The NO major trade camp - I'm in.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

All I know is that you pull the trigger if you can land Melo to play next to Dirk, Chandler, and Kidd. You just do. Cuban could get him to sign with the talent we have on this roster.

Sure, you do EVERYTHING you can not to ship Roddy in that package but, come on, this dude is an absolute star player and Roddy, at best, is a future star. Or he turns out to be a 15ppg guy. Or worse - injury prone and inconsistent. You know what you have with one and no matter how much you love Roddy's POTENTIAL (and trust me, I love it), you don't absolutely know what you have with him.

If the deal has to include Roddy - you pull the trigger.

Now, as far as other trades that might not have to include Roddy and instead would be more financial relief for the other team? Well, I know of a 27 year old guy from Philly I would absolutely love to pair with Dirk, but of course you already knew that.

Are you talking about with or without an extension?

Because I keep reading people say you HAVE to make a deal for Melo, no matter what, but nobody has been clear as to whether they'd give up Roddy for a 3-month rental...

If you don't win now, you won't win later... Do you really wanna give up Roddy if Melo's gonna walk after this season? There's no guarantee that we'll win a ring if we get Melo, but we're absolutely guaranteed to be fracked if we lose both Roddy and Melo...

[Luc]

I think we overrate Roddy when it comes to making a trade. He's a good prospect, that's all for now.

[dude1394]

Giving up much of value for a melo rental is insane. Cubes is probably throwing it out there to stir the pot and get someone nibbling around. Nothing more than that.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

All I know is that you pull the trigger if you can land Melo to play next to Dirk, Chandler, and Kidd. You just do. Cuban could get him to sign with the talent we have on this roster.

Sure, you do EVERYTHING you can not to ship Roddy in that package but, come on, this dude is an absolute star player and Roddy, at best, is a future star. Or he turns out to be a 15ppg guy. Or worse - injury prone and inconsistent. You know what you have with one and no matter how much you love Roddy's POTENTIAL (and trust me, I love it), you don't absolutely know what you have with him.

If the deal has to include Roddy - you pull the trigger.

Now, as far as other trades that might not have to include Roddy and instead would be more financial relief for the other team? Well, I know of a 27 year old guy from Philly I would absolutely love to pair with Dirk, but of course you already knew that.

No, you don't pull the trigger. Unless he signs an extension.

[Murphy3]

Luc, for now, you're right. He is unrealized potential to this point... We'll have to wait and see what he turns in to. Obviously, some of us have higher hopes for what he'll be than others. But yeah, some of us probably do overrate him a bit. But, the Mavs just haven't had such animals at that position in awhile. When was the last time the Mavs had a 2 guard that could get to the rim like Roddy Beaubois?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Luc, for now, you're right. He is unrealized potential to this point... We'll have to wait and see what he turns in to. Obviously, some of us have higher hopes for what he'll be than others. But yeah, some of us probably do overrate him a bit. But, the Mavs just haven't had such animals at that position in awhile. When was the last time the Mavs had a 2 guard that could get to the rim like Roddy Beaubois?

JJB... or do you mean finish at the rim? Even then kinda JJB.

[Murphy3]

....yes, kinda JJB.. but, I'm not talking about just kinda.. Beaubois could be special in his ability to get to the rim and finish from the 2 guard spot.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

....yes, kinda JJB.. but, I'm not talking about just kinda.. Beaubois could be special in his ability to get to the rim and finish from the 2 guard spot.

no doubt. And those fricken long ass arms allow him to keep the ball away from the defenders reach on the dribble when he is splitting defenders or going up to the rim to finish.

Side note.. I am confident that if JJB were in Rods frame, he would be the same exciting player with the same abilities.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Are you talking about with or without an extension?

Because I keep reading people say you HAVE to make a deal for Melo, no matter what, but nobody has been clear as to whether they'd give up Roddy for a 3-month rental...

If you don't win now, you won't win later... Do you really wanna give up Roddy if Melo's gonna walk after this season? There's no guarantee that we'll win a ring if we get Melo, but we're absolutely guaranteed to be fracked if we lose both Roddy and Melo...

