Dirk with high praise for Durant - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Nowitzness81 · 06-13-2012, 08:10 AM

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...ad_Of_My_Curve

Dirk Nowitzki has paid close attention to Kevin Durant’s playoff run.

Quote:

"KD," Nowitzki said, "is way ahead of my curve. He's arguably the best player in the league right now. I see a guy that really has no holes.

"He's a 6-10 guy with a 7-4 wingspan who can shoot it from the parking lot. He's posting up now. In transition he's so long that, when he gets a pass from the 3-point line, it's a layup or dunk with one step. He's got the one- or two-dribble pull-up, which you need to be a great scorer, because you can't just shoot 3s or go to the basket if you want to be a great scorer, 'cause sometimes you can't get all the way to the bucket. He can go both ways, one or two dribbles and up.

"He's way more of a 3-man than I ever was. He handles the ball way better on the break than I ever did. He's got deeper range. And he's doing all this at 23. He's won the scoring title three times in a row, so that he means he won the first one at 21. I barely got through my rookie year. When I was 21, Gary Trent was still killing me in practice."

spreedom · 06-13-2012, 08:52 AM

Dirk is the man. Truly a humble superstar.

saclare · 06-13-2012, 08:56 AM

Dirk is awesome...

Durant is already better than LeBron, and the best in the NBA. And KD still has room to get even better. It's scary to think about...

LonghornDub · 06-13-2012, 09:22 AM

Hopefully the "KD is overrated" talk that's trickled through d-m for several years will finally cease now.

aexchange · 06-13-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Dirk is awesome...

Durant is already better than LeBron, and the best in the NBA. And KD still has room to get even better. It's scary to think about...

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. KD is more clutch of the two, but Lebron is the much better overall player. His passing and defense are routinely overlooked.

I like Durant more, but I don't think there is much of a question in my mind on who the better player is --- Lebron.

markus1234 · 06-13-2012, 09:54 AM

Durant's supporting cast is ridiculous. And that's exactly what separates young KD from young DN.

Dirk could have had multiple rings already with guys like Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

CanadianMavsFan · 06-13-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Durant's supporting cast is ridiculous.

Dirk could have had multiple rings already with guys like Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

This is a very good point. People are quick to crown Durant, and he is a phenomenal player, but saying he is the best in the league is a little bit ridiculous. Top 5? Certainly. But the Thunder are probably the most stacked squad in the league right now.

Once Ibaka and Harden are forced to leave because OKC can't pay them, it will be interesting to see how well they do.

SMC0007 · 06-13-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. KD is more clutch of the two, but Lebron is the much better overall player. His passing and defense are routinely overlooked.

I like Durant more, but I don't think there is much of a question in my mind on who the better player is --- Lebron.

Disagree, especially with the "MUCH" part.

dude1394 · 06-13-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. KD is more clutch of the two, but Lebron is the much better overall player. His passing and defense are routinely overlooked.

I like Durant more, but I don't think there is much of a question in my mind on who the better player is --- Lebron.

Durant is a cold blooded killer. Lebron is a shrinking violet.

Give me durant for the personality, loyalty, lack of ego and a head that isn't 5 sizes too big.

aexchange · 06-13-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianMavsFan

This is a very good point. People are quick to crown Durant, and he is a phenomenal player, but saying he is the best in the league is a little bit ridiculous. Top 5? Certainly. But the Thunder are probably the most stacked squad in the league right now.

Once Ibaka and Harden are forced to leave because OKC can't pay them, it will be interesting to see how well they do.

Don't know if they will necessarily be forced to leave. OKC based on the HoopsHype site seems to be in decent salary cap shape with about $40M committed to about 7 players not including Harden and Ibaka for 2013/2014. If they sign Harden and Ibaka to $24M/yr in combined salaries between the two it takes them to $64M which is above the cap but below the luxury tax. You could then attempt to fill out the roster with minimum salary players after that.

