this, but even more shocked to have this come from Carlisle's mouth. From what I've read/heard; Roddy is an incredibly hard worker and student of the game, constantly picking at Jason Kidds brain and infusing himself with as much bball knowledge as possible. His team mates love him, the fans love him... don't mess with a good thing.

Chemistry is hard thing to achieve and I believe bringing somebody like Melo will actually impact the team in a negative way. I'm all for making a small move before the deadline to bring in another role player but please... no major trades. I don't think I have ever seen a Mavs team like this one, where all the players have a level of continuity, trust in each other, and of course unselfishness: taking sacrifices for the betterment of the team. I don't know if we'll make it to the finals but for the first time in a long time I believe that we have a group that is CAPABLE of making it.

JamesVE · 02-17-2011, 12:12 PM

I completely agree. I want no part of Melo (or any other major trade at that)

j0Shi · 02-17-2011, 12:17 PM

Don't go crazy after one impressive win against the Kings please. It is not like the main problem regarding the playoffs has gone since yesterday: Who is going to constantly score if Dirk can't? I think the recent play made a deal less imminent, but if there something out there for Carons contract plus picks plus DoJo which improves the team you should still think about it.

EricaLubarsky · 02-17-2011, 12:17 PM

I'm with you for the most part. Championships are usually about chemistry, which has taken us years to perfect. This year its finally clicked and all we really did was trade Damp for Chandler.

That said, you have to look for the right price. If that star/superstar comes down the line and its cheap, you gotta jump on that. Maybe not at a discount price but at clearance rate a la Gasol.

then again, we have very few movable pieces. 2011/2013 picks, a few trade exceptions (with no roster spaces to take players with). Other than that its Butler and Stevenson's expirings (10.6/4.2) and cheap players like Jones/Roddy and overpriced players like Haywood (who many teams may balk at).

Haywood might cost us value to get rid of his contract. Butler may come back full strength and trading him would cost us if he came back in the playoffs as well as his bird rights to re-sign him. Roddy is an x-factor that many people both inside and outside the organization dont wanna part with.

Underdog · 02-17-2011, 12:25 PM

Caron Butler for Tayshaun Prince still makes sense (from our end).

Butler isn't coming back this season (at least not enough to make an impact), I don't care what he says. Plus, both Prince and Butler are expirings, so we could always bring Caron back next season...

But I agree - there's no point in gutting the team for a guy like Melo, nor would I tamper with our chemistry over a Jax/Crash/Iggy type of player...

I like our team.

dalmations202 · 02-17-2011, 12:34 PM

I am all-in with the same as my view of the Michael Young debacle. Trade if it makes the team better -- keep if it doesn't.

They just lose money if they don't perform.

Kidd Karma · 02-17-2011, 12:39 PM

Interesting, if RC said Boobs and Kidd have the best BBIQ on the team, I'm convinced outside of Dwight Howard and Lebron, I don't trade Boobs.

LonghornDub · 02-17-2011, 12:43 PM

Out.

badfish22 · 02-17-2011, 12:56 PM

I love this team as much as the next guy, but its quickly forgotten how confident we mavfans were heading into the playoffs last year. Its been proven every year that once the playoffs hit, it becomes evident that Dirk is our only reliable scorer. And you can't go far in the playoffs relying on one guy, no matter who he is.
Jason Terry has disappeared two years in a row, Marions scoring usually is nonexistent in the playoffs, and Kidd is stopped by basically just running him off the three point line. Our only other guy that could been a reliable playoff scorer is going to be in a suit for the rest of the year.

LonghornDub · 02-17-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

I love this team as much as the next guy, but its quickly forgotten how confident we mavfans were heading into the playoffs last year. Its been proven every year that once the playoffs hit, it becomes evident that Dirk is our only reliable scorer. And you can't go far in the playoffs relying on one guy, no matter who he is.

Jason Terry has disappeared two years in a row, Marions scoring usually is nonexistent in the playoffs, and Kidd is stopped by basically just running him off the three point line. Our only other guy that could been a reliable playoff scorer is going to be in a suit for the rest of the year.

Not sure I agree entirely with the bolded statement, but I agree with you generally.

Kidd Karma · 02-17-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

I love this team as much as the next guy, but its quickly forgotten how confident we mavfans were heading into the playoffs last year. Its been proven every year that once the playoffs hit, it becomes evident that Dirk is our only reliable scorer. And you can't go far in the playoffs relying on one guy, no matter who he is.
Jason Terry has disappeared two years in a row, Marions scoring usually is nonexistent in the playoffs, and Kidd is stopped by basically just running him off the three point line. Our only other guy that could been a reliable playoff scorer is going to be in a suit for the rest of the year.

RC didn't use Roddy a year ago, if this kid can just attack the cup relentlessly, it is an added weapon we can go to the well with. Dirk on the weakside, Kidd, Jet and Peja spotting up, Roddy creating. I think doing a major trade mid stream does hit the chemistry pretty hard, now if you're going Tayshaun for Caron.....with picks, cash/ DoJo, then do it, if we're adding, not subtracting from our rotation.

dirt_dobber · 02-17-2011, 01:26 PM

I do LOVE the current chemistry and makeup of this team. I say let's roll with what we got!