Well, obviously I put in the "Cuban could get him to sign with the talent we have on this roster" sentence so I am arguing that it wouldn't be a rental. If I KNEW it was going to be a rental (and I didn't even KNOW that with Lee) then you absolutely don't do it.

Now, if it is like Lee and he is genuinely open to staying given the right deal/circumstances (which I think Lee was), well, I say you take the gamble and hope you can convince him that Dirk, Kidd, Chandler, Terry, Marion, Peja, Haywood and Barea are WAY more than what NY/NJ could put around him.

Again, I am high on Roddy, but he is not proven and Dirk deserves a shot at a ring. I think Dirk is proving to people that, while certain parts of his game might regress (rebounding), his shooting and playmaking abilities will continue to be around at a very high level for the next 3-4 years.

Given that time frame and overall talent I don't think he passes that up just to be in his home state (just as LeBron/Bosh failed to sign with their home state teams - of course Bosh required a forced trade).

This is all likely fools gold as other teams can offer much more than we could or would be willing to. The thought though - wow... You can say what you will about this man but he is a true super star that gets super star treatment and would be tremendous next to Dirk.

Just imagine a closing lineup as follows:

Chandler
Dirk
Melo
Jet
Kidd

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

no doubt. And those fricken long ass arms allow him to keep the ball away from the defenders reach on the dribble when he is splitting defenders or going up to the rim to finish.

Side note.. I am confident that if JJB were in Rods frame, he would be the same exciting player with the same abilities.

And yeah, I know JJB plays some 2g, but I consider him a PG.

[JeffViggiano]

i don't want 'melo without the extension.

[G-Man]

A couple of weeks ago, I started a thread advocating a trade. I still believe this team needs another guy who can demand a double team. But lets take a long look at why we may be able to get by without one.

1. JJB has become more reliable. At least he has for the last 6 weeks. If you could guarentee me he does not revert, that he will consistantly make the right decision on when to shoot and when to pass, he makes our 2nd unit pretty good with the way he breaks down defenses. The fact that his play is giving Kidd increased mid season rest has to pay benefits in the post season.

2. Peja spreads the floor. I think his defense will be a major liability, and that scares me. But if his shot comes around, the fact that his defender has to stay home on him provides an impact similar to demanding a double team. With Roddy and JJB, there will always be a player on the floor who can drive and kick. Peja is an excellent passer, and as long as this team is willing to make the extra pass, there will always be someone open. I expect everyone else's 3 point percentage to increase.

3. Roddy's growth. After 2 games back, he looks like the player we had last year. great speed, can blow by anyone but is turnover prone. He must learn to take care of the ball against NBA quality defenses. The question is can he develop consistency between now and April? That's just a huge if. At least now it looks like RC will give him the minutes to try. No way I trade him for anything less than a bona-fide Robin. But without such a Robin, a 2nd round exit looms.

4. Team Play. When at their best, this Mavs players play with the awareness that if the defense is collaping on them, make the pass. I see this especially with Terry, who has rediscovered his skills at driving to the hole and either finishing or passing. I already mentioned JJB, but lets not forget Dirk...he's growing into an excellent passer. And now that we have 3 bigs who can catch and finish, those extra pases really pay off. Earlier in the season, we could say similar things about team defense, but without Tough Juice, and with Peja, this area needs a lot of work. If we get back to where we were, we're golden.

So I still want that guy who can demand the double team. But the last time we were this close we got within 6 quarters of a championship, so I'm ok with standing pat. We have the bigs to challenge LA, and Marion and DSteve to make Kobe work for whatever he gets. Our 3 point D has to improve to have a chance against teh Spurs, but thats doable. Without Butler, we don't match up so well against Miami, but that won't matter until June. If we get that far, he'll be back.

[LonghornDub]

1) For the record, I very much want Melo on this team. But I would not trade Roddy for him if I knew, for sure, that Melo wouldn't extend.