As reference Harden's max is about $13M/yr, which means you'd be asking Ibaka to take a contract starting at around $11M/yr which I think is reasonable given his productivity.

aexchange · 06-13-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Durant is a cold blooded killer. Lebron is a shrinking violet.

Give me durant for the personality, loyalty, lack of ego and a head that isn't 5 sizes too big.

Agreed, I like Durant much more than Lebron and would take him over Queen James, but if its about who is the better overall player, its Lebron right now.

saclare · 06-13-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. KD is more clutch of the two, but Lebron is the much better overall player. His passing and defense are routinely overlooked.

I like Durant more, but I don't think there is much of a question in my mind on who the better player is --- Lebron.

The defense I will give you. LeBron is much more developed in that aspect. He's an All-NBA defender. KD possesses the length and athleticism but still has some work to do defensively.

I still have to give offense to KD. The range, shooting, drive, quickness. It just seems like it comes much easier to KD than LeBron. That fast break layup over Battier, where his length just simply created the easy layup... They showed that replay and all I could saw was wow.

Honestly, it's a toss up. I don't hate LeBron, I think he is a top all-time player. I just think that he is maxed right now, while KD is still getting better and, in my opinion, is already better.

saclare · 06-13-2012, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianMavsFan

This is a very good point. People are quick to crown Durant, and he is a phenomenal player, but saying he is the best in the league is a little bit ridiculous. Top 5? Certainly. But the Thunder are probably the most stacked squad in the league right now.

Once Ibaka and Harden are forced to leave because OKC can't pay them, it will be interesting to see how well they do.

How is supporting cast a deciding factor? Wade, Bosh, Haslem, Chalmers, Battier, and Miller aren't a good supporting cast? Dirk would love to have that around him. LeBron's argument his whole career has been no supporting cast, and I agree, but only while he was in Cleveland. But he has it now, and was beat last year, and will be beat again this year, by Durant and the Thunder.

KillerLeft · 06-13-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Durant's supporting cast is ridiculous. And that's exactly what separates young KD from young DN.

Dirk could have had multiple rings already with guys like Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

He DID. Nash and Finley were pretty good, Markus.

Besides, Dirk is obviously not threatened by the comparison - why are you?

LonghornDub · 06-13-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Durant's supporting cast is ridiculous. And that's exactly what separates young KD from young DN.

Dirk could have had multiple rings already with guys like Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

Durant was easily better at 21 than Dirk was at 21, supporting cast aside. Dirk himself said it, and he's obviously right. It wasn't even very close. It's especially impressive considering Dirk had a better coach at the time.

Underdog · 06-13-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

“He approaches his game as all about business, all about trying to win, all about playing well. That’s what I try to do. I’m not worried about what the people in the stands think about my game. I just want to play well for my team and for myself and just try to get better. That’s what type of player Dirk is. He’s never the type of guy that’s flashy with it. He just goes out there and plays, gets it done. That’s the type of player I try to be.” -- Kevin Durant (5/19/11)

What goes around comes around...

markus1234 · 06-13-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

He DID. Nash and Finley were pretty good, Markus.

But not that good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Besides, Dirk is obviously not threatened by the comparison - why are you?

I do not feel "threatened". I simply think that people misinterpret Dirk.

Dirk is saying that a 23yo KD has a better (team/individual) career than a 23yo Dirk. And he is of course stating the obvious....just like here

Quote:

“He’s way more athletic than I ever was,” Nowitzki said of Bargnani, his fellow 7-footer. “He’s shooting way quicker, he’s got a quick first step. He’s a tough matchup because he’s so quick now off the dribble and he’s shooting the ball really well this year.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2010011728

But it does not necessarily mean that KD is "simply better, no matter what" than Dirk. It is much more complicated than that...

Murphy3 · 06-13-2012, 11:35 AM

At 24, Dirk was had one of the best years of his career.. and then Nellie screwed the team to hell the next year.

