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Old 02-17-2011, 06:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by CadBane View Post
We probablyneed a trade if want a ring. If you're happy with making it to the 2nd round, and a micro chance of the WCF, sure, no trade.

Yeah guys like JJB, Jet, Marion, etc. look great scoring in the regular season against teams like the Kings. The playoffs is a whole different story. Even with Roddy, this team needs a reliable #2 option when things get tight and Dirk is doubled. We've seen how Jet, Kidd, Marion and co. handle that kind of defensive pressure in the playoffs. And the results have not been favorable.
With my one minor change, I co-sign this post.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:13 PM   #42
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With my one minor change, I co-sign this post.
agreed
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:16 PM   #43
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So, who are we trading for again?

Which player is going to magically put us over the top? (and which team is going to give him up without asking for one of our key players in return?)

Is it Melo-or-bust? (because some of you are going to be VERY disappointed if that's what you're thinking...)
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:18 PM   #44
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So, who are we trading for again?

Which player is going to magically put us over the top? (and which team is going to give him up without asking for one of our key players in return?)

Is it Melo-or-bust? (because some of you are going to be VERY disappointed if that's what you're thinking...)
I was thinking '97 Jordan. But I'm open to ideas.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:42 PM   #45
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I wish the Melo hopefulls around here would wake the f up. You're just asking for Cliff Lee part two.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:44 PM   #46
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who?
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:47 PM   #47
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What position are we looking for again? I keep reading that we need a "legitimate second scorer" behind Dirk (as if our scoring is a problem), so which position are we trying to fill and who's getting bumped to make room for them?

Dirk, Chandler and Kidd certainly aren't going to be replaced this season (as if they CAN be), so we're obviously looking at the 2 and 3 positions...

Not many 2's out there who are an obvious upgrade over Roddy, especially not when you consider the price... I like Kevin Martin, but I also don't think taking a huge step backwards defensively is going to get us any closer to a ring (nor can I imagine any scenario where Houston would trade him to us...)

Hard to say whether Jax, Crash or Iggy are even on the market right now, but I imagine it'll take more than just Butler's expiring to land any of them (and would any of those guys really put us "over the top" if they're cutting into Marion and Peja's minutes?)

Anyone in a Rip Hamilton mood?

Prince makes sense, but would Butler/picks/cash really be enough to entice Detroit to trade one expiring for another (especially since several other teams in the league can top that)? If so, that's easily the most (read: only) sensible deal we can pursue...

I mean, do you guys really think Butler/Stevenson/DoJo is the best offer Denver is going to get for Melo? (put down your crackpipe before you answer)... And would you really go "all-in" by including Roddy just so we can rent one of the most selfish players in the NBA for half a season?



For bonus points: name ONE team in the league that you don't think we can take in a 7-game series as currently constructed...
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:21 PM   #48
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What position are we looking for again? I keep reading that we need a "legitimate second scorer" behind Dirk (as if our scoring is a problem), so which position are we trying to fill and who's getting bumped to make room for them?

Dirk, Chandler and Kidd certainly aren't going to be replaced this season (as if they CAN be), so we're obviously looking at the 2 and 3 positions...

Not many 2's out there who are an obvious upgrade over Roddy, especially not when you consider the price... I like Kevin Martin, but I also don't think taking a huge step backwards defensively is going to get us any closer to a ring (nor can I imagine any scenario where Houston would trade him to us...)

Hard to say whether Jax, Crash or Iggy are even on the market right now, but I imagine it'll take more than just Butler's expiring to land any of them (and would any of those guys really put us "over the top" if they're cutting into Marion and Peja's minutes?)

Anyone in a Rip Hamilton mood?

Prince makes sense, but would Butler/picks/cash really be enough to entice Detroit to trade one expiring for another (especially since several other teams in the league can top that)? If so, that's easily the most (read: only) sensible deal we can pursue...

I mean, do you guys really think Butler/Stevenson/DoJo is the best offer Denver is going to get for Melo? (put down your crackpipe before you answer)... And would you really go "all-in" by including Roddy just so we can rent one of the most selfish players in the NBA for half a season?
I agree with most (though not all) of this, but feeling that we need a trade to really compete for a title is not the same as thinking that there is actually some good trade option (or options) out there.

We may well be the victims of circumstance in that there just isn't anything we can do given our assets and the market, for the reasons you've described here. If that's the case, I don't advocate making a trade just for the sake of it. I'd rather roll with what we have, which I think is quite solid. But my personal opinion is that we're a guy short, and as bullish as I am on Roddy's future, I'm not sure this year he's quite ready to be that guy.