2) I'm on the fence about whether I'd trade Roddy for him without a surefire agreement that he'd extend or confirmation that he would not extend (i.e., could go either way), but I'd lean toward yes at the moment.

3) Obviously, with an agreement that he would extend, I'd trade Roddy for him in a heartbeat.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

1) For the record, I very much want Melo on this team. But I would not trade Roddy for him if I knew, for sure, that Melo wouldn't extend.

2) I'm on the fence about whether I'd trade Roddy for him without a surefire agreement that he'd extend or confirmation that he would not extend (i.e., could go either way), but I'd lean toward yes at the moment.

3) Obviously, with an agreement that he would extend, I'd trade Roddy for him in a heartbeat.

I know we've been debating the finer points in this thread, but I'm fairly certain this is the general consensus around here - anybody who wouldn't give up Roddy if Melo agreed to sign an extension with Dallas probably hates their own mother and wants the terrorists to win.

Of course, the likelihood of that happening is a completely different debate altogether...

[SMC0007]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cds7l...layer_embedded

/the end

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

no doubt. And those fricken long ass arms allow him to keep the ball away from the defenders reach on the dribble when he is splitting defenders or going up to the rim to finish.

Side note.. I am confident that if JJB were in Rods frame, he would be the same exciting player with the same abilities.

Roddy is a much better, and more natural shooter though... His form is more textbook, and just more effective. Also, even faster, and much more athletic, and explosive. Still buffles me how GM's missed this kid... And they took Johnny Flynn at 5.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Caron Butler for Tayshaun Prince still makes sense (from our end).

Butler isn't coming back this season (at least not enough to make an impact), I don't care what he says. Plus, both Prince and Butler are expirings, so we could always bring Caron back next season...


But I agree - there's no point in gutting the team for a guy like Melo, nor would I tamper with our chemistry over a Jax/Crash/Iggy type of player...

I like our team.

I hope that deal goes down because I still feel uneasy about Peja starting at SF in the playoffs.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

1) For the record, I very much want Melo on this team. But I would not trade Roddy for him if I knew, for sure, that Melo wouldn't extend.

2) I'm on the fence about whether I'd trade Roddy for him without a surefire agreement that he'd extend or confirmation that he would not extend (i.e., could go either way), but I'd lean toward yes at the moment.

3) Obviously, with an agreement that he would extend, I'd trade Roddy for him in a heartbeat.

I guess the thought game you have to play is this:

Would Melo + Roddyless Mavs this year be a better team than a matured Roddy plus whatever the Mavs happen to look like at that point (the majority of these years being after Kidd and Dirk's declines have significantly set in).

Once you've answered that, you have to ask if it's worth it to mire in mediocrity for a while in exchange for a really major chance to win it all this year.

Not an easy decision. Good thing it most likely won't ever have to be made.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I guess the thought game you have to play is this:

Would Melo + Roddyless Mavs this year be a better team than a matured Roddy plus whatever the Mavs happen to look like at that point (the majority of these years being after Kidd and Dirk's declines have significantly set in).

Once you've answered that, you have to ask if it's worth it to mire in mediocrity for a while in exchange for a really major chance to win it all this year.

Not an easy decision. Good thing it most likely won't ever have to be made.

easiest decision ever. Roddy will peak after Dirk's window is closed, and he'll never be as good as Dirk is now. If we keep him without adding anything, then in 5 years, we'll be in the same boat we're in now, wondering how in the world some teams are able to get multiple franchise players on the roster before any of them are in serious decline.

[wilmtalk]

Here is something you might all consider. Who is to say that Dirk and Carmelo can play efficiantly. They are both too simular. At least Roddy is a guard which is something that would complement a front line player. Players productivity runs in cycles. What if Carmelo and Dirk are on the same cycle. Meaning the are both hot at the same time and both cold at the same time. When they are hot they have to share the ball reducing each other productivity. When they are both cold than they would both be throwing up bricks. And don't even think that that doesn't happen with two superstars on the team.