What'll be interesting to see with Durant is if he's able to continually improve his game with age.. even into his 30's. That's one of the things that truly makes Dirk special is the length of his prime. One could argue that Dirk's pretty much been in his prime for 12 years.

And if you want to compare winshares, KD was at .230 whereas dirk was at .222. They're fairly close.

LonghornDub · 06-13-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

I do not feel "threatened". I simply think that people misinterpret Dirk.

Dirk is saying that a 23yo KD has a better (team/individual) career than a 23yo Dirk. And he is of course stating the obvious....just like here

I think you misinterpret, "Kevin had a scoring title at 21; when I was 21, Gary Trent was still killing me in practice."

That has nothing to do with career accolades. He is saying that KD is a better player at this point in his career (and at that point) than he was. It's quite unambiguous.

The great thing about Dirk is what Murph said above. He didn't peak early--he continued to improve, and his prime lasted (is lasting?) a very long time.

Dirkadirkastan · 06-13-2012, 11:37 AM

Durant has been playing more like a man ever since they stopped calling that cheap rip move.

Erod · 06-13-2012, 11:46 AM

Durant makes it impossible to hate OKC. And with Westbrook signed, and all these young guys wrapped up for a long time.......well, good luck with all that Western Conference.

Murphy3 · 06-13-2012, 11:55 AM

Ok, let's get some of the obvious things out of the way.

1. Dirk is being extremely humble. Dirk at 23 was 2nd team all NBA. He was no slouch.
2. Gary Trent didn't play for the Mavs when Dirk was 23. Dirk's getting old and his memory ain't what it used to be.
3. Dirk didn't walk into a situation where he had to be the guy right away. Finley was with the Mavs scoring over 20 a game. Durant walked onto the court playing with a group of guys with no one even close to a legit #1 option.. probably not even a legit #2 option.
4. KD was definitely further along at the younger ages, but by the time Dirk turned 23, the gap is definitely closing between the 2. KD has the edge without a doubt, but the gap in their career is closing compared to earlier ages.

Underdog · 06-13-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Ok, let's get some of the obvious things out of the way.

1. Dirk is being extremely humble. Dirk at 23 was 2nd team all NBA. He was no slouch.
2. Gary Trent didn't play for the Mavs when Dirk was 23. Dirk's getting old and his memory ain't what it used to be.
3. Dirk didn't walk into a situation where he had to be the guy right away. Finley was with the Mavs scoring over 20 a game. Durant walked onto the court playing with a group of guys with no one even close to a legit #1 option.. probably not even a legit #2 option.
4. KD was definitely further along at the younger ages, but by the time Dirk turned 23, the gap is definitely closing between the 2. KD has the edge without a doubt, but the gap in their career is closing compared to earlier ages.

Dirk was actually talking about when he was 21, not 23... Maybe he doesn't know how old KD is at this point?

Kidd Karma · 06-13-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Ok, let's get some of the obvious things out of the way.

1. Dirk is being extremely humble. Dirk at 23 was 2nd team all NBA. He was no slouch.
2. Gary Trent didn't play for the Mavs when Dirk was 23. Dirk's getting old and his memory ain't what it used to be.
3. Dirk didn't walk into a situation where he had to be the guy right away. Finley was with the Mavs scoring over 20 a game. Durant walked onto the court playing with a group of guys with no one even close to a legit #1 option.. probably not even a legit #2 option.
4. KD was definitely further along at the younger ages, but by the time Dirk turned 23, the gap is definitely closing between the 2. KD has the edge without a doubt, but the gap in their career is closing compared to earlier ages.

I think Dirk meant he was getting his ass kicked by Trent in practice when he was 21. Durant also had one year of college, while Dirk was learning the professional ropes, as well as the culture and language.