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For bonus points: name ONE team in the league that you don't think we can take in a 7-game series as currently constructed...
We have to beat more than any one given team to accomplish what we want to accomplish. As presently constructed, I would put at about 5% our odds of beating in succession <insert mid-range West team here>, the Spurs, the Lakers, and the Heat/Celtics/Magic. Winning a championship is always a crapshoot anyway, but I'd like to see my personal assessment of our odds at closer to 15% to 20%, and I don't see that happening without a trade.

Unless Roddy just completely blows me away.....

Of course, that assumes the toughest playoff path imaginable, which isn't a guaranteed thing, but that's the assumption I'll use for now.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:37 PM   #49
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So, who are we trading for again?

Which player is going to magically put us over the top? (and which team is going to give him up without asking for one of our key players in return?)

Is it Melo-or-bust? (because some of you are going to be VERY disappointed if that's what you're thinking...)
This more or less describes my opinion (and has for the last couple of months). There isn't anyone out there that looks to be available for a reasonable price that's going to push us over the top. So I've been in the 'no major trade camp' for a while. I'm ready to go to battle with what we've got. If that doesn't do the trick, then it just wasn't meant to be.

People can complain about "having no second option on the team" all they want, but you won't find a better second option than Roddy with the exception of Melo, and I'm very hesitant to pony up what it would likely take to get him.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:51 PM   #50
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I was thinking '97 Jordan. But I'm open to ideas.
I was thinking '91 Jordan, maybe '87 Magic. Butler, Dojo, and picks for MJ! Do it Cubes!
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:59 PM   #51
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I was thinking '97 Jordan. But I'm open to ideas.
2011 Michael Jordan? (just turned 48 today...)

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“He’s Mike. He’s been kicking our butts,” answered forward Gerald Wallace. “He still has it.”
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:02 PM   #52
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we clearly have the most guys the mavs have ever had that are ABLE to score 20 on a given night with:
Dirk,
Terry,
Barea,
Roddy,
Marion

and occasionally:
Kidd,
Chandler,
Peja

Our problem could very well be that we are too deep. we have a 9 player rotation and most teams will only play 7, maybe 8 in the playoffs so we will lose the advantage we currently have when the benches are on the court.

Anyone saying we are fine without dirk are crazy.... his mere presence on the floor makes it easier for everyone else on offense because of the 1.5 defenders he draws WITHOUT having the ball.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:49 PM   #53
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The NO major trade

I am against it.

Oh..., this thread is not about bringing in Chris Paul from NO...?

Well, then... I don't like Melo, not even a bit... but I don't think there will be a chemistry issue if we are winning. So if there is a chance to land him, do it.

I'd like to see how Roddy develops from here on out, though. Would be painful to watch him elsewhere become a superstar.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:51 PM   #54
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Have you guys even seen what Denver wants from the Knicks for Melo? Can't remember exactly..I think it was 3 starters, including Felton, a first round draft pick or some such, and maybe another guy off the bench.. However, I believe that trade would include Billups. I'd like someone to confirm exactly what Denver was asking so I don't look like an idiot. Pretty sure that's the reason it hasn't happened yet. They want some ridiculous $h!t for Melo, and who can blame them? He's averaging like 36 points this month. It's almost like he's showing off right before the deadline. I've thought about how it would be if he came here, and the picture in my mind is always of him and Chandler getting up in each other's faces heheh.

But I want him. I want Dallas to get some attention outside of the regular fan base. We rarely have highlights on ESPN. LA gets more highlights when they lose. American Airlines Center would sell out every night. Doubt it's going to happen, but I want him here.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:56 PM   #55
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Mark Cuban: No sense of urgency

DALLAS -- Owner Mark Cuban doesn't believe the Dallas Mavericks need to make a deal before the Feb. 24 trade deadline to be legitimate contenders.

That isn't an indication that the Mavs, who sit in the Western Conference's second seed, will abstain from trade talk through All-Star Weekend and into next week. But the man who pulled off blockbuster trades during two of the previous three All-Star breaks doesn't have an itchy trigger finger after watching the Mavs win 12 of the last 13 games.

"I'm going to be opportunistic, and if somebody comes along and makes an offer we can't refuse, I'm going to grab it," Cuban said. "But there's not as much a sense of urgency to do something as there was last year."

Cuban, of course, hasn't always been completely forthcoming when discussing his team's intentions in the trade market. He shot down reports that the Mavs were in serious discussions with the New Jersey Nets three years ago until a complicated multi-player deal had been agreed upon. The Mavs had lost five of nine games before that deal, which sent Devin Harris to New Jersey.