Show me a team that had two similar superstars that were worth a sh*tt. I mean for all practical purposes Dirk plays a small forwards game. They are really not complementory players. You want your top players to occupy different parts of the floor. Roddy is a far more complementory for Dirk. Roddy and Carmelo are also far more complementory to each other than Dirk and Carmelo. The only advantage would be the double team thing but they would still double anyway using a zone. And another really inportant thing Carmelo's ego would not let him think he is playing Robin. He would want to be Batman. Dirk plays better when he has the ball and the team relys on him. I don't think they would play well together. Players stats do not always translate to a new team. I think most of you believe all his numbers would come over intact without effecting Dirks numbers. Neither would be the same. So I guess I am a terrorist and hate my mother.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Man you guys are myopic. We absolutely need a trade if want a ring. If you're happy with making it to the 2nd round, and a micro chance of the WCF, sure, no trade.

Yeah guys like JJB, Jet, Marion, etc. look great scoring in the regular season against teams like the Kings. The playoffs is a whole different story. Even with Roddy, this team needs a reliable #2 option when things get tight and Dirk is doubled. We've seen how Jet, Kidd, Marion and co. handle that kind of defensive pressure in the playoffs. And the results have not been favorable.

Agreed. The Mavs have a good record but I still see the same weaknesses I saw in this team last season that I see in this one. Our personnel is still basically the same. We still don't have that scorer we can depend on outside of Dirk and it scares the hell out of me that we need 20 from Barea in order to beat some of these teams. Jason Terry has shown absolutely nothing to lead us to believe he will show up this year in the playoffs.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Here is something you might all consider. Who is to say that Dirk and Carmelo can play efficiantly. They are both too simular. At least Roddy is a guard which is something that would complement a front line player. Players productivity runs in cycles. What if Carmelo and Dirk are on the same cycle. Meaning the are both hot at the same time and both cold at the same time. When they are hot they have to share the ball reducing each other productivity. When they are both cold than they would both be throwing up bricks. And don't even think that that doesn't happen with two superstars on the team.

Show me a team that had two similar superstars that were worth a sh*tt. I mean for all practical purposes Dirk plays a small forwards game. They are really not complementory players. You want your top players to occupy different parts of the floor. Roddy is a far more complementory for Dirk. Roddy and Carmelo are also far more complementory to each other than Dirk and Carmelo. The only advantage would be the double team thing but they would still double anyway using a zone. And another really inportant thing Carmelo's ego would not let him think he is playing Robin. He would want to be Batman. Dirk plays better when he has the ball and the team relys on him. I don't think they would play well together. Players stats do not always translate to a new team. I think most of you believe all his numbers would come over intact without effecting Dirks numbers. Neither would be the same. So I guess I am a terrorist and hate my mother.

Dirk and Melo are similar? In what galaxy? Only thing they have in common is that both are superstars.

[Male30Dan]

Thiggy - my apologies for copying your post from the Stephen A Smith thread and my reply, but this all translates here too and there will likely be way more visits to this thread so I want this point mentioned here as well... See the chain below all:

Originally Posted by jthig32

A contender for what? The playoffs? Maybe.

He's overrated because, while it's getting better, many fans still see raw scoring output and equate it to greatness, without considering what players have to do in order to accomplish their numbers. It's what lead people to fantastically overrate Allen Iverson and Gilbert Arenas, amongst others.

Carmelo is certainly not the chucker that those two players were, but he is very near the bottom of efficiency for the elite NBA scorers.

He's a great player but I don't think he's good enough to be the best player on a championship team, and I think most NBA fans would disagree, which is why I saw he's overrated.

Oh, and if he goes to New York, he will combine forces with another overrated NBA star (for different reasons) to play with the most overrated coach, and become a juggernaut of overratedness(probably not a real word).

Thiggy... I think the overrated piece you are hitting Amare with has been fairly proven wrong (i.e. he was only good because of Nash). Dude has been pretty stellar this year. His shooting percentage is down, sure, but he is still shooting over 50%. His scoring, assists, blocks, and steals are also up.