Budapest Maverick · 06-13-2012, 01:13 PM

I thought the article was pretty straightforward. Dirk mentions that KD was 21 when he won his first scoring title, and then he compares 21 year old Durant to his 21 year old self. KD was indeed better at 21, he scored 30 points per game, on .607%TS. That's crazy. Dirk was not that great at 21, he scored around 20 points, on 56%TS. It needs to mentioned though, that at 21 Dirk only started his second season in the NBA, whereas Durant started his 3rd.

So 21 years old Durant had more experience, and if you go by season, Dirk also cracked 60%TS in his third year. So yeah, Dirk is probably a little too humble here, he makes it look like he was some kind vastly inferior player, which is obviously not true. Also, KD was never shy of pulling the trigger... a lot. Dirk was always a little bit too smart with his shot selection.

Even in his biggest games (50 point games, 40+ point games) he rarely went over 30 shot attempts. He was never interested in making front pages like Kobe, or the likes of him, he was always only concerned about playing the game the right way. With a mentality like Kobe, Dirk would have been battling for the scoring title every year.

fluid.forty.one · 06-13-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk was actually talking about when he was 21, not 23... Maybe he doesn't know how old KD is at this point?

Nah he was talking about how Durant won his first scoring title at 21.

LonghornDub · 06-13-2012, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Nah he was talking about how Durant won his first scoring title at 21.

This.

He actually references both timeframes a bit, but the bit about Gary Trent was age 21, not 23.

In any event, I agree more or less with the substance of Murph's post above. Durant also had the advantage of playing major college basketball for a year--and owning everybody, I might add--and not having to adjust to an entirely different culture.

Murphy3 · 06-13-2012, 02:15 PM

Screw me.

That's what I get for mis-hearing/reading something or somesuch.

GhostFace · 06-13-2012, 06:14 PM

Quite interesting how much these two are alike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

What goes around comes around...

Where is this quote from? Do you happen to have a link to the article or some other source?

Underdog · 06-13-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostFace

Where is this quote from? Do you happen to have a link to the article or some other source?

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2011/0...urant-part-ii/

4Dirk1Nowitzki · 06-13-2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Durant's supporting cast is ridiculous. And that's exactly what separates young KD from young DN.

Dirk could have had multiple rings already with guys like Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka.

Very good point, the drop off talent from him to the next best player on his team through out his career is what has limited Dirk to only one ring in his career.

SlimMavsFan · 06-13-2012, 08:42 PM

Dirk is being ridiculously humble. Sure, Durant is probably ahead of Dirk at the same age, but they've been in totally different circumstances. I like how people say, "Durant is so good now at 23 what is he going to be like at 27-28?" Heck, LeBron averaged 27.2, 7.4, and 7.2 at age *twenty*. So for sure, he was going to be averaging 45, 15 and 15 by the time he hit his prime, right? The truth is KD is probably already at around 90% of his peak... he just achieved it pretty fast. And he still has quite a ways to go to reach MVP level 2005-2007 Dirk. At 7 feet tall (and clearly a few inches taller than KD despite people trying to call him a 7 footer) with the best midrange shot in the game, deep range, agility and coordination to shoot a lefty layup or to just slam it home... MVP Dirk was a monster and a bigger puzzle to solve on defense than Durant. Heck, *young* Shawn Marion couldn't do anything with Dirk. KD gets neutralized by the geriatric version of the Matrix frequently.

howdoesmydirktaste · 06-13-2012, 09:32 PM

Dirk actually had a great supporting cast last year. Tyson set great picks and played great defense. Jason Terry hit some of the most cold-blooded threes that I've ever seen in the playoffs. Hell, even Peja got in on the action against LA. JJ was also playing out of his mind. Marion played smothering defense. Kidd found his stroke at the right time from beyond the arch. Mahinmi hit that amazing shot to end the third quarter in game six in Miami. If you think about it, it took both Dirk playing out of his mind and an excellent supporting cast to complete our improbable playoff run last year. And don't forget to give credit to our coach.