However, Cuban made it clear he felt that the Mavs' core needed to be altered in the weeks leading up to last season's All-Star break. The Mavericks were in the midst of a month-and-a-half long stretch of mediocrity when they made the seven-player trade with the Washington Wizards, which brought Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and DeShawn Stevenson to Dallas.

At that point, the Mavs had won only 10 of their previous 21 games. They were a struggling team with significant chemistry concerns, which were addressed by sending disgruntled and disengaged forward Josh Howard to Washington.

That isn't the case this season, when Dirk Nowitzki is surrounded by the deepest supporting cast of his career and new center Tyson Chandler has emerged as an emotional leader and defensive anchor.

"It's different circumstances obviously," Cuban said. "We've really had a lot of people step up this year. We really didn't have that last year."

The Mavericks have also been able to make two major additions recently without giving up any players: the signing of small forward Peja Stojakovic after 13-year veteran received a buyout from the Toronto Raptors and the season debut of dynamic young guard Rodrigue Beaubois after a lengthy recovery from a broken left foot.

Stojakovic has been a starter since his first appearance in a Mavericks uniform. He shot poorly during his first three games for Dallas, which came after a two-month layoff to deal with a sore left knee, but he has 34 points on 13-of-23 shooting in the last two games.

Beaubois, who showed flashes of brilliance as a raw rookie last season and was primed for a much bigger role before breaking his foot in August, dazzled during his season debut in Wednesday's win over the Sacramento Kings. He had 13 points, six assists and three steals in 21 minutes.

Cuban hoped he'd get a longer look at the Mavs with Beaubois before the All-Star break to give the team's brass a chance to evaluate the roster at full strength. However, Cuban has seen enough to be convinced that the 39-16 Mavs are potential champions.

"Absolutely. Absolutely," said Cuban, who is more concerned with the Mavs' tendency to blow big leads than the talent on the roster. "We're playing well. We've got some potential.

"I think we have the ability to win a championship, but we have a long way to go before we're ready to win a championship. We've got to play every possession with discipline, and we're not there yet."
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:58 PM   #56
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Okay here it is that wasn't too hard to find. I was pretty close actually. I think Felton is better than Billups, so I wouldn't do it. He and Amare have great chemistry.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...on_starte.html
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:02 PM   #57
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Main reason I kinda want Melo is his clutch play. We really don't have that here. Most of our players fall apart in a tight game (Dirk's missed free throw at Denver comes to mind), and Melo is arguably the best in the league in that area, even better than Kobe.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:04 PM   #58
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There is only one position I feel is worth pursuing as a potential "need." Based on the fact they're hard to acquire as is, it's not worth it unless a buyout just works out the Mavs way.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:10 PM   #59
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Do you mean small forward?
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:17 PM   #60
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If we still had Caron as a player instead of a towel waiver, I wouldn't even consider a trade. The team we have right now is pretty damn good, however, there are reasons to believe, as CadBane mentioned, that we're still not good enough to win it all.

When you compare this year's team to last year's team, there aren't that many differences. Tyson undoubtedly represents a major improvement over Damp. Other than that, replacing Butler with Peja is a wash at best. We're basically hoping that Chandler instead of Damp and more minutes for Roddy can turn a team that lost in the 1st round last year into championship material.

If guys like Chandler, Jet, Kidd, Marion and JJB could keep their current level of play and if Roddy and Peja could turn into productive players from this point forward, it might work out. I'm just not sure that that's going to happen in consecutive playoff series against the best teams in the league.

One of Caron's more crucial abilities was to step up on offense. When Dirk hurt his knee earlier this season and we played the Spurs a couple of days later, Butler took the responsibility on offense and scored 30 points. In last year's two elimination games against the Spurs in the playoffs, he scored 35 and 25 respectively.

We just don't seem to have that type of player on our team right now who can take some pressure off of Dirk. Maybe Roddy can be that guy. Maybe the other guys on our team will be more productive this time to make up for the lack of a 2nd option on offense. We'll probably have to hope for both, given that there's apparently no player available who could replace Caron on offense. As much as I'd like to see a guy like Prince in a Mavs uniform, he's no Caron on offense either as far as his ability to create offense is concerned.

If the stars align in our favor, we could be good enough. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't and we were still that one player away, whose name could be Butler. His injury really sucks. Not because he's THAT great, don't get me wrong. But with the team we have, we don't need another great player to compete. We may just need one more decent two-way player with the ability to create offense. Like Caron.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:17 PM   #61
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Do you mean small forward?
No, they could find one if they really wanted one.
Prince would be the icing on the cake, but I don't see that happening unless Detroit really softens their stance. At that point, it's hard to imagine the pieces truly fit for Detroit's liking.