As far as Carmello being overrated due to him not being able to be the best player on a championship team, well, isn't that subjective for a lot of the past championship winners? What I mean is, aside from maybe the Heat team that beat us and the Lakers recently where there is just a TON of overall talent but really only one true superstar, haven't all championship teams pretty much had two or three guys that are considered fairly equal in overall talent?

KG/Allen/Pierce
Duncan/Parker/Manu
Shaq/Kobe
Billups/Hamilton/Prince/Wallace

In my opinion, you can really only win a championship if you have an absolute freakishly awesome stud player (Kobe with a lot of help, Jordan with another top-50 player in Pippen, Wade + refs, etc) or with a number of them. Sorry, but an older Billups, oft-injured Nene, Terry-like streak shooter Smith, etc is not a cast like these past championship teams have had - yet he has still made them very good. It is really the KG factor.

NOW - if you put Carmelo on a team with Dirk, a guy that many would call an equal to him, you have started to build something special like these other teams have accomplished. Keep enough talent around them and you have an absolute tremendous chance at winning a championship.

[j0Shi]

I just checked PER-rankings for this season cause I wanted to see how Dirks doing and realized that Melo doesn't even crack Top20. Adding that PER overrates scorers (19.4 FGA - 6th in NBA) isn't it a bit dissapointing?

[JeffViggiano]

i think that with this roster we are a second turn team.no more.

for really win a championship we need melo or another superstar.
i love roddy but i don't think that he is ready for carry us to the finals

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

easiest decision ever. Roddy will peak after Dirk's window is closed, and he'll never be as good as Dirk is now. If we keep him without adding anything, then in 5 years, we'll be in the same boat we're in now, wondering how in the world some teams are able to get multiple franchise players on the roster before any of them are in serious decline.

How can you say Roddy will never be as good as Dirk is now? I mean how can you compare that? They are two completely different players in almost every aspect of the game. You don't know what Rod will become. No one will ever replace Dirk around here but come on, we just don't yet know what Rod will or won't be to this team and franchise tomorrow, for this years playoffs or down the road. I disagree completely with a trade for a rental who has zero interest in being here longterm or even the next 2 years.

What does 5 years have to do with this? You think Dirk has another 5 years of peak ball left? I imagine that as long as Dirk is here he will most likely be considered the "franchise player" regardless who else walks thru the door, but he doesn't have 5 years left at the level he has been on. I think most people know that having multiple franchise players on the roster is a really, really tough thing to do but you think Melo is even remotely interested in being a franchise player for Dallas? No one should.

There will be life here in Dallas A.D.! It will be up to Cuban and you have to believe that he will do everything he possibly can to keep this thing afloat...at all reasonable cost.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

How can you say Roddy will never be as good as Dirk is now? I mean how can you compare that? They are two completely different players in almost every aspect of the game. You don't know what Rod will become. No one will ever replace Dirk around here but come on, we just don't yet know what Rod will or won't be to this team and franchise tomorrow, for this years playoffs or down the road. I disagree completely with a trade for a rental who has zero interest in being here longterm or even the next 2 years.

What does 5 years have to do with this? You think Dirk has another 5 years of peak ball left? I imagine that as long as Dirk is here he will most likely be considered the "franchise player" regardless who else walks thru the door, but he doesn't have 5 years left at the level he has been on. I think most people know that having multiple franchise players on the roster is a really, really tough thing to do but you think Melo is even remotely interested in being a franchise player for Dallas? No one should.

There will be life here in Dallas A.D.! It will be up to Cuban and you have to believe that he will do everything he possibly can to keep this thing afloat...at all reasonable cost.

were you throwing cats while you screamed that in half - English gobblygook?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

were you throwing cats while you screamed that in half - English gobblygook?

Sounds good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGkxcY7YFU

[BGMaverick9]

Do the Dallas Mavericks need to participate in the game, Let's Make a Deal? The Mavericks have been to Rumorville and back. The Mavericks of 2009-2010 lost their mojo and never recovered before the break, which led to their major deal with Washington to bring in Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and DeShawn Stevenson. Six weeks ago, Dallas looked like a team that was, once again, stuck in quicksand and looked destined to fall behind in the pack. The difference was that injuries led to the team's dramatic struggle. The Mavericks found their mojo and have returned back in the pack of elite teams that could legitimately be a title contender.