4Dirk1Nowitzki · 06-13-2012, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlimMavsFan

Dirk is being ridiculously humble. Sure, Durant is probably ahead of Dirk at the same age, but they've been in totally different circumstances. I like how people say, "Durant is so good now at 23 what is he going to be like at 27-28?" Heck, LeBron averaged 27.2, 7.4, and 7.2 at age *twenty*. So for sure, he was going to be averaging 45, 15 and 15 by the time he hit his prime, right? The truth is KD is probably already at around 90% of his peak... he just achieved it pretty fast. And he still has quite a ways to go to reach MVP level 2005-2007 Dirk. At 7 feet tall (and clearly a few inches taller than KD despite people trying to call him a 7 footer) with the best midrange shot in the game, deep range, agility and coordination to shoot a lefty layup or to just slam it home... MVP Dirk was a monster and a bigger puzzle to solve on defense than Durant. Heck, *young* Shawn Marion couldn't do anything with Dirk. KD gets neutralized by the geriatric version of the Matrix frequently.

nice post

chumdawg · 06-13-2012, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlimMavsFan

Dirk is being ridiculously humble. Sure, Durant is probably ahead of Dirk at the same age, but they've been in totally different circumstances. I like how people say, "Durant is so good now at 23 what is he going to be like at 27-28?" Heck, LeBron averaged 27.2, 7.4, and 7.2 at age *twenty*. So for sure, he was going to be averaging 45, 15 and 15 by the time he hit his prime, right? The truth is KD is probably already at around 90% of his peak... he just achieved it pretty fast. And he still has quite a ways to go to reach MVP level 2005-2007 Dirk. At 7 feet tall (and clearly a few inches taller than KD despite people trying to call him a 7 footer) with the best midrange shot in the game, deep range, agility and coordination to shoot a lefty layup or to just slam it home... MVP Dirk was a monster and a bigger puzzle to solve on defense than Durant. Heck, *young* Shawn Marion couldn't do anything with Dirk. KD gets neutralized by the geriatric version of the Matrix frequently.

G'agree.

Speaking of...which former Longhorn great do you want stock in? VY or KD? Hell, I'd take Jordan Shipley over VY!

twelli · 06-14-2012, 04:17 AM

Dirk is now giving back all the respect he's been receiving all his career by most other NBA players, fans, and the media...

no, let me rephrase this...

Dirk is now giving forward all the respect he might receive in the future by more than a few NBA players, fans, and the media...

markus1234 · 06-14-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Dirk1Nowitzki

Very good point, the drop off talent from him to the next best player on his team through out his career is what has limited Dirk to only one ring in his career.

23yo Dirk 42-18 vs. Duncan.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dal...37#ssTop186078

Dirk has better career high numbers than Durant in all areas (points, assists, rebounds, 3p made and so on...). And better playoff numbers....against prime Duncan, Garnett and co.

What separates Durant from Dirk is the supporting cast and FT-A (refs' respect)...And yes, it makes him "look" better than young Dirk. No doubt about it.

Underdog · 06-14-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Dirk has better career high numbers than Durant in all areas (points, assists, rebounds, 3p made and so on...). And better playoff numbers....against prime Duncan, Garnett and co.

Dirk has been in the league for fourteen seasons versus Durant's five - I'm not sure if career numbers can really be a valid argument at this point...

markus1234 · 06-14-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk has been in the league for fourteen seasons versus Durant's five - I'm not sure if career numbers can really be a valid argument at this point...

Yes, that's right. But most of his career highs

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_n...eer_stats.html

are pretty old (early in his career)....

LonghornDub · 06-14-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

What separates Durant from Dirk is the supporting cast and FT-A (refs' respect)...And yes, it makes him "look" better than young Dirk. No doubt about it.

I wasn't really buying it until right at the end there. But hot damn, if there's "no doubt about it," what can I really do?

I'll tell you one thing--it certainly can't be the case that Dirk is correct, and the guy is just better than Dirk was at the same age. No way. Right? Right.