Luc · 02-17-2011, 01:38 PM

If getting Melo means giving up on Dsteve, Caron and Dojo we should pull the trigger straight away. Chemistry doesn't scare the Heat, Melo + Dirk will.

clutch#41 · 02-17-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Don't go crazy after one impressive win against the Kings please. It is not like the main problem regarding the playoffs has gone since yesterday: Who is going to constantly score if Dirk can't? I think the recent play made a deal less imminent, but if there something out there for Carons contract plus picks plus DoJo which improves the team you should still think about it.

i dont understand your point hear. i understand dirk is the leader of team and everything but this is not 06 when dirk went down the whole team did. this is the best mavs team we ever had. picking up peja was a brillant move. in point dirk only scored 13pts last night and overall the mavs scored 116. if dirk took a week off for rest before the playoffs, i wouldnt expect this team to lose.

Underdog · 02-17-2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc

If getting Melo means giving up on Dsteve, Caron and Dojo we should pull the trigger straight away. Chemistry doesn't scare the Heat, Melo + Dirk will.

Obviously you pull the trigger on a deal like that, but I don't see any reason why Denver would...

If you want Melo, you gotta overpay - no way around it.

mavs777 · 02-17-2011, 02:03 PM

Considering Melo would help this team in many ways, I would love him, I don't want Jackson anymore tho

SMC0007 · 02-17-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Obviously you pull the trigger on a deal like that, but I don't see any reason why Denver would...

If you want Melo, you gotta overpay - no way around it.

Getting Melo without an extension for anything more than aforementioned deal could be overpaying no?

j0Shi · 02-17-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

i dont understand your point hear. i understand dirk is the leader of team and everything but this is not 06 when dirk went down the whole team did. this is the best mavs team we ever had. picking up peja was a brillant move. in point dirk only scored 13pts last night and overall the mavs scored 116. if dirk took a week off for rest before the playoffs, i wouldnt expect this team to lose.

2-7 without him?

And still its a sample size of 1 game against lowly Kings. I am fully buying into the concept that the team as a whole could be that "2nd option," but if you take a single game as evidence you are fooling yourself.

Luc · 02-17-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Obviously you pull the trigger on a deal like that, but I don't see any reason why Denver would...

If you want Melo, you gotta overpay - no way around it.

You're right. But I'm not thinking about a straight trade. We could use another team and throw in picks, cash, exceptions etc

Kidd Karma · 02-17-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Getting Melo without an extension for anything more than aforementioned deal could be overpaying no?

...given the uncertainty of the CBA and max deals....Melo needs to sign an extension this season.

mavs777 · 02-17-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Obviously you pull the trigger on a deal like that, but I don't see any reason why Denver would...

If you want Melo, you gotta overpay - no way around it.

Not if he agrees to sign an extension

Underdog · 02-17-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Not if he agrees to sign an extension

But you're dealing with DENVER, not Melo - they don't care if he signs an extension or not, they just want the most compensation they can get (and both the Nets and Knicks can top a mediocre package like Butler/Stevenson/DoJo...)

Kidd Karma · 02-17-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But you're dealing with DENVER, not Melo - they don't care if he signs an extension or not, they just want the most compensation they can get (and both the Nets and Knicks can top a mediocre package like Butler/Stevenson/DoJo...)

....and that's where Melo gets desperate, probably loses a good amount of cash, but will the Knicks follow suit and meet the Nuggets' demands.

LonghornDub · 02-17-2011, 03:30 PM

"Look at me I'm imported" tag got me, for some reason.

deamon · 02-17-2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Don't go crazy after one impressive win against the Kings please.

Smartest words in this thread.

Underdog · 02-17-2011, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

"Look at me I'm imported" tag got me, for some reason.

Yeah, I didn't understand where the "look at me i'm important" tag came from, so I gave him some company...

clutch#41 · 02-17-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

2-7 without him?

And still its a sample size of 1 game against lowly Kings. I am fully buying into the concept that the team as a whole could be that "2nd option," but if you take a single game as evidence you are fooling yourself.

thats without peja, a healthy roddy and a surging and suprising barrea.

mavs777 · 02-17-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But you're dealing with DENVER, not Melo - they don't care if he signs an extension or not, they just want the most compensation they can get (and both the Nets and Knicks can top a mediocre package like Butler/Stevenson/DoJo...)

You said overpaying though, if Carmello signs an extension at any place and Denver does trade him they will not get equal value

Murphy3 · 02-17-2011, 04:19 PM

This team sucks still without Dirk...

CadBane · 02-17-2011, 04:20 PM

Man you guys are myopic. We absolutely need a trade if want a ring. If you're happy with making it to the 2nd round, and a micro chance of the WCF, sure, no trade.