"This is a great feeling,'' Terry said when asked to describe this season's squad compared to last season's team. "Last year, going into this time, I think we had a trade on the horizon, so we were kind of in flux and we didn't know what to expect. This year, our team is intact. We don't foresee any moves - that I can see. It would surprise the heck out of me.''

So the question then becomes, do the Mavericks need to make a trade? Thursday marks the trade deadline and most of the leg work in creating trades is done over All-Star Weekend. Most or all of the owners and general managers are in town so work can get done.

Mark Cuban has never been confused for an owner that will sit on his hands, the man is always looking for the next deal. Surprising many, Cuban has given the impression that the trade deadline could come and go with the Mavericks standing pat. "I'm going to be opportunistic, and if somebody comes along and makes an offer we can't refuse, I'm going to grab it," Cuban said. "But there's not as much a sense of urgency to do something as there was last year. It's different circumstances obviously. We've really had a lot of people step up this year. We really didn't have that last year."

One of the bigger pieces, if not the biggest piece, that could be moved in a deal for the Mavericks would be Caron Butler. His expiring contract, at nearly $10.6 million, could fetch a talented player or two in return. The "problem" is that Butler appears to be headed towards a quicker than expected recovery from his knee surgery in early January. Early last week, Butler was seeing walking around while showing no signs of a limp, rode a stationary bike and began running on an underwater treadmill. "This is what they call phase two in getting to phase six,'' Butler said. "Able to ride the back, first day running (underwater). Eight weeks in, I start doing some strengthening stuff. And from that point on, it's how much (pain) can you take. You throw everything at it if we're not having any complications and continue to move forward.''

Butler continues to believe that he can return to the team in time for the playoffs. "Let's see what happens," he said. "I'm feeling good, though, mentally and physically. (Tuesday) was my first day running in the pool and I felt great. I plan on playing in this year's playoffs.'' There is upside to keeping Butler past the deadline. There is a chance that he could put them over the top in the playoffs. He could also be retained in the off-season at a reduced rate. You can see Jameer Nelson during the 2008-2009 season to observe the potential downside of bringing a player back in the midst of the playoffs.

you can read the rest at http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2011/2/...from-mavericks

[dude1394]

The odds are that roddy will not be a superstar...they just are. IMO he lacks the physique to be counted on like a superstar needs to be counted on. As with everything roddy it's "hope I'm wrong"...get tired of typing that to be honest...

But it would be difficult for myself to put all or even most of my eggs in a roddy basket....way too many variables there and too much of a flyer. If I can get an established superstar for him I do it for sure, I wouldn't do a rent-a-melo for roddy but neither will cubes. He would do a caron+ for a rent-a-melo but I would expect that is about it.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

And who is the other available star outside of melo? At this point I really don't see roddy traded for anyone besides an extended melo.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I guess the thought game you have to play is this:

Would Melo + Roddyless Mavs this year be a better team than a matured Roddy plus whatever the Mavs happen to look like at that point (the majority of these years being after Kidd and Dirk's declines have significantly set in).

Once you've answered that, you have to ask if it's worth it to mire in mediocrity for a while in exchange for a really major chance to win it all this year.

Not an easy decision. Good thing it most likely won't ever have to be made.

But you're also assuming Melo wouldn't stay. My #2 where I was unsure is a scenario in which he might or might not stay, but we just don't know.

If I know for sure he wouldn't stay, I wouldn't trade Roddy for him.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Thiggy - my apologies for copying your post from the Stephen A Smith thread and my reply, but this all translates here too and there will likely be way more visits to this thread so I want this point mentioned here as well... See the chain below all:



Thiggy... I think the overrated piece you are hitting Amare with has been fairly proven wrong (i.e. he was only good because of Nash). Dude has been pretty stellar this year. His shooting percentage is down, sure, but he is still shooting over 50%. His scoring, assists, blocks, and steals are also up.