I'd rather look for a center, you can never have enough bigs. It's been great to see Chandler playing the way he is, but I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to protecting against an injury or something. It's hard to imagine that Haywood would magically pop up as a consistent threat if Chandler were to go down with an injury.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:41 PM   #62
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Very much agree. Hard to find extra bigs. It's that spot that you can't really put someone who plays another position at. A forward is a forward. Tons of good centers this year, too. Really liking Love, Nene, Okafor, Ilguaskas. I can't stand Bogut, though. His name and his appearance just grosses me out a little bit.

I'm wondering, what are the chances of losing Chandler at the end of this season do you think? You think that he likes it enough here to want to get an extension? I would like to think so, but who knows. Don't want another Cliff Lee.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:48 PM   #63
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You're crazy not taking a deal for a player like Melo. Even if Beaubois has the potential to be a special player. Melo is a proven player and you know what you will get from him. He and Dirk would be a great 1-2 punch. Don't forget that Dirk makes everyone better. A lineup of Kidd, Stevenson, Melo, Nowitzki, and Chandler would be highly effective imo.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:58 PM   #64
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Kidd is getting old, though, and I think with Roddy learning from Kidd we will have a young PG who has the potential to be extremely good. He had 3 steals the other night. Already showing signs of being the next Kidd.

But I agree with you. Melo is proven and also young. The problem is Denver wants an arm and a leg for the guy. Actually, more like 12 arms and legs. Maybe a few torsos as well. I don't think anyone is willing to sacrifice so much for him at this point. NJ and NY are already tired of the BS. I bet he sticks with Denver until the end of the season.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:59 PM   #65
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Very much agree. Hard to find extra bigs. It's that spot that you can't really put someone who plays another position at. A forward is a forward. Tons of good centers this year, too. Really liking Love, Nene, Okafor, Ilguaskas. I can't stand Bogut, though. His name and his appearance just grosses me out a little bit.

I'm wondering, what are the chances of losing Chandler at the end of this season do you think? You think that he likes it enough here to want to get an extension? I would like to think so, but who knows. Don't want another Cliff Lee.
I think a franchise tag is coming. So, even if there was an issue with keeping Chandler, that will go a long way in helping them. I don't think there are any major rumblings to think that they'll lose Chandler in the off-season. He's learned not to take things for granted since he's been dealt many times. Despite that feeling, he loves being in Dallas and loves the organization.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:06 PM   #66
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Main reason I kinda want Melo is his clutch play. We really don't have that here. Most of our players fall apart in a tight game (Dirk's missed free throw at Denver comes to mind), and Melo is arguably the best in the league in that area, even better than Kobe.
Melo has missed plenty of FT's in tight games in his career. Dirk's just as good in the clutch as anyone. Bad comparison.

Note: This is coming from someone who wants Melo on the Mavs.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:10 PM   #67
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Melo has missed plenty of FT's in tight games in his career. Dirk's just as good in the clutch as anyone. Bad comparison.

Note: This is coming from someone who wants Melo on the Mavs.
True. I suppose I just haven't seen much clutch from Dirk lately compared to other players. I guess I just notice Melo more because he basically out plays his entire team every game.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:42 PM   #68
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True. I suppose I just haven't seen much clutch from Dirk lately compared to other players. I guess I just notice Melo more because he basically out plays his entire team every game.
He's certainly as dynamic a scorer as they come.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:42 PM   #69
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Melo has missed plenty of FT's in tight games in his career. Dirk's just as good in the clutch as anyone. Bad comparison.

Note: This is coming from someone who wants Melo on the Mavs.
Yeah, that guy is off target. Melo is certainly clutch, but Dirk is a top 5 clutch player in the NBA (one could argue Melo is as well). Citing a Dirk missed FT is pretty humorous considering Dirk led the NBA with a 98% clutch ft. Led it by several points.
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Old 02-17-2011, 10:44 PM   #70
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Well you better learn to because they aren't trading him unless Melo agrees to sign an extension, which there is no way in hell he would.
I don't want them to trade him (unless it's for Melo). I think he certainly can be a #2. I'm saying I'm not relying on his rise to stardom THIS year to make us good enough for a ring.
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:28 PM   #71
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Don´t want Melo in Dallas. Stays 6 months, no title, he leaves, Roddy in 1-2 years playing really great, thanks!
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:20 AM   #72
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Part of the new Melo deal with NJ is that a new team might take on Murphy and get one of NJs 1st round picks....hmmm.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:29 AM   #73
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If Melo agrees to an extension then you do the deal. If not then you tip your hat and go with what you've got.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:59 AM   #74
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Part of the new Melo deal with NJ is that a new team might take on Murphy and get one of NJs 1st round picks....hmmm.