Yeah guys like JJB, Jet, Marion, etc. look great scoring in the regular season against teams like the Kings. The playoffs is a whole different story. Even with Roddy, this team needs a reliable #2 option when things get tight and Dirk is doubled. We've seen how Jet, Kidd, Marion and co. handle that kind of defensive pressure in the playoffs. And the results have not been favorable.

Maringa · 02-17-2011, 04:40 PM

I wish we had at least one game with the Spurs or Lakers before the trade deadline, and with at least the current new players having played at lead 10 games...This would be a better gauge as to whether we need to make a trade or not. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury...

sefant77 · 02-17-2011, 04:48 PM

Im down for two trades:

Butler for Prince with a silent agreement with Butler to come back over the MLE (since we dont need the MLE when we resign Chandler and Barea - all set)

or of course the superstar trade BUT just if it doesnt mess too much:
Melo for Butler/Stevenson/Roddy

I dont wanna do it if you need to throw in also Terry to absorb a contract like Harrington or Birdman. I dont like playoff Terry but it would screw up with chemistry/rotations etc.

SMC0007 · 02-17-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Man *SOME of* you guys are myopic. We absolutely need a trade if want a ring. If you're happy with making it to the 2nd round, and a micro chance of the WCF, sure, no trade.

Yeah guys like JJB, Jet, Marion, etc. look great scoring in the regular season against teams like the Kings. The playoffs is a whole different story. Even with Roddy, this team needs a reliable #2 option when things get tight and Dirk is doubled. We've seen how Jet, Kidd, Marion and co. handle that kind of defensive pressure in the playoffs. And the results have not been favorable.

fyp

Fintastic4 · 02-17-2011, 05:04 PM

Would you guys trade Butler and Stevenson for Melo? The numbers work.

Murphy3 · 02-17-2011, 05:04 PM

CadBane, you might be right. I wish that there was more time to find out before the playoffs start. We've seen in the past that this team can struggle in the playoffs to score points even when Dirk has a great series... I certainly wish that there was more time to evaluate the team before the deadline.

tsar · 02-17-2011, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Man you guys are myopic. We absolutely need a trade if want a ring. If you're happy with making it to the 2nd round, and a micro chance of the WCF, sure, no trade.

Yeah guys like JJB, Jet, Marion, etc. look great scoring in the regular season against teams like the Kings. The playoffs is a whole different story. Even with Roddy, this team needs a reliable #2 option when things get tight and Dirk is doubled. We've seen how Jet, Kidd, Marion and co. handle that kind of defensive pressure in the playoffs. And the results have not been favorable.

What if Roddy does turn into that number 2 option? There are plenty of games before the season ends and the playoffs begin, and plenty of time for him to come full circle. I don't want play rento-Melo (which by the way, does NOT guarantee us a trip to the finals, WCF, second round, whatever) and then watch Roddy develop into a super star in Denver. There's no guarantee that we'll make it far, but I like our chances more so than I've liked our chances in the past few years. Sometimes it's better not to change a good thing... we've made 2 huge trades in the last 3 years and have not let the team develop the much needed chemistry that championship teams have.

I'm not blind: I can see the argument for a trade, and it makes sense in a lot of aspects but you have to look at the team concept and the intangibles that come with time and playing together as a unit.

jcm28 · 02-17-2011, 05:21 PM

I agree that we don't need a trade anymore. If butler makes a miracle 1st round comeback, our team will be VERY boobylicious.

Usually Lurkin · 02-17-2011, 05:22 PM

Muphy's right. This team sucks without Dirk. We've got Dirk and a bunch of Jason Terrys. Maybe we have enough Terrys at this point that we've increased the possibility that at least one will hit his shots for 4 wins in a playoff series. But this is the NBA. Teams don't win a championship in today's NBA without multiple superstars on the roster. We've don't even have multiple all-stars.

CadBane · 02-17-2011, 05:25 PM

I love Roddy, but I don't see him being a reliable #2 option in what will essentially be his first playoff run. If there's a deal for Melo, you have to do it. With Melo, even a cynic such as myself really likes our chances for a ring.

As it is, we have a collection of 3rd-4th options. Guys like Jet, Marion, Kidd, JJB, etc. have too many offensive limitations that are more exposed in the playoffs. Roddy is the only guy besides Dirk that can create his own shot, and I'm not relying on his rise to stardom.

SMC0007 · 02-17-2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I love Roddy, but I don't see him being a reliable #2 option in what will essentially be his first playoff run. If there's a deal for Melo, you have to do it. With Melo, even a cynic such as myself really likes our chances for a ring.

As it is, we have a collection of 3rd-4th options. Guys like Jet, Marion, Kidd, JJB, etc. have too many offensive limitations that are more exposed in the playoffs. Roddy is the only guy besides Dirk that can create his own shot, and I'm not relying on his rise to stardom.

Well you better learn to because they aren't trading him unless Melo agrees to sign an extension, which there is no way in hell he would.