As far as Carmello being overrated due to him not being able to be the best player on a championship team, well, isn't that subjective for a lot of the past championship winners? What I mean is, aside from maybe the Heat team that beat us and the Lakers recently where there is just a TON of overall talent but really only one true superstar, haven't all championship teams pretty much had two or three guys that are considered fairly equal in overall talent?

KG/Allen/Pierce
Duncan/Parker/Manu
Shaq/Kobe
Billups/Hamilton/Prince/Wallace

In my opinion, you can really only win a championship if you have an absolute freakishly awesome stud player (Kobe with a lot of help, Jordan with another top-50 player in Pippen, Wade + refs, etc) or with a number of them. Sorry, but an older Billups, oft-injured Nene, Terry-like streak shooter Smith, etc is not a cast like these past championship teams have had - yet he has still made them very good. It is really the KG factor.

NOW - if you put Carmelo on a team with Dirk, a guy that many would call an equal to him, you have started to build something special like these other teams have accomplished. Keep enough talent around them and you have an absolute tremendous chance at winning a championship.

No one calls Carmelo equal to him. No one. Dirk is an MVP. He is a 10 time all-nba player. Three time 1st team all-nba.

Melo has never made 1st team all-nba. He's made 3rd team 3 times and 2nd once.

You really have no clue where guys stand in the NBA hiearchy.

[DTown All Day]

Originally Posted by JamesVE

I completely agree. I want no part of Melo (or any other major trade at that)

me too but all they keep saying is nj and ny

[Usually Lurkin]

I'm in. A New Orleans major trade is exactly what we need to be contenders. Outside of gaining another superstar like Paul, we're just hoping that sweet fortune is kinder to us than to the better teams.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by CadBane

No one calls Carmelo equal to him. No one. Dirk is an MVP. He is a 10 time all-nba player. Three time 1st team all-nba.

Melo has never made 1st team all-nba. He's made 3rd team 3 times and 2nd once.

You really have no clue where guys stand in the NBA hiearchy.

actually a lot of people call carmelo equal/better than him. obviously they're all wrong... but they do it. case in point, melo started in the ASG over dirk.

[ThisCharmingFan]

Originally Posted by xrobx

actually a lot of people call carmelo equal/better than him. obviously they're all wrong... but they do it. case in point, melo started in the ASG over dirk.

I see their play as similar. Dunno how to explain it, but both have an accurate shot from mid to long range, even when it's contested. Melo's defense hasn't improved imo, while Dirk's seems better. Could be just the Chandler factor, though. Carmelo is just younger and he's far from decline. You notice that he is the star because he out plays his team. A lot of times Dirk isn't the star of the Mavericks show.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by CadBane

No one calls Carmelo equal to him. No one. Dirk is an MVP. He is a 10 time all-nba player. Three time 1st team all-nba.

Melo has never made 1st team all-nba. He's made 3rd team 3 times and 2nd once.

You really have no clue where guys stand in the NBA hiearchy.

Actually they do tool. I don't. But many do.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by xrobx

actually a lot of people call carmelo equal/better than him. obviously they're all wrong... but they do it. case in point, melo started in the ASG over dirk.

Who are "these people". If you mean Jo Schmo off the street, perhaps. I'm talking about actual coaches, players, GMs, basketball analysts, etc.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by ThisCharmingFan

I see their play as similar. Dunno how to explain it, but both have an accurate shot from mid to long range, even when it's contested. Melo's defense hasn't improved imo, while Dirk's seems better. Could be just the Chandler factor, though. Carmelo is just younger and he's far from decline. You notice that he is the star because he out plays his team. A lot of times Dirk isn't the star of the Mavericks show.

No.

Melo shoots an eFG% of 41% on jumpers.
Dirk has an eFG% of 56% on jumpers.

Both do not have an accurate jump shot. Melo does spend a lot of time in the mid-post, but he is far from a great jump shooter. And Dirk has been a good defender for a while now, Chandler or not.

Not sure what you mean by being the "star" of the team. Melo has a +5 net +/-. Dirk has a +22.