Who would/could be the secret team receiving Murphy? Will a Melo trade just happen already haha.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:36 AM   #75
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Part of the new Melo deal with NJ is that a new team might take on Murphy and get one of NJs 1st round picks....hmmm.
id be all over that
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:07 AM   #76
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Yeah, that guy is off target. Melo is certainly clutch, but Dirk is a top 5 clutch player in the NBA (one could argue Melo is as well). Citing a Dirk missed FT is pretty humorous considering Dirk led the NBA with a 98% clutch ft. Led it by several points.
There's nothing wrong with Dirk, don't get me wrong. My mistake. That particular free throw was the difference between going into OT and a loss. Sounds like almost the epitome of clutch. On the other hand, Melo hit everything he threw up (so did Aflalo, but whatever). It was just one game, I know, but Denver seems to have an edge on Dallas for some reason. Which is funny to me because it seems like the top teams are handled pretty well most of the time this season.

That was just the most recent thing I remembered and it shocked me. I haven't seen much clutch play from him in recent games is all. I love him, he holds the team together, he makes everyone around him better, but you guys must know that the Mavs tend to let leads slip away really easily. I think Melo would be a good addition to any team, but losing Roddy B doesn't sounds good to me. Honestly, wouldn't want to lose anyone the way they are playing.

But, yeah, Dirk rarely misses a FT, which is why it stuck with me.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:55 AM   #77
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There's nothing wrong with Dirk, don't get me wrong. My mistake. That particular free throw was the difference between going into OT and a loss. Sounds like almost the epitome of clutch. On the other hand, Melo hit everything he threw up (so did Aflalo, but whatever). It was just one game, I know, but Denver seems to have an edge on Dallas for some reason. Which is funny to me because it seems like the top teams are handled pretty well most of the time this season.

That was just the most recent thing I remembered and it shocked me. I haven't seen much clutch play from him in recent games is all. I love him, he holds the team together, he makes everyone around him better, but you guys must know that the Mavs tend to let leads slip away really easily. I think Melo would be a good addition to any team, but losing Roddy B doesn't sounds good to me. Honestly, wouldn't want to lose anyone the way they are playing.

But, yeah, Dirk rarely misses a FT, which is why it stuck with me.
I don't know why Melo's clutchness is even being seen as a big deal. If we acquired him, yes, it'd be nice to have a player down the stretch who can create a shot and hit it down even with the pressure on him. But must we have such a player? Not at all.

Sure, we had that one game where Dirk missed a free throw and it lost us the game (assuming we would have won in OT, which isn't a given). But overall, this team is very, very good at closing out close games. The veterans aren't afraid of the pressure, they know what to do. I don't know our record off hand, but games decided by like 5 points or less we have a very high winning percentage, because this team is typically very clutch and simply finds ways to win late in games.

So Melo's clutchness isn't a bad thing, but its not a necessary thing. If we acquire him with one of the primary reasons being his late game ability, that's stupidity. It shouldn't even be a factor on this team. Obviously, if you want him for his scoring, that's an entirely different issue, but focusing too much on a strength of his that this team is already very strong is pointless.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:38 AM   #78
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All I know is that you pull the trigger if you can land Melo to play next to Dirk, Chandler, and Kidd. You just do. Cuban could get him to sign with the talent we have on this roster.

Sure, you do EVERYTHING you can not to ship Roddy in that package but, come on, this dude is an absolute star player and Roddy, at best, is a future star. Or he turns out to be a 15ppg guy. Or worse - injury prone and inconsistent. You know what you have with one and no matter how much you love Roddy's POTENTIAL (and trust me, I love it), you don't absolutely know what you have with him.

If the deal has to include Roddy - you pull the trigger.

Now, as far as other trades that might not have to include Roddy and instead would be more financial relief for the other team? Well, I know of a 27 year old guy from Philly I would absolutely love to pair with Dirk, but of course you already knew that.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:51 AM   #79
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What I like right now is the fact that this team has turned the corner and so you will have a way stronger position in any negotiation. Multiple analysts out of the sudden believing this team doesn't necessarily need any trade. The same guys which strongly recommended a trade before the season WITH Butler in the lineup.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:05 AM   #80
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Well, I know of a 27 year old guy from Philly I would absolutely love to pair with Dirk, but of course you already knew that.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4nc7hn2
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